Forbidden planet SUPPORTS VALIANT, WITH PERSUASION FROM ME

[Carson]

That chart is missing any numbers on the X axis, making it questionable at best.

[Carson]

Also, google Valiant Free View... me and at least two other board members have given away dozens of Valiants trying to spread membership.

If some pessimistic shop owner *SQUEE* on a board member's parade, then let him come on here and vent with other fellow Valiant die-hards.

You can show yourself the door and take your half baked excel charts with you.

Viva la Valiant!

[ThomasC22]

That chart is missing any numbers on the X axis, making it questionable at best.

The X axis numbers are right above the chart. You can copy those numbers into Excel and make your own chart if you want.

Second, I'm a Valiant fan too and you people are the problem because you don't just vent here. You take this negative attitude into the comic shops and that's why comic owners root against Valiant. Because they can never make the Valiant fans happy.

When I was a kid I worked in a comic store and there was an imprint started by Neal Adams called Continuity Comics and everyone who worked at the shop hated Continuity comics because their fans always complained. Why didn't we position the CC issues more prominently? Why didn't we order more copies? Why didn't we do a marketing push for <insert new series>?

The owner of the shop actually took everyone out to a fancy dinner to celebrate when Continuity went out of business. That's how much we grew to hate it and that's the impact surly Valiant fans have now.

(The irony here is the Continuity fans always complained about us giving too much promotion to Valiant but we only did that because Valiant was getting mentioned every 5 pages in Wizard Magazine)

[Paul Nolan]

So the sales aren't leveling off. Each title is showing consistent declines. Harbinger lost 1,000 readers between issue 5 & 6 (way past #3). X-O lost nearly 2,000 between 6 & 7. Or look at the percentages. X-O is down 66% from its first issue, Harbinger down 58%, Bloodshot down 55% and A&A down 43%. Those aren't pretty.

Have you ever seen a graph of comic sales before? The only one that is any different is the Walking Dead.

are all Valiant comics going to last forever? No.
are Valiant gaining Market Share month on month? Yes.
are valiant consitently selling more comics than publishers of comparable size that have been around for years? Yes.
Do Valiant fans have only 6 months of comics left? absolutely not.

[MarkRoseHFX]

That would be like opening a restaurant and telling everyone the food sucks.

Not really. Because Comic stores sell a bunch of different comics and comic stores feel obligated to give shelf space to all the major publishers. So if Valiant comics aren't selling they are taking up shelf space from something that might. In that case it makes sense for comic shops to want the publisher to die.

Ummm NO Yes it is the same. The guy at the comic shop was talking to a VALIANT fan who was in the shop to buy VALIANT COMICS. The shop sells VALIANT COMICS that they want to make MONEY off of. So if they tell the customers "well they're gonna be gone anyway why buy them?" They are telling customers to NOT buy a product they SELL. My analogy was dead on you idiot.

Why on earth would they root for a publisher to die? Wouldn't they be happier if the books took off and sold a bunch so they could make money off of them? YOUR point makes NO SENSE Mr chip on his shoulder. Go pound sand.

[Carson]

That chart is missing any numbers on the X axis, making it questionable at best.

The X axis numbers are right above the chart. You can copy those numbers into Excel and make your own chart if you want.

Second, I'm a Valiant fan too and you people are the problem because you don't just vent here. You take this negative attitude into the comic shops and that's why comic owners root against Valiant. Because they can never make the Valiant fans happy.

When I was a kid I worked in a comic store and there was an imprint started by Neal Adams called Continuity Comics and everyone who worked at the shop hated Continuity comics because their fans always complained. Why didn't we position the CC issues more prominently? Why didn't we order more copies? Why didn't we do a marketing push for <insert new series>?

The owner of the shop actually took everyone out to a fancy dinner to celebrate when Continuity went out of business. That's how much we grew to hate it and that's the impact surly Valiant fans have now.

(The irony here is the Continuity fans always complained about us giving too much promotion to Valiant but we only did that because Valiant was getting mentioned every 5 pages in Wizard Magazine)

The two shops I frequent love me and support Valiant. The one shop asked me to moderate the Valiant panel at NC Comicon because they thought my Valiant Free View idea was awesome. The other just gave me the A&A 1:20 at cover price because I'm cool with them (positive and energetic, not surly and whiney). So, you couldn't be more wrong.

Also, your chart is complete rubbish. How can you have colored lines representing each title covering 7 data points when A&A has only published 5 issues, and Shadowman 2? Its nonsense.

If a bunch of Valiant fans want to console each other on the ValiantFans message board when a jerk shop owner talks junk about their beloved Valiant folding in six months, well then they've come to the right place.

If some other jerk wants to come on the ValiantFans board and provide some crappy excel chart showing said fans why in fact the shop owner was correct and their beloved brand is going to fold, well that jerk has probably come to the WRONG place.

I know that second sentence was convoluted, so let me simplify:
Your crappy excel charts are not wanted here.

You are in a place where people love Valiant. Try to be supportive or leave.

[MarkRoseHFX]

Second, I'm a Valiant fan too and you people are the problem because you don't just vent here. You take this negative attitude into the comic shops and that's why comic owners root against Valiant. Because they can never make the Valiant fans happy.

How the hell do YOU know what anyone on this board does in the shop?

The owner of the shop actually took everyone out to a fancy dinner to celebrate when Continuity went out of business. That's how much we grew to hate it and that's the impact surly Valiant fans have now.

Well then he's an idiot. If he didn't like them so much why did he bother to keep ordering them? Based on your attitude i'm sure many will grow to hate YOU.

[cavemold]

Given Valiant has movie in production I dont see them dying out in 6m. First time ive heard of forbbiden planet

[ShadowTuga]

First time I'm using the Ignore function on a forum user.
There are ways to present your POVs in a respectful manner and there is inducers like your very 1st post, where you attacked "us people" without having a clue of what a lot of us do to promote these books. Not that it matters to you, but my LCS is very happy with Valiant's perceived success at a critical level; the masses, will follow soon.
Welcome to the boards, I guess.

[hawkeyeps]

Given Valiant has movie in production I dont see them dying out in 6m. First time ive heard of forbbiden planet

I've heard of "forbiden planet" in that they are a huge rip off, the kings of mark up! If they think VALIANT is such *SQUEE* maybe you can get a bunch of books for a discount....yeah right

[cavemold]

Given Valiant has movie in production I dont see them dying out in 6m. First time ive heard of forbbiden planet

I've heard of "forbiden planet" in that they are a huge rip off, the kings of mark up! If they think VALIANT is such *SQUEE* maybe you can get a bunch of books for a discount....yeah right

Lulz...

[ThomasC22]

Have you ever seen a graph of comic sales before? The only one that is any different is the Walking Dead..

I honestly don't understand your point. I'm not being sarcastic, if you have a valid point I'd like to understand it. I just don't.

Ummm NO Yes it is the same. The guy at the comic shop was talking to a VALIANT fan who was in the shop to buy VALIANT COMICS. The shop sells VALIANT COMICS that they want to make MONEY off of. So if they tell the customers "well they're gonna be gone anyway why buy them?" They are telling customers to NOT buy a product they SELL. My analogy was dead on you idiot.

No, it wasn't. If you sell a strawberry sundae and there are only two loyal customers who buy it you'd want to dissuade them from doing so. Because you have to buy strawberry ice cream just for those two people. But you don't want to lose the customer because they buy other stuff. So you try to get them to try Vanilla. If you can get them to like Vanilla you can take strawberry off the menu and not have to stock it.

Also, your chart is complete rubbish. How can you have colored lines representing each title covering 7 data points when A&A has only published 5 issues, and Shadowman 2? Its nonsense.

The chart shows trending. But if you don't like it how about commenting on the numbers. The numbers are ALL going down. Also, as a guy who only has 376 posts I have to ask...do you own this forum? Because it's pretty rude to tell someone they aren't welcome if you don't.

Well then he's an idiot. If he didn't like them so much why did he bother to keep ordering them? Based on your attitude i'm sure many will grow to hate YOU.

Because if he didn't the Continuity fans would throw a fit and they buy other comics. He didn't want to lose them as customers, they were nice guys when they weren't talking about Continuity Comics. That is why his hatred transferred to the imprint. They were great customers all around once the imprint was dead.

As for hating me I don't want you to like me. I don't like you. I want you to realize we have a common interest and should work together. I'm trying to keep Valiant alive and you're tearing it apart.

Given Valiant has movie in production I dont see them dying out in 6m. First time ive heard of forbbiden planet

For the record there isn't a movie "in production" (at least as the term is usually used). Ratner has been "looking for a screenwriter" for nearly 5 years now. More to the point those rights were acquired before there was a comic so the comic doesn't have a lot of impact on it. There's an argument for building up a catalog of material to reprint when the movie comes out but the movie may never come out so most companies wouldn't take that chance.

[Carson]

No, I don't own the forum, but my three hundred and whatever posts have all been pro valiant, unlike your three *SQUEE* posts.

Move along to wherever you can be positive. There's no use in coming on here and stirring the pot with your crappy graphs.

Seriously, go somewhere that makes you happy. It's best for everyone.

[Carson]

No one on here is tearing valiant apart. You are ridiculous. We all want Valiant to survive and thrive in a very competitive, shrinking comic market.

Here's what I've done to promote Valiant:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=38461" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

How about you?

[Carson]

Here's another member that followed up with his own free view:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=38553" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Carson]

We call this "earned media" in the PR biz:
http://comicbook.com/blog/2012/11/27/va ... ee-comics/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[MarkRoseHFX]

No, it wasn't. If you sell a strawberry sundae and there are only two loyal customers who buy it you'd want to dissuade them from doing so. Because you have to buy strawberry ice cream just for those two people. But you don't want to lose the customer because they buy other stuff. So you try to get them to try Vanilla. If you can get them to like Vanilla you can take strawberry off the menu and not have to stock it.

My analogy is still right. Based on your theory you should only carry a book if it's a huge immediate seller. So shops should have just dropped The Walking Dead immediately because that didn't sell much. If ANY customers wants to buy stuff the shop should CARRY it and be GLAD to sell it because they make MONEY off of it. You still make no sense.

Because if he didn't the Continuity fans would throw a fit and they buy other comics. He didn't want to lose them as customers, they were nice guys when they weren't talking about Continuity Comics. That is why his hatred transferred to the imprint. They were great customers all around once the imprint was dead.

As for hating me I don't want you to like me. I don't like you. I want you to realize we have a common interest and should work together. I'm trying to keep Valiant alive and you're tearing it apart.

Don't you see how this point contradicted your first one?

you know what I don't know you so I really don't give a what you think of me. I judge you based on how much of an *SQUEE* you've been in this thread. Maybe you're having a bad night I don't know. I've done that myself we're all guilty of it sometimes. But you don't know a DAMN thing about me and how much i've done to support Valiant. I'm CONSTANTLY talking it up locally and pushing it out on my facebook, my twitter, my tumblr AND my Google +. And i've spent a lot of effort on all of those and i've built myself a decent following especially on twitter. Tearing Valiant apart? WRONG. I'm just one of many on here that are helping it rebuild. If you want to join and stop being an *SQUEE*. cool. if not then who cares about you and what you think?

I don't.

For the record there isn't a movie "in production" (at least as the term is usually used). Ratner has been "looking for a screenwriter" for nearly 5 years now. More to the point those rights were acquired before there was a comic so the comic doesn't have a lot of impact on it. There's an argument for building up a catalog of material to reprint when the movie comes out but the movie may never come out so most companies wouldn't take that chance.

Yeah of course not...not until something is announced for release. They have several in different stages like JMS is writing Shadowman. But being such a "Valiant fan" you'd know that right

[Carson]

Top it all off, I arranged $1000 in commissions for Cary at NC Comicon. That hooking up board members with some SICK commissions (full color) and taking care of Valiants only exclusive Eisner award winning artist.

http://www.valiantfans.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=38453" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So, what was it that you've done for Valiant?

[Paul Nolan]

Thomas, I'm sorry I can't quote you as I'm now on my phone. My point is this.

Map the first 10 issues of any comic from any company (bar the walking dead) and the graph will look exactly the same as the one you posted.

That's the way comics work.

Sent from my Lumia 800 using Board Express

[Phantom..]

Hey thomasc22.

Welcome to the boards .

I have to admit I was taken back by the comic owners thoughts, as I always 'big up' Valiant to him.
Valiant is the reason I returned to comic shops rather than collecting dead universes.

I understand your comment about ice cream - but don't agree. Getting any comic shipped is easy, and if just for standing orders so be it.

I feel that valiant has a great chance in the Market place. But only time will tell. Money doesn't last forever.

Keep posting. It's good to get a different perspective.

[cavemold]

also how could shadowman be declining if theres only be one issue sold out?

[ThomasC22]

Map the first 10 issues of any comic from any company (bar the walking dead) and the graph will look exactly the same as the one you posted.

I see your point now but i'm not sure I agree with it because you're equating all sales drops to each other when what's important is the magnitude of the drop. Both initially and over time. So, for example, what worries me about X-O isn't so much that it has dropped over 60% from issue #1 (though that is concerning). Its that it dropped nearly 2000 readers in the last month.

Also its concerning that the entire line is dropping. Every title dropped more than 986 readers last month (Harbinger is the 986).

I'll admit I don't have the statistics to refute your point completely so you may be right. But I don't think successful titles are still losing thousands of readers 6-months in.

I understand your comment about ice cream - but don't agree. Getting any comic shipped is easy, and if just for standing orders so be it.

I don't disagree with that. But I still see Valiant comics on my shop's shelves and everyone here seems to have the same experience. So if Valiant falls to just standing orders I don't think it can survive because that would be a significant drop for comics that have already fallen pretty far.

Yeah of course not...not until something is announced for release. They have several in different stages like JMS is writing Shadowman. But being such a "Valiant fan" you'd know that right

I don't know how else to explain the analogy to you so we'll have to agree to disagree. But I did want to address this.

I wouldn't expect anyone outside of Los Angeles to know this but the JMS script is actually a bad thing not a good thing. VEI has been shopping the Valiant Characters to studios because they want movie deals. So if VEI is having to hire a writer themselves that generally means they haven't had any luck so they're producing a script to show studios what a movie might look like. This is a technique used when the owner of the property thinks studios don't "get" the character.

also how could shadowman be declining if theres only be one issue sold out?

At this point I'm sorry I ever posted the chart. Can we just pay attention to the numbers?

[Paul Nolan]

Recent Marvel comics have been know to drop 60% between issue 1 and 2, let alone issue 1 and 6.

Sent from my Lumia 800 using Board Express

[drmirage]

This topic has been steaming since the first post. All I want to mention is that I am aware of what the #'s. The graph shows this very well. VEI's management team know what these #'s are.

They know that the comics business isn't a short term business and VEI knows this from the beginning. Comics are for long term.

Jason and Dinesh are fans. They took a big risk... look at what they have accomplished in just 7 months with the VEI team. No other relaunch - IP has done this in years. I already give these guys a lot of credit for doing much better than the Dark-Key re-launch.

With Valiant fanbase, I can't see this company dying within 6 months. No way!

VEI is here for the long haul. I do have to say that having 14k-16k copies sold is much better than 8K-10K copies sold. I'd like to revisit this thread 6 months from now and see if Valiant is done for in 6 months. (I think not).

[MarkRoseHFX]

I don't know how else to explain the analogy to you so we'll have to agree to disagree. But I did want to address this.

I wouldn't expect anyone outside of Los Angeles to know this but the JMS script is actually a bad thing not a good thing. VEI has been shopping the Valiant Characters to studios because they want movie deals. So if VEI is having to hire a writer themselves that generally means they haven't had any luck so they're producing a script to show studios what a movie might look like. This is a technique used when the owner of the property thinks studios don't "get" the character.

Ok so because you live in Los Angeles it makes you an expert on this?
You know what maybe none of these movies get made. Who the hell knows? but at least getting the interest up as far as they did they got people talking about it. and press from it. that can't hurt either way.

At this point I'm sorry I ever posted the chart. Can we just pay attention to the numbers?

You know what's NOT in those numbers. Other publishers numbers. There are publishers selling monthly titles that aren't hitting Valiant's numbers even with the drop. And they've been around for a while and will still be around. Also not in there, the ENTIRE MARKET is declining at the moment. They've also lately been competing with the Marvel Now stuff and a DC New 52 #0 month. Lot's of new #1's and stuff with inflated sales for the big 2. Another thing not in there, Digital Sales. Is there even such a beast that tells you those numbers? This board keeps increasing. Valiant's twitter keeps getting more and more followers. People are talking. Faith is being restored to the brand (literally too she came back not that long ago ) These guys know what they're doing. Sit back and enjoy the books if you do. Watch and see.