What is a fair price for Shadowman Black?

[arghh!]

I see everyone thinks the price will come down. What do you think it will settle in at? Is 100 just an outrageous price? I have a chance to pick one up and that is what they are asking.

[etos45]

For me personally, it isn't worth anywhere near $100. There's no way of knowing right now what the print run is, but I would think anything over $50 is too high and I don't think I'd pay more than $20.

[arghh!]

I think I would be ok with 50. I was kind of shocked when they said 100. I just need to fight off my completist err complentionist err whatever you call it tendencies.

[greg]

I've talked to retailers that don't have theirs yet. There will surely be more copies on Ebay when they're distributed.

[FormerReader]

My personal limit is $75 for the book. I don't know if that's what it's worth, but I believe that to be fair value (and that's being generous). There are 500 of them and our community is still small.

[Elveen]

I can tell you that I was talking to a retailer, one of the biggest on the west coast, and he told me that an employee stole the Valiant Black. He got it and then it was gone.

[VEI Reborn]

If anybody seriously thinks these are $50 books if the print run holds true, I will buy them all from you.

I am not sure why everyone keeps saying 500 printed. We know that is not true.


500 retailers got them and we know a few people at the Baltimore show got them. I bet there is at least 1000 printed. Even still, Im fine with buying them at $100

[etos45]

If anybody seriously thinks these are $50 books if the print run holds true, I will buy them all from you.

I don't think they are $50 books right now, I think they will be. If I had one, I would happily sell for the $90-100 people are paying. Every one of these books sell for some insane amount when they first come out and then the price settles down after a month or two. I just don't think this book is special enough to warrant anything over $50.

Also, while I know you didn't say the print run is 500, that seems to be the general assumption and it's wrong. 1000? Maybe. It could also be higher than that. With the way that Valiant hands out incentives, though, I always assume that the print run is much higher than the assumption.

Either way, this book (IMO) only has value from a completionist point of view and with the amount of variants out there that makes the idea of completing a set that much more unlikely for most collectors. While it's a cool little book, it's not something that I would pay a lot for and so far playing the long game on "valuable" Valiant books has paid off.

As always, my disclaimer that I could always be wrong in the future, but I just don't think comics will see 90s prices again and I think Valiant has a ways to go before demand for something like this will be high enough to drive up the price.

[arghh!]

I just keep thinking in terms of what could that 100 bucks buy me help finish off my original valiant collection. I could probably pick up one of the rare Acclaims I am missing. At this point I don't think they are going to come down in price that much where as this book might.

[greg]

Also, while I know you didn't say the print run is 500, that seems to be the general assumption and it's wrong. 1000? Maybe. It could also be higher than that. With the way that Valiant hands out incentives, though, I always assume that the print run is much higher than the assumption.

THIS.

[BloodShot]

If anybody seriously thinks these are $50 books if the print run holds true, I will buy them all from you.

Ditto.

All *SQUEE*' day long.

And if it's in at least NM+/M- condition (which does include the slip-sleeve), I'd gladly bump that to a hunnit.

Oh, and, ice cream.

[Cyberstrike]

Ice Cream

[drmirage]

What is a fair price for Shadowman Black? For now the median price is at $90... Unless the print runs are fully disclosed, it's very difficult to gauge the price. We can assume there will be more copies out there than 500.

Remember the X-O Manowar Gold's #1 were selling at $150 after SDCC. Right now, the most recent listing ended at $78.77 with 10 bids.

[etos45]

Bunch on ebay right now, all of them seem to be above $50 in bids or getting there.

I've been paying between 70-100, I'm not a reseller so it doesn't matter to be if they hold or not, I'd just like to see some clarity about these releases from VALIANT who definitely know how many are printed. I think it looks cool, it's fun, and wanted them, but it's really a burn if we find out there are 5k of these. I buy what I think is cool, passed on the talking things because I didn't think they were (though bought Aja variant because he's dope).

While the content of the actually issue certainly doesn't seem to earn any value, I don't think a lot of comics of high value do. There's really no reason for a lot of VALIANTs to garner the premiums (CEAR etc) they do in terms of actual content.

There were more X-O #1 QRs out at around the same time period selling for $150-200 all day long. If you think a comics value is based on initial hype, then I have a QR for you right now. It's selling for a lot of money right now because it just became available. You (and others) are fighting to be one of the firsts to own it. That demand will die down and they will be cheaper.

The fact that you are paying $70-100 a piece for what I assume are several issues doesn't mean that is what they are worth. It means you're willing to pay more now to not risk having to pay more later. If you've been doing that with all the variants and promos, then you have lost a lot of money. But for all I know you've got the money to burn and you'd prefer the piece of mind. If it turns out the print run is 5k (which I doubt it's that high) then it's 5k. It won't be a burn, because Valiant never hinted at a print run and if anyone thinks the "500 top retailers" comment was a hint at print runs then they haven't been paying attention to everything else.

The only thing I can say about books like CEAR (which gets mentioned alot when comparing print runs to value) is that the original VH1 Valiant universe is VERY possible to complete. It's a finite series and there are less variants in it's entire run than the new Valiant has to date. So it is far easier to be a completest of VH1 and makes it easier for people to justify dropping top dollar on some of the rarer books. On the flip side, many have become frustrated with the amount of variants made by the new Valiant and have given up trying (myself included). That's going to cut down on some of the demand for these variants after the initial hype dies down. That means it'll probably be cheaper in a few months and stay that way until the popularity of Valiant get bigger.

[etos45]

I didn't buy QRs because I thought they were whack, but if I did, I'd know what I'd be getting into. I thought they were and still are overpriced, and they probably always will be mostly because I don't like them and they didn't strike me as impressive. The appeal must have been over my head because I wouldn't have been interested in them at cover price of the regular edition. This equates to me not spending premium prices to be the first anything. I will pay a premium for something I WANT - in such cases on can never lose. That said, this wouldn't be the first time that VALIANT, who uses the web effectively, is a bit vague about various preview editions they have done and just how many are out there. It would be a burn because, and I can only speak for myself, I'll let it happen before it bothers me enough to not pick up the collected editions (only format I read comics, except Saga) when they come out.

Your response seems very odd because it seems like you are trying to educate me about the comic market as if the Shadowman Black is the first comic I've ever bought. That wouldn't be a stable premise, as all I tend to buy are variants/previews/ashcans/con editions of stuff I like and I do so at what I'd call a pretty good rate for several years.

Something like the Saga diamond edition certainly feels like its stable after debuting hot. Just as easily, there could be 1500-2500 of these Shadowman things, and with people carrying multiples I think demand will always be stable even in a relatively small diehard VALIANT market - you can't have a so-called "master" set w/o one.. That said, I don't sell comics, so it doesn't matter to me, but it is a possibility.

Bottom line, when I first saw it (via twitter) I thought it was cool and wanted it, now I do, and I'm happy. Not sure what the problem is.

I get what you're saying about QR, personally I think it was a great idea. That's just me, though. I like the way the Shadowman Black looks, but since it's only a 6 (8? 10?) page B&W preview of a comic coming in two months, I wouldn't pay more than $20. Again, it's a difference of priorities. When I say you're paying a premium to be the first, it still stands. Not the first of everything, but the first of this. In a month, I am very confident this will be cheaper.

Please don't think I'm trying to educate you on anything. I am not a "comic market" guy. What I am, though, is a guy that has watched these Valiant variants and preview come out and every one of them has dropped in value. In the case of the "valuable" comics, it usually only remains true for a month then the price starts to drop.

I don't think you are going to find too many people who are going to try to complete a "master set", again because of the exhausting amount of variants. I could be wrong, only time will tell on that. I just see a lot of people dropping out early. Maybe they're just the most vocal, though.

And don't think I have any problem with you liking Shadowman Black and wanting however many copies you want. That was never what I was talking about, I only said my opinion that I don't think they are worth more than $50 when the initial demand calms down. If you are willing to pay more, then by all means load up.

[kevinbastos]

I, unfortunately, am a Valiant completist. Completionist?

I dunno.

Anyway, I like the preview - cool idea.

But I am not ready to shell out a bunch for it. Yet.

It is the first thing that I am not yet crazy pursuing. Do I want one? Yes. Will I eventually get one? Probably. But I am not ready to drop the crazy cash it is currently selling for.

[drmirage]

Same here. I can buy a lot of ice cream with the price these are going for.

It would be awesome to get one, but my LCS did not qualify to get one. I'll wait.

I, unfortunately, am a Valiant completist. Completionist?

I dunno.

Anyway, I like the preview - cool idea.

But I am not ready to shell out a bunch for it. Yet.

It is the first thing that I am not yet crazy pursuing. Do I want one? Yes. Will I eventually get one? Probably. But I am not ready to drop the crazy cash it is currently selling for.

[GGSAE]

I, unfortunately, am a Valiant completist. Completionist?

I dunno.

Anyway, I like the preview - cool idea.

But I am not ready to shell out a bunch for it. Yet.

It is the first thing that I am not yet crazy pursuing. Do I want one? Yes. Will I eventually get one? Probably. But I am not ready to drop the crazy cash it is currently selling for.

Same here, and I'm a huge Shadowman Fan! I just don't think the demand will increase, at best stay static, as greater supply of these continues to find their way. I'd grab one, but don't know if I would pay more than $50 (and I have all the rare Acclaim Shadowmans), but that could change in time.

[GGSAE]

Bunch on ebay right now, all of them seem to be above $50 in bids or getting there.

The only thing I can say about books like CEAR (which gets mentioned alot when comparing print runs to value) is that the original VH1 Valiant universe is VERY possible to complete. It's a finite series and there are less variants in it's entire run than the new Valiant has to date. So it is far easier to be a completest of VH1 and makes it easier for people to justify dropping top dollar on some of the rarer books. On the flip side, many have become frustrated with the amount of variants made by the new Valiant and have given up trying (myself included). That's going to cut down on some of the demand for these variants after the initial hype dies down. That means it'll probably be cheaper in a few months and stay that way until the popularity of Valiant get bigger.

I think with the CEAR in particular, is that it's rarer than the estimated print run (you only see a few on ebay a year generally), and was neglected as something that fell through the cracks, then got buried in time. I'm looking at the VE1 variants similar to Harris and Vampirella (which might have a comparable fan base, slight edge to Valiant). There are books that have a variant limited to 2500,1500,500,100, etc., you get the point. Basically what happens in this case, is that even the ones limited to 500 can be picked up for next to nothing. The Shadowman Black (whatever the print run is), also has a complementary 1:20, and 1:50, right? So am I gonna shell out $50+ for each of the rarer variants, plus the lesser variants and regular issues?

[MarkRoseHFX]

It's worth normal cover price or Ice cream to me that's all i know. looks cool and i hope i get to read it but I wouldn't spend any more than that on it even if i did have it.

[etos45]

It's worth normal cover price or Ice cream to me that's all i know. looks cool and i hope i get to read it but I wouldn't spend any more than that on it even if i did have it.

I'll see your ice cream, and raise you some chocolate fudge, nuts, and sprinkles!

(If this turns in to a bidding war, I may have to break out some whip cream...)

[VEI Reborn]

If anybody seriously thinks these are $50 books if the print run holds true, I will buy them all from you.

I am not sure why everyone keeps saying 500 printed. We know that is not true.


500 retailers got them and we know a few people at the Baltimore show got them. I bet there is at least 1000 printed. Even still, Im fine with buying them at $100

I never mentioned 500, so not sure why I'm being quoted. My assumption, and that's all it is, is its roughly 1000. I can tell you that while it's all a shot in the dark with no one to blame, I'd be really salty, as in done with, with VALIANT if this is a mass produced promo.

There's one thing making variants an limited editions etc, it's another being intentionally cloudy.

I quoted you because you mentioned "if the print run holds true". I was simply commenting on that statement. I did not say that YOU said anything specifically.

A bit of standoffish ehh? Relax, you are amongst friends

[Aram]

I really wonder. I'm personally shocked at the price of many pre unity slabs. Things that are VH1 under 1000 print runs get sky high in price, but 50k print run 20 year old comics in 9.6 slabs can be had for $25-30$? When there are only 15-20 slabbed?

I really wonder how many die hard collectors there are for valiant. Will prices go up or will they go down when people continue to dig out their collections and previous rares become more attainable?

I'd have to say $25-$40 long term worth on the black unless it ignites and maintains a 25k+ print run after 6 months without extra variants above a 1:25.

[FormerReader]

I really wonder. I'm personally shocked at the price of many pre unity slabs. Things that are VH1 under 1000 print runs get sky high in price, but 50k print run 20 year old comics in 9.6 slabs can be had for $25-30$? When there are only 15-20 slabbed?

I really wonder how many die hard collectors there are for valiant. Will prices go up or will they go down when people continue to dig out their collections and previous rares become more attainable?

I'd have to say $25-$40 long term worth on the black unless it ignites and maintains a 25k+ print run after 6 months without extra variants above a 1:25.

Over the last year I have learned the market is drastically different than it was in 1995. I would say the current Valiant market is very small. I believe that the number of Valiant collectors going forward will outpace the amount of rare issues that turn up, but I don't think we will see prices grow much in the near term.

[missjay]

shadowman 102.50 10 bids