Archer and Armstrong #1 discussion thread

[Ben(inabox)]

So I know this is... small and nit-picky, but... Did anyone else notice that the thug at the bottom of page 16 is wearing his belt like a woman? Do you think this is an artist error, or is it indicative or something?

[Blood of Heroes]

Considering the Immortal Enemy was Gilad's Master Darque, I think it is fair to say we will see him and that he is likely connected to the Boon.

Originally, the Immortal Enemy's story wasn't explained just like the immortal brothers wasn't. He was just one *SQUEE* off general who was going to get back at Gilad one was or the other.

I guess if they're going to explain the brothers with the Boon, it makes sense they'll explain the Immortal Enemy too.


...if there's an Immortal Enemy.

[BugsySig]

Considering the Immortal Enemy was Gilad's Master Darque, I think it is fair to say we will see him and that he is likely connected to the Boon.

Originally, the Immortal Enemy's story wasn't explained just like the immortal brothers wasn't. He was just one *SQUEE* off general who was going to get back at Gilad one was or the other.

I guess if they're going to explain the brothers with the Boon, it makes sense they'll explain the Immortal Enemy too.


...if there's an Immortal Enemy.

It's too good of a concept not to explore.

[jmatt]

It was mentioned but I don't remember it ever being explored.

It's quite possible it wasn't and was never intended to be anything more than a happy coincidence. I think the Boon is going to be the lynchpin in this new universe, the Solar.

I thought Gilad said that Gilgamesh was his son (that the first geomancer talked Gilad in to letting stay inside the city). Been a while since I read it though. Might have been his grandson now that I think about it.

I think Gilad says that Gilgamesh is descended from his son Kalam. The discussion is in EW 1.

Yeah but VH1 continuity doesn't apply in the new books. Don't expect that it will indicate anything in 2012; that's chasing ghosts.

I thought the question was about VH1 continuity.

It was but the exchange started like this: "Nice. I like your speculation on Gilad and the Faraway. Remember this line by Aram from Eternal Warrior #1?"

So to me, it sounded like people postulating about the Faraway and citing VH1 as possible evidence, albeit in a tangential manner.

[iwantvaliant]

So I was vacationing in Maine and I didn't get to read this until last night.

It was awesome. I want more. That is all.

[Blood of Heroes]

So I was vacationing in Maine and I didn't get to read this until last night.

It was awesome. I want more. That is all.

Maine? Did you hit up Wrunow for a sandwich? Best in town!

[kevinbastos]

I was on vacation much of last week, and read this VERY recently. Avoided most of the critique until now.

I am not sure where I would place this in the set of books at this point, but I thought this was the strongest of he number one issues. Harbinger is at the top of my heap now, but this one issue was quite good. Look at all of the research so far.

Also, the 1% was a very timely reference especially in light of what is going on in this country (and most of the world) right now.

Both parties cater to the monied interests. Let's not pretend otherwise.

This is the danger of getting political in a comic book. End rant.

Only new thing I thought was the bears and bulls could easily be both sides of the aisle.

[BugsySig]

I was on vacation much of last week, and read this VERY recently. Avoided most of the critique until now.

I am not sure where I would place this in the set of books at this point, but I thought this was the strongest of he number one issues. Harbinger is at the top of my heap now, but this one issue was quite good. Look at all of the research so far.

Also, the 1% was a very timely reference especially in light of what is going on in this country (and most of the world) right now.

Both parties cater to the monied interests. Let's not pretend otherwise.

This is the danger of getting political in a comic book. End rant.

Only new thing I thought was the bears and bulls could easily be both sides of the aisle.

I think we will find that the 1% cover all of the political, corporate and religious groups that try to dominate the world in various ways...much as the original version of the Sect did.

[jmatt]

I was on vacation much of last week, and read this VERY recently. Avoided most of the critique until now.

I am not sure where I would place this in the set of books at this point, but I thought this was the strongest of he number one issues. Harbinger is at the top of my heap now, but this one issue was quite good. Look at all of the research so far.

Also, the 1% was a very timely reference especially in light of what is going on in this country (and most of the world) right now.

Both parties cater to the monied interests. Let's not pretend otherwise.

This is the danger of getting political in a comic book. End rant.

Only new thing I thought was the bears and bulls could easily be both sides of the aisle.

It most certainly is in the real world; grandstanding, bailouts and demonization notwithstanding.

[greg]

So I know this is... small and nit-picky, but... Did anyone else notice that the thug at the bottom of page 16 is wearing his belt like a woman? Do you think this is an artist error, or is it indicative or something?

You mean the guy who gets puked on?

[Ben(inabox)]

You mean the guy who gets puked on?

Yes! And now that I am looking at it, the guy Archer is kicking on the next page is also wearing his belt on the "wrong" side.

[greg]

You mean the guy who gets puked on?

Yes! And now that I am looking at it, the guy Archer is kicking on the next page is also wearing his belt on the "wrong" side.

I'm going to assume it has no meaning... but I will give you a couple of "no-prizes" for seeing that.

[manga4life]

After reading through A&A #1 for a 3rd time I really finally started to feel as if this title is better than I originally thought, I still think it's the weakest of the first 4 Valiant Entertainment books but it's really quite a good story and now officially has me gripped. To say it's the least best of the first 4 is still a compliment in itself since all 4 of the Valiant titles have been stellar, this just happens to be 4th place for me but that doesn't mean I didn't enjoy it. It was a very fun read and I'm totally looking forward to see this "friendship" between Archer and Armstrong blossom in the upcoming issues and to see more of this cult that seems to be dismissing Archer now.

[carter3175]

I need to see more from this...This book was just OK IMO.

[400yrs]

I need to see more from this...This book was just OK IMO.

It's going to take a few issues for me to decide as well. This is the first of the VEI line that I didn't have any desire to re-read after the first time.

[BugsySig]

I need to see more from this...This book was just OK IMO.

It's going to take a few issues for me to decide as well. This is the first of the VEI line that I didn't have any desire to re-read after the first time.

Opposite for me. Read it a second time almost immediately. Harbinger is the only other title I have done that with...though I have re-read all of them at least once so far.

[Zaphod]

One thing I meant to respond to awhile back but forgot to, Archer isn't in shackles or tied up because he is not "The Great Satan" He's just a kid who they believed to be "on their side". He's not a threat or so the 1% believes.

[jmatt]

You mean the guy who gets puked on?

Yes! And now that I am looking at it, the guy Archer is kicking on the next page is also wearing his belt on the "wrong" side.

Huh. The Secret Backward Belt Society. Probably Sect...

[yardstick]

I figured I'd drop this here as well. It's a reply to this thread: viewtopic.php?f=33&t=37771" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It contains speculation one several things brought up in that thread (such as the Fulcrum and Plane)as well as what is, I feel, a massive connection that has been blacked out as it MAY be a HUGE spoiler. I felt as I delved into this that it belonged here, as it touches on far more than just the Boon.

Okay, several more notes/thoughts:

The Boon: The Boon was activated and ended the world. Armstrong clearly survived, as he describes breaking the thing into pieces (of which four more, besides the fulcrum and plane, are still sought by the 1%) to keep it from being used again. I think it's clear that Aram is immortal beacause of the Boon, and it's not a stretch to imagine that Ivar is still alive. As for the idea of it reviving dead humans (assuming the Anni-Pada are in fact human), we know that Eternal Warrior has been announced, so Gilad must have been brought back. From there it's not a stretch to imagine the other dead folk in the room did, too. This means there are a possible 9 Immortals now walking the earth (the three brothers, the two guards and the three to four people Ivar presumably killed) as a result of the Boon.
When the Boon is fired, we CLEARLY see Aram being knocked BACK by the energy. HOWEVER... look at the panel that depicts the reaction from the other side. Some of the 'blur lines' appear to PRECEED the chunks of rock, etc. in the PRESUMED direction of the reaction. This is not indicative of an outward force. Some lines appear to contradict this, though, as does one of the two stone structures depicted. The other appears bent TOWARD the Boon. The people shown don't offer much help. This makes me think the Boon may have ABSORBED all life force one earth and granted it to those on the other side. This makes me think the position of the Fulcrum was off, massive energy required on the one end for the purpose on the other. All the lives of the world to the nine. Ivar had it cranked to 11.

Sons of Perdition: The visage used by the gang appears to be that of Baphomet, a representation of Pagan gods (possibly never actually revered in the old days) currently used to indicate worship of Satan. I think it's important to note, though, that the energy from the Fulcrum is still 'pointing' towards Aram; it's possible the biker just happened to get in the way and that this was a 'red herring.'

The Sect: The Sect includes the Dominion and the 1%, and likely the Freemasons. The Freemasons and The Dominion (Archer's folk) both held a piece of the Boon. Archer's parents state 'we are all one sect' to which the 1% reply and refer to Mammon, a personification of greed. We're likely going to see a war between different parts of the Sect.
The masks and the statue are of a Golden Bull. The Golden Bull is a false god in the bible, but also (and more importantly) the Bull of Heaven from Mesopotamian times. Mesopotamia/Ur/Uruk/Iraq. The Sect on the whole has infiltrated most secret societies in the world in search of the Boon. I feel like pieces of The Sect could be headed by the several other possible immortals.

This next one may ruin everything.

The Epic of Gilgamesh: Wikipedia it. It's the first recorded epic from Mesopotamia. Several things about this are interesting, and one is probably going to ruin everything. The Bull of Heaven is killed by Gilgamesh in the epic, but even more interesting is the fact that Gilgamesh seeks out the man Utnapishtim, also referred to as 'the faraway,' to learn the secret to eternal life which was granted to him by the gods. Gilad is Gilgamesh???

I read or heard somewhere that Utnapishtim was the ancient Babylonian name for Noah...

[SJS4]

Nice. I like your speculation on Gilad and the Faraway. Remember this line by Aram from Eternal Warrior #1?

"I've heard news from the East of a great warrior king called Gil-gamesh. i thought, perhaps, it was you!"

You know, that does sound familiar! I was thinking yesterday that the connection between the two may have been made in VH1.

It was mentioned but I don't remember it ever being explored.

It's quite possible it wasn't and was never intended to be anything more than a happy coincidence. I think the Boon is going to be the lynchpin in this new universe, the Solar.

I thought Gilad said that Gilgamesh was his son (that the first geomancer talked Gilad in to letting stay inside the city). Been a while since I read it though. Might have been his grandson now that I think about it.

I think Gilad says that Gilgamesh is descended from his son Kalam. The discussion is in EW 1.

FWIW I reread EW#1 this weekend (I bought another gold copy and decided to flip through it) and Gilgamesh was Kalam's son (along with another King of Ur, cannot remember the name). I also noticed that the city that Gilad/Aram's tribe was attacking has a giant pyramid in the center that looks very similar to the one in A&A#1. It never clicked in my head until now that it actually must have been Ur that Gilad/Aram and their tribe were attacking.

[Baramos]

I have the feeling whether you thought this book was a rip-roaringly funny satire or a painfully dull slog full of broad caricatures is going to depend on your political leanings...

I, personally, thought it was a hilarious take on neocons, Christian conservatives, and Wall Street. The ending, when the real "plan" was revealed, had me in stitches. So you can probably guess which side of the political spectrum I fall on.

EDIT: The Dominion members being dressed as Bears and Bulls was because it represented the "bear" and "bull" markets of Wall Street trading, not because they were supposed to be from both sides of the aisle...that said the Cult of Mammon is supposed to represent rich capitalists, not necessarily Republicans or Democrats. But the combination of it with the satirical bits about the Reverend and Congresswoman Archer's Creationist-themed Bible park kind of tells me they were making fun of the far right, not the far left...

Anyway, that was my take on it.

[BugsySig]

I have the feeling whether you thought this book was a rip-roaringly funny satire or a painfully dull slog full of broad caricatures is going to depend on your political leanings...

I, personally, thought it was a hilarious take on neocons, Christian conservatives, and Wall Street. The ending, when the real "plan" was revealed, had me in stitches. So you can probably guess which side of the political spectrum I fall on.

EDIT: The Dominion members being dressed as Bears and Bulls was because it represented the "bear" and "bull" markets of Wall Street trading, not because they were supposed to be from both sides of the aisle...that said the Cult of Mammon is supposed to represent rich capitalists, not necessarily Republicans or Democrats. But the combination of it with the satirical bits about the Reverend and Congresswoman Archer's Creationist-themed Bible park kind of tells me they were making fun of the far right, not the far left...

Anyway, that was my take on it.

I think "The Dominion" and the "1%" are different, yet as the congresswoman says are part of the same "Sect". I think it is jumping the gun to say FVL is painting the 1% to be neo-Conservative Christians. They are simply the greedy *SQUEE* who are trying to run the world to gain themselves the most profit. I think we may soon see a socialist, hippie, tree-hugging faction of the Sect just as well.