Archer and Armstrong #1 discussion thread

[MarrowMan]

So, I don't post up a bunch of our written content from OTV here, because I don't want to be spammy, but I thought this was relevant. Here are all the religious, cultural, and historical references in A&A #1:

http://onlythevaliant.com/2012/08/ana-w ... e-o-matic/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Did I miss any? I can already think of one I missed.

Great article

Gotta include the now translated plaque text for the heathen civilizations, though.

I also still think "Suri" is a jab at Tom Cruise and his cult-like tendencies.

[nutflush76]

So, I don't post up a bunch of our written content from OTV here, because I don't want to be spammy, but I thought this was relevant. Here are all the religious, cultural, and historical references in A&A #1:

http://onlythevaliant.com/2012/08/ana-w ... e-o-matic/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Did I miss any? I can already think of one I missed.

Great article! The only one I can think of that you missed I mentioned earlier in this thread, The "Greed is Godly" is a likely reference to the Gordon Gekko character from Wall Street's saying of "Greed is good."

[Dr. Solar]

Gotta include the now translated plaque text for the heathen civilizations, though.

I also still think "Suri" is a jab at Tom Cruise and his cult-like tendencies.

Isn't the plaque text just "Lorem ipsum"?

Great article! The only one I can think of that you missed I mentioned earlier in this thread, The "Greed is Godly" is a likely reference to the Gordon Gekko character from Wall Street's saying of "Greed is good."

yup, that's a good one.

[Chiclo]

Gotta include the now translated plaque text for the heathen civilizations, though.

I also still think "Suri" is a jab at Tom Cruise and his cult-like tendencies.

Isn't the plaque text just "Lorem ipsum"?

"Pain itself".

"Isn't the plaque text just pain itself?"

I find that funny.

[Dr. Solar]

But "lorem" isn't actually a word, right? It's the last two-thirds of "dolorem".

[manga4life]

It was a good debut issue but I think it's by far the weakest of the 4 initial Valiant titles and I wasn't overly anticipating this book nearly as much as the previous three. I didn't like the art all that much, the story as a whole wasn't bad with Archer bumping into Armstrong at the bar/piano recital and finding out that he's the one he's been hunting, the book really hit the ground running when they were kidnapped and placed in an unknown location and the ending ended up gripping me for issue #2. But like I said, as a whole I wasn't feeling this book nearly as much as the other 3, I do plan on re-reading it over the next day or so and hopefully when I'm a little less worn out it will leave a deeper effect on me, but as of right now I think it's just "good" but nothing great at the start.

[Heath]

But "lorem" isn't actually a word, right? It's the last two-thirds of "dolorem".

Google Translate disagrees with all three of you.

[BugsySig]

Gotta include the now translated plaque text for the heathen civilizations, though.

I also still think "Suri" is a jab at Tom Cruise and his cult-like tendencies.

Isn't the plaque text just "Lorem

Yes, but Morrow translated the full text. That has to have a source, no?

"Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum."

"Nor again is there anyone who loves or pursues or desires to obtain pain of itself, because it is pain, but because occasionally circumstances occur in which toil and pain can procure him some great pleasure. To take a trivial example, which of us ever undertakes laborious physical exercise, except to obtain some advantage from it? But who has any right to find fault with a man who chooses to enjoy a pleasure that has no annoying consequences, or one who avoids a pain that produces no resultant pleasure?"

In publishing and graphic design, lorem ipsum is standard placeholder text used to demonstrate the graphic elements of a document or visual presentation, such as font, typography, and layout. Lorem ipsum also serves as placeholder text in mock-ups of visual design projects before the actual words are inserted into the finished product. When used in this manner, it is often called greeking.

Edit: so used something called "google" and all these websites popped up...crazy. One of them said,

The following text is just dummy text taken from the speech “The Extremes of Good and Evil” by Cicero.

[Dr. Solar]

Gotta include the now translated plaque text for the heathen civilizations, though.

I also still think "Suri" is a jab at Tom Cruise and his cult-like tendencies.

Isn't the plaque text just "Lorem

Yes, but Morrow translated the full text. That has to have a source, no?

"Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum."

"Nor again is there anyone who loves or pursues or desires to obtain pain of itself, because it is pain, but because occasionally circumstances occur in which toil and pain can procure him some great pleasure. To take a trivial example, which of us ever undertakes laborious physical exercise, except to obtain some advantage from it? But who has any right to find fault with a man who chooses to enjoy a pleasure that has no annoying consequences, or one who avoids a pain that produces no resultant pleasure?"

In publishing and graphic design, lorem ipsum is standard placeholder text used to demonstrate the graphic elements of a document or visual presentation, such as font, typography, and layout. Lorem ipsum also serves as placeholder text in mock-ups of visual design projects before the actual words are inserted into the finished product. When used in this manner, it is often called greeking.

It's just lorem ipsum.

It's a block of dummy text that is used for mock up purposes in graphic design. Yes, it has a source, but the source has lost all relevance, and the "meaninglessness" of the lorem ipsum text is the point.

Lorem Ipsum is used in graphic design specifically because it is meaningless, so that the actual words used won't distract from the layout and design of the page when presenting a mock up of a design.

I'm certain that it is not a reference to anything, and is purely a graphic design tool used to look like real text when it is shrunk so small.

[BugsySig]

Gotta include the now translated plaque text for the heathen civilizations, though.

I also still think "Suri" is a jab at Tom Cruise and his cult-like tendencies.

Isn't the plaque text just "Lorem

Yes, but Morrow translated the full text. That has to have a source, no?

"Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum."

"Nor again is there anyone who loves or pursues or desires to obtain pain of itself, because it is pain, but because occasionally circumstances occur in which toil and pain can procure him some great pleasure. To take a trivial example, which of us ever undertakes laborious physical exercise, except to obtain some advantage from it? But who has any right to find fault with a man who chooses to enjoy a pleasure that has no annoying consequences, or one who avoids a pain that produces no resultant pleasure?"

In publishing and graphic design, lorem ipsum is standard placeholder text used to demonstrate the graphic elements of a document or visual presentation, such as font, typography, and layout. Lorem ipsum also serves as placeholder text in mock-ups of visual design projects before the actual words are inserted into the finished product. When used in this manner, it is often called greeking.

It's just lorem ipsum.

It's a block of dummy text that is used for mock up purposes in graphic design. Yes, it has a source, but the source has lost all relevance, and the "meaninglessness" of the lorem ipsum text is the point.

Lorem Ipsum is used in graphic design specifically because it is meaningless, so that the actual words used won't distract from the layout and design of the page when presenting a mock up of a design.

I'm certain that it is not a reference to anything, and is purely a graphic design tool used to look like real text when it is shrunk so small.

I just think it sounds too much like Aram to be a coincidence...they took the time to add the dummy text, why not put in the same text as the captions from Genesis? I looked right at it, so it didnt do its job of not detracting from the page.

[Dr. Solar]

It's just lorem ipsum.

It's a block of dummy text that is used for mock up purposes in graphic design. Yes, it has a source, but the source has lost all relevance, and the "meaninglessness" of the lorem ipsum text is the point.

Lorem Ipsum is used in graphic design specifically because it is meaningless, so that the actual words used won't distract from the layout and design of the page when presenting a mock up of a design.

I'm certain that it is not a reference to anything, and is purely a graphic design tool used to look like real text when it is shrunk so small.

I just think it sounds too much like Aram to be a coincidence...they took the time to add the dummy text, why not put in the same text as the captions from Genesis? I looked right at it, so it didnt do its job of not detracting from the page.

I'm pretty sure it is coincidence. To anyone that works in graphic design/page layout, lorem ipsum is the easiest possible block of text to use for this sort of application, and probably the first thing that any designer would think to use. It's an Occam's Razor sort of thing.

My guess is that it was never intended for this to even be legible, and it is only a fluke of high resolution retina style displays that we can even see what the text is.

[Heath]

So, I don't post up a bunch of our written content from OTV here, because I don't want to be spammy, but I thought this was relevant. Here are all the religious, cultural, and historical references in A&A #1:

http://onlythevaliant.com/2012/08/ana-w ... e-o-matic/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Did I miss any? I can already think of one I missed.

The 1% were wearing masks representing bears and bulls - symbols of the stock market. The statue behind them appears to be the Merrill Lynch bull.

The biker gang "Sons of Perdition" might be a reference to the Sons of Anarchy from the biker drama of the same name. Perdition is also "A state of eternal punishment and damnation into which a sinful and unpenitent person passes after death." Their patch was a goat head, a symbol of Satan in some beliefs.

[MoonChild]

After just reading it, I am now interested in the line. I felt acher didnt really look like Archer though but armstrong def looked the part. We'll see how this turns out!

[BugsySig]

So, I don't post up a bunch of our written content from OTV here, because I don't want to be spammy, but I thought this was relevant. Here are all the religious, cultural, and historical references in A&A #1:

http://onlythevaliant.com/2012/08/ana-w ... e-o-matic/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Did I miss any? I can already think of one I missed.

The 1% were wearing masks representing bears and bulls - symbols of the stock market. The statue behind them appears to be the Merrill Lynch bull.

The biker gang "Sons of Perdition" might be a reference to the Sons of Anarchy from the biker drama of the same name. Perdition is also "A state of eternal punishment and damnation into which a sinful and unpenitent person passes after death." Their patch was a goat head, a symbol of Satan in some beliefs.

First appearance of Goat?

[Zaphod]

It's just lorem ipsum.

It's a block of dummy text that is used for mock up purposes in graphic design. Yes, it has a source, but the source has lost all relevance, and the "meaninglessness" of the lorem ipsum text is the point.

Lorem Ipsum is used in graphic design specifically because it is meaningless, so that the actual words used won't distract from the layout and design of the page when presenting a mock up of a design.

I'm certain that it is not a reference to anything, and is purely a graphic design tool used to look like real text when it is shrunk so small.

I just think it sounds too much like Aram to be a coincidence...they took the time to add the dummy text, why not put in the same text as the captions from Genesis? I looked right at it, so it didnt do its job of not detracting from the page.

I'm pretty sure it is coincidence. To anyone that works in graphic design/page layout, lorem ipsum is the easiest possible block of text to use for this sort of application, and probably the first thing that any designer would think to use. It's an Occam's Razor sort of thing.

My guess is that it was never intended for this to even be legible, and it is only a fluke of high resolution retina style displays that we can even see what the text is.

I have to concur, it was so small as to be illegible unless blown up huge amounts. I recall an instance in the tv show LOST where there was a paper that one of the charcters (Locke) was reading and it leaked and the fans were going on and on about some clues in the article. Producers later came out and said, it was never intended to be read.

The Lorem Ipsum was also used in one of the books in the "Ultimate Power" crossover when the Ultimate Universe crossed with the Supreme Power Universe and I was convinced it was some huge easter egg. It was nothing. It is nothing this time around, as well.

[Donovan]

I almost took Lorem Ipsum in the book to imply that, just like in design, whatever creationist nonsense this museum card could possibly be going on about, it's meaningless words taking up space, just like Lorem Ipsum.

[Dr. Solar]

So, I don't post up a bunch of our written content from OTV here, because I don't want to be spammy, but I thought this was relevant. Here are all the religious, cultural, and historical references in A&A #1:

http://onlythevaliant.com/2012/08/ana-w ... e-o-matic/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Did I miss any? I can already think of one I missed.

The 1% were wearing masks representing bears and bulls - symbols of the stock market. The statue behind them appears to be the Merrill Lynch bull.

That's the one I knew I missed

The biker gang "Sons of Perdition" might be a reference to the Sons of Anarchy from the biker drama of the same name. Perdition is also "A state of eternal punishment and damnation into which a sinful and unpenitent person passes after death." Their patch was a goat head, a symbol of Satan in some beliefs.

I've never seen Sons of Anarchy, so this was lost on me, though that makes sense. I wasn't sure how much the "sons of perdition" thing was a specific reference, or just trying to come up with an "evil" sounding biker gang name, like Hell's Angels. The Goat head symbol is definitely a satan symbol, if all these death metal albums I own are to be believed

[MarkRoseHFX]

I've never seen Sons of Anarchy, so this was lost on me, though that makes sense. I wasn't sure how much the "sons of perdition" thing was a specific reference, or just trying to come up with an "evil" sounding biker gang name, like Hell's Angels. The Goat head symbol is definitely a satan symbol, if all these death metal albums I own are to be believed

Sons of Anarchy is AMAZING. one of the best shows on TV today. It's not The Wire but it's awesome

I also thought the Sons of Perdition was a reference to SOA.

I wonder how much of this stuff was intentional and how much is stuff we're all picking up on and the Valiant guys are like OMG we never thought of it THAT way

[Heath]

With "Perdition" being another word for "Hell," it could be a reference to the Hell's Angels as much as Sons of Anarchy.

[greg]

It's a name for a biker gang that is similar to recognizable gangs. More importantly, "son of perdition" is the Biblical reference to Armstrong that Archer's parents used when they sent him to New York.

Archer has the fulcrum pointing at the guy (because Armstrong is on the other side), and the guy's jacket labels him with the name his parents told him to find.

[Heath]

More importantly, "son of perdition" is the Biblical reference to Armstrong that Archer's parents used when they sent him to New York.

Archer has the fulcrum pointing at the guy (because Armstrong is on the other side), and the guy's jacket labels him with the name his parents told him to find.

I read the book 3 times and didn't catch that! I also just noticed that the title of the issue was "Sons Of Perdition."

[The Dirt Gang]

I think it's interesting that Archer has a fulcrum. Looking at the definition of fulcrum - "The point or support on which a lever pivots." This is definitely symbolic of Archer's place in this new world.

[The Dirt Gang]

More importantly, "son of perdition" is the Biblical reference to Armstrong that Archer's parents used when they sent him to New York.

Archer has the fulcrum pointing at the guy (because Armstrong is on the other side), and the guy's jacket labels him with the name his parents told him to find.

I read the book 3 times and didn't catch that! I also just noticed that the title of the issue was "Sons Of Perdition."

Great title as it can refer to either Archer or Armstrong. Perdition being the loss of the soul. Given the type of people Archer's parents appear to be, it would stand to reason that Archer is a "Son of Perdition".

[KXXX]

I figured I'd drop this here as well. It's a reply to this thread: viewtopic.php?f=33&t=37771" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It contains speculation one several things brought up in that thread (such as the Fulcrum and Plane)as well as what is, I feel, a massive connection that has been blacked out as it MAY be a HUGE spoiler. I felt as I delved into this that it belonged here, as it touches on far more than just the Boon.

Okay, several more notes/thoughts:

The Boon: The Boon was activated and ended the world. Armstrong clearly survived, as he describes breaking the thing into pieces (of which four more, besides the fulcrum and plane, are still sought by the 1%) to keep it from being used again. I think it's clear that Aram is immortal beacause of the Boon, and it's not a stretch to imagine that Ivar is still alive. As for the idea of it reviving dead humans (assuming the Anni-Pada are in fact human), we know that Eternal Warrior has been announced, so Gilad must have been brought back. From there it's not a stretch to imagine the other dead folk in the room did, too. This means there are a possible 9 Immortals now walking the earth (the three brothers, the two guards and the three to four people Ivar presumably killed) as a result of the Boon.
When the Boon is fired, we CLEARLY see Aram being knocked BACK by the energy. HOWEVER... look at the panel that depicts the reaction from the other side. Some of the 'blur lines' appear to PRECEED the chunks of rock, etc. in the PRESUMED direction of the reaction. This is not indicative of an outward force. Some lines appear to contradict this, though, as does one of the two stone structures depicted. The other appears bent TOWARD the Boon. The people shown don't offer much help. This makes me think the Boon may have ABSORBED all life force one earth and granted it to those on the other side. This makes me think the position of the Fulcrum was off, massive energy required on the one end for the purpose on the other. All the lives of the world to the nine. Ivar had it cranked to 11.

Sons of Perdition: The visage used by the gang appears to be that of Baphomet, a representation of Pagan gods (possibly never actually revered in the old days) currently used to indicate worship of Satan. I think it's important to note, though, that the energy from the Fulcrum is still 'pointing' towards Aram; it's possible the biker just happened to get in the way and that this was a 'red herring.'

The Sect: The Sect includes the Dominion and the 1%, and likely the Freemasons. The Freemasons and The Dominion (Archer's folk) both held a piece of the Boon. Archer's parents state 'we are all one sect' to which the 1% reply and refer to Mammon, a personification of greed. We're likely going to see a war between different parts of the Sect.
The masks and the statue are of a Golden Bull. The Golden Bull is a false god in the bible, but also (and more importantly) the Bull of Heaven from Mesopotamian times. Mesopotamia/Ur/Uruk/Iraq. The Sect on the whole has infiltrated most secret societies in the world in search of the Boon. I feel like pieces of The Sect could be headed by the several other possible immortals.

This next one may ruin everything.

The Epic of Gilgamesh: Wikipedia it. It's the first recorded epic from Mesopotamia. Several things about this are interesting, and one is probably going to ruin everything. The Bull of Heaven is killed by Gilgamesh in the epic, but even more interesting is the fact that Gilgamesh seeks out the man Utnapishtim, also referred to as 'the faraway,' to learn the secret to eternal life which was granted to him by the gods. Gilad is Gilgamesh???

[erwinrafael]

Nice. I like your speculation on Gilad and the Faraway. Remember this line by Aram from Eternal Warrior #1?

"I've heard news from the East of a great warrior king called Gil-gamesh. i thought, perhaps, it was you!"