What do you like in your stories?

[Elveen]

So I am re-reading Planetary. Of course it is excellent, even better the second time through. One thing I have enjoyed is the intellengence in the story. There is plenty of: action, back story, character development, plot development, but there is also a large amount of intellengence in the book.

Planetary is not a book for dumb people, or (I would say) a younger audience. It is an adult story. Not necessarily in the typical "adult" way (extreme violence and, um.. mature themes and scenes {although there is some viloence]) but it is adult in the content of the story. Planetary is a book that makes you think and digest more than other books I have read.

For example, Fables (one of my favorite books) has very little adult content in the way that Planetary does. Fables is straight forward in it's story telling, with Planetary there is so much understanding required to "get" the story. The concept of the Bleed is a great example of this.

For me, Some examples of "intellengence" in comics are:

Planetary
Pre-Uni Solar
The League of Extra Ordinary Gentlemen Black Dossier (and some of the back story stuff)
Egypt (a Vertigo 7 issue mini)
And the BIGGEST example of this: Proemthea


So the question is.......

#1) How much "intellengence" do you like in your stories?

#2) And any other books to add to the above list?

[BruceReville]

I like my books to be fun and consistent - and though I love continuity I can live with some changes - just not major ones every 5+ years. If I can read a comic and feel satisfied with it regardless if it is an Archie Digest (Yes I do get those from time to time) or something like Watchmen then I am happy with it.

[kevinbastos]

Great topic. I considered this for a long time - more in movies, but increasingly throughout everything I encounter.

I love great storytelling, but I'm finding more and more to enjoy anticipation to a great conclusion or wrap. It doesn't have to close everything. In fact, open endings are often the most satisfying. But I love the build throughout. Unfortunately, when it reaches the conclusion, a crappy ending can wipe the whole build out.

Ever read a Dean Koontz book? Classic example of a great build to an unsatisfying conclusion that in turn, wrecks the whole experience. Harry Potter was the same way.

I want a book, story, movie, comic, even a song; to BUILD toward an ending, then smack me in the face with a brilliant conclusion. Something that makes me go. "WHAT the HECK!? How did THAT happen? It's even better when superficially, I can predict the conclusion, but the storytelling is so brilliant - it makes me forget that I was even thinking about that conclusion - then it brings it back around again. I'm thinking a Shawshank Redemption, here or a Sixth Sense. I want to go immediately The Solar origin story - especially when paralleled with the ongoing story - and the last panel that we see from the beginning - is a perfect example.

I think these characteristics define intelligence - and for me that's a lot. The writer needs to weave decisions into the story throughout, and only show part of the story, connecting so much more around.

I'll be campy and throw out Watchmen. Crappy film - great book.

I also liked a lot of the middle X-Men - the bronze stuff into the modern era. Some great works there. I liked the weaving of the omnipotence into the Phoenix character and her re-invention, then suicide.

How about realistic confrontation of moral issues? Iron Man alcoholism?

How about Quantum & Woody? I know it's sort of the other side of intelligence, but it's a bit wise in its storytelling.

[slym2none]

They don't have to be overly-intelligent, but don't dumb anything down for the readers. Also, I like to be able to read a comic, sit down and really chew into it. Some may complain about the dialogue back then, but the original Uncanny X-Men run with Chris Claremont was great. It took 15-20 minutes to read his stuff, and yet there wasn't (IMHO) too much story.

Yeah, yeah... rose-tinted glasses and all.......



-slym

[Heath]

I'd add Sandman to the mix. And I think one of the most "intelligent" comics I've read in a long time was Pride of Baghdad.

I totally get what you're talking about regarding intelligence in comic books. And like kevinbastos mentioned, it applies to other media as well. But how much "intelligence" I want really varies with the mood I'm in.

Sometimes, I just like a good old dumb action story where everything is straight forward black and white and the good guy wins and there really isn't much substance. Sometimes it is quite relaxing to be entertained without having to use the brain.

Other times, I like something deep and thought provoking and gives you a bit of a mental exercise.

But really, the most satisfying stories are those that find a balance between the two. Where, on the surface, it's an action story with good guys and bad guys. But, if you pay attention, there's a lot more there just under the surface and how much you discover depends on how much you challenge yourself to think about it.

I think Pre-Unity Valiant did a great job finding that balance. The first two Magnus arcs? The early Solar stuff? You can read them as typical super-hero stories, or let yourself be challenged to think about the meaning of life/sentience, the path of society, the economic rift, the meaning of the universe and the role a flawed god would play in it.

[Cyberstrike]

I'd add Sandman to the mix. And I think one of the most "intelligent" comics I've read in a long time was Pride of Baghdad.

I totally get what you're talking about regarding intelligence in comic books. And like kevinbastos mentioned, it applies to other media as well. But how much "intelligence" I want really varies with the mood I'm in.

Sometimes, I just like a good old dumb action story where everything is straight forward black and white and the good guy wins and there really isn't much substance. Sometimes it is quite relaxing to be entertained without having to use the brain.

Other times, I like something deep and thought provoking and gives you a bit of a mental exercise.

But really, the most satisfying stories are those that find a balance between the two. Where, on the surface, it's an action story with good guys and bad guys. But, if you pay attention, there's a lot more there just under the surface and how much you discover depends on how much you challenge yourself to think about it.

I think Pre-Unity Valiant did a great job finding that balance. The first two Magnus arcs? The early Solar stuff? You can read them as typical super-hero stories, or let yourself be challenged to think about the meaning of life/sentience, the path of society, the economic rift, the meaning of the universe and the role a flawed god would play in it.

QFT. They must be serving snow cones in Hell today because Heath and I agree 100% on something.


A more recent example is Mike Costa's work on The Transformers a lot of fans hate that his work but he is adding more depth and complexity to the characters and forcing the characters to change (which is really what the Transformers are all about ironically) in a different world, and where the rules have changed. He's not making the heroes all choir boys and villains are evil monsters. Megatron is trying to prove a point to Optimus Prime that the human race and the Transformers will never be able to coexist in peace and so far Megatron is winning the argument.

I think I once made a comment here about that I like Ozymandias' prank at the end of Watchmen, if you look at the book from a my certainly unusual POV one could make a case that he's the only real hero in the book because he does save the world from a Nuclear War and that Rorschach and company are the villains trying to stop him.

[Phantom..]

words
and colour spelt correctly

carry on ~ just ignore me.

[Elveen]

I want a book, story, movie, comic, even a song; to BUILD toward an ending, then smack me in the face with a brilliant conclusion. Something that makes me go. "WHAT the HECK!? How did THAT happen? It's even better when superficially, I can predict the conclusion, but the storytelling is so brilliant - it makes me forget that I was even thinking about that conclusion - then it brings it back around again.

Heath mentioned Pride of Baghdad. Have you read it? This describes it perfectly.

Another great example of a book that has intellengence and what you listed above is I Kill Giants.

IKG and Pride might be my favorite stand alone stories that I have ever read (in comics)

[kevinbastos]

Heath mentioned Pride of Baghdad. Have you read it? This describes it perfectly.

Another great example of a book that has intellengence and what you listed above is I Kill Giants.

IKG and Pride might be my favorite stand alone stories that I have ever read (in comics)

Just added both to my amazon shopping cart. On the summer read list. Now - YOU go add Game of Thrones. Stay away from the show until you've read it.

[Draco]

The main reason people love writers like Alan Moore and Warren Ellis is that they manage to take what everyone else is doing, but add an intelligence not seen anywhere else. You instantly know as you flip the pages that you are reading one of there books.

That is what i want in a new comic and i read less mainstream titles all the time due to the lack of.
Older comics of course i accept much less, especially as what i grew up with although not unintelligent, the audience was younger in general and most books were a quick one issue story or as close as without blowing your mind or pocket money.

[slym2none]

I want a book, story, movie, comic, even a song; to BUILD toward an ending, then smack me in the face with a brilliant conclusion. Something that makes me go. "WHAT the HECK!? How did THAT happen? It's even better when superficially, I can predict the conclusion, but the storytelling is so brilliant - it makes me forget that I was even thinking about that conclusion - then it brings it back around again.

Heath mentioned Pride of Baghdad. Have you read it? This describes it perfectly.

Another great example of a book that has intellengence and what you listed above is I Kill Giants.

IKG and Pride might be my favorite stand alone stories that I have ever read (in comics)

I will also recommend Pride Of Baghdad. Excellent graphic novel. If you only have a smattering of knowledge of the DC Universe but still want to read a good story from there, try Identity Crisis as aside from all the characters you may or may not know, the story itself is so very good (a Brad Meltzer murder mystery) and if you do know the DC Universe, then you see so many things that affect the 'bigger picture' so to speak (like Batman - mind controlled?) I recommend picking this series up, you might can find issues for cheap on eBay, or just pick up the TPB.

Of course, I cannot recommend God Loves, Man Kills enough, another great story that doesn't rely on the characters so much to make it great. Chris Claremont at his X-Men-y finest.





-slym

[400yrs]

So the question is.......

#1) How much "intellengence" do you like in your stories?

I like reading books that make me think about life, but not really books with alot of "intelligence". If I'm reading super hero stuff, I usually like just a simple story. For slice of life stuff, I read that because it gets me thinking. Every once in a while, a super hero book can have that effect.

#2) And any other books to add to the above list?

It's not really in the "intelligence" genre, but moreso in the I Kill Giants class, but I'd add The Essex County trilogy to that.

Of course, I cannot recommend God Loves, Man Kills enough, another great story that doesn't rely on the characters so much to make it great.

Yeah, this was one of those few special super hero stories. I realized recently that I only like the stories that Claremont did about racism or prejudice. There was a New Mutants issue that was similar. I think it was #45..... The face cover. Great stuff.

[ian_house]

I love intelligent books. But I also love utter trash. Nothing like a whole planet of GL's smashing the faces into some Sinsestro Corps or the like. It really depends on my mood. Sometimes I want silver age simplicity, at others an Alan Moore opus.

I find that I go through trends of reading certain things and what I'm up to in my life often reflects this. For example, I find myself reading alot more 90s stuff in the summer, big splash pages and nothing too text heavy makes for good reading in the sun sat about. But in the middle of winter I'll often want to put together long runs of things like Y last man or Swamp Thing and make my way through them slowly savouring the writers attention to detail and intricate narrative techniques.

[Cyberstrike]

I want a book, story, movie, comic, even a song; to BUILD toward an ending, then smack me in the face with a brilliant conclusion. Something that makes me go. "WHAT the HECK!? How did THAT happen? It's even better when superficially, I can predict the conclusion, but the storytelling is so brilliant - it makes me forget that I was even thinking about that conclusion - then it brings it back around again.

Heath mentioned Pride of Baghdad. Have you read it? This describes it perfectly.

Another great example of a book that has intellengence and what you listed above is I Kill Giants.

IKG and Pride might be my favorite stand alone stories that I have ever read (in comics)

I will also recommend Pride Of Baghdad. Excellent graphic novel. If you only have a smattering of knowledge of the DC Universe but still want to read a good story from there, try Identity Crisis as aside from all the characters you may or may not know, the story itself is so very good (a Brad Meltzer murder mystery) and if you do know the DC Universe, then you see so many things that affect the 'bigger picture' so to speak (like Batman - mind controlled?) I recommend picking this series up, you might can find issues for cheap on eBay, or just pick up the TPB.

Of course, I cannot recommend God Loves, Man Kills enough, another great story that doesn't rely on the characters so much to make it great. Chris Claremont at his X-Men-y finest.





-slym

Identity Crisis the last good thing DC published before it all went down the toilet.

X-Men: God Loves, Man Kills is the ONLY great story Claremont has ever written.

[Elveen]

God Loves, Man Kills has been on my rader for a bit now.

I think I have some B&N gift cards, I might see if I can get this.

[dave]

I want a book, story, movie, comic, even a song; to BUILD toward an ending, then smack me in the face with a brilliant conclusion. Something that makes me go. "WHAT the HECK!? How did THAT happen? It's even better when superficially, I can predict the conclusion, but the storytelling is so brilliant - it makes me forget that I was even thinking about that conclusion - then it brings it back around again.

Heath mentioned Pride of Baghdad. Have you read it? This describes it perfectly.

Another great example of a book that has intellengence and what you listed above is I Kill Giants.

IKG and Pride might be my favorite stand alone stories that I have ever read (in comics)

I will also recommend Pride Of Baghdad. Excellent graphic novel. If you only have a smattering of knowledge of the DC Universe but still want to read a good story from there, try Identity Crisis as aside from all the characters you may or may not know, the story itself is so very good (a Brad Meltzer murder mystery) and if you do know the DC Universe, then you see so many things that affect the 'bigger picture' so to speak (like Batman - mind controlled?) I recommend picking this series up, you might can find issues for cheap on eBay, or just pick up the TPB.

Of course, I cannot recommend God Loves, Man Kills enough, another great story that doesn't rely on the characters so much to make it great. Chris Claremont at his X-Men-y finest.





-slym

X3 or 4 or however many have recommended it. POB is also great visually, which is a bonus.

Identity Crisis might be the best story I've read since Watchmen. I recommend it all the time at work.

Another thing I really like, are the silly little things that get added that might not have any relevance to the story, but add a bit of fun.

In American Son Wolverine thumbs Spidey on the head, and Spidey complains about it. The he jokingly threatens to have his revenge if he ever gets his hand on the Infinity Gauntlet. What does this add? Realism in so far that, being thumped on the head by Wolverine would hurt far more than being thumped by the average person, and if the IG really existed, the people familiar with it, might think about using it.

Little aside stuff like that brings an extra measure of enjoyment to my reading it.

There are a few moments like that in Identity Crisis. (Green Arrow's hat and Batman's parents)

[Ax]

I'm looking for comics where girls fight.