OH, CRAP! [A Frightening Flashback of The Speculative 90s]

[CLA]

I noticed that the gentleman from Wizard believes that Valiant is making a comeback.

Let's see... What ruined the availability of comics and damaged the financial stability of fans? Speculators. It's true, comics are now a speculator market, but it isn't as bad now as it used to be. Wizard is gilded as a magazine for fans, but it is a very useful tool for speculators.

The Stages of The Consequences of Speculation in The 90s
1) People speculate, demand increases, the prices go sky high, publishing company over-produces comics to meet demand. 2) The fans refuse to pay the absurd $100.00 price tag, the price crashes down, demand decreases, speculator suffers because nobody will accept his price, fan suffers because he can't afford comic, company suffers because of the frozen market between speculator/fan, decrease in popularity and over-production. 3) Company cries, speculators cry, we cry.

So do we want to go back to that? Let's not. Let's try to pay the best and lowest price possible. We should get the most convenient deal that we can so nobody will get greedy and start pricing Valiant's in their original speculator prices of back then. Buying, like drinking, must be done responsibly.

[RyanMcLelland]

Is it really just 'some guy at Wizard speculating'?

I don't believe so.

If you go to alot of shows/conventions you can find Valiants at cheap prices still, but some dealers are starting to notice that there is some movement. They are starting to stock Valiants again. Does that mean that 'we', the people of this board, are all out in force buying these comics? Again, I don't believe so. I believe this is some general interest in the Pre-Unity books and that there are some who keep hearing about 'the great early days of Valiant'.

Look at the Overstreet top 10 that was recently published (and reshown here on the board). They listed Solar #1 as one of the top ten, along with stating that alot of the 'Shooter comics' have been finding interest.

I don't think it's speculation here that 'OOOOOOOH! The comics COULD be hot again!!!' This looks like general interest from the general public, other then those of us here on the board.

Should Wizard, in turn, place some Valiants back into their price guide? Well, if the comics are moving again, and at FAIR prices (who out there is actually paying more then 20 bucks for a Valiant book at a show!??!) then they aren't speculating. They are looking at the market, seeing what is going on, and thus changing their price guide to reflect changes.

I see that's what Ryan was doing over at Wizard. They see the changes and instead of barreling forth with 'PUT ALL THE VALIANTS IN THE GUIDE!' he actually came to us, the fans, to find out what should go back in the price guide, should they decide to put some books back in.

Everything comes full circle. Someone in another post put it best when they talked about who knew that TMNT or Thundercats or He-Man would be hot again!!! In 1994 the Transformers were DEAD and no one wanted to touch them. It could be Valiant's time to come full circle and shine once again and I for one welcome it. I'm ready for those out there who have never read those early days of Solar and Magnus to seek out these issues and find out what they missed. With Checker thinking about reprinting some of the Valiant comics in those bigazz TPB's they have, this can certainly draw up more interest. I for one would love a TPB of Magnus 1-12.

[Ax]

So do we want to go back to that? Let's not. Let's try to pay the best and lowest price possible. We should get the most convenient deal that we can so nobody will get greedy and start pricing Valiant's in their original speculator prices of back then. Buying, like drinking, must be done responsibly.

You've had years to buy your stinkin' comics. So don't be so self serving. How else are new people going to find out about Valiant unless there is renewed coverage of it in Wizard? Where is your sense of adventure?

[greg]

Both CLA and RyanMcLellan make good points...

Since they say that hindsight is 20/20...
Let's examine "just what it was that happened" in the 1990s.

In 1992, Wizard (and Overstreet) recognized a little surge for collecting
a little company called Valiant around the time of Unity (mid-1992).
Early 1991-92 books like Harbinger #1, Solar #10, Magnus #12...
couldn't be found at your local comic shop.
Wizard pointed this out, and of course, the prices went higher.

So... the "comic book community" also looked for one or two year old comics,
and couldn't find them... or when they found them, they cost $20, $50, or $100+.

The Wizard readership didn't generally have $20 because the Wizard readership
wasn't even generally 20 years old yet.
But the kids knew about Valiant. They knew what they wanted and couldn't get.

Quick Philosophy Question - for any publisher - for any time period:
Should brand new, regular issue, 30,000 to 60,000 print books cost $20, $50, or $100?
Not unless you recognize that they might not be able to sustain such prices.

So, when the "kids" who wanted the books couldn't find or afford the books,
they didn't get the books.

So, they settled on the next best thing... the newest Valiant books (1993).
Bloodshot #1, Turok #1, HARDCorps #1, Rai & The Future Force #9.

With everyone settling for these one-month-old books...
It looked like they were also much lower supply than demand. WRONG.
There were PLENTY of these 1993 Valiant books.
Some stores may have sold out, but across the country it was
not a situation where supply was too small for demand.

For a brief (oh, so brief) moment, it looked like the 1993 books MIGHT
be like those 1992 books, with prices going to $5, or even $10 right away.

But with the benefit of ZERO hindsight... that was a mistake.
Bloodshot #1 had 600,000 copies.
Turok #1 had 1,750,000 copies.

In fact, all of these brand-new 1992-1993 comic books
(Valiant, Image, DC, Marvel) started showing up "for sale" everywhere,
as people were ready to "cash in" on their six-month investments.

Prices across the board plummeted.
You couldn't get 10% back on your "new comic investment" at that point.

Should we have been upset? We are the ones who fell for it...
We didn't know how many copies of those books were out there.
We didn't even stop and ask... we just laid down our cash, and it was gone.

CUT TO 2004

We can look back at Valiant with the benefit of 10+ years experience.

You can't get "duped" into buying the "latest, greatest" Valiant tomorrow.
There are none. There hasn't been a Valiant comic since 1996.

The market will only sustain what it can sustain.
If Valiant is a "little blip" on the price guide map again...
will it be squashed by pre-Unity copies coming out of the woodwork?
Will prices across the board for Valiant fall again?
Or will it sustain $25 for Harbinger #1, or $15 for Solar #10?
I guess we'll wait and see. But it won't be because we all bought
multiple copies of the Valiant book that came out yesterday.
Yesterday was a decade ago.

[sonicdan]

Word!
DAN

[qrnd]

Im sure the next forthcoming comics boom will, once it ends, teach the exact same lessons to a new generation. Im also sure the dealers will fall into the same hype which forced the prices up back in Valiant's time.

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

You've had years to buy your stinkin' comics. So don't be so self serving. How else are new people going to find out about Valiant unless there is renewed coverage of it in Wizard? Where is your sense of adventure?

AMEN Bruthah!!!

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

But it won't be because we all bought
multiple copies of the Valiant book that came out yesterday.
Yesterday was a decade ago.

Wow. That line really hit me square across the eyes. I was THERE, buying multiple copies of *SQUEE* #6 and #7, Shadowman #8, Solar #14 and #15. I REMEMBER what it was like.

And it was a DECADE ago.

God I'm old.

[RyanMcLelland]

Yeah...I'm old too. Thing was I never bought doubles...I bought too many comics as it was to do the double thing.

It was all that Superman #75's fault...I had gotten out of comics and it PULLED ME BACK IN. Damn black cover with the bloody S....

[CLA]

You've had years to buy your stinkin' comics. So don't be so self serving. How else are new people going to find out about Valiant unless there is renewed coverage of it in Wizard? Where is your sense of adventure?

Thanks to the modern advancements of today, people can find out about Valiant in comic book forums, where they might communicate with people who are familiar to Valiant. Don't take my comment so personally, Ax. It's is my opinion. That's it. What I'm saying is not a fact.

Is it really just 'some guy at Wizard speculating'?

I don't believe so.

I didn't say that the gentleman from Wizard was speculating. The man is a writer and is doing his job.

By the way, I love Newsarama. Great content.

[ManofTheAtom]

With Checker thinking about reprinting some of the Valiant comics in those bigazz TPB's they have, this can certainly draw up more interest. I for one would love a TPB of Magnus 1-12.

Wow!!

Really?

I for one would buy them even though I already have all of VALIANT.

Where did you hear this?

Any idea when they might come out?

[dave]

i wanted to give another "real life example" of valiant being popular even among people who don't frequent the boards...i recently sold a magnus 0 on e-bay for close to $30. in the subsequent e-mails i asked her is she had been to this site, and she said she'd been looking for a site that listed all the books.

so here's another e-bayer-who is actively pursuing books, but doesn't even know about his site-just like most of us were at some point.

in the shops i go to-the person selling to me USUALLY looks at the books and smiles and says something like, "i remember these...i should pull all these issues out and read them again..."

again-people KEEPING their books. and wanting to READ them. it's cool.

greg-you should make some more shirts and this time the could say,
"it's a valiant thing-you wouldn't understand."

[R Daneel]

My first speculative experience was buying tons of Spiderman #1 ... this bagged edition, that bagged edition, UPC this, UPC that ... ugg. It would get muuuch worse though.

[lobo]

greg-you should make some more shirts and this time the could say,
"it's a valiant thing-you wouldn't understand."

How about a shirt that says:
'I gave up my first born for a XO 1/2 Gold!'

[DawgPhan]

i wanted to give another "real life example" of valiant being popular even among people who don't frequent the boards...i recently sold a magnus 0 on e-bay for close to $30. in the subsequent e-mails i asked her is she had been to this site, and she said she'd been looking for a site that listed all the books.

so here's another e-bayer-who is actively pursuing books, but doesn't even know about his site-just like most of us were at some point.

in the shops i go to-the person selling to me USUALLY looks at the books and smiles and says something like, "i remember these...i should pull all these issues out and read them again..."

again-people KEEPING their books. and wanting to READ them. it's cool.

greg-you should make some more shirts and this time the could say,
"it's a valiant thing-you wouldn't understand."

How could you "be looking for a site that listed all the books" and not be able to find this site. It amazes me that people can not use google. I jsut figured that everyone could bring up google and TYPE for they wanted to find in the little blank and click search...is it that hard...I mean I wanted information about valiant comics I typed valiant comics into google and found this site....how did she find that book on ebay if she cant use google? technology is becoming far to widespread for its own good....everyone can have broadband and wireless internet and they can not even check their own email....ok rant over....

[myron]

i wanted to give another "real life example" of valiant being popular even among people who don't frequent the boards...i recently sold a magnus 0 on e-bay for close to $30. in the subsequent e-mails i asked her is she had been to this site, and she said she'd been looking for a site that listed all the books.

so here's another e-bayer-who is actively pursuing books, but doesn't even know about his site-just like most of us were at some point.

in the shops i go to-the person selling to me USUALLY looks at the books and smiles and says something like, "i remember these...i should pull all these issues out and read them again..."

again-people KEEPING their books. and wanting to READ them. it's cool.

greg-you should make some more shirts and this time the could say,
"it's a valiant thing-you wouldn't understand."

How could you "be looking for a site that listed all the books" and not be able to find this site. It amazes me that people can not use google. I jsut figured that everyone could bring up google and TYPE for they wanted to find in the little blank and click search...is it that hard...I mean I wanted information about valiant comics I typed valiant comics into google and found this site....how did she find that book on ebay if she cant use google? technology is becoming far to widespread for its own good....everyone can have broadband and wireless internet and they can not even check their own email....ok rant over....

I agree Dawg...how could someone use e-bay and not be able to do an internet search...sounds like a load...

[jusdb]

I agree Dawg...how could someone use e-bay and not be able to do an internet search...sounds like a load...

you would be surprised...my father in law and mother in law frequent ebay for things like beanie babies and baseball cards, yet neither knows how to send an email attachment or update word documents stored on their computer. they actually print things out, mail them to my wife, she updates them w/whatever notes they send along and mails back a floppy w/the updated .doc.

true story......as strange as it sounds, i would say that 90% of ebayers are AOL users who know nothing about computers....90% ....

[DawgPhan]

Yeah but I would think that comic book collectors are a little more internet savy than you average beanie baby collector...though I know that you are right...people can get all this technology so easily yet they do not even know how to check their email...

[RyanWizard]

I'd like to say that I hope we never see a crash like we saw in the '90s again. I'm not trying to support speculation in the least. Valiant comics were off my radar and out of my mind and now I'm going to scour some freebie bins we have in the back to see what Valiant we have. I love reading comics. I work somewhere where I get to read comics anytime I want. I push comics on my girlfriend, my roomates, my friends - anyone who gives a damn. Everyone deserves to experience what only comics can give and Valiant is a part of that. If the prices go up, that's unfortunate, but hopefully it'll lead to collected editions and more fans. Who knows. Maybe no one will care.

[qrnd]

Yeah but I would think that comic book collectors are a little more internet savy than you average beanie baby collector...though I know that you are right...people can get all this technology so easily yet they do not even know how to check their email...

Based on some of the eBay auctions Ive seen lately, I would have to say a large part IS the same audience. While this may be good news for the seller, its terrible for the buyer.

[dino]

I'd like to say that I hope we never see a crash like we saw in the '90s again. I'm not trying to support speculation in the least. Valiant comics were off my radar and out of my mind and now I'm going to scour some freebie bins we have in the back to see what Valiant we have. I love reading comics. I work somewhere where I get to read comics anytime I want. I push comics on my girlfriend, my roomates, my friends - anyone who gives a damn. Everyone deserves to experience what only comics can give and Valiant is a part of that. If the prices go up, that's unfortunate, but hopefully it'll lead to collected editions and more fans. Who knows. Maybe no one will care.

If you guys at wizard have a few of those X-O 1/2 golds lying around you could push those on me if you wanted

I think your right on the money, no one wants a repeat of the speculation and eventual crash that happened in the 90s, hopefully enough people that were around then are still around now to clue in the rest and avert another crash. Actually, this is the sort of thing that is almost Wizard's responbility, as the leading publication on comics, to help. It would be nice if wizard did a retrospective of the speculation and its concequences for readers who weren't there.

[ex-collector]

Multipule covers of the 90s.... I fell for it too.

[ManofTheAtom]

Come on, Ryan, spill already

What have you heard about those Checker tps?

Spill the details

[x-omatic]

Come on, Ryan, spill already

What have you heard about those Checker tps?

Spill the details

Someone posted a link to thier site and asked boardmembers to email them about Valiant. I think they only expressed that others had asked and they had considered them in the past. Maybe if Wizard and Overstreet have more press they will move forward with reprinting something.

[ManofTheAtom]

oh