What if VEI "BrandNewDay-ed" Valiant?

steverino · Post by **steverino** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:40 pm

I'm not too worried about what path VEI takes on continuity and new storylines. I'm more worried that they'll never get past the TPB's.

VEI needs to make up their mind on whether they're going to do real comics or not. Until then....

etos45 · Post by **etos45** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:55 pm

iggy101us wrote:I don't think VEI can (or plan) to BND *VALIANT (1991-1996)* due to the HCs. They won't be able to BND starting from Unity either because A&A HC went past Unity. Well, they could but what's the point of the HCs then?

Personally, I don't think VEI should do a reboot. I am sure they can think of a creative way of addressing (or maybe just not addressing) the past.

I completely agree here. If VEI's plans were to do a total retcon then why are they bothering with the HCs and more importantly the new content in them? I also agree that picking up after Unity wouldn't work for the A&A reason.

As for a BND approach... they could do it, but I would hope they wouldn't. For one, it does make the HCs a little pointless because what are they changing in them and what's being "forgotten". My big complaint about BND (besides the being a HUGE Spider-man fan) is that it leaves the past far too fuzzy and it's hard to tell what really happened and what didn't. The "Just take MJ out of the picture" response changes everything. What about all the times that she was a story point? But I digress... Instead of past removal, why can't VEI pick up with X-O #69 (in theory) with a whatever hologram thing and just use selective memory on the past.... like what is always suggested.

I'm really hoping and praying that Playing God is going to be the route VEI uses to relaunch the titles. The story has been really good, seems to be picking up where VH1 left off, and looks to be offering an event that will make it so there is no need for a Solar anymore. Turok and Magnus can never be spoken of again (except maybe in DH crossovers) and with all luck it'll all play well.

The idea of letting Jack die and replacing him with one the the Acclaim Shadowmen (Mike LeRoi?).... would that work? If Shadowman dies destroying the Darque power... isn't that were Shadowman gets his power from? I've never read the Acclaim ones and I'll admit that my I haven't read VH1 Shadowman in a long time, so maybe I'm wrong on this.

leonmallett · Post by **leonmallett** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:22 pm

steverino wrote:I'm not too worried about what path VEI takes on continuity and new storylines. I'm more worried that they'll never get past the TPB's.

VEI needs to make up their mind on whether they're going to do real comics or not. Until then....

Quoted for agreement.

However, playing along: a 'soft' reboot makes the most sense in trying to build a new readership. Readers coming to (potential) new comic books won't have necessarily read what went before, even with the HC's since they sold what, a few K each? Therefore start sometime after the HC's, jettison the pointless adherence to real-time (each year that passes with VEI doing nothing new renders it increasingly a hindrance anyway). good stories are good stories whether told in pseudo-'real time' or otherwise.

Continiuity does not have to be slavishly adhered to ffrom the extent of the VH1 run, nor can it be, since the GK3 issue remains. Time is not absolute as long as time travel is shown to exist, therefore have a springboard but accept that things are not exactly as they were and proceed.

In fact simply proceeding with new comics irrespective of continuity would suit me. I am scaling back my DC and Marvel purchases and although some indies have been added in, so for someone like me it is a perfect time to launch a new (new-old) universe to add books to my diminishing pull list.

xodacia81 · Post by **xodacia81** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:26 pm

X-O HoboJoe wrote:
Cyberstrike wrote:I'm tied of retcons and reboots.

Is it too much to ask that we just have a great comics by great creators on time and reasonably priced?
Read Playing God! At least you're sure to get your money's worth.

Very true, especially since it's been HOW LONG since the LAST delayed issue?

X-O HoboJoe · Post by **X-O HoboJoe** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:36 pm

xodacia81 wrote:
X-O HoboJoe wrote:
Cyberstrike wrote:I'm tied of retcons and reboots.

Is it too much to ask that we just have a great comics by great creators on time and reasonably priced?
Read Playing God! At least you're sure to get your money's worth.
Very true, especially since it's been HOW LONG since the LAST delayed issue?

Totally my bad. To make it right, I'll give everyone a discount on the last 5 installments.

MoonChild · Post by **MoonChild** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:04 pm

2 good Points: Time Is NOT Absolute and Playing God Works well.

Daniel Jackson · Post by **Daniel Jackson** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:06 pm

X-O HoboJoe wrote:
xodacia81 wrote:
X-O HoboJoe wrote:
Cyberstrike wrote:I'm tied of retcons and reboots.

Is it too much to ask that we just have a great comics by great creators on time and reasonably priced?
Read Playing God! At least you're sure to get your money's worth.
Very true, especially since it's been HOW LONG since the LAST delayed issue?
Totally my bad. To make it right, I'll give everyone a discount on the last 5 installments.

Yay!

BloodOfHeroes · Post by **BloodOfHeroes** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:45 pm

X-O HoboJoe wrote: Totally my bad. To make it right, I'll give everyone a discount on the last 5 installments.

Congrats, Hobo! Your bailout request must have been approved!

Zaphod · Post by **Zaphod** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:01 pm

Cyberstrike wrote:I'm tied of retcons and reboots.

Is it too much to ask that we just have a great comics by great creators on time and reasonably priced?

Those 2 thoughts are not mutually exclusive. Please elaborate.

Elveen wrote:At this point for me, I would almost take any new books.

No. I understand the sentiment but no, you don't want that. If you think you do, go back and re-read POST Birthquake. I accept your apology in advance. Or go rewatch the Star Wars prequels because that is exactly what the Star Wars fans thought too.

TKWill wrote:I don't see a problem with pulling a BND on the VU. It has been 10 years since a book came out and 15+ since it all began. I just feel that is too much time to just pick up and try to explain the decade's worth of time that is missing. Sure there would be grumbling from many fans but you can't please everybody all of the time.

Exactly. There isn't going to be a right answer anyway you cut it.

iggy101us wrote:I don't think VEI can (or plan) to BND *VALIANT (1991-1996)* due to the HCs. They won't be able to BND starting from Unity either because A&A HC went past Unity. Well, they could but what's the point of the HCs then?

Moolah, Deniro, Greenbacks, Cash, Duckets, etc.

TKWill wrote:Phil can always just be Phil, but they would need a new title for the book. What would be a good alternate title for Phil's book.

"Man of the Atom"

The perfect way I see it playing out is the final HC release is a deluxe release of Unity with an new chapter at the end of it. In the end, Mothergod escapes her prison and whispers...

"No More Harbingers"

This occurs no more than 3 months before VEI releases its first monthy pamphlet, a 9 issue mini series which reboot/retools the VEI universe written by Shooter.

xodacia81 · Post by **xodacia81** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:42 pm

Zaphod wrote:
Cyberstrike wrote:I'm tied of retcons and reboots.

Is it too much to ask that we just have a great comics by great creators on time and reasonably priced?
Those 2 thoughts are not mutually exclusive. Please elaborate.

Elveen wrote:At this point for me, I would almost take any new books.
No. I understand the sentiment but no, you don't want that. If you think you do, go back and re-read POST Birthquake. I accept your apology in advance. Or go rewatch the Star Wars prequels because that is exactly what the Star Wars fans thought too.

TKWill wrote:I don't see a problem with pulling a BND on the VU. It has been 10 years since a book came out and 15+ since it all began. I just feel that is too much time to just pick up and try to explain the decade's worth of time that is missing. Sure there would be grumbling from many fans but you can't please everybody all of the time.
Exactly. There isn't going to be a right answer anyway you cut it.

iggy101us wrote:I don't think VEI can (or plan) to BND *VALIANT (1991-1996)* due to the HCs. They won't be able to BND starting from Unity either because A&A HC went past Unity. Well, they could but what's the point of the HCs then?
Moolah, Deniro, Greenbacks, Cash, Duckets, etc.

TKWill wrote:Phil can always just be Phil, but they would need a new title for the book. What would be a good alternate title for Phil's book.
"Man of the Atom"

The perfect way I see it playing out is the final HC release is a deluxe release of Unity with an new chapter at the end of it. In the end, Mothergod escapes her prison and whispers...

"No More Harbingers"

This occurs no more than 3 months before VEI releases its first monthy pamphlet, a 9 issue mini series which reboot/retools the VEI universe written by Shooter.

I'll have to think on the rest of it, but I believe that Shooter should be involved in some way with the new line. As for his authoring a reboot/retooling? I could dig it.

BloodOfHeroes · Post by **BloodOfHeroes** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:09 am

xodacia81 wrote:I'll have to think on the rest of it, but I believe that Shooter should be involved in some way with the new line. As for his authoring a reboot/retooling? I could dig it.

Shooter tried suggesting a reboot in his new A&A HC tale. It wasn't officially made a part of canon, but VEI released the script. Who knows what the future might bring?

etos45 · Post by **etos45** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:48 am

BloodOfHeroes wrote:
xodacia81 wrote:I'll have to think on the rest of it, but I believe that Shooter should be involved in some way with the new line. As for his authoring a reboot/retooling? I could dig it.
Shooter tried suggesting a reboot in his new A&A HC tale. It wasn't officially made a part of canon, but VEI released the script. Who knows what the future might bring?

And it might have worked had VEI used that in the HC as more than a bonus. The fact that they left out that part of the script shows that they have no intentions of a total Shooter retcon.

Cyberstrike · Post by **Cyberstrike** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:30 pm

Zaphod wrote:
Cyberstrike wrote:I'm tied of retcons and reboots.

Is it too much to ask that we just have a great comics by great creators on time and reasonably priced?
Those 2 thoughts are not mutually exclusive. Please elaborate.

Comics that simply don't rely PR stunts (like meeting real world polictal leaders or long dead characters coming back from the grave or killing popular characters off and ditching them in pocket universes) and on never-ending crossovers/events followed by more never-ending crossovers/events that features yet more never-ending crossovers/events WITHIN the main never-ending crossovers/event to tell a story.

I would like to comics written by comic book writers, not TV/movie writers and novelists that have so many other projects and can't make a deadline to save their life like Kevin Smith and Joss Whedon.

Reasonably priced keep a book at $3.50 or under.

Books that come out on time and not releasing 5 issues one year and having to wait year later #6 and beyond like The Ultimates and All Star Batman and Robin.

I understand the need for some retconning (i.e. the GK3 because that is essential) but I hope VEI at least respects the history of the Valiant Universe. Do they have to follow it religiously? Absolutely not but at least respect it.
If VEI wants to start over I have no problem with that but if they don't then they should IMHO embrace not only the good but the bad as well. I'm sick of the whole creators and publishers playing "selective memory" crap. Yeah I know that Valiant and Acclaim had a lot of crap but Dino and company should have known that when they bought the rights. If you can't use because the fans didn't like it or it's dumb idea (like the X-O bike or the Goat) then just don't use it, but don't pretend that they didn't happen that is insult to fans' intelligence.

God knows that they are things in my past that I'm not proud of and I have my fair share of bad times, but it's through the bad times that have helped make me who I'm today (for better or worse), so when you pull out a thread you end up destroying the tapestry. I think too many creators and publishers forget this. Either VEI learns from the mistakes of the past and don't repeat them or don't learn and they crash and burn.

I hope that explains my thinking.

b3studios · Post by **b3studios** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:35 pm

Cyberstrike wrote: or it's dumb idea (like the X-O bike or the Goat)

hey! that's a disservice to Vincent!

etos45 · Post by **etos45** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:50 pm

Cyberstrike wrote: I'm sick of the whole creators and publishers playing "selective memory" crap. Yeah I know that Valiant and Acclaim had a lot of crap but Dino and company should have known that when they bought the rights. If you can't use because the fans didn't like it or it's dumb idea (like the X-O bike or the Goat) then just don't use it, but don't pretend that they didn't happen that is insult to fans' intelligence.

I just wanted to say that I agree 100% with this statement and when I say "selective memory" I don't mean erase. I just mean that there's no real need to mention it again. Like the crazy cousin you keep locked in your closet.

I'm lucky enough to have not gotten anywhere near close enough in re-reading to find anything so bad that I think it needs to be erased... so I don't know if any of the really bad stuff had effects on characters that might give people the feeling that they need to "fix" it. An X-O bike and a goat don't seem all too serious of a problem to just not mention again, but still let exist in the past.... though, assuming VEI leaves out Acclaim then the goat still isn't a problem.

ian_house · Post by **ian_house** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:04 am

etos45 wrote:
Cyberstrike wrote: I'm sick of the whole creators and publishers playing "selective memory" crap. Yeah I know that Valiant and Acclaim had a lot of crap but Dino and company should have known that when they bought the rights. If you can't use because the fans didn't like it or it's dumb idea (like the X-O bike or the Goat) then just don't use it, but don't pretend that they didn't happen that is insult to fans' intelligence.
I just wanted to say that I agree 100% with this statement and when I say "selective memory" I don't mean erase. I just mean that there's no real need to mention it again. Like the crazy cousin you keep locked in your closet.

I'm lucky enough to have not gotten anywhere near close enough in re-reading to find anything so bad that I think it needs to be erased... so I don't know if any of the really bad stuff had effects on characters that might give people the feeling that they need to "fix" it. An X-O bike and a goat don't seem all too serious of a problem to just not mention again, but still let exist in the past.... though, assuming VEI leaves out Acclaim then the goat still isn't a problem.

WOW!!!! Step back from the comics with your hands in the air... leave the goat alone.

Nobody's going to 'forget' the goat.

RyanMcLelland · Post by **RyanMcLelland** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:35 am

I say they reboot and then amalgam characters together for even better stories. He was a Harbinger who was perfect at everything he did. After his mean parents tried to kill him he nearly died until Project: Rebirth took him. Awoken by a Geomancer he swears revenge on everyone...but first he's off to church.

ARCHERSHOT: This fall from Valiant.

...

You can all say it. I'm an *SQUEE*.

iggy101us · Post by **iggy101us** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:47 am

b3studios wrote:
Cyberstrike wrote: or it's dumb idea (like the X-O bike or the Goat)
hey! that's a disservice to Vincent!

New member VincentValiant

Daniel Jackson · Post by **Daniel Jackson** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:01 am

RyanMcLelland wrote:I say they reboot and then amalgam characters together for even better stories. He was a Harbinger who was perfect at everything he did. After his mean parents tried to kill him he nearly died until Project: Rebirth took him. Awoken by a Geomancer he swears revenge on everyone...but first he's off to church.

ARCHERSHOT: This fall from Valiant.

...

You can all say it. I'm an *SQUEE*.

Hmm....sounds like a plot for Deathmate II.......

geocarr · Post by **geocarr** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:01 am

etos45 wrote:Like the crazy cousin you keep locked in your closet.

Hey, I was that crazy cousin and it took me years to escape!

geocarr · Post by **geocarr** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:02 am

iggy101us wrote:
b3studios wrote:
Cyberstrike wrote: or it's dumb idea (like the X-O bike or the Goat)
hey! that's a disservice to Vincent!
New member VincentValiant

I'm all about sharing but I'm not telling you what I call my member.

iggy101us · Post by **iggy101us** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:06 am

enscott · Post by **enscott** » Tue May 05, 2009 11:20 am

TKWill wrote: What would be a good alternate title for Phil's book.

I'd use Seleski as a working title until VEI figures out something that won't get their pants sued off.

dave · Post by **dave** » Tue May 05, 2009 11:45 am

How about Seleski and Mrs Fluffypillows? I always thought she was an under developed character.

She could come back for revenge since phil ripped her head right off her body.