Unity vs. Secret Wars

xodacia81 · Post by **xodacia81** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:53 am

The Beyonder wrote:SWII ranks high for me on nostalgic value, but I'll admit, Unity is a better story.

Actually, Unity IS a story - Secret Wars was just a big fight scene!

Well put

yardstick · Post by **yardstick** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:36 pm

The Beyonder wrote:With a name and avatar like mine, I think it's safe to assume that I can't stand Secret Wars!

Not to pimp my upcoming site, but if anyone enjoyed Secret Wars II (all zero of you! ), I've started a petition asking Marvel to collect it - feel free to sign it, if you're interested!

http://www.secretwarsii.com/reprint_petition.htm

Oh, and yes, I'm fully aware of how exceedingly sad it is that I have a Secret Wars II fansite...

ok, which one of you guys created a second username and av, just to post this...

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:14 pm

No comparison.

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:22 pm

Let me elaborate....

As I said on the Podcast (plug, plug, plug), Unity is the single best designed, best planned, and best executed company wide crossover series of all time.

Yes, Infinity Gauntlet is fun. It's nowhere near the masterpiece that Unity is. Yes, Secret Wars sold toys. Yes, Legends had some fascinating concepts on the idea of "superhero." Yes, Invasion was goofy and fun.

But they are poor, pale shadows of the masterpiece that Unity is.

Unity is the culmination of a year and a half of plotting and planning, with the very last panel of Unity #1 leading right back to Magnus #0.

See, Unity isn't just "Unity #0-1, and chapters #1-18."

Unity is Solar #1. Rai #3. Magnus #12. Harbinger #4.

The entire universe was carefully crafted and designed to lead...incontrovertibly...to Unity. Unity wasn't just a "crossover" for the sake of a crossover. Unity was simply the climax of the various storylines that was already in progress.

No company has ever come close to such a well planned, well executed company wide crossover, where every component title plays an integral part in the wider story, before or since.

I was never a fan of Jim Shooter's work.........

....until Unity.

WHY is this the case...? WHY was Unity so successful...?

Well, you'll have to listen to the podcast for that.

Lightning Strike · Post by **Lightning Strike** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:48 pm

Knob wrote:I just read through Unity again and I love it every time. What are people's opinions on Shooter's work on Secret Wars? If I like Unity will I like Secret Wars? Would I recognize the same things I love about Unity and the pre-Unity Valiants in SW?

I started reading Marvel as a kid with The Infinity Gauntlet, I liked it and still do. How does Secret Wars compare to that? I'm thinking of picking up the somewhat recent trade as opposed to hunting down issues or finding a collected lot on ebay so any specific opinions on that collection vs. the actual issues are helpful too.

I absolutely LOVE Secret Wars (the first one only), but they are two different stories. But yeah, you should like Secret Wars.

Zaphod · Post by **Zaphod** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:57 pm

Secret Wars had a bit of a flimsy premise, sure, but I thought it was a great read. A god (above Galactus) decides to play Q (Marvel really should sue ST:TNG) and take the hero's and villians from a faraway planet...oh, yes and a force of nature: Galactus.

It pits them against each other, but Galactus is a villian of course and Magneto is a hero (because that was what was going on in X-Men those days)

so I can join in on the crapping all over that but the actual drama that occured in the rest of the story was actually quite well written. It doesn't touch Unity but you there were still some great moments. (it has been awhile since I read so this may not be entirely accurate)

-The aformentioned Spiderman tuning the X-Men
-Galactus attacking the Beyonder and being flicked away like a gnat
-The death of The Wasp (though the next issue they brought her back) at the hands of Wrecker and his crew was shocking and brutal and quite human the way they handled it. They hesitated to do the killing blow
-Colossus falling in love and feeling guilty for cheating on the missing Kitty Pryde
-The death of all of the hero's at the end of issue 11 and the sacrafice that brings them back in issue 12.
-The final battle against Doom
-Ben Grimm deciding to stay behind at the end, and remain on Battle World because he actually does finally get what he always wanted...to be human again.

Shooter did a good job considering what he was tasked to do and the limitations of it being Marvel.

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:58 pm

MProyas wrote:Secret Wars had a bit of a flimsy premise, sure, but I thought it was a great read. A god (above Galactus) .

more like a cosmic cube with delusions of grandeur

nutflush76 · Post by **nutflush76** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:24 pm

http://www.secretwarsii.com/reprint_petition.htm

Oh, and yes, I'm fully aware of how exceedingly sad it is that I have a Secret Wars II fansite...

As long as you are aware of it

BloodOfHeroes · Post by **BloodOfHeroes** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:58 pm

Secret Wars II--wasn't that where the Beyonder sported a jheri curl and dressed like Michael Jackson. Oh, THAT's worthy of a petition.

Dr. Solar · Post by **Dr. Solar** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:28 pm

ManofTheAtom wrote:
MProyas wrote:Secret Wars had a bit of a flimsy premise, sure, but I thought it was a great read. A god (above Galactus) .
more like a cosmic cube with delusions of grandeur

More like a mutant inhuman ;P

Eternalwarrior68 · Post by **Eternalwarrior68** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:00 pm

I liked secret wars, it was a cool mini series. SWII on the other had IMO was a waste and should never been made.

Did any of you buy the action figures?

I still own:

Captain America, Ironman, wolverine(silver claws), and Black costume spiderman.

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:52 am

Dr. Solar wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:
MProyas wrote:Secret Wars had a bit of a flimsy premise, sure, but I thought it was a great read. A god (above Galactus) .
more like a cosmic cube with delusions of grandeur
More like a mutant inhuman ;P

Oy

Darth Kramer · Post by **Darth Kramer** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:57 am

IMHO, Secret Wars is a good, fun superhero romp. It hasn't aged the best, but there are a bunch of classic moments in the book (Hulk vs. the mountain, Spidey gets the symbiote, Dr. Doom vs. Galactus). I think it should be read!

siren3-4 · Post by **siren3-4** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:15 am

Secret Wars got me into comics as a kid so I hold it near and dear to my heart . . .

Daniel Jackson · Post by **Daniel Jackson** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:26 am

Darth Kramer wrote:IMHO, Secret Wars is a good, fun superhero romp. It hasn't aged the best, but there are a bunch of classic moments in the book (Hulk vs. the mountain, Spidey gets the symbiote, Dr. Doom vs. Galactus). I think it should be read!

Hulk holding the mountain up is one of my favorite parts. I never cared much for Spidey in the black costume, but I guess it spawned Venom, so it was worth it.

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:23 pm

Well, frankly, I'm shocked. On a Valiant board, and SECRET WARS gets more love than Unity....?

Have y'all READ Secret Wars lately....?

Knob · Post by **Knob** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:32 pm

ZephyrWasHOT!! wrote:Well, frankly, I'm shocked. On a Valiant board, and SECRET WARS gets more love than Unity....?

Have y'all READ Secret Wars lately....?

I'll give you a nostalgia free review if I ever get around to reading SW. My Unity review is pretty much a 100% especially if you consider the entire pre-unity build up to it as some mentioned.

I just liked my latest read through so much I wondered if anything else Shooter did compared.

Cyberstrike · Post by **Cyberstrike** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:20 pm

Unity was a great story period, Secret Wars was just abyssmal by comparison.

etos45 · Post by **etos45** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:18 pm

ManofTheAtom wrote:I like Secret Wars a lot. I wouldn't compare it to Unity, though, it's good on its own merits.

Funny thing about SW is that it was done solely for the purpose of selling toys (Shooter made a deal with a toy company to make toys and then made a comic around them), but that has no bearing on the actual story.

When I read it the first time I had no idea about how it came to be (all that mattered was that it was a story with characters I like), so if you like the Marvel characters then you'll like the story too.

I agree with everything you say here. Secret Wars was a great comic series (especially with the Spidey black costume) and I also enjoyed the sequel. It is in no way Unity, but I don't think Marvel was ever capable (or ever with be) of making anything of the caliber of early Valiant.

As a side note, did anyone catch the Secret Wars III that was a Fantastic Four storyline? I think it was just one issue (Beyonder Vs Doom).

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:56 pm

etos45 wrote:As a side note, did anyone catch the Secret Wars III that was a Fantastic Four storyline? I think it was just one issue (Beyonder Vs Doom).

I never have, but I've heard that it's where it's revealed that the Beyonder was a Cosmic Cube. (and like everything else, I think it was an FU at Shooter, but I'm not sure since Englehart wrote it and he was involved in Shadowman. It may just be something I heard that lacks corroboration).

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:18 pm

Knob wrote:
ZephyrWasHOT!! wrote:Well, frankly, I'm shocked. On a Valiant board, and SECRET WARS gets more love than Unity....?

Have y'all READ Secret Wars lately....?
I'll give you a nostalgia free review if I ever get around to reading SW. My Unity review is pretty much a 100% especially if you consider the entire pre-unity build up to it as some mentioned.

I just liked my latest read through so much I wondered if anything else Shooter did compared.

The beauty of Unity....?

IT STILL HOLDS UP.

I read Byrne/Claremont's X-Men run for the very first time in 2004-2005....

...and aside from some nifty concepts and plots, to be honest, it was realllllly cheesy. Some of the dialogue was PAINFULLY crappy.

I can imagine, had I been a 10 year old when I first read them, I might have a different opinion of them.

Unity, though, I first read as a 20 year old.....and again as a 30 something year old....and it was just as good the second time around.

I've had a lot of criticism for Shooter's stuff over the years...Secret Wars, SW II, New Universe, Plasm, etc....but Unity is like magic. He was just ON, for a solid year and a half.

You can TELL that the guy had been working on this prolonged story (and I mean Magnus #0-Unity #1....and Rai #0) for YEARS.

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:20 pm

And seriously, I'm not a gusher...if I think something is crap, I'll tell you straight up....

Leatus IV · Post by **Leatus IV** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:46 pm

Draco wrote:Unity is still probably the best crossover in any company ever.

I have to second this....At the time no one had ever tried this and it tied EVERYTHING and everyone together....SW was ok,I actually read it awhile back and found it to be a slow read....Until CW,WWH and now SI Marvel IMO hadn't had a great "event" since Infinity Gauntlet.And for the record I don't mean Infinity War/Crusade....Those majorly sucked.

*SQUEE* · Post by ***SQUEE*** » Thu May 01, 2008 3:11 am

If they were movies then Unity would win the Oscar for best picture and Secret Wars would be a "popcorn" flick.

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Unity vs. Secret Wars

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