The age old question: which is better Marvel or DC?

[Dr. Solar]

I grew up a Marvel zombie, but right NOW, I'd have to choose DC. They're just putting out better, quality stories. You have no need to look further than Green Lantern for an example.

That's because if you look further than Green Lantern you will be severly disapointed . . .

I somewhat agree, but I think "severely disappointed" is a little severe to say. No more disappointed than one might be with Marvel, imo.

My DC pull list a year ago was Batman, Detective, Superman, Action, Wonder Woman, Flash, Justice League, Justice Society, 52, Green Lantern, and Green Lantern Corps.

Today, It is Green Lantern, GLC, and Countdown (I am in for the last bit of Countdown, because I came so far with it I might as well finish up plus it's on pre-order).

I wasn't severely disappointed, just not as interested as I was.

[Draco]

Wow!

Have the DC fans gone away or just not voted yet? Those are very different results from when I did this poll a while back...

http://www.valiantfans.com/forum/viewto ... 53&start=0

I'm still with Marvel for the time being and avoiding DC even though I was a lifelong DC fanboy before. I only get All Star Batman and Legion now (Miller and Shooter are always exception to any rule). No hard feelings with DC. I've collected their comics long enough to know if you don't like the direction they're going in now, just wait a few years and half of it will have never happened and all the characters will all have different backgrounds and personalities again. At DC, history is whatever the creative team is writing that month.

Enjoying the hell out of The Twelve, Captain America, Thor and Annihilation from Marvel. Looking forward to Secret Invasion since I've enjoyed their other crossovers.

You just described Marvel perfectly right there too

I'd have to disagree.

Sure Marvel does retcons. Reed Richards space ship is no longer the first manned space flight, Bucky was a little older with a higher rank in the 40s, etc. But all companies have retcons. And all companies also have creative teams that aren't aware of every issue done before them or writers who do "their take" on the character. Hell, Valiant published stories that completely contradicted issues published a year earlier in the same series! It's comics. It happens.

As a long time DC fan it is kind of refreshing to be able to pick up a Marvel comic from the 60s, 70s, 80s, etc and know they more or less happened in the current Marvel Universe. It's cool to see stories like the Captain America/Iron Man Civil War special that have the characters discussing actual adventures they had in old comics and not something the writer had to invent that month. I think I own one whole miniseries from Marvel that's no longer in continuity. Like I said, to me that's refreshing.

But DC has kind of a different approach where they very freely rewrite entire chunks of their past, rebooting entire series while others stay intact. And they do it...A LOT. As a result there's hundreds of DC comics I own form the post-Crisis 80s, 90s, that simply no longer exist in the current DCU. And I'm never quite sure what's "in"; if the heroes/villains in the current issues are acting out of character or if the background I knew about them has been retconed away. I can literally own hundreds of issues of a character published a few years back, including everything on their back story, and pick up a current DCU comic with them in it and not have a clue where they come from now.

And that's not to say that's always necessarily a bad approach to take. I thought Byrne got some incredible stories out of the Superman reboot of the 80s. Orstrander did so many retcons on Martian Manhunter and Specter that he practically rebooted both of them and I thought those characters were infinitely better for it. Unfortunately the mentality that allowed those stories to happen also lets them get wiped out very easily (the entire series of Martian Manhunter seemed to be "out of continuity" about a month after it was canceled! ). Reboots are fine but at some point someone needs to put their foot down and stick with one. I know I definitely don't wait with baited breath to see the next rebooting of Superman's past, restart of Legion, etc.

I like a lot of what you said here dude they are both equally guilty of the same tactics.
I have read or skimmed through nearly every continuity book by both companies from the last 30 years and i really do see them both doing it so i cant sway one way or another.

Im sure we could both pick moments that seem worse or that are worth comparing for the sake of the argument, however as i agree with most of what you pointed out i wont do that.

[siren3-4]

I grew up a Marvel zombie, but right NOW, I'd have to choose DC. They're just putting out better, quality stories. You have no need to look further than Green Lantern for an example.

That's because if you look further than Green Lantern you will be severly disapointed . . .

I somewhat agree, but I think "severely disappointed" is a little severe to say. No more disappointed than one might be with Marvel, imo.

My DC pull list a year ago was Batman, Detective, Superman, Action, Wonder Woman, Flash, Justice League, Justice Society, 52, Green Lantern, and Green Lantern Corps.

Today, It is Green Lantern, GLC, and Countdown (I am in for the last bit of Countdown, because I came so far with it I might as well finish up plus it's on pre-order).

I wasn't severely disappointed, just not as interested as I was.

I'm just being a PITA . . . and also being amazingly funny . . .

[Todd Luck]

True. One thing I left out of what I wrote is that Marvel seems generally more accessible than DC.

I would agree that Marvel is more accessible than DC to new readers but ONLY because Queseda is intent on relaunching each title every two to three years, which is not always a good thing.

If DC isn't assessible to new readers and confuses the crap out of (or alienate) old ones like me with endless serial reboots, retcons, etc; who the heck are they accessible to?

Restarting a title is more of a cosmetic thing and a marketing decision usually. It just means that they're beginning a new plotline usually with a new creative team. The new storyline will have some mild effort to orient new readers while picking up the few dangling subplots left by the last creative team. The story isn't really affected by the number on the book's cover or if they've slapped "new" on the title. It's just a marketing attempt to scream "Hey fanboy it's the beginning of a storyline/direction on this title!" and attract collectors. Though I suppose ending an ongoing title can be a nice way of drawing closure to a run and separating what the next guys do from it. But ultimately when it comes to new readers, good writing lets them orient themselves to a new title they pick up, not the number on the cover.

Don't recall seeing too much of that recently on ongoing titles. I know DC did a new Flash and JLA series after IC and Marvel recently relaunched Exiles, but that's all I can think of.

[Lightning Strike]

I grew up a Marvel zombie, but right NOW, I'd have to choose DC. They're just putting out better, quality stories. You have no need to look further than Green Lantern for an example.

That's because if you look further than Green Lantern you will be severly disapointed . . .

I disagree. There are many quality DC books available like GL, GLC, JSA, JLA, Booster Gold, Titans, Nightwing, Robin, etc.

[Todd Luck]

I grew up a Marvel zombie, but right NOW, I'd have to choose DC. They're just putting out better, quality stories. You have no need to look further than Green Lantern for an example.

That's because if you look further than Green Lantern you will be severly disapointed . . .

You don't like Shooter's Legion?

[BloodOfHeroes]

You don't like Shooter's Legion?

I DO! I DO!

Who's GL now? Hal again? The only GL I've ever like is Alan Scott. is he in JSA?

Once VEI starts releasing titles, I'll need a pull box and I'm sure I'll have to meet some kind of minimum to get things pulled. I figure I'll get Shooter's LSH, Nightwing, Hulk and any title with Alan Scott (in addition to VALIANT, of course).

[siren3-4]

I grew up a Marvel zombie, but right NOW, I'd have to choose DC. They're just putting out better, quality stories. You have no need to look further than Green Lantern for an example.

That's because if you look further than Green Lantern you will be severly disapointed . . .

You don't like Shooter's Legion?

I haven't read them yet . . .

[Chiclo]

Alan Scott is in the JSA, yes.

[BloodOfHeroes]

Alan Scott is in the JSA, yes.

Thanks, Chiclo!

[Cyberstrike]

You don't like Shooter's Legion?

I DO! I DO!

Who's GL now? Hal again? The only GL I've ever like is Alan Scott. is he in JSA?

I have to be honest out of all the GLs my favorite is Kyle Rayner, he was the most 3-dimesional of them, until Johns turned him into a drooling fanboy.
Alan Scott is OK but I found his kids more intersting though, Guy Garder I've never really cared for outside I Still Can't Believe It's Not the Justice League mini-series. Jon Stewart the only time that I liked Jon Stewart was in the Justice League and JLU TV series.

Hal Jordan I *SQUEE* HATE that character more than Batman, I have never cared for him in any series. He is the most boring character in the DCU and no matter who writes him he always seems to have the personality of a dead cat. The only time he was intertesing and I cared for him some what was when he was the Spectre.

[Lightning Strike]

True. One thing I left out of what I wrote is that Marvel seems generally more accessible than DC.

I would agree that Marvel is more accessible than DC to new readers but ONLY because Queseda is intent on relaunching each title every two to three years, which is not always a good thing.

If DC isn't assessible to new readers and confuses the crap out of (or alienate) old ones like me with endless serial reboots, retcons, etc; who the heck are they accessible to?

Well, to be clear, GL has never had any major retcons or reboots. They restarted the series twice now, which isn't that many times considering all the restarts that Marvel goes through.

[Todd Luck]

True. One thing I left out of what I wrote is that Marvel seems generally more accessible than DC.

I would agree that Marvel is more accessible than DC to new readers but ONLY because Queseda is intent on relaunching each title every two to three years, which is not always a good thing.

If DC isn't assessible to new readers and confuses the crap out of (or alienate) old ones like me with endless serial reboots, retcons, etc; who the heck are they accessible to?

Well, to be clear, GL has never had any major retcons or reboots. They restarted the series twice now, which isn't that many times considering all the restarts that Marvel goes through.

Wasn't Emerald Dawn and Emerald Dawn 2 a major retcon on many of the early stories? There were a few other retcons too like the shifting reasons for the yellow/wood impurities, but it's still less than what happened in other DC titles. What alienated me (and a lot of others) on Green Lantern was the overhaul they gave the titles present in the 90's (Emerald Twilight), but what happened to GL happened to a good many titles during the boom.

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

Wasn't Emerald Dawn .

I loves me some Emerald Dawn.....

[Lightning Strike]

True. One thing I left out of what I wrote is that Marvel seems generally more accessible than DC.

I would agree that Marvel is more accessible than DC to new readers but ONLY because Queseda is intent on relaunching each title every two to three years, which is not always a good thing.

If DC isn't assessible to new readers and confuses the crap out of (or alienate) old ones like me with endless serial reboots, retcons, etc; who the heck are they accessible to?

Well, to be clear, GL has never had any major retcons or reboots. They restarted the series twice now, which isn't that many times considering all the restarts that Marvel goes through.

Wasn't Emerald Dawn and Emerald Dawn 2 a major retcon on many of the early stories?

There were only minor retcons involving Hal and Sinestro, but nothing major.

[Lightning Strike]

Wasn't Emerald Dawn .

I loves me some Emerald Dawn.....

Me too. I dig Mark Bright's art

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

Wasn't Emerald Dawn .

I loves me some Emerald Dawn.....

Me too. I dig Mark Bright's art

Emerald Dawn #2 was one of the very first comics I bought at a grocery store...Pak n' Save, in Dublin, CA.

Couldn't find #1.

Paid $7 for it later on down the line...then paid about $1 for the other 9 copies.

ED #1 is very much an iconic book, with a STELLAR, STELLAR cover.

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

Heh....I said ED

[tarheelmarine]

You don't like Shooter's Legion?

I DO! I DO!

Who's GL now? Hal again? The only GL I've ever like is Alan Scott. is he in JSA?

I have to be honest out of all the GLs my favorite is Kyle Rayner, he was the most 3-dimesional of them, until Johns turned him into a drooling fanboy.
Alan Scott is OK but I found his kids more intersting though, Guy Garder I've never really cared for outside I Still Can't Believe It's Not the Justice League mini-series. Jon Stewart the only time that I liked Jon Stewart was in the Justice League and JLU TV series.

Hal Jordan I *SQUEE* HATE that character more than Batman, I have never cared for him in any series. He is the most boring character in the DCU and no matter who writes him he always seems to have the personality of a dead cat. The only time he was intertesing and I cared for him some what was when he was the Spectre.

I am with you. I detest Jordan. Kyle Rayner got me hooked to GL, he was a young GL with a personality for a new generation. I stopped being interested in GL when Jordan was brought back. I am looking forward to the day when Jordan goes away again (and his city).

[mavros]

Hal Jordan I *SQUEE* HATE that character more than Batman, I have never cared for him in any series. He is the most boring character in the DCU and no matter who writes him he always seems to have the personality of a dead cat. The only time he was intertesing and I cared for him some what was when he was the Spectre.

Hal Jordan as the Spectre was one of the concepts that brought me back to collecting. Loved the Spectre series by Ostrander. Hal Jordan was my favourite GL (saying that I'm not anti-Kyle).

Day of Judgement was great...but then the ongoing series? Ugh. Complete failure. Totally resolved any drama there was in the concept during the first story arc (Jordan struggling with the wrathful aspect of God) and then goes into complete New Age malarkey for the remainder of the series. Total and complete let down compared to Ostrander's run.

[superman-prime]

I came back to comics during rebirth and identity C
the new ideas and concepts dc started using brought me back to dc and later the big V

[Cyberstrike]

Wasn't Emerald Dawn .

I loves me some Emerald Dawn.....

I loves me some another Emerald Twlight for Hal Jordan.

Hal Jordan I *SQUEE* HATE that character more than Batman, I have never cared for him in any series. He is the most boring character in the DCU and no matter who writes him he always seems to have the personality of a dead cat. The only time he was intertesing and I cared for him some what was when he was the Spectre.

Hal Jordan as the Spectre was one of the concepts that brought me back to collecting. Loved the Spectre series by Ostrander. Hal Jordan was my favourite GL (saying that I'm not anti-Kyle).

Day of Judgement was great...but then the ongoing series? Ugh. Complete failure. Totally resolved any drama there was in the concept during the first story arc (Jordan struggling with the wrathful aspect of God) and then goes into complete New Age malarkey for the remainder of the series. Total and complete let down compared to Ostrander's run.

Jordan's Spectre was about forgiveness and redeeption not about vengence and Bibcal vs. moderen day justice. The only problem was when DeMantis wrote arcs over two issues they quickly became very predicable: a villian would make the Spectre over power Jordan. Jordan would whine about becoming Phallax. Jordan would eventually get his head out of his *SQUEE* and resolve it and beat the villian.
The single issues stories were much better, my favorite was The Silver Room (I think that was what it was called) about a vampire who locked himself in a silver room so he could pay for his sins, and The Spectre tells him at the end the woman that he bit and killed before she became a vampire had forgave him and all he had to do was to forgive himself to get into Heaven. The second best was where Abin-Sur's ghost is about to reborn and he doesn't want to go through the process and Jordan is torn to help his friend accept a new chance at life or lose his companship.

The only multi-parters that were any good was when the Spectre went to
Apokolips and confonted Darkseid over a lowely slave there and it ends
with Darksied sending her to a place worse than Apokolips...Earth, and where Sinseto came back as a demon like monster and at the end
he tells Jordan that he would rather spend eternity in Hell than ever accept
his help for redeemption.

[mavros]

Jordan's Spectre was about forgiveness and redeeption not about vengence and Bibcal vs. moderen day justice.

That was the problem! Forgiveness and redemption was the resolution to the conflict between the two characters and should have been the midpoint of the series (...I know it was an ongoing, so it would have been hard to tell the midpoint, but the first story arc is definitely not it...). Wrathful Spectre. Heroic Jordan.

We saw a bit of it in the first issue when he killed the old lady in the opening, but then that whole conflict is resolved. The writer should have dragged it out longer.

[Cyberstrike]

Jordan's Spectre was about forgiveness and redeeption not about vengence and Bibcal vs. moderen day justice.

That was the problem! Forgiveness and redemption was the resolution to the conflict between the two characters and should have been the midpoint of the series (...I know it was an ongoing, so it would have been hard to tell the midpoint, but the first story arc is definitely not it...). Wrathful Spectre. Heroic Jordan.

We saw a bit of it in the first issue when he killed the old lady in the opening, but then that whole conflict is resolved. The writer should have dragged it out longer.

But reading Jordan as whinning emo was far intersting.

Oh wait.

[mavros]