Will we ever get the official scoop on who VIP was/were?

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

I have been authorized by certain sources to reveal who ACTUALLY was VIP.....


<----------------------




I know, I was just as shocked as anyone. I SLEEP with those two!

[Geomancer]

I've sent an email to that address, too.

I think an answer would provide a bit of closure and help in the process of moving forward.

In any case, that Valiant is moving forward [finally] is the crucial thing.

Is closure needed? The dispute is resolved, apparently for the best, and in favour of the (apparently) most deserving party. Will not knowing who VIP were affect enjoyment of VEI product? I doubt it. Yeah, I am curious to know, and the circumstantial evidence remains pretty formidable, but it is just that - circumstantial. Surely closure is over-egging it - the situation is resolved so let us enjoy what goodies VEI can bring us.

I've mentioned the positives of just being able to look forward to a valiant revival.

So while I do agree with you on that, just looking at responses to this situation here and elsewhere, I stand by the statement that identifying the persons involved will help everyone get there. Perhaps most importantly, a credible response to all this would show who wasn't involved.

[Geomancer]

This thread is like someone finding out that an iceberg sunk the Titanic.

The Leaf cracks me up. He's been a member for 3 years, only has 115 posts.....but every now and again, he busts out with these well timed, pithy posts.....nice.

No, not really.

Unless the central question of this thread has been officially and clearly addressed somewhere else. If so, I'd be grateful for a link.

[ManofTheAtom]

I've sent an email to that address, too.

I think an answer would provide a bit of closure and help in the process of moving forward.

In any case, that Valiant is moving forward [finally] is the crucial thing.

Is closure needed? The dispute is resolved, apparently for the best, and in favour of the (apparently) most deserving party. Will not knowing who VIP were affect enjoyment of VEI product? I doubt it. Yeah, I am curious to know, and the circumstantial evidence remains pretty formidable, but it is just that - circumstantial. Surely closure is over-egging it - the situation is resolved so let us enjoy what goodies VEI can bring us.

I've mentioned the positives of just being able to look forward to a valiant revival.

But just looking at responses to this situation, I stand by the statement that identifying the persons involved will help everyone get there. Perhaps most importantly, a credible response to all this would show who wasn't involved.

Whoever VIP was, they had the money to frivolously hire Lovitz to represent them on an endevour that yielded zero results, other than whatever money they extortet out of VEI (which might have been enough to cover Lovitz' expenses, as well as yield them a profit).

Follow the money and you'll get the answer.

Unless Lovitz represented VIP contingent on getting paid from whatever they made out of VEI... in which case, Lovitz was involved in blackmail.

[xodacia81]

I've sent an email to that address, too.

I think an answer would provide a bit of closure and help in the process of moving forward.

In any case, that Valiant is moving forward [finally] is the crucial thing.

Is closure needed? The dispute is resolved, apparently for the best, and in favour of the (apparently) most deserving party. Will not knowing who VIP were affect enjoyment of VEI product? I doubt it. Yeah, I am curious to know, and the circumstantial evidence remains pretty formidable, but it is just that - circumstantial. Surely closure is over-egging it - the situation is resolved so let us enjoy what goodies VEI can bring us.

I've mentioned the positives of just being able to look forward to a valiant revival.

But just looking at responses to this situation, I stand by the statement that identifying the persons involved will help everyone get there. Perhaps most importantly, a credible response to all this would show who wasn't involved.

Whoever VIP was, they had the money to frivolously hire Lovitz to represent them on an endevour that yielded zero results, other than whatever money they extortet out of VEI (which might have been enough to cover Lovitz' expenses, as well as yield them a profit).

Follow the money and you'll get the answer.

Unless Lovitz represented VIP contingent on getting paid from whatever they made out of VEI... in which case, Lovitz was involved in blackmail.

An attorney involved in crooked deeds? Who has heard of such a thing? Why, that would be like politicians lying or the rain being wet. But, seriously, I think something is rotten in the state of Denmark. I'm just glad to have the VALIANT universe back on track for more exploration.

[greg]

We've had this discussion before.

Lovitz only appears to be a "high-powered" comic book attorney.

In reality, he only had ONE clear comic-book related client in 2005-2007.

[ManofTheAtom]

We've had this discussion before.

Lovitz only appears to be a "high-powered" comic book attorney.

In reality, he only had ONE clear comic-book related client in 2005-2007.

That's the sort of thing that should be sent to the comic book legends guy as part of the question, so he can take the evidence, present it to his sources, and find the answer.

[greg]

I just noticed "Deadly Hands of Kung Fu" mentioned in the article
about the Dynamic Forces (Dynamite Entertainment) hardcover
for George Perez's "first thirty years" of work.

So, DF mentioned Deadly Hands of Kung Fu, so what, right?

That's really no big deal, but I did like this comment at the bottom of the article:

"Dynamic Forces, Inc and all of its subsidiaries cannot guarantee the validity of the content."
http://www.dynamicforces.com/htmlfiles/ ... 3220728755

Let's see, Dynamic Forces, Inc, and all of its subsidiaries.

Would we like to name some possible candidates for that list of subsidiaries?

Dynamite Entertainment (not really a secret)
Re-Animator LLC
Savage Tales Entertainment
Fu Manchu Productions
Jungle Girl LLC
Classic Monsters LLC
Super Power Heroes LLC

... my guess is that Red Sonja LLC also belongs as a possibility:
http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site ... ewsLang=en
...since DF/DE is the only one publishing those books.

Gee, it seems like you can just make up a "front" for anything you're doing
and keep the identity 100% hidden behind a lawyer.
Must happen all the time in the comic world...
or does it just happen a few times from the same source?


Hmmm... what other LLC should we add to our list of possibilities...
can anyone think of any... maybe even one I overlooked from the chart.



(Evil Greg says, "ERIC KRAUS IS THE DEVIL!"
Apparently the devil also does home portaits, who knew?)

[Ryan]

I hate to jump to conclusions, but I think my conclusion is that Dynamic Forces = scum and bottom-feeders of the comic industry.

I did pick up that 0 issue of Project Superpowers where they use a bunch of Golden Age characters whose trademarks had lapsed or whatever, I didn't like it. I will promptly burn it

You'd think with all the time and energy they spend trying to steal other people's characters and names they could just come up with some of their own. Isn't that what making comics is all about

[superman-prime]

Dynamic forces =

[greg]

I hate to jump to conclusions, but I think my conclusion is that Dynamic Forces = scum and bottom-feeders of the comic industry.

I'd say you didn't jump. You took a while to decide, based on a variety of inputs.

Jumping to any conclusion is bad. Taking an informed view of a situation is good.

The conclusion might still be the same, but you can feel better about how you got there.

[Ryan]

I hate to jump to conclusions, but I think my conclusion is that Dynamic Forces = scum and bottom-feeders of the comic industry.

I'd say you didn't jump. You took a while to decide, based on a variety of inputs.

Jumping to any conclusion is bad. Taking an informed view of a situation is good.

The conclusion might still be the same, but you can feel better about how you got there.

The evidence does seem a tad overwhelming. The Jae Lee ashcan is the icing on the cake for me. Maybe someone can sue them for character hostage

[ManofTheAtom]

I hate to jump to conclusions, but I think my conclusion is that Dynamic Forces = scum and bottom-feeders of the comic industry.

I'd say you didn't jump. You took a while to decide, based on a variety of inputs.

Jumping to any conclusion is bad. Taking an informed view of a situation is good.

The conclusion might still be the same, but you can feel better about how you got there.

The evidence does seem a tad overwhelming. The Jae Lee ashcan is the icing on the cake for me. Maybe someone can sue them for character hostage

Well, VEI did sue, but they settled. That's one decision they made I disagree with, but they must have had their reasons.

[greg]

I hate to jump to conclusions, but I think my conclusion is that Dynamic Forces = scum and bottom-feeders of the comic industry.

I'd say you didn't jump. You took a while to decide, based on a variety of inputs.

Jumping to any conclusion is bad. Taking an informed view of a situation is good.

The conclusion might still be the same, but you can feel better about how you got there.

The evidence does seem a tad overwhelming. The Jae Lee ashcan is the icing on the cake for me. Maybe someone can sue them for character hostage

Well, VEI did sue, but they settled. That's one decision they made I disagree with, but they must have had their reasons.

Regardless of who VIP LLC was, the fact remains they were an LLC.
As a "limited liability corporation", they had little they could lose.
Settling as VEI did is the same as saying to VIP
"we'll just shut you down and take everything."

So, besides shutting VIP down and taking their trademark applications,
I'm not sure there was anything else to gain. LLC is legal protection.

It might be called "settling" in legal terms, but the reality is "VIP is dead".

I don't disagree with that outcome.

[cinlach@aol.com]

nor do i...speaking solely for myself i wouldn't have a dynamic forces product in my house under any circumstances.

i hate i actually paid money for that POS statue, and regret ever being an unknowing party to their shenanigans.

but as g.i. joe once said, "now you know, and knowing is half the battle."

[Chiclo]

We've had this discussion before.

Lovitz only appears to be a "high-powered" comic book attorney.

In reality, he only had ONE clear comic-book related client in 2005-2007.

That's the sort of thing that should be sent to the comic book legends guy as part of the question, so he can take the evidence, present it to his sources, and find the answer.

Greg, I was skeptical about Dynamic Forces. I had thought that VIP was the gutless lawyer (in this case, the word lawyer is intended as an insult) Lovitz acting on his own, but you've made your case as well as you ever have here.

Perhaps he was not acting alone.

[Brian Cronin]

Howdy folks.

I didn't want anyone to think I was ignoring the request.

First off, I think you guys are likely correct, and that Dynamic and VIP are, if not the same entity, are at least connected in some way.

That said, as an attorney, I've worked with Delaware LLCs in the past, and the situation is about what everyone thinks already - legally, the LLC is basically sealed. And there's really no one to "go to" with the very solid investigative work you guys have done, because everyone who could actually tell you, it would be against their interest to tell you (and in the case of Lovitz, it would actually be unethical for him to tell you). Nick Barrucci can give a definitive no because he knows that, even if he's not telling the truth, we can't prove it.

Delaware practically begs companies to use them for shell LLCs - they get paid for each one of them, and they protect them well, and since the purpose of this LLC is now defunct, there's never going to be a future opportunity for us to see them in action, to see what's what.

As some other poster mentioned, the only way we'd ever prove this (other than anonymous sources) is if someone acted against their own interests, which is pretty unlikely (to the point of near impossibility).

So I wouldn't be able to give this a "true" or a "false" for the column.

That said, I would be cool with doing a sort of Urban Legend Addendum, where I present "the case against Dynamic Forces," based on the information you guys have gathered, and at least present the facts, as they were (along with Barrucci's denials, of course) to the public, and let them decide for themselves.

I dunno if that would do any good, but I'd be willing to do it if you're interested.

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

This thread is like someone finding out that an iceberg sunk the Titanic.

The Leaf cracks me up. He's been a member for 3 years, only has 115 posts.....but every now and again, he busts out with these well timed, pithy posts.....nice.

No, not really.

So, The Leaf DOESN'T crack me up...?

Or, his post wasn't pithy and well timed....?

Cause the first is indisputable, as it's MY analysis of MY reaction....and the second is a matter of opinion.

So, where's the "no, not really" part come in....?

(I'm certain you're referring to Leaf's statement, but you quoted ME, so I cannot resist a response.)

Unless the central question of this thread has been officially and clearly addressed somewhere else. If so, I'd be grateful for a link.

You got the answer. The answer is this: VEI cannot comment. However, those "in the know" have stated, OFF THE RECORD, that VIP was, in fact, DF. No one will confirm or deny this publicly.

I certainly don't know for sure, and if I did, I wouldn't tell you.

It's entirely up to you whether you believe that or not, but you're certainly never going to get a better, clearer answer from VEI OR VIP, unless you get it "off the record" from someone in either camp.

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

I have been authorized by certain sources to reveal who ACTUALLY was VIP.....


<----------------------




I know, I was just as shocked as anyone. I SLEEP with those two!

Awwww, come on. That was funny!

[magnusr]

Thanks for the info.

/Magnus

[Geomancer]

So, The Leaf DOESN'T crack me up...?

I'm glad you enjoy his posts.

Or, his post wasn't pithy and well timed....? .

It was pithy, but the timing and relevance are what I personally disagree with. The question here was will we ever get an official response - for the record, now that that VEI has gotten over the legal hurdle. There have certainly been discussions of it, and well constructed ones

Cause the first is indisputable, as it's MY analysis of MY reaction....and the second is a matter of opinion.

So, where's the "no, not really" part come in....?

I wasn't referring to the first part. That really doesn't matter to me one way or another. The second is indeed a matter of opinion, and as to that we seem to disagree.

(I'm certain you're referring to Leaf's statement, but you quoted ME, so I cannot resist a response.)

I totally understand. i have the same compulsion.

[quote="geomancer]]Unless the central question of this thread has been officially and clearly addressed somewhere else. If so, I'd be grateful for a link.

You got the answer. The answer is this: VEI cannot comment. However, those "in the know" have stated, OFF THE RECORD, that VIP was, in fact, DF. No one will confirm or deny this publicly.

I certainly don't know for sure, and if I did, I wouldn't tell you.

It's entirely up to you whether you believe that or not, but you're certainly never going to get a better, clearer answer from VEI OR VIP, unless you get it "off the record" from someone in either camp.

[/quote]

I read the response by Brian Cronin myself, and am appreciative of it as I was of each and every post from those genuinely joining in the dicussion.

The "if I knew it I wouldn't tell you" comment is childish of you, but you seem to appreciate that sort of thing. Perhaps your version of pithy and well timed.

I thought I'd check and see what kind of answer I could get, so I opened a thread. I can accept that trolling or post padding responses will happen. But when I see them I will always point them out for what they are. Online or face to face.

I don't know what you are used to in here. I don't really care. But if I ask a question or get involved in a discussion and see comments that challenge or mock the discussion itself - I will respond the way I have every single time. Count on it.

[Geomancer]

Howdy folks.

I didn't want anyone to think I was ignoring the request.

First off, I think you guys are likely correct, and that Dynamic and VIP are, if not the same entity, are at least connected in some way.

That said, as an attorney, I've worked with Delaware LLCs in the past, and the situation is about what everyone thinks already - legally, the LLC is basically sealed. And there's really no one to "go to" with the very solid investigative work you guys have done, because everyone who could actually tell you, it would be against their interest to tell you (and in the case of Lovitz, it would actually be unethical for him to tell you). Nick Barrucci can give a definitive no because he knows that, even if he's not telling the truth, we can't prove it.

Delaware practically begs companies to use them for shell LLCs - they get paid for each one of them, and they protect them well, and since the purpose of this LLC is now defunct, there's never going to be a future opportunity for us to see them in action, to see what's what.

As some other poster mentioned, the only way we'd ever prove this (other than anonymous sources) is if someone acted against their own interests, which is pretty unlikely (to the point of near impossibility).

So I wouldn't be able to give this a "true" or a "false" for the column.

That said, I would be cool with doing a sort of Urban Legend Addendum, where I present "the case against Dynamic Forces," based on the information you guys have gathered, and at least present the facts, as they were (along with Barrucci's denials, of course) to the public, and let them decide for themselves.

I dunno if that would do any good, but I'd be willing to do it if you're interested.

Thank you for addressing the question Brian, your response is appreciated and I'm sure those who have taken the time to break down the issue and offer their analysis appreciate it even more.

I didn't provide any of the excellent analytical studies here - but it would be great to see you address the issue.

If as is generally suspected, the motives of VPI were shady - those kinds of business practices in the industry ought to be brought to light.

If their motives were good intentioned, they would have the opportunity to finally explain them.

[BloodOfHeroes]

Awwww, come on. That was funny!

I, for one, chose to let sleeping dogs lie...*



* PLEASE NOTE: I am not saying anything about the honesty or integrity of ZWH's canines.

[cinlach@aol.com]

I don't know what you are used to in here. I don't really care. But if I ask a question or get involved in a discussion and see comments that challenge or mock the discussion itself - I will respond the way I have every single time. Count on it.

Uh, I don't know you...perhaps you're the nicest dude on the face of the planet.

However.

You're talking to people who've been here since this board launched, and you're talking to them poorly.

You should care "what (we) are used to here", because it's helped make this community what it is, allowing folks like you to come any enjoy a great place to talk VALIANT, meet great folks, and generally have fun.

This is the culture WE have cultivated here. This is who we are. This is how we do things here.

There's always a slice of humor in most everything we do here, so I'd suggest relaxing a little, and understanding that it's just the atmosphere here.

We have mods who're more then willing, and much more then capable of doing what they need to in order to keep a thread going the direction they want.

So please...and I mean this in the absolute nicest way possible...lighten up a little.

[myron]

I don't know what you are used to in here. I don't really care. But if I ask a question or get involved in a discussion and see comments that challenge or mock the discussion itself - I will respond the way I have every single time. Count on it.

Uh, I don't know you...perhaps you're the nicest dude on the face of the planet.

However.

You're talking to people who've been here since this board launched, and you're talking to them poorly.

You should care "what (we) are used to here", because it's helped make this community what it is, allowing folks like you to come any enjoy a great place to talk VALIANT, meet great folks, and generally have fun.

This is the culture WE have cultivated here. This is who we are. This is how we do things here.

There's always a slice of humor in most everything we do here, so I'd suggest relaxing a little, and understanding that it's just the atmosphere here.

We have mods who're more then willing, and much more then capable of doing what they need to in order to keep a thread going the direction they want.

So please...and I mean this in the absolute nicest way possible...lighten up a little.

cin...always the voice of reason...