Valiantentertainment.com: What do you think???

[ManofTheAtom]

It was Valiant good. That much, I think can be said. IMO, however, even the pre-unity stuff doesn't hold up compared to the better stuff that is being put out now from most companies.

And that's a big problem with the new Valiant. Can they compete with some of the great comics that are on the shelves today?

This is not 1992 when all they had to compete with was the crap that Marvel and DC was putting out.

But it is 2008, when all they have to compete with is the crap that Marvel and DC is putting out.

[jedimarley]

It was Valiant good. That much, I think can be said. IMO, however, even the pre-unity stuff doesn't hold up compared to the better stuff that is being put out now from most companies.

And that's a big problem with the new Valiant. Can they compete with some of the great comics that are on the shelves today?

This is not 1992 when all they had to compete with was the crap that Marvel and DC was putting out.

But it is 2008, when all they have to compete with is the crap that Marvel and DC is putting out.

You haven't read what Kirkman has been putting out???

Right now?? Today?? Kirkman gets my money befor I spend it on anything new on the shelves.

[ManofTheAtom]

It was Valiant good. That much, I think can be said. IMO, however, even the pre-unity stuff doesn't hold up compared to the better stuff that is being put out now from most companies.

And that's a big problem with the new Valiant. Can they compete with some of the great comics that are on the shelves today?

This is not 1992 when all they had to compete with was the crap that Marvel and DC was putting out.

But it is 2008, when all they have to compete with is the crap that Marvel and DC is putting out.

You haven't read what Kirkman has been putting out???

Right now?? Today?? Kirkman gets my money befor I spend it on anything new on the shelves.

Walking Dead and Invincible are not DC, and Ultimate X-Men is not Marvel (as in, not representative of the whole).

DC is the multiverse, which they brought back to pander to 1960's fanboys, and Marvel is One More Day/Brand New Day (aka the desolution of Spider-Man's marriage), which was done to pander to 1970's fanboys.

Robert Kirkman is not reflective of that.

The very first thing that any new publisher needs to do is build a foundation.

Unlike publishers like Crossgen, VEI's foundation (aka the VALIANT Universe), already exists... all they have to do is put it out for new readers (as in, the current readers that were two years old when VALIANT first came out and are 12 now, or the readers that were six but are 16 now, and so on and so forth) to become acquantied with it.

The best tool at VEI's disposal to do this is the hardcovers, which not only offer a new printing of the original stories with new computer coloring, but also a new short story to make the product attractive to old readers AS WELL as be reflective of their intent.

With these new stories, VEI is saying "we respect what came before", and they can be interpreted to mean that they are not planning a reboot or a VH 2-style replacement.

VEI would be extremely foolish to waste resources on new stories that they hype as "important for the future of the VALIANT Universe" if they were planning to do a reboot or a VH 4.

Once their foundation is out (i.e. a series of hardcovers that print up to Unity), they can build their new future (which doesn't mean picking up after Unity. I'm only saying that they can stop collecting up to Unity BEFORE they release new material. After that they can continue to reprint the originals ALONGSIDE new material).

[Geomancer]

Kirkman - will be leaving Ultimate X-Men soon anyway. But even if he weren't, how would that relate to anything? I have nothing against the guy. In fact, I want to like his books - but so far there hasn't been anything put out that i can honestly say I have. I think what Kirkman or any other fan fave is putting out would be relevant if they had a line of books, not a series here or there.

In any case, for or against or neutral, you compete by providing something that isn't available or being significantly better at doing the same thing as everybody else.

In terms of a shared-universe line of superhero books, I don't see a lot of competition there.

The big kid on the block is Marvel and i am certain a fair number of them are looking for an alternative these days. Just as i was back in the early 90s.

There is DC, but aside from a few of their marquee characters, I think valiant could be instantly competitive with them.

But there is nothing on the market that provides what original Valiant did. I know this because if there were, I would be buying it right now. I have been looking since Birthquake. For the most part looking in vain. Only briefly did defiant, and later future Comics provide me with some hope.

[400yrs]

The HCs work to reintroduce the characters to a new audience without having to do a reboot, which would have accomplished the same exact thing but retold the story with a new plot, nothing more and nothing else.

So.... did it suceed in doing that? Was there a buzz in the comic world? If so, awesome. If not, why more hardcovers?

Because there is no collection available currently in stores,

Was there a demand that wasn't satisfied?

many would disagree that these are not good stories,

I never said these are not good stories. They were great stories for the 90s when there seriously wasn't much else out there with any content. That's not the case today. Yeah, there is a lot of crap still being put out, but there is also a ton of amazing stories being put out by Marvel, DC, Dark Horse, and indies. There really wasn't when Valiant became the apple of everybody's eye in the 90s....That's why it was so popular.

it creates talk about Harbinger and Valiant, introduces new readers to the stories, reintroduces old readers who haven't thought about valiant in a while to valiant etc

So.... did it suceed in doing that? Was there a buzz in the comic world? If so, awesome. If not, why more hardcovers?

[Geomancer]

I think I see what you are getting at.

But it may also be a bit soon to tell.

There has been one trade paperback released so far and that release was marred by the legal dispute in that normal channels of distribution were affected.

In any event, i agree that the release of a brand new issue #1 and re-entry into the marketplace would be a better time to gauge the current climate.

it is not a bad idea to start off by seeing what the reaction is from the established fanbase first - which i agree the TPB was marketed towards. Perhaps new fans checked it out. I don't where it was sold so that casual fans might have run across it.

As far as buzz goes, I'm not sure how you quantify that. Does that not have something to do with where each individual spends their time? I generally don't hear much buzz expect the usual from the big two.

I am curious to see how the launch of the X-O hardcover goes without any interference from legal concerns.

Editor in Chief and creative director will be the first real news that will make a major impact. Then the plans for completely new material.

Until then, these TPB reprints with a some new material is something to draw established fans back in and at least have something to help them familiarize themselves with the characters.

In terms of quality, I certainly think overall production qualities have improved. But in terms of story quality, there is very little out there right now that can better - except for small niche audiences for certain creators.

[greg]

Just a request... don't call hardcovers (HC)
trade paperbacks (TPB).

[400yrs]

In terms of a shared-universe line of superhero books, I don't see a lot of competition there.

But there is nothing on the market that provides what original Valiant did. I know this because if there were, I would be buying it right now. I have been looking since Birthquake. For the most part looking in vain. Only briefly did defiant, and later future Comics provide me with some hope.

These points are great ones and true as well. Marvel and DC are just too big and therefore, a lot of their stuff is too watered down to work as a single cohesive universe. I'm sure there are people out there who would love for a tightly-woven universe of comics. However, I can't really think of any companies that have lasted for a long while with this concept. Valiant didn't, Cross-gen, Broadway, Defiant, DHCGW didn't.

What all of these failures make me believe is that, although a tightly woven shared-universe is a very cool philosophy which is very attractive to some people (see MOTA), in the end, all that really matters is that good comics are put out, no matter the continuity.

Ironically, I think that the Kirkman Universe slowly being established at Image may be the closest thing to succesful. His three books (Invincible, Brit, and Wolf-Man) as well as Faerber's books (Noble Causes and Dynamo 5) and probably a few other Image titles exist in the same universe. But loosely. If they got all continuity crazy, it would probably go to crap as they tried to explain everything and I wouldn't enjoy it anymore.

As far as buzz goes, I'm not sure how you quantify that.

I didn't see much on the internet, in magazines, and nothing at all in any LCSs. That's how I'd "quantify" buzz. Very often, there is "buzz" about comics put out by companies outside of Marvel and DC.

IMO, VEI should be trying to create a buzz. A solicitation in Previews is the BARE minimum. Not all that many comic collectors get previews. And LCSs often just get what they usually get instead of taking risks on new items, especially an item with a $25 price tag. IMO, buzz often starts on the internet. Maybe we as valiant fans aren't doing enough to get it going. Maybe we aren't hitting enough web sites. Or maybe the $25 price tag is just too much of an obstacle for people to try something "new".

If the goal is to get these hardcovers into the hands of NEW readers, they should take out full page ads in Wizard or hell, in other comics. Yeah, let fly with the Wizard jokes, but whether you realize it or not, this is where a lot of comic "buzz" AND sales are generated. They should try and get an interview or story put into Wizard to get the word out. They should take out ads in other comic newspapers. They need to befriend these people and get them on board. Reach out to Mile High like Valiant did the first time around. Network and advertise to pull people in to your product.

Other than an announcement on Newsarama, I haven't really seen any type of advertising. So how are you going to get these HCs into the hands of new readers? Is that the goal? Or are they printing stuff to ensure that the properties are "used"?

I also don't understand the shrinkwrapping of the HCs. My copy was shrink-wrapped, not sure if they all were. If they aren't shrink-wrapped, people could open them up and take a look at what they might get for $25. The Harby HC was a great, quality product. I can't recall too many other items on shelves at LCSs or bookstores being shrink-wrapped.

I am curious to see how the launch of the X-O hardcover goes without any interference from legal concerns.

Me too.

In terms of quality, I certainly think overall production qualities have improved. But in terms of story quality, there is very little out there right now that can better - except for small niche audiences for certain creators.

If you are talking about a "shared-universe", I agree. However, if you are talking about just good stories in general, I'd vehemently disagree with you. I've been reading since the mid 80s and I've never seen as many quality comics as are out right now. Probably not as pretty looking as the 90s, mind you, but story-wise, there is great stuff out there from every company.

[Geomancer]

If you are talking about a "shared-universe", I agree. However, if you are talking about just good stories in general, I'd vehemently disagree with you. I've been reading since the mid 80s and I've never seen as many quality comics as are out right now. Probably not as pretty looking as the 90s, mind you, but story-wise, there is great stuff out there from every company.

No, I agree with you on that.

Comics have definitely expanded and there are a lot of high quality stories being told out there in many different genres.

[ManofTheAtom]

The HCs work to reintroduce the characters to a new audience without having to do a reboot, which would have accomplished the same exact thing but retold the story with a new plot, nothing more and nothing else.

So.... did it suceed in doing that? Was there a buzz in the comic world? If so, awesome. If not, why more hardcovers?

Once the hc comes out through Diamond, I think we can expect a bigger buzz than any that came with the previous distribution.

[BloodOfHeroes]

As far as buzz goes, I'm not sure how you quantify that.

I didn't see much on the internet, in magazines, and nothing at all in any LCSs. That's how I'd "quantify" buzz. Very often, there is "buzz" about comics put out by companies outside of Marvel and DC.

http://www.valiantentertainment.com/news.php

And now that the legal issues are behind us, I'm suspecting there'll be even more!

[400yrs]

http://www.valiantentertainment.com/news.php

And now that the legal issues are behind us, I'm suspecting there'll be even more!

There certainly needs to be.

[jedimarley]

In terms of quality, I certainly think overall production qualities have improved. But in terms of story quality, there is very little out there right now that can better - except for small niche audiences for certain creators.

If you are talking about a "shared-universe", I agree. However, if you are talking about just good stories in general, I'd vehemently disagree with you. I've been reading since the mid 80s and I've never seen as many quality comics as are out right now. Probably not as pretty looking as the 90s, mind you, but story-wise, there is great stuff out there from every company.

With that said. Keep in mind what each comic costs.
I'm spending $50 a month on new titles. I'm reading some of the best stories that I've ever read in 30 years of collecting.
But that's it. That's my budget for new comics.
If VIE wants my money they need to impress me. They need to give me some idea as to where they are going.
Give me a blockbuster announcement and I'll increase my comic budget or I'll drop some titles.

Come on guys...Give me something.

[BloodOfHeroes]

Would you sign up to be the captain of that ship?

Um, you DO remember where you're posting, right?

[BloodOfHeroes]

Bob Layton in the Wizard VALIANT special from 1994:



BoH, jumping out of the WayBack Machine now...

[Brother J]

The HCs work to reintroduce the characters to a new audience without having to do a reboot, which would have accomplished the same exact thing but retold the story with a new plot, nothing more and nothing else.

So.... did it suceed in doing that? Was there a buzz in the comic world? If so, awesome. If not, why more hardcovers?

Once the hc comes out through Diamond, I think we can expect a bigger buzz than any that came with the previous distribution.

I'd say some buzz has started with the listing in Diamond. I was asking a dealer today at a local show if he had any VALIANT, he said something about the demand rising on VALIANT books because of the hardcovers coming out. I mentioned I already had the Harbinger book, which shocked the guy. Then I explained to the guy where I got it and the circumstances behind the initial release. He had no idea the book was already available.

[ManofTheAtom]

The HCs work to reintroduce the characters to a new audience without having to do a reboot, which would have accomplished the same exact thing but retold the story with a new plot, nothing more and nothing else.

So.... did it suceed in doing that? Was there a buzz in the comic world? If so, awesome. If not, why more hardcovers?

Once the hc comes out through Diamond, I think we can expect a bigger buzz than any that came with the previous distribution.

I'd say some buzz has started with the listing in Diamond. I was asking a dealer today at a local show if he had any VALIANT, he said something about the demand rising on VALIANT books because of the hardcovers coming out. I mentioned I already had the Harbinger book, which shocked the guy. Then I explained to the guy where I got it and the circumstances behind the initial release. He had no idea the book was already available.

You (and everyone else) should help VEI put together a list of retailers (store name, address, phone number, owner's name, etc) so that this doesn't happen again.

The longer VEI's retailer databaseis, the less chance there is of them getting lost between the cracks if the problem with Diamond were to happen again.

Even working through Diamond, VEI can still use that list to keep retailers updated on their projects so they can order them through Diamond.

[Geomancer]

In terms of quality, I certainly think overall production qualities have improved. But in terms of story quality, there is very little out there right now that can better - except for small niche audiences for certain creators.

If you are talking about a "shared-universe", I agree. However, if you are talking about just good stories in general, I'd vehemently disagree with you. I've been reading since the mid 80s and I've never seen as many quality comics as are out right now. Probably not as pretty looking as the 90s, mind you, but story-wise, there is great stuff out there from every company.

With that said. Keep in mind what each comic costs.
I'm spending $50 a month on new titles. I'm reading some of the best stories that I've ever read in 30 years of collecting.
But that's it. That's my budget for new comics.
If VIE wants my money they need to impress me. They need to give me some idea as to where they are going.
Give me a blockbuster announcement and I'll increase my comic budget or I'll drop some titles.

Come on guys...Give me something.

With that, I wholeheartedly agree with where you are coming from.

In terms of budget, in the medium and long term they will still have to earn their share of it with quality product. Anyone browsing through the forum here can see that a good number of Valiant fans are not lacking for the original material and will want something new, or I should say completely new sooner rather than later.

But the key points made here by others are what make me feel very optimistic. They indicate a continuation of the earliest Valiant material and thats my top choice for what I've wanted to see for so long.

So, tough as it is, what we really need to see are their choices for EIC and creative director and hear from those individuals at least a rough outline of what else they will be publishing.

But based upon what has happened with the new Valiant up til now - they have earned my faith. As far as dollars go, then like you they will have to compete for it with a quality product. But if it provides for me what theoriginal valiant material did, then they will win that contest.

But in my case what matters is the cohesive line of titles with tight continuity.

[ManofTheAtom]

But in my case what matters is the cohesive line of titles with tight continuity.

Two things I've noticed since the site went live that are important for people on this board for VEI to do is keep the tight continuity and get the license to use Solar and Magnus again.

Given those two properties long term record, VALIANT is the best option for the rights holders to grant the license to.

[Geomancer]

But in my case what matters is the cohesive line of titles with tight continuity.

Two things I've noticed since the site went live that are important for people on this board for VEI to do is keep the tight continuity and get the license to use Solar and Magnus again.

Given those two properties long term record, VALIANT is the best option for the rights holders to grant the license to.

I notice you didn't include Turok and I agree with that too.

While for nostalgic reasons i would like to have seen him concluded, in terms of the universe he never seemed as central as the other two to me.

Realistically, his recent revival elsewhere makes him more unobtainable - and if that version of Turok were the one that would have to be printed, then completely unnecessary.

A revived Valiant universe with the valiant style of storytelling would be the best place for them, I agree. But even we are in the dark at the moment as to plans for that.

I'm really hoping they pull off securing these licenses.

[ManofTheAtom]

But in my case what matters is the cohesive line of titles with tight continuity.

Two things I've noticed since the site went live that are important for people on this board for VEI to do is keep the tight continuity and get the license to use Solar and Magnus again.

Given those two properties long term record, VALIANT is the best option for the rights holders to grant the license to.

I notice you didn't include Turok and I agree with that too.

While for nostalgic reasons i would like to have seen him concluded, in terms of the universe he never seemed as central as the other two to me.

Realistically, his recent revival elsewhere makes him more unobtainable - and if that version of Turok were the one that would have to be printed, then completely unnecessary.

A revived Valiant universe with the valiant style of storytelling would be the best place for them, I agree. But even we are in the dark at the moment as to plans for that.

I'm really hoping they pull off securing these licenses.

I didn't mention Turok because, in truth, no one else has expressed an interest in his revival as part of the VALIANT Universe, and because of the reasons you mention.

Personally, I want all three back, but that doesn't seem to be the consensus.

I feel confident that VEI can present a beneficial proposition to the rights owners, but before they do that they need to look after their own interests (i.e. set up an X-O Manowar movie and a Troublemakers cartoon or something like that).

[Daniel Jackson]

I wouldn't mind seeing Turok back, but I would want something more interesting than what Valiant did with the character. I actually enjoyed some aspects of what Acclaim did with Turok over what Valiant was doing.

[ManofTheAtom]

I wouldn't mind seeing Turok back, but I would want something more interesting than what Valiant did with the character. I actually enjoyed some aspects of what Acclaim did with Turok over what Valiant was doing.

Having recently re-read Turok, I thought that the stories were better the second time around than the first time.

I actually came to better appreciate them than before.

[Lightning Strike]

It was Valiant good. That much, I think can be said. IMO, however, even the pre-unity stuff doesn't hold up compared to the better stuff that is being put out now from most companies.

And that's a big problem with the new Valiant. Can they compete with some of the great comics that are on the shelves today?

This is not 1992 when all they had to compete with was the crap that Marvel and DC was putting out.

But it is 2008, when all they have to compete with is the crap that Marvel and DC is putting out.

You haven't read what Kirkman has been putting out???

Right now?? Today?? Kirkman gets my money befor I spend it on anything new on the shelves.

ditto

[Daniel Jackson]

I wouldn't mind seeing Turok back, but I would want something more interesting than what Valiant did with the character. I actually enjoyed some aspects of what Acclaim did with Turok over what Valiant was doing.

Having recently re-read Turok, I thought that the stories were better the second time around than the first time.

I actually came to better appreciate them than before.

They were alright, but nothing outstanding.