Spider-man: One More Day. Thoughts?

[siren3-4]

I loved the marriage, so I was against this from the start. The new status quo bothers me quite a bit.

What I really find bothering me is that Quesada had Peter, Marvel's most recognized and kid-friendly character, make a deal with the devil.

That's what bothered me the most as well. This flies against ALL continuity that the character of Peter Parker has built since it's conception.
Peter would NEVER, EVER make a deal with the devil, nor would he do so knowing that May herself would not want Peter to do it at the cost of his marriage.
Joe Q. should be ashamed of himself for ruining Marvel's flagship character. I shudder to think what Stan Lee and Steve Ditko think of this whole thing.

To be completely fair . . it was actually MJ that made the deal and then talked Peter into it . . . She's the rock and he's the follower in the relationship . . . well . . former relationship . .

[Chiclo]

Joe Q. should be ashamed of himself for ruining Marvel's flagship character. I shudder to think what Stan Lee and Steve Ditko think of this whole thing.

Will, given that the marriage was created by Stan Lee and heralded into comics by Jim Shooter, I think it's obvious that neither of them would agree that this is a good move, and that neither of them are HALF the comics savant that Joe Q. is.

I mean, let's look at all the INCREDIBLE characters that Joe Q has created...

Er, let's skip that and review all of the DEFINING character arcs he's written...

Er, uh...

He draws a pretty mean Ninjak! That has to count for something when it comes to writing Spidey, right?

No?

Then I've got nothing.

Painkiller Jane

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

Joe Q. should be ashamed of himself for ruining Marvel's flagship character. I shudder to think what Stan Lee and Steve Ditko think of this whole thing.

Will, given that the marriage was created by Stan Lee and heralded into comics by Jim Shooter, I think it's obvious that neither of them would agree that this is a good move, and that neither of them are HALF the comics savant that Joe Q. is.

I mean, let's look at all the INCREDIBLE characters that Joe Q has created...

Er, let's skip that and review all of the DEFINING character arcs he's written...

Er, uh...

He draws a pretty mean Ninjak! That has to count for something when it comes to writing Spidey, right?

No?

Then I've got nothing.

Dude! How can you forget KID DEATH??

[Chiclo]

Joe Q. should be ashamed of himself for ruining Marvel's flagship character. I shudder to think what Stan Lee and Steve Ditko think of this whole thing.

Will, given that the marriage was created by Stan Lee and heralded into comics by Jim Shooter, I think it's obvious that neither of them would agree that this is a good move, and that neither of them are HALF the comics savant that Joe Q. is.

I mean, let's look at all the INCREDIBLE characters that Joe Q has created...

Er, let's skip that and review all of the DEFINING character arcs he's written...

Er, uh...

He draws a pretty mean Ninjak! That has to count for something when it comes to writing Spidey, right?

No?

Then I've got nothing.

Dude! How can you forget KID DEATH??

Oblivion's herald from Quasar that tried to haul him off in an Infinity War crossover after he got blased with the Ultimate Nullifier?

Maybe that's Kid Reaper.

[Heath]

So I finally actually read the last chapter of OMD a day or two ago.

I never wanted to shred a comic book so much in my life. I'm totally disgusted by the whole mess. What makes it so bad is that there is no good way out of this.

I've already ordered Amazing Spider-Man through February, but it ends for me there. I'm not placing any more orders for future issues until things are put back right.

[Escaflown4]

So I finally actually read the last chapter of OMD a day or two ago.

I never wanted to shred a comic book so much in my life. I'm totally disgusted by the whole mess. What makes it so bad is that there is no good way out of this.

I've already ordered Amazing Spider-Man through February, but it ends for me there. I'm not placing any more orders for future issues until things are put back right.

Unfortunately as long as Joey Q still sits behind Marvel's EIC desk, things will never be put back right.

[siren3-4]

Aunt May finding out about Peter being Spider-Man is one of the stories that really got me back into reading Spidey again . . .

How can they throw that away . . . it was so well done . . . I love those issues . . .

For some reason Mephisto erased EVERYONE's knowledge that Peter was Spidey...

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=141756

Even better, all the events where people discovered Peter's ID apparently happened but no can remember what his ID is now.

So all those stories happened, they just no longer any sense if any of the characters think about them. LOL

As an old DC reader this all sounds sadly familar. At some point Dr. Light will rape MJ to get revenge on Spidey while the multiverse returns for the second time (even though no one remembers the first time) and we'll discover Spidey is really in the DCU.

In case people don't feel like clicking the link . . : (JMS letter to Newsarama)

Having seen Joe's third interview on OMD, I think he raised a lot of fair issues. I think most of it represents accurately our conversations. It does, however, omit some of the main concerns I had with the resolution...concerns not mentioned therein, most probably as an oversight. As you know from my prior email, I was content not to respond to the prior interviews because I don't need to have the last word. (Newsarama Note: this last was in reference to Straczynski’s earlier e-mail mentioned earlier in which he declined a “One More Day” post mortem conversation.)

But there are some vital omissions in the interview, including the primary reason I finally threw up my hands on the book, which had mainly to do with how the resolution was handled.

To explain, here's the conversation I had with Marvel, in sum:

"So what does Mephisto do?" I ask.

"He makes everybody forget Peter's Spider-Man."

"Uh, huh. So Aunt May's still in the hospital --"

"No, he saves Aunt May."

"But if all he does is save her life and make everybody forget he's Spidey, she still has a scar on her midsection."

"No, he makes that go away too."

"Okay...:

"Then he wakes up in her house."

"The house that was burned down?"

"Right."

"But how --"

"Mephisto undoes that as well."

"Okay. And the guys who shot at Peter and May and were killed, they're alive too? Mephisto can bring guys back from the dead?"

"It's all part of the spell."

"And Doc Strange can't tell?"

"No,"

"And the newspaper articles? News footage?"

"Joe, it's been forgotten."

"I'm just asking is that stuff there or not there?"

"Not there. And Peter's web shooters are back."

"Is this the same spell or a different spell?"

"Same spell."

"How does making people forget he's Spidey bring back his web shooters?"

"It's magic, okay?"

"I see. And Harry's back."

"Right."

"And Mephisto does this too."

"Yep."

"So is Harry back from the dead, or has he been alive? If they ask him, hey Harry, what did you do last summer, will he remember? And the year before? And the year before? If he says they all went on a picnic two years ago, will they remember it?"

"It's --"

"Because if he now has a life he remembers, if he's not back from the dead, then you've changed the continuity you said you didn't want to change. Those are your only options: he was brought back from the dead, and there's a grave, and people remember him dying --"

"Mephisto changes THEIR memories too."

"-- or he's effectively been alive as far as our characters know, so he's been alive all along, so either way as far as our characters are concerned, continuity's been violated going back to 1971.

How do you explain that?"

"It's magic, we don't have to explain it."

And that's the part I had a real problem with, maybe the single biggest problem. There's this notion that magic fixes everything. It doesn't. "It's magic, we don't have to explain it." Well, actually, yes, you do. Magic has to have rules. And this is clearly not just a case of one spell making everybody forget he's Spidey...suddenly you're bringing back the dead, undoing wounds, erasing records, reinstating web shooters, on and on and on.

What I wanted to do was to make one small change to history, a tiny thing, whose ripples we could control to only touch what editorial wanted to touch, making changes we could explain logically. I worked for weeks to come up with a timeline that would leave every other bit of continuity in place. It was rigorous, and as logical as I could make it. In the end of OMD as published, Harry is alive and he's always been alive as far as the characters know...so how is that different than he was alive the whole time?

It made no sense to me.

Still doesn't. It's sloppy. It violates every rule of writing fiction of the fantastic that I and every other SF/Fantasy writer knows you can't violate. It's fantasy 101.

It troubled me that it's MJ and not Peter who is the one to actively make the decision.

I'd originally written the first issue of OMD to take place directly after May gets shot, and in fact turned in the first script directly after she gets nailed. Editorial decided to build in a block of issues for One More Day...meaning May would be in that bed for almost a *year* which I thought was just too long to make work.

And yes, I wanted to retcon the Gwen twins out of continuity, which was something I always assumed I could do at the end of my run. I wasn't allowed to do this, and yes, it *SQUEE* me off. I felt I was left holding the bag for something I wanted to get rid of, and taking the rap for a writing lapse that I had never committed. Why this aspect was not brought up in the other interview, you'd have to ask Joe.

Mainly, the book was rewritten in the editorial offices to a degree that the words weren't mine any longer, to a certain degree in three, and massively in four. If the work represents me, I leave the name there and take the rap; if it doesn't, then that's a different situation. There's just not much of my work there, especially once you get to the last dong of midnight...everything after that was written by editorial.

Whether my work is good or it sucks, it's mine. What came out of the end of OMD wasn't, hence my desire to omit the writing credit. Joe graciously offered to share it on the last issue. I think that helped. Credit where credit is due.

What I don't want is for this to turn into a public *SQUEE* match. Joe did what he did because he thought it was the right thing to do, and as EIC that's his call, not mine. I respect and admire him. I hope this will be the end of the matter.

I just felt that there were some important bits not addressed, that needed to be.

Man that's frustrating . . .

[Dr. Solar]

Man that's frustrating . . .

No, it's magic.

[Lightning Strike]

Joe Q. should be ashamed of himself for ruining Marvel's flagship character. I shudder to think what Stan Lee and Steve Ditko think of this whole thing.

Will, given that the marriage was created by Stan Lee and heralded into comics by Jim Shooter, I think it's obvious that neither of them would agree that this is a good move, and that neither of them are HALF the comics savant that Joe Q. is.

I mean, let's look at all the INCREDIBLE characters that Joe Q has created...

Er, let's skip that and review all of the DEFINING character arcs he's written...

Er, uh...

He draws a pretty mean Ninjak! That has to count for something when it comes to writing Spidey, right?

No?

Then I've got nothing.

[Lightning Strike]

I loved the marriage, so I was against this from the start. The new status quo bothers me quite a bit.

What I really find bothering me is that Quesada had Peter, Marvel's most recognized and kid-friendly character, make a deal with the devil.

That's what bothered me the most as well. This flies against ALL continuity that the character of Peter Parker has built since it's conception.
Peter would NEVER, EVER make a deal with the devil, nor would he do so knowing that May herself would not want Peter to do it at the cost of his marriage.
Joe Q. should be ashamed of himself for ruining Marvel's flagship character. I shudder to think what Stan Lee and Steve Ditko think of this whole thing.

To be completely fair . . it was actually MJ that made the deal and then talked Peter into it . . . She's the rock and he's the follower in the relationship . . . well . . former relationship . .

BUT PETER AGREED TO THE DEAL. Mephisto even said he needed Peter's agreement as well as MJ's or he couldn't do it.

[Lightning Strike]

Man that's frustrating . . .

No, it's magic.

stupid Marvel

[Dr. Solar]

Man that's frustrating . . .

No, it's magic.

stupid Marvel

I really hope that people vote with their wallets with this one, and make Spider-Man sales plumet. This is what will really make a difference. If people keep buying Spider-Man, then all that will happen is that Joe Q will be proved right.

[Lightning Strike]

Man that's frustrating . . .

No, it's magic.

stupid Marvel

I really hope that people vote with their wallets with this one, and make Spider-Man sales plumet. This is what will really make a difference. If people keep buying Spider-Man, then all that will happen is that Joe Q will be proved right.

Yep. If fans don't like it, stop buying the book and make Marvel pay for what they've done.

[Todd Luck]

Man that's frustrating . . .

No, it's magic.

stupid Marvel

I really hope that people vote with their wallets with this one, and make Spider-Man sales plumet. This is what will really make a difference. If people keep buying Spider-Man, then all that will happen is that Joe Q will be proved right.

Yep. If fans don't like it, stop buying the book and make Marvel pay for what they've done.

Without JMS (and Peter David on the other title) I would think sales would drop anyway. You add to that the requirement of buying three Spidey titles a month (that's nine bucks a month!), which just sounds like a hard sale to me (I mean Acclaim tanked just asking everyone to buy their titles twice a month) I would shocked if sales didn't drop. I mean shops may boost their order for the first month or two of BND becasue it's a new hyped "jumping on point" but after that I would expect to see a serious difference in Amazing's sales. Maybe if sales plummet really, really bad that'll let them know something?

[Byrneout]

Man that's frustrating . . .

No, it's magic.

stupid Marvel

I really hope that people vote with their wallets with this one, and make Spider-Man sales plumet. This is what will really make a difference. If people keep buying Spider-Man, then all that will happen is that Joe Q will be proved right.

Yep. If fans don't like it, stop buying the book and make Marvel pay for what they've done.

Without JMS (and Peter David on the other title) I would think sales would drop anyway. You add to that the requirement of buying three Spidey titles a month (that's nine bucks a month!), which just sounds like a hard sale to me (I mean Acclaim tanked just asking everyone to buy their titles twice a month) I would shocked if sales didn't drop. I mean shops may boost their order for the first month or two of BND becasue it's a new hyped "jumping on point" but after that I would expect to see a serious difference in Amazing's sales. Maybe if sales plummet really, really bad that'll let them know something?

I recommend that everyone dropping Spider-Man pick up Spider-Girl. If they see a downshift in the core Spidey title, but an upshift in the one where he is happily married... well....

[superman-prime]

This was my last issue as well, i was going to quit a few back but, wanted to see the ending, it bit 3 titles a month (with marvels shipping about 1 anyway)
im done after Konquest and dark tower 2, with all marval titles for a while

[Heath]

This was my last issue as well, i was going to quit a few back but, wanted to see the ending

I wish I had quit a few issues back and never read this damned story...
Several years of loving ASM flushed down the toilet...
Thanks Marvel.

[BloodOfHeroes]

Am I the only one to think 'This too shall pass'?

BoH

[BloodOfHeroes]

I recommend that everyone dropping Spider-Man pick up Spider-Girl. If they see a downshift in the core Spidey title, but an upshift in the one where he is happily married... well....

I'd suspect that as long as sales remain steady for Marvel, no one'll care. If this retcon sticks, it seems its designed for new readers, anyway, which will take years to attract. I suspect that JoeyQ & Co have predicted a slight sales slump, but I've found that many comic readers buy their titles/characters, period. I don't think that anything short of a massive company-wide boycott would influence anyone. And I wonder if even that'd work.



BoH

[myron]

Am I the only one to think 'This too shall pass'?

BoH

what, like some kind of kidney stone?

[Heath]

Am I the only one to think 'This too shall pass'?

BoH

Yeah, it will eventually. And when it does, I'll be back. But not until then.

[Lightning Strike]

Am I the only one to think 'This too shall pass'?

BoH

Yeah, it will eventually. And when it does, I'll be back. But not until then.

Not until Joe Q. is gone

[Escaflown4]

I'm not sure how this can pass easily. You're talking about long time loyal fans who are already used to Peter being married for over 20 years. 20+ years! Seriously, how many new readers you do know are getting into comics nowadays? A more better question is, how many more blunders does it take to get Joe Q fired from Marvel? From Sins Past to revealing his identity to wiping out 20+ years of Spidey's history, there have been no one else that did this kinda damage to Marvel's top icon period. Besides Uncanny X-Men, I have dropped all remaining Marvel titles off my monthly comic list. As long as Joe Q is EIC, I just can't bring myself to read anymore crap edited by him.

[BloodOfHeroes]

"Damage" is a bit strong. I think it'll pass, because I think it's a sales gimmick. There are lots of "Escape clauses" built into the story, from what I've read.

But Marvel seems to be doing really well right now. JoeyQ seems, to me, to be safe for some time to come. Few to no blunders, as far as the stockholders are concerned, I'm sure. If he makes 'em money (And controversy is good for cash flow, at least in funnybooks), he'll be around for a while to come.

After the horrible ending to the Clone Wars, I sent Marvel a letter and boycotted their stuff, with the exception of the Sean Chen-pencilled titles (I'm behind on his Nova issues, admittedly). I guess I sure showed them, huh?

BoH

[Lightning Strike]

I'm not sure how this can pass easily. You're talking about long time loyal fans who are already used to Peter being married for over 20 years. 20+ years! Seriously, how many new readers you do know are getting into comics nowadays? A more better question is, how many more blunders does it take to get Joe Q fired from Marvel? From Sins Past to revealing his identity to wiping out 20+ years of Spidey's history, there have been no one else that did this kinda damage to Marvel's top icon period. Besides Uncanny X-Men, I have dropped all remaining Marvel titles off my monthly comic list. As long as Joe Q is EIC, I just can't bring myself to read anymore crap edited by him.

I have slowly, but surely widdled down my Marvel pull list. And at the same time, I've increased my DC pull list, which says the direction the way the companies are going.

If you told me five years ago that I wouldn't be buying Captain America every month I would have told you that you were crazy. I was a faithful and loyal Cap fan for over 20 years, missing only a few issues over that entire span.

IMO, Marvel has ruined the book. They brought Bucky back from the dead, killed Cap and they have Fury in hiding and on the run from SHIELD. Am I in the Twilight Zone or something??

Is this really what Cap fans want? Do they really want to read about another character instead of the one who the book is named after?