Spider-man: One More Day. Thoughts?

Todd Luck · Post by **Todd Luck** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:33 pm

depluto wrote:I guess I can understand some of the reasoning ... not wanting to kill off MJ or explain to kids why Spidey is divorced. But it's still not tied off well.

I think long-time readers are going to feel pretty queasy the first time Pete dry-humps some floozy he met in the supermarket.

LOL So did you get queezy a lot a few years back during the Peter/MJ seperation? I mean, they already killed her and had them split back in the 90's. Don't recall any media coverage for either event (like Joe Q said he was afriad of). Don't even recall any fan uproar, though there were so many f-ed up things about the Spidey titles at the time I suppose it seemed like a minor thing.

An interesting email from JMS on Newsarama...

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=141756

depluto · Post by **depluto** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:47 pm

It's basically a neutron bomb to the continuity, I guess. Until some future editor drops another bomb and puts everything back the way it was. Since they can do that. Since it's magic and all.

Stan Lee maybe could have got away with this around issue No. 8, but there is so much story there now.

The earlier splits with MJ felt like temporary things; this one has a permanent feel to it. Not from anything in the story, just from Q's statements.

depluto · Post by **depluto** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:48 pm

And it sounds like there is way too much micromanagement from the top at Marvel these days. On the other hand, and with the exception of this Spidey stuff, they really are putting out some great comics.

Todd Luck · Post by **Todd Luck** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:49 pm

depluto wrote:And it sounds like there is way too much micromanagement from the top at Marvel these days. On the other hand, and with the exception of this Spidey stuff, they really are putting out some great comics.

Agreed.

Except for Spidey (specifically Sins Past and One More Day) I'm not aware of Joe Q doing micromanagement on actual stories.

Which is a good thing. I once read something from a comic editor (can't remember who, maybe Shooter?) who said that part of his job was saying "yes" alot and you can tell Joe and the guys under him do a great job of that with all the diverse selection of great comics (Iron Fist, Marvel Zombies, Annihalation, X-Men First Class, Captian America, Punisher, etc, etc)

And it's rarely a good thing when any editor has to get involved in a story after it's been assigned or planned. Speaking from personal experience as a writer (at a newspaper), when the editor makes you change something or rewrites something you wrote, it's a rare thing when that actually turns out anywhere near as good as what you originally were doing. Sometimes it's vitally neccessary but very rarely does an editor's writing style mesh well with the writers under them, especially on rushed last minute corrections. As a reader I enjoyed One More Day right up until the end of issue 3. Somehow you can just tell when someone else has reworked something.

depluto · Post by **depluto** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:26 pm

I've worked with good editors and bad editors. The good ones will let the best writers do their thing (for the most part) and spend their time working with the ones who are still learning the game. The bad editors change everybody's stuff because that is their schtick.

But getting back to Spidey, I was finally starting to warm up to JMS. I still prefer Bendis' take on the character, though. I think JMS gets a bit too chatty sometimes (although it's not like Bendis doesn't!) and the conversations get annoying, like watching a child who is trying too hard to be cute.

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:12 am

One day more...
One more day to Revolution, we will nip it in the bud
We'll be ready for those schoolboys...
They will wet themselves with blood!

Oh, sorry...wrong thread....

Cyberstrike · Post by **Cyberstrike** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:28 pm

I stopped reading Marvel very gradually in fact it was so gradual that it
wasn't until I was filling out a Previews order book and I noticed that I was
only ordering 2 ongoing series from them, The Amazing Spider-Man
and Supreme Power and was ordering close to every title in the main
DCU line before I realized it.

Then after The Other I realized that Marvel was not for me anymore. This was partial because of Marvel's hiring Pat Lee
(if you think Liefeld and McFarlane are *SQUEE* bags he's a bigger *SQUEE* bag than those 2 combined and considering he got his start under Liefeld that's not surprising) to draw one of the Spider-Man titles, but I think most of it had more to do with me simply not connecting to any of Marvel's characters.

I'll buy hardcovers and TPBs from time to time but even with writers like Joss Whedon, Peter David, JMS, and others, but I find it a lot harder to sit down, read, and enjoy them anymore. If I don't enjoy a comic, movie, video game, TV show, music, and whatever else I'm into then I see no reason to continue to waste my time and money on them when I can spend that time and money on something that I will enjoy.

Todd Luck · Post by **Todd Luck** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:41 am

Cyberstrike wrote:I stopped reading Marvel very gradually in fact it was so gradual that it
wasn't until I was filling out a Previews order book and I noticed that I was
only ordering 2 ongoing series from them, The Amazing Spider-Man
and Supreme Power and was ordering close to every title in the main
DCU line before I realized it.

Then after The Other I realized that Marvel was not for me anymore. This was partial because of Marvel's hiring Pat Lee
(if you think Liefeld and McFarlane are *SQUEE* bags he's a bigger *SQUEE* bag than those 2 combined and considering he got his start under Liefeld that's not surprising) to draw one of the Spider-Man titles, but I think most of it had more to do with me simply not connecting to any of Marvel's characters.

I'll buy hardcovers and TPBs from time to time but even with writers like Joss Whedon, Peter David, JMS, and others, but I find it a lot harder to sit down, read, and enjoy them anymore. If I don't enjoy a comic, movie, video game, TV show, music, and whatever else I'm into then I see no reason to continue to waste my time and money on them when I can spend that time and money on something that I will enjoy.

If you don't like it, don't buy it.

My story is very similar, just everytime you say "Marvel" replace it with "DC" (and vice versa) and replace "The Other" with "Infinite Crisis."

The Harbinger · Post by **The Harbinger** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 12:44 pm

Cyberstrike wrote:Then after The Other I realized that Marvel was not for me anymore. This was partial because of Marvel's hiring Pat Lee
(if you think Liefeld and McFarlane are *SQUEE* bags he's a bigger *SQUEE* bag than those 2 combined and considering he got his start under Liefeld that's not surprising)

Never heard of him, so I looked at his wikipedia entry. Definite tool.

From Wiki:
"Controversially, Lee is the subject of much criticism over his financial practices, especially surrounding the closure of Dreamwave and the failure to pay its staff whilst items such as sports cars were exempt from debt collection agencies, due to being surreptitiously transerred from company to personal ownership prior to declaring bancruptcy.[2] Also, his art-style, usually in regards to Transformers, came under fire from fans. After the studio closed its doors, it became the butt of many art-based jokes or cynical takes on the Dreamwave closure episode, especially in light of the revelation that many of his art pages were actually being drawn by uncredited (and, eventually, unpaid) sub-contractors."

Byrneout · Post by **Byrneout** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:28 pm

The Harbinger wrote:
Cyberstrike wrote:Then after The Other I realized that Marvel was not for me anymore. This was partial because of Marvel's hiring Pat Lee
(if you think Liefeld and McFarlane are *SQUEE* bags he's a bigger *SQUEE* bag than those 2 combined and considering he got his start under Liefeld that's not surprising)

Never heard of him, so I looked at his wikipedia entry. Definite tool.

From Wiki:
"Controversially, Lee is the subject of much criticism over his financial practices, especially surrounding the closure of Dreamwave and the failure to pay its staff whilst items such as sports cars were exempt from debt collection agencies, due to being surreptitiously transerred from company to personal ownership prior to declaring bancruptcy.[2] Also, his art-style, usually in regards to Transformers, came under fire from fans. After the studio closed its doors, it became the butt of many art-based jokes or cynical takes on the Dreamwave closure episode, especially in light of the revelation that many of his art pages were actually being drawn by uncredited (and, eventually, unpaid) sub-contractors."

Don't forget that Pat Lee forgot to draw the cast on Mary Jane's arm during The Other, causing one of the better 4th wall breaking moments in recent Spider-Man history as to how they explain it.

Todd Luck · Post by **Todd Luck** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:18 am

Here's an attempt to explain the new status quo:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/ ... i?id=12701

If you can tell me how the Civil War section makes any sense you're doing better than I am.

Ironically MJ now is in almost the exact same position she was in a few years ago before her and Pete got back together during JMS' run. Why we needed to a retcon/reboot to get her to break up with Peter and move to California when she was already there is beyond me.

I just can't figure out why Joe Q greenlighted Peter and MJ getting back together a few years back if he hated it so much. Alternating between "now they're married" and "now they're not" every few years is kind of annoying. It's like DC alternating between "Lex Luther is an evil businessman but no can prove it" and "Lex Luther is a supervillian" every few years (there should be a limit on how many times you can try to kill Superman in public and blame it on your evil clone). Just annoying.

Lightning Strike · Post by **Lightning Strike** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:39 am

Cyberstrike wrote:
The Harbinger wrote:marvel sucks
So does DC.

Come on now. DC has done a great job in rebuilding the GL franchise and they're doing a lot better than Marvel overall.

Lightning Strike · Post by **Lightning Strike** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:41 am

Cyberstrike wrote:
Todd Luck wrote:
Cyberstrike wrote:
Draco wrote:Sounds appalling.

Do Marvel really care so little?

The amsnwer is: yes.

They "killed" Steve Rogers then bring his LONG dead side kick back from
the grave to be the new Captain America and they turned Iron Man into a jerk.
Don't you mean they brought back his LONG dead side kick and then 25 issues later, killed Steve Rogers?

I like Iron Man, myself. He's stepped up to the plate when no one else would and he's done some awesome things as the head of SHIELD/The Initiative in Captain America, World War Hulk. etc. Personally I wish all the heroes in the Marvel Universe would stop blaming everything on Tony (I think we've got a few monthes before everyone gets that stuff out their system).
Honestly I don't why but characters like Iron Man/Tony Stark and Batman/Bruce Wayne annoy me to no end.
I liked Stark more before the Civil War when he acted more human and now he comes off to me as a self-rightous prick and Batman was has always been a bit of self-rightous prick

Agreed. I stopped liking Batman when he kicked Grayson to the curb because he said he didn't want a sidekick then turns around and trains Jason Todd to be the new Robin.

Lightning Strike · Post by **Lightning Strike** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:43 am

Escaflown4 wrote:I just read the synopsis over at Newsrama and all I got to say is this...

Congrats Joey Q....you just destroyed Marvel's top icon...over 20 years of work flushed down the toilet. Why they appointed him as EIC is beyond my comprehension. This is by far worse then killing Superman. From the response alone, looks like more then 50% of the readers are dropping the title. It'll take a miracle to get Spidey back up there again.

You guys are just now realizing something I've been saying for years. Welcome to the club

Lightning Strike · Post by **Lightning Strike** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:44 am

depluto wrote:I paid $4 an issue for that? I wish they had just thrown her off a bridge like last time. At least that issue is worth some money.

Lightning Strike · Post by **Lightning Strike** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:44 am

Escaflown4 wrote:I think Marvel needs to remove Joe Q before he takes the rest of Marvel down with him. He better not do anything stupid with the X-Men.

too late

siren3-4 · Post by **siren3-4** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:07 pm

Aunt May finding out about Peter being Spider-Man is one of the stories that really got me back into reading Spidey again . . .

How can they throw that away . . . it was so well done . . . I love those issues . . .

BloodOfHeroes · Post by **BloodOfHeroes** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:20 pm

ZephyrWasHOT!! wrote:One day more...
One more day to Revolution, we will nip it in the bud
We'll be ready for those schoolboys...
They will wet themselves with blood!

Oh, sorry...wrong thread....

Great enunciation, though! Passion AND precision (of sorts)!

rictor · Post by **rictor** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:15 pm

I loved the marriage, so I was against this from the start. The new status quo bothers me quite a bit.

What I really find bothering me is that Quesada had Peter, Marvel's most recognized and kid-friendly character, make a deal with the devil. Peter's life has been defined by "With great power, there must also come great responsibility," and now he makes a deal with Mephisto. The message that this sends about heroism bothers me to my core.

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 3:30 pm

BloodOfHeroes wrote:
ZephyrWasHOT!! wrote:One day more...
One more day to Revolution, we will nip it in the bud
We'll be ready for those schoolboys...
They will wet themselves with blood!

Oh, sorry...wrong thread....
Great enunciation, though! Passion AND precision (of sorts)!

You should hear it in person....I was BORN to play Javert....

Todd Luck · Post by **Todd Luck** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 3:41 pm

siren3-4 wrote:Aunt May finding out about Peter being Spider-Man is one of the stories that really got me back into reading Spidey again . . .

How can they throw that away . . . it was so well done . . . I love those issues . . .

For some reason Mephisto erased EVERYONE's knowledge that Peter was Spidey...

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=141756

Even better, all the events where people discovered Peter's ID apparently happened but no can remember what his ID is now.

So all those stories happened, they just no longer any sense if any of the characters think about them. LOL

As an old DC reader this all sounds sadly familar. At some point Dr. Light will rape MJ to get revenge on Spidey while the multiverse returns for the second time (even though no one remembers the first time) and we'll discover Spidey is really in the DCU.

BloodOfHeroes · Post by **BloodOfHeroes** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 3:53 pm

ZephyrWasHOT!! wrote:You should hear it in person....I was BORN to play Javert....

And here I thought you were the one leading the "Freedom Fries" petition on the board back in '03. Must've been someone else...

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:05 pm

BloodOfHeroes wrote:
ZephyrWasHOT!! wrote:You should hear it in person....I was BORN to play Javert....
And here I thought you were the one leading the "Freedom Fries" petition on the board back in '03. Must've been someone else...

Oh dear Lord, no. That wouldn't have been me at ALL.

"Freedom Fries".....<chuckle>

Lightning Strike · Post by **Lightning Strike** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:21 pm

rictor wrote:I loved the marriage, so I was against this from the start. The new status quo bothers me quite a bit.

What I really find bothering me is that Quesada had Peter, Marvel's most recognized and kid-friendly character, make a deal with the devil.

That's what bothered me the most as well. This flies against ALL continuity that the character of Peter Parker has built since it's conception.
Peter would NEVER, EVER make a deal with the devil, nor would he do so knowing that May herself would not want Peter to do it at the cost of his marriage.
Joe Q. should be ashamed of himself for ruining Marvel's flagship character. I shudder to think what Stan Lee and Steve Ditko think of this whole thing.

Byrneout · Post by **Byrneout** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:20 pm

Lightning Strike wrote:Joe Q. should be ashamed of himself for ruining Marvel's flagship character. I shudder to think what Stan Lee and Steve Ditko think of this whole thing.

Will, given that the marriage was created by Stan Lee and heralded into comics by Jim Shooter, I think it's obvious that neither of them would agree that this is a good move, and that neither of them are HALF the comics savant that Joe Q. is.

I mean, let's look at all the INCREDIBLE characters that Joe Q has created...

Er, let's skip that and review all of the DEFINING character arcs he's written...

Er, uh...

He draws a pretty mean Ninjak! That has to count for something when it comes to writing Spidey, right?

No?

Then I've got nothing.