Dynamic Forces is VIP.

leonmallett · Post by **leonmallett** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:29 am

greg wrote:
leonmallett wrote:
Second_Death wrote:Not much question about the link between vip and Dynamic Forces.
I'd agree except to add that it all circumstantial. Nothing irrefutably definitive as yet.
If Mr. Lovitz allowed "irrefutably definitive" to occur for his client, he wouldn't be doing his job.

...and it appears that in this area of the industry, he only has one client.

If all the arrows pointing the same direction isn't enough for you...
I guess you'll just have to believe that Dynamic Forces isn't involved.

Hold on greg, I didn't say that. What I agreed was that all told it is pretty conclusive. I wouldn't refute it. But then I am not a lawyer. All I pointed out was a fact that it is circumstantial, which it is. I had hoped that that comment would not be taken the wrong way. Nor does it indicate support for any group. My support is for VEI. I have ordered two copies of the hardcover through my LCS (despite the fact that I could have probably ordered them cheaper elsewhere) in order that hopefully notice of VEI will be taken there.

I am mindful of when Brian Thomer was 'proven' to be in league with VIP.

I know this is an emotive subject, but please don't look for enemies wher they are not, greg. Or at least don't misinterpret my comments.

greg · Post by **greg** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:46 am

leonmallett wrote:
greg wrote:
leonmallett wrote:
Second_Death wrote:Not much question about the link between vip and Dynamic Forces.
I'd agree except to add that it all circumstantial. Nothing irrefutably definitive as yet.
If Mr. Lovitz allowed "irrefutably definitive" to occur for his client, he wouldn't be doing his job.

...and it appears that in this area of the industry, he only has one client.

If all the arrows pointing the same direction isn't enough for you...
I guess you'll just have to believe that Dynamic Forces isn't involved.

Hold on greg, I didn't say that. What I agreed was that all told it is pretty conclusive. I wouldn't refute it. But then I am not a lawyer. All I pointed out was a fact that it is circumstantial, which it is. I had hoped that that comment would not be taken the wrong way.

O.J. was acquitted of federal charges because it took 100% proof.
O.J. was GUILTY of civil charges because it took a "prepoderance of evidence".

...and all we're talking about here is a lawyer covering for his (one and only) client.

Seems like it's a much simpler investigation. No bloody gloves. No Kato Kaelin.
Just Lovitz, VIP, and every trademark connection Lovitz has had... all pointing to DF.
(With an "assist" to Christopher Priest, for point out Q&W connection to VIP...
which is either American Entertainment (now out of business)
or Dynamic Forces... a lithograph... a signed edition. Priest + VIP = DF.)

leonmallett · Post by **leonmallett** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:47 am

You posted whilst I was editing my above post. So I refer you to that.

greg · Post by **greg** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:50 am

leonmallett wrote:I am mindful of when Brian Thomer was 'proven' to be in league with VIP.

That was two clues... and questionable behavior on Thomer's part...
and it DID smoke out a connection to VIP on this board... it just wasn't Thomer.

This VIP = DF thing is a dozen PUBLIC clues. (...and plenty of private ones.)

leonmallett · Post by **leonmallett** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:52 am

greg wrote:
leonmallett wrote:I am mindful of when Brian Thomer was 'proven' to be in league with VIP.
That was two clues... and questionable behavior on Thomer's part...
and it DID smoke out a connection to VIP on this board... it just wasn't Thomer.

Greg read your repsonse to my comment about circumstantial evidence and think back to the Brian situation, please. Then consider if either was reasonable. I feel you have made an assumption about my comment. Of course I may in turn be making an assumption about that. And assumptions can be dangerous. We don't need enemies here, VIP remain the obvious enemy.

Although hopefully not an 'immortal' one...

greg · Post by **greg** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:07 am

leonmallett wrote:
greg wrote:
leonmallett wrote:I am mindful of when Brian Thomer was 'proven' to be in league with VIP.
That was two clues... and questionable behavior on Thomer's part...
and it DID smoke out a connection to VIP on this board... it just wasn't Thomer.
Greg read your repsonse to my comment about circumstantial evidence and think back to the Brian situation, please. Then consider if either was reasonable. I feel you have made an assumption about my comment. Of course I may in turn be making an assumption about that. And assumptions can be dangerous. We don't need enemies here, VIP remain the obvious enemy.

Although hopefully not an 'immortal' one...

I understand your comments.

In the case of "Brian Thomer seems connected to VIP, what do you say, Brian?"
...all of the evidence was growing on the board, in real-time, in front of everyone.
That's all there was... just clues and discussions and questions.

In the case of VIP = DF, I am only providing "confirmed, public information".
I have more evidence that I am not allowed to reveal, due to promises made
and promises being kept. As a result, I can either say, "trust me",
or I can just keep finding "confirmed, public information" and presenting
it as "admissable" in this discussion.

While you might see "Brian Thomer errors"...
I see "Brian Thomer discussion = 100% OPEN, real-time, in view, for all to see"...
compared to "VIP = only public, confirmed sources to be revealed".

Daniel Jackson · Post by **Daniel Jackson** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:36 am

It's interesting to back and read that comment Priest made about him working with them in the past and talking about what they could do with Q&W. Wouldn't it just be a Q&W in name only though? Wouldn't Priest have to change everything about them that made the book what it is? I'm sure that could not be what he really wants to do with the book.

Zero · Post by **Zero** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:08 am

Daniel Jackson wrote:It's interesting to back and read that comment Priest made about him working with them in the past and talking about what they could do with Q&W. Wouldn't it just be a Q&W in name only though? Wouldn't Priest have to change everything about them that made the book what it is? I'm sure that could not be what he really wants to do with the book.

Quantum & Woody was a bit different. Acclaim had an agreement that the copyrights would revert to Priest/Bright if certain criteria were met. Priest thinks that criteria was met. Walter Black makes it clear that those criteria were not met.

TimeWillTell wrote:There was a formal agreement between the Q&W creators and Acclaim.
Was there a reversion clause... Yes.
Was that reversion clause automatic... No.

In order for the reversion process to begin, certain criteria had to be met (or not met) by Acclaim. If after a certain period of time, Q&W was not published, the creators could then formally begin the reversion process.

During that process, Acclaim had certain rights and remedies to come back into compliance with the agreement. The reversion process was spelled out quite clearly.

To my knowledge, the creators never exercised their rights of reversion in accordance with the agreement. If they had, Acclaim would have instituted their remedies in order to keep the property.

In addition to the agreement, there are a number of other factors involved that play against the creators ability to claim ownership. I won't go into those here.

The new owners will, in the end, in my opinion, have the rights to previously printed materials along with the characters and, eventually the name Quantum & Woody. The old agreement doesn't mean they (the new owners) have to do anything with it if they so choose, as far as I can tell.

I hope that helps.
-TWT

thePike · Post by **thePike** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:40 pm

This whole event just reminds me of those dot-com scams of the early/mid 90's. Remember when the internet was just starting to pick up and all the big corporations were coming onboard just to find out the big .com names like chevrolet.com, pepsi.com, and nike.com were already registered by other profiteers that had the forethought to register those domains (at $5 a pop) and then sell them to the actual companies for lots of $$$ when the time came. -This situation reminds me of those days.

Instead of domain .com names we have character/book names, but the basic premise is the same. vip has something VEI wants (they don't necessarily need it, but it's really nice to have) and they want them to pay through the nose to get it.

The public information surrounding the vip-to-DF link is indeed circumstantial (and is no way a definitive connection). However, the fact that Greg says he 'knows something' in that oh-so secret squirrel kinda way, tends to make me believe that this is indeed Dynamic Forces.

Which is kinda disapointing to me, as I believed DF would be above this kind of petty crap to earn a dollar.

greg · Post by **greg** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:46 pm

thePike wrote:... as I believed DF would be above this kind of petty crap to earn a dollar.

Based upon... ?

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:48 pm

Daniel Jackson wrote:It's interesting to back and read that comment Priest made about him working with them in the past.

I remember when I first proposed that VIP was American Entertainment, which produced Q&W #0. I think AE became Dynamic Forces or was bought out by them.

thePike · Post by **thePike** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 1:08 pm

greg wrote:
thePike wrote:... as I believed DF would be above this kind of petty crap to earn a dollar.
Based upon... ?

Just a general gut feeling, nothing substantial.

Comics as a whole are collectables, and to my observation, Dynamic Forces always dealty with making collectables more collectable: signed/coa copis of books, special covers (regardless of if you like variants or not), special statues, etc, etc, etc. Basically, they fed the fans what they wanted.

This move, on the other hand, is an attmept to make $$$ by whatever means necessary (although all the other stuff is too, its done by going with the flow of the fans - not against).

Once again, just basic personal opinion since I don't have a whole lot of factual knowledge of DF, this might be common business to them.

Todd Luck · Post by **Todd Luck** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:32 pm

greg wrote:
and it DID smoke out a connection to VIP on this board... it just wasn't Thomer.

I had *SQUEE* meter filled by then and "left" the board to focus on my real world problems so I never saw the end of that debacle. Was this connection ever made public?

greg · Post by **greg** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:44 pm

Todd Luck wrote:
greg wrote:
and it DID smoke out a connection to VIP on this board... it just wasn't Thomer.

I had *SQUEE* meter filled by then and "left" the board to focus on my real world problems so I never saw the end of that debacle. Was this connection ever made public?

No it was not... and I am abiding by my promise to not reveal that individual's connection until he is ready.

Todd Luck · Post by **Todd Luck** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:56 pm

greg wrote:
Todd Luck wrote:
greg wrote:
and it DID smoke out a connection to VIP on this board... it just wasn't Thomer.

I had *SQUEE* meter filled by then and "left" the board to focus on my real world problems so I never saw the end of that debacle. Was this connection ever made public?
No it was not... and I am abiding by my promise to not reveal that individual's connection until he is ready.

Ready for what? A verbal lynching by a rabid virtual mob?

You didn't kick this guy/girl out after all that?

greg · Post by **greg** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:11 pm

Todd Luck wrote:
greg wrote:
Todd Luck wrote:
greg wrote:
and it DID smoke out a connection to VIP on this board... it just wasn't Thomer.

I had *SQUEE* meter filled by then and "left" the board to focus on my real world problems so I never saw the end of that debacle. Was this connection ever made public?
No it was not... and I am abiding by my promise to not reveal that individual's connection until he is ready.
Ready for what? A verbal lynching by a rabid virtual mob?

You didn't kick this guy/girl out after all that?

This guy has a connection to VIP, but is not part of them.

I believe his loyalties are with this community until I see anything to think otherwise.

slym2none · Post by **slym2none** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:13 pm

greg wrote:
Todd Luck wrote:
greg wrote:
Todd Luck wrote:
greg wrote:
and it DID smoke out a connection to VIP on this board... it just wasn't Thomer.

I had *SQUEE* meter filled by then and "left" the board to focus on my real world problems so I never saw the end of that debacle. Was this connection ever made public?
No it was not... and I am abiding by my promise to not reveal that individual's connection until he is ready.
Ready for what? A verbal lynching by a rabid virtual mob?

You didn't kick this guy/girl out after all that?
This guy has a connection to VIP, but is not part of them.

I believe his loyalties are with this community until I see anything to think otherwise.

-slym

Todd Luck · Post by **Todd Luck** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:18 pm

greg wrote:
Todd Luck wrote:
greg wrote:
Todd Luck wrote:
greg wrote:
and it DID smoke out a connection to VIP on this board... it just wasn't Thomer.

I had *SQUEE* meter filled by then and "left" the board to focus on my real world problems so I never saw the end of that debacle. Was this connection ever made public?
No it was not... and I am abiding by my promise to not reveal that individual's connection until he is ready.
Ready for what? A verbal lynching by a rabid virtual mob?

You didn't kick this guy/girl out after all that?
This guy has a connection to VIP, but is not part of them.

I believe his loyalties are with this community until I see anything to think otherwise.

I just found your apology to Thomer where you said he wasn't with VIP and apologized to anyone who was offended by you going after him. You posted it a few hours after I had decided I had "enough" with the board. LOL

Anyway, a little late, but apology accepted

That was great of you to clean up that mess.

jedimarley · Post by **jedimarley** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:58 pm

greg wrote:This guy has a connection to VIP, but is not part of them.

I believe his loyalties are with this community until I see anything to think otherwise.

I hope that my actions over the past 2 1/2 years here have proven that my loyalties ARE and WILL ALWAYS be with this community and it's members (even those that are no longer here).

Yes. I have a connection to VIP. But I'm not a "Spy" for them. Nor am I a "Supporter" of them.

I support VE and all things Valiant. Always have....Always will.

GJB · Post by **GJB** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 4:14 pm

jedimarley wrote:
greg wrote:This guy has a connection to VIP, but is not part of them.

I believe his loyalties are with this community until I see anything to think otherwise.

I hope that my actions over the past 2 1/2 years here have proven that my loyalties ARE and WILL ALWAYS be with this community and it's members (even those that are no longer here).

Yes. I have a connection to VIP. But I'm not a "Spy" for them. Nor am I a "Supporter" of them.

I support VE and all things Valiant. Always have....Always will.

I don't know Jedi, you haven't shown much generosity in the past 2 1/2 years.

BTW, pre season #18, what do you think?

X-O HoboJoe · Post by **X-O HoboJoe** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 4:19 pm

jedimarley wrote:
greg wrote:This guy has a connection to VIP, but is not part of them.

I believe his loyalties are with this community until I see anything to think otherwise.

I hope that my actions over the past 2 1/2 years here have proven that my loyalties ARE and WILL ALWAYS be with this community and it's members (even those that are no longer here).

Yes. I have a connection to VIP. But I'm not a "Spy" for them. Nor am I a "Supporter" of them.

I support VE and all things Valiant. Always have....Always will.

Jedi's supposed to be a spy for vip?

Right, and I'm banging the Olsen twins . . . again!

Daniel Jackson · Post by **Daniel Jackson** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 4:23 pm

jedimarley wrote:
greg wrote:This guy has a connection to VIP, but is not part of them.

I believe his loyalties are with this community until I see anything to think otherwise.

I hope that my actions over the past 2 1/2 years here have proven that my loyalties ARE and WILL ALWAYS be with this community and it's members (even those that are no longer here).

Yes. I have a connection to VIP. But I'm not a "Spy" for them. Nor am I a "Supporter" of them.

I support VE and all things Valiant. Always have....Always will.

You don't have to answer of course, but what exactly is the connection?

X-O HoboJoe · Post by **X-O HoboJoe** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 4:27 pm

Daniel Jackson wrote:
jedimarley wrote:
greg wrote:This guy has a connection to VIP, but is not part of them.

I believe his loyalties are with this community until I see anything to think otherwise.

I hope that my actions over the past 2 1/2 years here have proven that my loyalties ARE and WILL ALWAYS be with this community and it's members (even those that are no longer here).

Yes. I have a connection to VIP. But I'm not a "Spy" for them. Nor am I a "Supporter" of them.

I support VE and all things Valiant. Always have....Always will.
You don't have to answer of course, but what exactly is the connection?

Well, I was in chat with Dr. Solar then they just showed up at my door. The wife was into it so . . . badda-bing-badda-bam! Like Tommy Lee at a tea-bag festival, I was all over it.

X-O HoboJoe · Post by **X-O HoboJoe** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 4:27 pm

Oh, you weren't talking to me?

Daniel Jackson · Post by **Daniel Jackson** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 4:28 pm

X-O HoboJoe wrote:
Daniel Jackson wrote:
jedimarley wrote:
greg wrote:This guy has a connection to VIP, but is not part of them.

I believe his loyalties are with this community until I see anything to think otherwise.

I hope that my actions over the past 2 1/2 years here have proven that my loyalties ARE and WILL ALWAYS be with this community and it's members (even those that are no longer here).

Yes. I have a connection to VIP. But I'm not a "Spy" for them. Nor am I a "Supporter" of them.

I support VE and all things Valiant. Always have....Always will.
You don't have to answer of course, but what exactly is the connection?
Well, I was in chat with Dr. Solar then they just showed up at my door. The wife was into it so . . . badda-bing-badda-bam! Like Tommy Lee at a tea-bag festival, I was all over it.

You lost me after "well"....