Spidey and the black costume

[iccarus]

So, the upcoming Spider-Man 3 movie has me itching to re-read some of the black costume saga...however, I only own ASM 300 and honestly don't feel like dropping the cash to pick up the key issues during the hype. (Actually, I kind of want to cash in that 300 during the hype anyway)

Are there any good (and affordable) TPBs that collect most of the key parts of the storyline? I would think there will be one out as we approach release of the movie, but you never know.

While we're on the subject, for those more versed in Spider-man, what are the key issues of the black costume storyline anyway?

[MedicAR]

From memory, Amazing Spider-Man #252 is key because it's the first black costume, Secret Wars #8 "introduced" the costume (don't get me started on this one ), Marvel Team-Up #141 is first costume in that title, Spectacular Spider-Man #90 is the first costume in that title, Amazing #300 is where it becomes Venom.

I'm sure there are others, is MrBigFeathas still around? He's a Spidey nut.

[Chiclo]

I had a TPB of the Black Costume Saga a while back, but I sold it in my big comics sell-off.

I made a profit on it, so I don't regret selling it too much.

[tssgery]

I don't know of a TPB that collects SW 252, ASM 298-300, etc...

but there is "Spider-man vs Venom" that collects ASM 298-300 and 315-317

http://www.atomicavenue.com/atomic/Issu ... ?ID=155323

[D_N_G]

viewtopic.php?t=13137

key issues ^

[iccarus]

viewtopic.php?t=13137

key issues ^

Thanks

That helps a lot.

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

So, the upcoming Spider-Man 3 movie has me itching to re-read some of the black costume saga...however, I only own ASM 300 and honestly don't feel like dropping the cash to pick up the key issues during the hype. (Actually, I kind of want to cash in that 300 during the hype anyway)

Are there any good (and affordable) TPBs that collect most of the key parts of the storyline? I would think there will be one out as we approach release of the movie, but you never know.

While we're on the subject, for those more versed in Spider-man, what are the key issues of the black costume storyline anyway?

#252 is the first appearance of the black costume, as it was intended to be by Marvel. Cover date May 1984.

Next comes Marvel Team-Up #141 and Spect Spid #90, both cover date May 1984.

The black costume "saga" wasn't really a saga until really about Amazing #258, when Spidey realizes that the costume is, indeed, a symbiote (though there were clues to that effect as far back as Amazing #253.)

Spect Spid and Marvel Team-Up had clues about the costume, but clearly the focus on the costume was in Amazing Spidey. In #258, Spidey and the Symbiote duke it out, and Reed Richards (this is from memory, so someone correct me if it's wrong) zaps the costume with a sonic blaster, and takes it into custody. In Amazing #259, Spidey's back to the old costume, and thereon until #300 he switches back and forth between red/blue and black (this time out of regular fabric, natch), but mostly stays with the black costume (I guess being reminded on a daily basis of nearly getting bonded body, mind, and soul to an alien symbiote didn't trump his keen fashion sense.)

Interesting aside: FF #274 is the issue where the symbiote escapes from FF custody, in the epilogue. This leads directly to Web of Spiderman #1, in which the alien symbiote takes on last stab at Peter Parker....he goes to the church, and defeats the symbiote once and for all...well, at least as far as it bonding to HIM is concerned....

The most visually spectacular use of the costume (no pun intended) was in Kraven's Last Hunt, in which Mike Zeck's art worked tremendously well with the story and the costume. Kraven's last hunt USED to be a fairly valuable set, but hasn't been regarded well in over a decade (and why should it? Kraven's returned how many times?)

Web of Spiderman #31 and #32 are my favorite covers of the series by far (though Spect #131 is pretty nice too.)

So, after Web #1, there really isn't anything to do with the alien symbiote for nearly 4 years, until Amazing #298.

Fun fun.

It was actually a REALLY well designed story by Roger Stern and (dare I say it?) Tom DeFalco. It certainly made a LOT of waves when it was introduced. And, oddly enough, the reader even felt compassion for the poor alien at many points in the story, most notably Web #1 and Amazing #317 down the line.

Secret Wars #8 is just the origin of the costume, where it came from, and how Spidey got it. It is cover dated Dec 1984.

[Elveen]

So, the upcoming Spider-Man 3 movie has me itching to re-read some of the black costume saga...however, I only own ASM 300 and honestly don't feel like dropping the cash to pick up the key issues during the hype. (Actually, I kind of want to cash in that 300 during the hype anyway)

Are there any good (and affordable) TPBs that collect most of the key parts of the storyline? I would think there will be one out as we approach release of the movie, but you never know.

While we're on the subject, for those more versed in Spider-man, what are the key issues of the black costume storyline anyway?

#252 is the first appearance of the black costume, as it was intended to be by Marvel. Cover date May 1984.

Next comes Marvel Team-Up #141 and Spect Spid #90, both cover date May 1984.

The black costume "saga" wasn't really a saga until really about Amazing #258, when Spidey realizes that the costume is, indeed, a symbiote (though there were clues to that effect as far back as Amazing #253.)

Spect Spid and Marvel Team-Up had clues about the costume, but clearly the focus on the costume was in Amazing Spidey. In #258, Spidey and the Symbiote duke it out, and Reed Richards (this is from memory, so someone correct me if it's wrong) zaps the costume with a sonic blaster, and takes it into custody. In Amazing #259, Spidey's back to the old costume, and thereon until #300 he switches back and forth between red/blue and black (this time out of regular fabric, natch), but mostly stays with the black costume (I guess being reminded on a daily basis of nearly getting bonded body, mind, and soul to an alien symbiote didn't trump his keen fashion sense.)

Interesting aside: FF #274 is the issue where the symbiote escapes from FF custody, in the epilogue. This leads directly to Web of Spiderman #1, in which the alien symbiote takes on last stab at Peter Parker....he goes to the church, and defeats the symbiote once and for all...well, at least as far as it bonding to HIM is concerned....

The most visually spectacular use of the costume (no pun intended) was in Kraven's Last Hunt, in which Mike Zeck's art worked tremendously well with the story and the costume. Kraven's last hunt USED to be a fairly valuable set, but hasn't been regarded well in over a decade (and why should it? Kraven's returned how many times?)

Web of Spiderman #31 and #32 are my favorite covers of the series by far (though Spect #131 is pretty nice too.)

So, after Web #1, there really isn't anything to do with the alien symbiote for nearly 4 years, until Amazing #298.

Fun fun.

It was actually a REALLY well designed story by Roger Stern and (dare I say it?) Tom DeFalco. It certainly made a LOT of waves when it was introduced. And, oddly enough, the reader even felt compassion for the poor alien at many points in the story, most notably Web #1 and Amazing #317 down the line.

Secret Wars #8 is just the origin of the costume, where it came from, and how Spidey got it. It is cover dated Dec 1984.

good post Z, very informative.

[Daniel Jackson]

The black costume issues were my least favorite. I was glad when he got rid of it.

[The Spider]

The most visually spectacular use of the costume (no pun intended) was in Kraven's Last Hunt, in which Mike Zeck's art worked tremendously well with the story and the costume. Kraven's last hunt USED to be a fairly valuable set, but hasn't been regarded well in over a decade (and why should it? Kraven's returned how many times?)

You know, now that I think of it they surprisingly actually managed to keep the character dead for this long. I never would've thought they'd bring back Bucky before they would ever bring back the original Kraven.

And yeah, when thinking about it, the red-and-blue costume really would've been less effective in Kraven's Last Hunt.

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

The most visually spectacular use of the costume (no pun intended) was in Kraven's Last Hunt, in which Mike Zeck's art worked tremendously well with the story and the costume. Kraven's last hunt USED to be a fairly valuable set, but hasn't been regarded well in over a decade (and why should it? Kraven's returned how many times?)

You know, now that I think of it they surprisingly actually managed to keep the character dead for this long. I never would've thought they'd bring back Bucky before they would ever bring back the original Kraven.

And yeah, when thinking about it, the red-and-blue costume really would've been less effective in Kraven's Last Hunt.

Yeah, but even if the original Kraven is "dead", the character of Kraven has been brought back. The casual reader's not going to know the difference. So....it's pretty much the same.

[The Spider]

The most visually spectacular use of the costume (no pun intended) was in Kraven's Last Hunt, in which Mike Zeck's art worked tremendously well with the story and the costume. Kraven's last hunt USED to be a fairly valuable set, but hasn't been regarded well in over a decade (and why should it? Kraven's returned how many times?)

You know, now that I think of it they surprisingly actually managed to keep the character dead for this long. I never would've thought they'd bring back Bucky before they would ever bring back the original Kraven.

And yeah, when thinking about it, the red-and-blue costume really would've been less effective in Kraven's Last Hunt.

Yeah, but even if the original Kraven is "dead", the character of Kraven has been brought back. The casual reader's not going to know the difference. So....it's pretty much the same.

I was gonna bring up how the current Kraven running around has been altered to be more like a Hollywood playboy but I just remembered that they left the possibility of the original Kraven having more illigitimate children open.

Night of a million-zillion Kraven!

[stone384]

The most visually spectacular use of the costume (no pun intended) was in Kraven's Last Hunt, in which Mike Zeck's art worked tremendously well with the story and the costume.

One of my favorite (and first) Spider-Man stories of all time.
Mike Zeck and J.M. DeMattis. Pure bliss. The original Kraven did stay dead, but there have been 3 since then I think. 2 sons (one of which was killed) and a hollywood verision that I know nothing about. The latest version is Kraven's second son I beleive.

Secret Wars #8 is just the origin of the costume, where it came from, and how Spidey got it

IIRC this is just the 1st app. there was no origin until the Planet Symbiote story that ran in a bunch of Super Specials in the 90's which told the origin and where it came from.
m

[slym2none]

Secret Wars #8 is just the origin of the costume, where it came from, and how Spidey got it

IIRC this is just the 1st app.
m

Nonono... SW #8 is not the first appearance, as it came out 8 months after ASM #252 and it's siblings.



-slym

[Daniel Jackson]

Hmm...I was always under the impression that SW#8 was the first.

[slym2none]

Hmm...I was always under the impression that SW#8 was the first.

Nope - Secret Wars #1 came out in-between most major titles release week,so SW 1 came out in between ASM #251 and 252, Uncanny X-Men #180 and 181, and so on... SW #8 was seven months later, and finally explained why Spidey had been running around the MU for seven issues with new black duds.





-slym

[Daniel Jackson]

I bought all those issues back then, but haven't read 'em in years. Guess I'll have to do some digging one these days.

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

IIRC this is just the 1st app. there was no origin until the Planet Symbiote story that ran in a bunch of Super Specials in the 90's which told the origin and where it came from.
m

There is a lot of confusion as to what Secret Wars #8 actually is, because Overstreet has YET to fix this decade old blunder.

Secret Wars #8 is the story of "How Spidey Got the Costume". In that sense, it IS an origin story....it's the origin of the costume as it relates to the Marvel Universe and Peter in particular.

It's not the first appearance of the costume any more than Origin is the "true" first appearance of Wolverine, though in CHRONOLOGICAL MARVEL UNIVERSE time, it IS.

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

Hmm...I was always under the impression that SW#8 was the first.

That's because Overstreet is stupid.

They're wrong.

[Daniel Jackson]

Hmm...I was always under the impression that SW#8 was the first.

That's because Overstreet is stupid.

They're wrong.

That may be what planted the seed for me. I seem to remember seeing it listed in some of price guides at one time.

[sckao]

Hmm...I was always under the impression that SW#8 was the first.

That's because Overstreet is stupid.

They're wrong.

That may be what planted the seed for me. I seem to remember seeing it listed in some of price guides at one time.

Marvel time and real time don't really mesh well. However, the events of Secret Wars were clearly delineated to happen at a specific moment in time (between the issues of 251-252) although it took 12 real months to tell the serialized story.

It wasn't a retcon 8 months later, but was something that was planned out. (much like the One Year Later storylines) or even something odd like when Image printed their #25 issues 1 year ahead of schedule.

Not something like when Byrne goes back 30 years later and "fills" in Spider-man's history in Untold Tales of Spider-man or the X-men.

But I agree.. it's clearly not the first appearance in real time.

[stone384]

Nonono... SW #8 is not the first appearance, as it came out 8 months after ASM #252 and it's siblings.

I wasn't talking real time dates. SW 8 IS the first app. in marvel time. My apologies for not being clear. I don't get wrapped up in the publishing dates debate. In marvel time SW came before Amazing so that is why Overstreet and others consider it the first. Technically Amazing is the first by real time dates, but SW was intended to be the first.
m

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

Nonono... SW #8 is not the first appearance, as it came out 8 months after ASM #252 and it's siblings.

I wasn't talking real time dates. SW 8 IS the first app. in marvel time. My apologies for not being clear. I don't get wrapped up in the publishing dates debate. In marvel time SW came before Amazing so that is why Overstreet and others consider it the first.

No, see, we live in real time, not Marvel U time. The "publishing dates debate" isn't a debate at all. #252 came out 7 months before SW #8, whether or not Shooter et al had #8 plotted, drawn (and it certainly wasn't drawn), or anything else beforehand. Overstreet doesn't consider SW #8 the first appearance because they're thinking Marvel time.....Overstreet considers it the first appearance because they're stupid and didn't bother checking dates.

Once again....Origin isn't the first appearance of Wolverine (though in Marvel U time, CHRONOLOGICALLY it IS) any more than Secret Wars #8 is the first appearance of the costume.

Overstreet should not be concerned with "Marvel U time" (and they're not), only when books were published.

Technically Amazing is the first by real time dates, but SW was intended to be the first.
m

No, it's not anything technical.....Amazing #252 is the first appearance of the costume. Nothing technical about it. SW #8 was never "intended" to be the "first", or it would have been PUBLISHED first.

By your definition, Origin is the first appearance of Wolverine.

Any story that is published AFTER a character first appears that tells of events that happened BEFORE the STORYLINE of the first actual appearance would therefore be that character's NEW "first appearance."

You can see why that's not going to work. The 'Nam #52 would become the Punisher's first appearance. Amazing Spiderman Annual #5 would be Spidey's first appearance. Detective #33 would be Batman's first appearance, not Detective #27.

SW #8 is just the origin of how Spidey got the costume; nothing more, nothing less.