BobLayton.com: Unpublished VALIANT Yearbook Cover Timewalker

[ManofTheAtom]

You're confusing the word reboot with the word revamp.

A reboot is when all continuity is begun from scratch and everything that came before it is ignored.

A revamp is when a new hero replaces another one or an old hero changes costume, city, supporting characters, or stuff like that but their origin and back story remains the same.

Barry was in a continuity of his own (Earth 1) that had nothing to do with Jay's, while Phil lived in the real world where Doctor Solar was just a comic book character who didn't live in an alternate reality.

[Heath]

Phil Seleski living in a world where Doctor Solar is merely a comic book character, but takes that character's name is not a reboot.

Donovan Wylie living in a world where X-O Manowar is merely a comic book character, and takes that character's name would be a reboot.

[myron]

Phil Seleski living in a world where Doctor Solar is merely a comic book character, but takes that character's name is not a reboot.

Donovan Wylie living in a world where X-O Manowar is merely a comic book character, and takes that character's name would be a reboot.

MoTAlogic...

[ManofTheAtom]

Phil Seleski living in a world where Doctor Solar is merely a comic book character, but takes that character's name is not a reboot.

Donovan Wylie living in a world where X-O Manowar is merely a comic book character, and takes that character's name would be a reboot.

I never said that, you said that.

I said that if Donovan lived in the same world as X-O Manowar then it wouldn't be a reboot.

I completely ignored your "Donovan reads X-O Manowar comic" comment, I didn't even care to address it as I already had with the Phil/Doctor Solar sample and it was up to you to find the answer to your question based on that.

[Heath]

So then, your answer is that it would not have been a reboot.

So all Fabien would have had to do to make VH2 not be a reboot, would have been for all of the characters to have read comic book versions of themselves.

Sounds to me like somebody wants DC Lite.

[ManofTheAtom]

So then, your answer is that it would not have been a reboot.

So all Fabien would have had to do to make VH2 not be a reboot, would have been for all of the characters to have read comic book versions of themselves.

Sounds to me like somebody wants DC Lite.

Actually all Fabian had to do was NOT replace one universe with another using rules set up by DC and Marvel 40 years ago.

Imagine, if only he had edited VALIANT like they were VALIANT comics instead of pretending they were DC or Marvel.

How in the hell can X-O Manowar have a crossover with Iron Man?

Answer that one.

[Brother J]

How in the hell can X-O Manowar have a crossover with Iron Man?

Answer that one.

I guess the same way Superman teamed with Spider-Man or the X-Men did with the Teen Titans...

[ManofTheAtom]

How in the hell can X-O Manowar have a crossover with Iron Man?

Answer that one.

I guess the same way Superman teamed with Spider-Man or the X-Men did with the Teen Titans...

So basically I'm the only one here who bothered to read the Pre Unity comics.

Wow.

Last I checked the VALIANT Universe was supposed to be a "world outside your window", where comic book characters like Batman and the X-Men (as well as all others living in the DC and Marvel Universes) were comic book character as well (as it was established in Harbinger #1 and Harbinger #4), meaning that it be impossible for a three dimensional being (like say X-O Manowar) to meet a one dimensional being (like say Iron Man) as one is a real person and the other is a comic book character.

Not all that different from Superman and Mighty Mouse.

But again, this only makes sense to those who actually read the first year of VALIANT... which clearly Fabian Nicieza didn't.

[myron]

Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with authority!

[Heath]

Here's a hint, MOTA: It's all fiction. Every bit of it. Including Pre-Unity. It's not real. X-O Manowar can have a three-way crossover with Donald Duck and Flesh Gordon where they attend a MiniKiss concert if that's what they want to do.

[Heath]

So then, your answer is that it would not have been a reboot.

So all Fabien would have had to do to make VH2 not be a reboot, would have been for all of the characters to have read comic book versions of themselves.

Sounds to me like somebody wants DC Lite.

Actually all Fabian had to do was NOT replace one universe with another using rules set up by DC and Marvel 40 years ago.

Imagine, if only he had edited VALIANT like they were VALIANT comics instead of pretending they were DC or Marvel.

You're not saying "no." So you're saying "yes."

[ManofTheAtom]

Here's a hint, MOTA: It's all fiction. Every bit of it. Including Pre-Unity. It's not real. X-O Manowar can have a three-way crossover with Donald Duck and Flesh Gordon where they attend a MiniKiss concert if that's what they want to do.

That's just the same kind of lame logic that lead to crap like VH 2.

What's the point of VALIANT trying to stand out as the publisher that does things different than DC and Marvel when readers like you just want to read the same thing everywhere you go?

Is it really that hard to keep DC, Marvel, and VALIANT separate from each other?

Why the hell do they all have to do things the same way?

[svair]

Is it really that hard to keep DC, Marvel, and VALIANT separate from each other?

Why the hell do they all have to do things the same way?

Just a little bit of information...

When Shooter left VALIANT his office had to be tidy'd up a bit...

Behind his desk was found a piece of paper that had the following

VALIANT .......DC ..................Marvel

Solar ........... Superman
X-O Manowar.........................Iron Man

I just remember these entries being told to me...but, there was an entry for every character, in Shooter's handwriting....

The paper has since been missplaced, but we are still looking for it...

also, one day Layton came out of his office and said..."DC has Aquaman, Marvel has Namor, ....We need an underwater guy!"...and he went back into his office.

just fyi....

[ManofTheAtom]

Is it really that hard to keep DC, Marvel, and VALIANT separate from each other?

Why the hell do they all have to do things the same way?

Just a little bit of information...

When Shooter left VALIANT his office had to be tidy'd up a bit...

Behind his desk was found a piece of paper that had the following

VALIANT DC Marvel

Solar Superman
X-O Manowar Iron Man

I just remember these entries being told to me...but, there was an entry for every character, in Shooter's handwriting....

The paper has since been missplaced, but we are still looking for it...

also, one day Layton came out of his office and said..."DC has Aquaman, Marvel has Namor, ....We need an underwater guy!"...and he went back into his office.

just fyi....

That's archetype list, which I'm sure exist.

Solar is the Superman of the VALIANT Universe, I've made that comparison more than once, but I'm talking about his status as one of its more important heroes.

Same goes for Magnus and X-O Manowar.

I don't very much Shooter's list was for the purpose of possible crossovers or a guide to imitate the competition's characters.

For example, everyone knows that Aric's more like Conan than Tony Stark.

[svair]

Guess I don't know what your trying to say then...

I interpreted "What's the point of VALIANT trying to stand out as the publisher that does things different than DC and Marvel when readers like you just want to read the same thing everywhere you go? " as you trying to say that the VALIANT charcaters were different than Marvel and DC..

these 3 universe's have the same type of characters...

or are u trying to say something else?

[svair]

Oh...

and Shooter's list was a comparison to see if all areas for characters were covered, like in the other 2 universe's

he just dropped the ball on an underwater guy...Layton tried to remedy that later on by asking for someone to come up with that character...but no one ever did...

[ManofTheAtom]

Guess I don't know what your trying to say then...

I interpreted "What's the point of VALIANT trying to stand out as the publisher that does things different than DC and Marvel when readers like you just want to read the same thing everywhere you go? " as you trying to say that the VALIANT charcaters were different than Marvel and DC..

these 3 universe's have the same type of characters...

or are u trying to say something else?

That depends on how you define the same kind of characters (of course, I wasn't talking about characters, I was talking about the nature of the individual universes, the rules they're guided by, and their individual identity).

For example, one might say that Magnus and Batman are the same kind of character because both trained since they were children to be who they are, but I doubt anyone would ever confuse one with the other, unlike say someone like Supreme with Superman (specially after Alan Moore got done with him).

The nature of the VALIANT universe was "the world outside your window, where Star Trek is a TV show and the X-Men are comic book characters".

The nature of the DC universe... we could be here forever debating that one.

The nature of the Marvel universe... Star Trek meets the X-Men, 'nuff said.

What Heat is saying is that because they're all fiction then it be cool if Dumbo was the captain of the Enterprise and Woody Woodpecker performed open-heart surgery on ER.

What he's forgetting is that despite all of it being fiction Woody and Dumbo are cartoons while Kirk and the staff of the ER are "real people".

Once again, consult the case of "Superman vs Mighty Mouse" to see who won...

[svair]

What Heat is saying is that because they're all fiction then it be cool if Dumbo was the captain of the Enterprise and Woody Woodpecker performed open-heart surgery on ER.

What he's forgetting is that despite all of it being fiction Woody and Dumbo are cartoons while Kirk and the staff of the ER are "real people".

Once again, consult the case of "Superman vs Mighty Mouse" to see who won...

That's funny....

by the way...who won the Supes/Mighty Mouse fight? I never heard of this

[ManofTheAtom]

That's funny....

by the way...who won the Supes/Mighty Mouse fight? I never heard of this

It's from the movie "Stand By Me".

Vern: You think Mighty Mouse could beat up Superman?
Teddy: What are you, cracked?
Vern: No, I saw him on TV the other day, he was holding five elephants in one hand.
Teddy: Boy, you don't know nothing. Mighty Mouse is a cartoon. Superman's a real guy. There's no way a cartoon could beat up a real guy.
Vern: I guess you're right. It'd be a good fight though.

Now imagine if the question was "you think Iron Man could beat up X-O Manowar?".

[x-omatic]

IT IS FUTILE TO RESIST.

[ManofTheAtom]

Remember the movie Last Action Hero?

[Heath]

What Heat [sic] is saying is that because they're all fiction then it be cool if Dumbo was the captain of the Enterprise and Woody Woodpecker performed open-heart surgery on ER.

Yes, that is exactly what I've been trying to say!! I've been writing letters to Paramount for years trying to pitch a new Star Trek series with Dumbo as the captain.



You know, MOTA, I don't think you even know what you're trying to say, much less any of the rest of us.

What he's forgetting is that despite all of it being fiction Woody and Dumbo are cartoons while Kirk and the staff of the ER are "real people".

Reality check. Captain Kirk? He's not a real person. He's imaginary. William Shatner is an actor that has portrayed the fictional character of Captain Kirk on tv and film. William Shatner is an example of "real people." Captain Kirk is an example of "not real people." Captain Kirk and the world he lives in is just as ficticious as Dumbo and Woody Woodpecker.

Once again, consult the case of "Superman vs Mighty Mouse" to see who won...

Superman kicked Mighty Mouse's *SQUEE* all the way to Atlantis. I fail to see your point.

[ManofTheAtom]

Reality check. Captain Kirk? He's not a real person. He's imaginary. William Shatner is an actor that has portrayed the fictional character of Captain Kirk on tv and film. William Shatner is an example of "real people." Captain Kirk is an example of "not real people." Captain Kirk and the world he lives in is just as ficticious as Dumbo and Woody Woodpecker.

You still fail to grasp the point, and as long as you do it'll be clear that what you want is DC Lite and for Dumbo to command the Enterprise.

[Heath]

Vern: You think Mighty Mouse could beat up Superman?
Teddy: What are you, cracked?
Vern: No, I saw him on TV the other day, he was holding five elephants in one hand.
Teddy: Boy, you don't know nothing. Mighty Mouse is a cartoon. Superman's a real guy. There's no way a cartoon could beat up a real guy.
Vern: I guess you're right. It'd be a good fight though.

I always thought the humor in that scene came from the kids thinking Superman was "a real guy."

He's not.

He's a make believe guy.

Just like Mighty Mouse.

Except Mighty Mouse is a make believe mouse, not a guy. But he's a guy mouse. The point is, they're both make believe. Neither is any more or less "real" than the other.

[Heath]

You still fail to grasp the point, and as long as you do it'll be clear that what you want is DC Lite and for Dumbo to command the Enterprise.

I know you are, but what am I?