Valiant Action Figures Please!! :-)

[dellamorte]

No it can't.

A series that has a Goat who's on a first name basis with DC's Legion of Super-Heroes and the leads talk to the audience about the legality of using the "N-Word" has no place in a universe that bills itself as being built on "hard science and a real world setting".

The only way Q&W fits in the VALIANT Universe is if you throw away the hard science and real world setting aspects, and once you do that then it stops being VALIANT, it becomes VH 4.

It's comics you have to use a certain amount of suspension of disbelief. If you can believe in a guy talking to the earth and a guy who never dies and a guy who flies around in alien armor and a guy who has computers in his blood and a guy who can smash robots and a guy who can split into twenty different versions of himself than you can believe in the goat.

It all comes down to execution if it's good it's good if it's crap than it's crap.

Maybe I disagree because all I want are good fun comics to read. It's never going to be pre Unity Valiant again. Just because that boat has sailed doesn't mean that we can't have some great comics come out in the future.

[400yrs]

Tell you what, fellas. Just stop responding to MOTA's posts. It is the same old $hit as last time which will lead nowhere. Stop posting, take away his ammunition. Many of you have seen how utterly pointless it is to discuss this topic with the kid.

PLEASE just stop responding to him and let it die because if you don't he will drone on and on and and on and.... you get the picture.

Just stop... this is not good for the boards.

Yeah, I agree, but he can do this in any topic, unfortunately. How he was able to go off on his usual spiel under a thread about action figures is beyond me.

[ManofTheAtom]

It's comics you have to use a certain amount of suspension of disbelief. If you can believe in a guy talking to the earth and a guy who never dies and a guy who flies around in alien armor and a guy who has computers in his blood and a guy who can smash robots and a guy who can split into twenty different versions of himself than you can believe in the goat.

It all comes down to execution if it's good it's good if it's crap than it's crap.

Maybe I disagree because all I want are good fun comics to read. It's never going to be pre Unity VALIANT again. Just because that boat has sailed doesn't mean that we can't have some great comics come out in the future.

Just because Superman flies it doesn't mean a dog can drive a car.

They are completely separate leaps of logic that aren't at all related to one another (and this is something that I've learned from working with an actual comic book editor, so believe me. Not the Superman/dog thing in specific, but the leap of logic).

Bloodshot's, Geoff's, and Gilad's existance don't justify Vincent's ability to travel to the DC Universe and party with the Legion. Each idea/concept has to be justified by itself, on their own merits.

And if Dino makes it Pre Unity I'm gonna kick his *SQUEE* ( ).

Dino, it's not about Pre Unity, or Post Unity, or Pre Birthquake, or Post Birthquake, or VH 1, or VH 2, or VH My Aching *SQUEE*, it's about VALIANT.

Hard science

Real world setting

Tight continuity

Dead is dead.

And all the cool stuff that got you to spend almost a million dollars on these characters.

Dino, trust me on this, you didn't just buy a bunch of dead copyrights, you're the new keeper of the VALIANT Universe and you have to do right by it. If you can't you would have been much better off spending your million dollars on a lot of R&D for a completely new company made up of VALIANT knock offs.

After all, as it's been pointed out, the entire future of your investment doesn't rest on the shoulders of any of the above attributes of the VALIANT Universe...

... the future of VALIANT depends on Vincent Van Goat

[dellamorte]

Just because Superman flies it doesn't mean a dog can drive a car.

They are completely separate leaps of logic that aren't at all related to one another (and this is something that I've learned from working with an actual comic book editor, so believe me. Not the Superman/dog thing in specific, but the leap of logic).

Bloodshot's, Geoff's, and Gilad's existance don't justify Vincent's ability to travel to the DC Universe and party with the Legion. Each idea/concept has to be justified by itself, on their own merits.

I don't remember the scene you keep bringing up. My guess is that it was a one page joke using the Goats foldmap traveling. Being that Q&W was meant to be a fun/funny book jokes are going to happen. So lets leave that out of the conversation.

As a would be comic book writer you are telling me that in no possible way you could find a reason Q&W could be brought into the Valiant universe? I bet you could and I bet you could make it work. So what makes you think anyone else couldn't do the same thing. Changes would have to be made but changes are going to be made to most every concept when and if new books do come out.

[dellamorte]

And just for the record a dog driving a car is funny.

[ManofTheAtom]

I don't remember the scene you keep bringing up. My guess is that it was a one page joke using the Goats foldmap traveling. Being that Q&W was meant to be a fun/funny book jokes are going to happen. So lets leave that out of the conversation.

As a would be comic book writer you are telling me that in no possible way you could find a reason Q&W could be brought into the VALIANT universe? I bet you could and I bet you could make it work. So what makes you think anyone else couldn't do the same thing. Changes would have to be made but changes are going to be made to most every concept when and if new books do come out.

It's from the HADEUS one shot.

And of course there's ways to bring Q&W to the VALIANT Universe, just like there's ways to bring the Bad Eggs to the VALIANT Universe.

It doesn't mean it should be done.

[ManofTheAtom]

And just for the record a dog driving a car is funny.

Heh.

That's from the Powerpuff Girls.

[dellamorte]

It's from the HADEUS one shot.

And of course there's ways to bring Q&W to the VALIANT Universe, just like there's ways to bring the Bad Eggs to the VALIANT Universe.

It doesn't mean it should be done.

One of the last appearances of a VH1 character happened in Bad Eggs so don't count them out for a relaunch either. Since you and me both had proposals shot down from the new owners we don't get to decide what should be done. We get to watch from the passengers seat and see what if anything happens.

[ManofTheAtom]

One of the last appearances of a VH1 character happened in Bad Eggs so don't count them out for a relaunch either. Since you and me both had proposals shot down from the new owners we don't get to decide what should be done. We get to watch from the passengers seat and see what if anything happens.

I didn't read Bad Eggs. What character was it?

Despite having pitches shot down it doesn't mean we can't have opinions and make them heard (regardless of how much it may offend zombies like Knightt who'll accept anything).

No one else will remind Dino of what made VALIANT what it was, and it's something he needs to keep in mind... but most importantly the idea that things like the Goat and selective continuity are acceptable has to be shot down, otherwise he'll think that that's what he has to do and we'll end up with Birthquake and VH 2 all over again.

[dellamorte]

I didn't read Bad Eggs. What character was it?

Timewalker but I don't remember the issue off hand.

Despite having pitches shot down it doesn't mean we can't have opinions and make them heard (regardless of how much it may offend zombies like Knightt who'll accept anything).

No one else will remind Dino of what made VALIANT what it was, and it's something he needs to keep in mind... but most importantly the idea that things like the Goat and selective continuity are acceptable has to be shot down, otherwise he'll think that that's what he has to do and we'll end up with Birthquake and VH 2 all over again.

I don't think that attacking Knightt or any of the other members is the right choice to make here. I know Chris is very passionate about comics and has his opinions on these subjects as well. The difference is that he doesn't choose to rip into any opinion that doesn't fit his idea of what should be done. And at this time opinion is all we have and none of us will 100% agree on what would make the perfect Valiant line. If you rolled with others ideas you might see that there are a lot of ways the future of these characters could unfold.

I agree that there are basic rules that need to be followed to make a Valiant book but very few ideas should be tossed out. Punx can take place in the Valiant U, Q&W, Troublemakers, Trinity Angles, Armed and Dangerous and a hundred other concepts can fit into the universe. All you have to do is believe and dammit I believe.

[ManofTheAtom]

I didn't read Bad Eggs. What character was it?

Timewalker but I don't remember the issue off hand.

Despite having pitches shot down it doesn't mean we can't have opinions and make them heard (regardless of how much it may offend zombies like Knightt who'll accept anything).

No one else will remind Dino of what made VALIANT what it was, and it's something he needs to keep in mind... but most importantly the idea that things like the Goat and selective continuity are acceptable has to be shot down, otherwise he'll think that that's what he has to do and we'll end up with Birthquake and VH 2 all over again.

I don't think that attacking Knightt or any of the other members is the right choice to make here. I know Chris is very passionate about comics and has his opinions on these subjects as well. The difference is that he doesn't choose to rip into any opinion that doesn't fit his idea of what should be done. And at this time opinion is all we have and none of us will 100% agree on what would make the perfect VALIANT line. If you rolled with others ideas you might see that there are a lot of ways the future of these characters could unfold.

I agree that there are basic rules that need to be followed to make a VALIANT book but very few ideas should be tossed out. Punx can take place in the VALIANT U, Q&W, Troublemakers, Trinity Angles, Armed and Dangerous and a hundred other concepts can fit into the universe. All you have to do is believe and dammit I believe.

Then you want VH 4, man, not VALIANT.

A universe with women whose butts are their most important aspect, goats travel to the DC Universe, and women with breasts bigger than their heads are considered to have substance isn't the VALIANT Universe.

[dellamorte]

Then you want VH 4, man, not VALIANT.

A universe with women whose butts are their most important aspect, goats travel to the DC Universe, and women with breasts bigger than their heads are considered to have substance isn't the VALIANT Universe.

I know I didn't say any of that. If fact I said.

I agree that there are basic rules that need to be followed to make a VALIANT book but very few ideas should be tossed out.

So go you have another argument?

[ManofTheAtom]

I know I didn't say any of that. If fact I said.

You read PunX, so you must have seen the panels with massive closeups of women's *SQUEE*.

So do you have another argument?

Some of the ideas that need to be tossed out are the square pegs in VALIANT's round hole, and Q&W is one of them.

[dellamorte]

You read PunX, so you must have seen the panels with massive closeups of women's *SQUEE*.

I read Punx and saw the panels making fun of the massive closeups of womens *SQUEE*. Making fun of a silly trend in the industry and being the silly trend are opposite ends of the spectrum.

Some of the ideas that need to be tossed out are the square pegs in VALIANT's round hole, and Q&W is one of them.

Is it just that Q&W are VH2? So many VH1 concepts don't fit with your definition but I don't see a war against them.

[ManofTheAtom]

Is it just that Q&W are VH2? So many VH1 concepts don't fit with your definition but I don't see a war against them.

You don't see it because we haven't gotten off this fracking subject yet, heh.

How can we move on to debate crap like the Outcast when we're still debating crap like Vincent Van Goat and his party pals, the Legionnaries?

As for VALIANT becoming the silly trend... sigh, that ship already sailed, I'm afraid.

[dellamorte]

You don't see it because we haven't gotten off this fracking subject yet, heh.

How can we move on to debate crap like the Outcast when we're still debating crap like Vincent Van Goat and his party pals, the Legionnaries?

Please let go of the one page, or was it one panel in the Goat special. From what I've been told by a somewhat unreliable source the Outcast had an important role to play in Secrets of the Valiant U #4. Just because you don't enjoy a book or concept doesn't make it unimportant or unworthy in the universe. I could give a crap about 80% of marvel characters and 95% of DC's doesn't mean that the books don't belong I just don't care.

If Dino gave me control of the Valiant universe I promise you Q&W would be back and so would the Valiant Voice mentioned dead Master Darque and I would kick the *SQUEE* out of you're preconceived notions about what Valiant should be and could be.

[ManofTheAtom]

Please let go of the one page, or was it one panel in the Goat special. From what I've been told by a somewhat unreliable source the Outcast had an important role to play in Secrets of the VALIANT U #4. Just because you don't enjoy a book or concept doesn't make it unimportant or unworthy in the universe. I could give a crap about 80% of marvel characters and 95% of DC's doesn't mean that the books don't belong I just don't care.

If Dino gave me control of the VALIANT universe I promise you Q&W would be back and so would the VALIANT Voice mentioned dead Master Darque and I would kick the *SQUEE* out of you're preconceived notions about what VALIANT should be and could be.

Ahem... how did that line go?

"VALIANT is not..." Chaos?

No, no...

Wait, wait, I know this, I know this.

"VALIANT is not Crossgen!"

No, no, that's not the one.

I know!

"VALIANT is not DC!!"

In other words, "What's Good For The Goose isn't Good For The Gander".

Don't say that because something works at DC it'll work at VALIANT.

It's not about the concepts per se, it's about whether or not they fit in the canvas known as the VALIANT Universe, for which they have to follow certain guidelines, two of which are "hard science" and "real world setting".

Q&W doesn't fit either.

[dellamorte]

Is there any way you would be happy with anything that Dinesh and company do with these properties? Are they doomed from the start in your eyes?

I know Valiant is not DC or Crossgen or any other line of characters. But you should never condemn an idea. The Gold Key Solar was crap and fit none of the Valiant rules yet he became the foundation of the whole damn universe. Nothing is off limits, no opinion is wrong, no character can't fit and by no means does the inclusion of the Q&W make the new Valiant a wannabe DC or Marvel. You don't know how these ideas will be incorporated into the new line (and again I'll add if there even will be a new line).

[slym2none]

And just for the record a dog driving a car is funny.

A monkey would be even funnier.





-slym (monkeys doing human things are ALWAYS funny, IMO)

[ManofTheAtom]

Is there any way you would be happy with anything that Dinesh and company do with these properties? Are they doomed from the start in your eyes?

I know VALIANT is not DC or Crossgen or any other line of characters. But you should never condemn an idea. The Gold Key Solar was crap and fit none of the VALIANT rules yet he became the foundation of the whole damn universe. Nothing is off limits, no opinion is wrong, no character can't fit and by no means does the inclusion of the Q&W make the new VALIANT a wannabe DC or Marvel. You don't know how these ideas will be incorporated into the new line (and again I'll add if there even will be a new line).

They're doomed if he's going to repeat the same mistakes as Layton and Nicieza, one of which would be to pander to the DC and Marvel audiences with DC and Marvel creators on the titles overshadowing the concepts.

Dino has to seek out a more mature audience than the one who gets the average X or Bat comic (there's a reason why Q&W closed with "now you have money to go buy an X-Men or Batman comic").

Hell, he has to find an audience OUTSIDE comics. Most people who buy comics now are those who've been buying for more than a decade, and this an an audience that's been proven to be resistant to ANYTHING new, even when it comes from DC and Marvel.

The VALIANT titles have to appeal to readers a level or two above the average comic book fanboy, mostly book readers who enjoy science fiction novels.

If done right Bloodshot can be an extremely successful espionage/science fiction thriller in comic book form.

Dino should try to get book and TV writers to do the VALIANT comics, forget the Mark Waid's, Kurt Busiek's, and Fabian Niciza's, their greed already killed the company once. He has to look elsewhere for talent.

Creators like those three suffer from the same problem as the fanboys, they're resistant to change, they want all comics to be the same, that's why Ninjak was a Captain Marvel/Spider-Man clone, X-O Manowar was a Captain America/Iron Man rip off, and Troublemakers was an X-Men wanna-be, they don't know any better.

Dino needs creators who can think outside of the box.

As for opinions being wrong, dude, Q&W as is will never fit in VALIANT, and changing to make it fit defeats the purpose as it would stop being the Q&W that people want to read.

[slym2none]

Is there any way you would be happy with anything that Dinesh and company do with these properties? Are they doomed from the start in your eyes?

I know VALIANT is not DC or Crossgen or any other line of characters. But you should never condemn an idea. The Gold Key Solar was crap and fit none of the VALIANT rules yet he became the foundation of the whole damn universe. Nothing is off limits, no opinion is wrong, no character can't fit and by no means does the inclusion of the Q&W make the new VALIANT a wannabe DC or Marvel. You don't know how these ideas will be incorporated into the new line (and again I'll add if there even will be a new line).

Just remember, MOTA can't agree to disagree, as he's "too honest for that." Opinions can't be wrong, unless they don't match MOTA's.



A few people here know how I actually feel about this subject, and the only reason that is relevant is that in most things, I agree with MOTA (and ZWH - believe it or not) when dealing with VALIANT's return. Picking up 10 years later after the last VH-1 issue seems to me the right way to go. That's just my opinion. BUT - I can't say I follow MOTA in his zeal of saying everyone else is either wrong in their OPINIONS (which cannot be wrong, BTW, only agreed or dis-agreed with) or his repetitive notion that anything else is "DC-lite." So, just because what I think should happen doesn't, doesn't mean I won't give it a try. Or, just because VEI doesn't follow my thoughts, doesn't mean it isn't VALIANT. I can see how what made VALIANT so great could be done again from scratch, and if that is how it goes, I hope they succeed. It won't fit my imagination, but then again, most movies made from books don't match my imagination used while reading said book.

I hope someone can learn something from that.

And, for the record - if the new VALIANT just plain sucks, one way or the other, well... at least we have this site.





-slym

[stone384]

Good Lord! Aren't you guys (ALL of you) getting a headache from banging your heads agianst walls? You know what? Never mind! Don't answer my question cause I am DONE with this thread.
m

[Unblessed]

Good Lord! Aren't you guys (ALL of you) getting a headache from banging your heads agianst walls? You know what? Never mind! Don't answer my question cause I am DONE with this thread.
m

[Unblessed]

Lemme exp-LAME it to you. ACK-LAME isn't VALIANT. That's all.

[slym2none]

Lemme exp-LAME it to you. ACK-LAME isn't VALIANT. That's all.

-slym