New members and VcVss/VfVss

[Elveen]

Good day everyone, I just wanted to give my perspective (as a new board member) on the selling, buying, bidding on the VcVss.VfVss books.

Obviously, I am a new board member here, but a long time VALIANT fan, and collector. I bought a majority of my VALIANTS from the shelf at my LSC of from stacks at local comics conventions. I kept my VALIANTS all these years because I loved them (schleping them from move to move while getting rid of other stuff along the way). I am telling you this because I believe there are many more people like me, VALIANT collectors who have just joined the boards, or will (at some time in the future) be joining the boards. The VALIANT books are just so cool, those of us who "were there" when VALIANT happened, are (still) just so effected by the experience (that's is why we have our little community here)

Here is the bottom line, I wish I had a chance to get all of the super, great, special "stuff" that long time board members have had the chance to get like the VcVss/VfVss, (even the original penguins ).

So I (a new board member that loves VALIANT) am interested in somehow, possibly, if I have the money at the time, getting any, a few, some, of even all of these collectables. Most likely that means that someone who has said items, has to sell them.

I also understand why this is a point of contention. I have read the posts and can see the emotion invloved. Some board members feel VERY strong about this topic, which just shows how much they care about: this community, VALIANT, and the other board members.

But my main point is, I would like to have some of these collectibles.(and I would imagine there are other new members and new members to come, that will share my sentiments)

Of course if I were to get them, someone would have to get rid of them, therein lies the issue.

At present, there are some issues on ebay (there is, of course, a thread on this) and I was thinking about bidding. But at the same time I do not want to "go against the community", I do not need the VALIANT Mafia knocking at my door .

I am not a rich man, but I would love to have these books. I have been thinking about this for a few days now, so I just wanted to share.

Lastly, I understand that membership DOES have it's privileges. The reason that most of you have these books is because YOU have been here. This is great for you, but if someone does decide to sell, or trade, or whatever, this gives me (and other new members) a chance to get them. (if I happen to have the $$$$ at the time)

I don't know if I made a point here (I am giving an econ. final in summer school while I write this), but I have been thinking aobut this for a while and just wanted to post.

Thanks,

Chrisitan

[Brother J]

feel free to bid on them. I don't think anyone's blaming the buyers. Just the sellers who are making a profit over what they originally paid for the books.

[Sect]

yeah I hear what you are saying. I don't think there really is a stigma for bidding.

I think people are empathetic or even sympathetic for you to bid (and bid high) it is others who choose to sell that angers others.

[slym2none]

I have stated this before recently, so I'll try to be more succinct. Bidding is no problem, it is the selling for profit. Bidding/buying these projects is like rescuing a family treasure from the pawn shop - sure, you don't want to pay more, but isn't it worth it having it back in "the family???"

But, one kinda has to agree with Dawg - if no-one would bid higher than initial sale price, then there would be no big deal. Unfortunately, an auction format makes that nearly impossible.



And, I will also re-state this joke:

If a non-board member wins one on eBay, they should join the site immediately so they can either be praised or crucified, whichever is most applicable.





-slym (see? The last part is A JOKE)

[Elveen]

Is there any way to find our the original price of these things?

That would be helpful.

[Heath]

I hear what you're saying, Elveen, and part of me agrees with you. I'd just about give my right arm for a Shadowman #8 VcVSS. There are others I would love to have too.

The reason I love these projects is because of what they represent. To me, they're a products of everything that is good about this community. Fans doing something amazingly cool for their fellow fans at no profit (and often a loss) to themselves.

Someone turning around and selling them at a profit is just spitting in the face of this community. It takes all the good things about this board that these projects represent, and tramples all over them just for a few bucks. It's a betrayal of the community in my eyes. If people want a "collectible" to later sell for a profit, then look to Dynamic Forces - not here.

[Elveen]

Heath, I couldn't agree more. It is a community thing. If I were to ever get a project like this, I would never sell it, until I had sold all other things that were sell-able.

But that is me, and I was not here to get the projects originally, so I won't pass judgement on anyone who has or will sell them.

Actually, selfishly, I wouldn't mind if someone was "getting rid" of some of these projects. (but I probably wouldn't have the $$$$ anyway )

[DawgPhan]

Is there any way to find our the original price of these things?

That would be helpful.

If you bid somewhere around $20-30 you are basically around the face value on every project...

[DawgPhan]

Heath, I couldn't agree more. It is a community thing. If I were to ever get a project like this, I would never sell it, until I had sold all other things that were sell-able.

But that is me, and I was not here to get the projects originally, so I won't pass judgement on anyone who has or will sell them.

Actually, selfishly, I wouldn't mind if someone was "getting rid" of some of these projects. (but I probably wouldn't have the $$$$ anyway )

the problem with all of this is that these books were supposed to be a collectible...they were supposed to be something neat for board members to have. the represented a certain period of time and a certain group of people...people buying them that had nothing to do with that time or those people have turned those books into collectibles....when they become collectibles no one gets to say what happens to them.

If we a stigma attached to bidding more than face for these books then we can curtail the creation of the collectible aspect of these projects. collectibles have value and are traded in open markets...keepsakes are just that...something that you keep for the sake of keeping it...

one thing I have been tossing around is this...and it would take policing ourselves. Create a list of folks who currently want each of the projects. Then randomize the list.(just to make it fair)

Then if someone wants to get rid of their copy of the book they can either just sell it to the first person on the list for face value or list it on ebay. If it gets listed on ebay then we bid the book up to the face value and then the first person on the list gets to bid for the winning bid of face value...if anyone else from these boards bids on the books we hammer them. If you jump outta place on any of the books then you lose your place on all of the lists..

Oh and make the lists where no one can be first on all of the lists and that maybe we could work out some way that everyone that wants a project right now could be in the top 5 or so for atleast 1 of the projects.

This way we could create a way of keeping the collectible aspect out of these projects and the person bidding up over face value would know that if they ever wanted to sell it, they would be losing money, and that they wouldnt be welcomed on this board anymore...


now dont get me wrong..I still think that these books are more collectibles than they are a reflection of the community on this board and as such can be bought and sold as any collectible, but I am just thinking out loud and trying to come up with some solution to the problem...

[DawgPhan]

Heath, I couldn't agree more. It is a community thing. If I were to ever get a project like this, I would never sell it, until I had sold all other things that were sell-able.

But that is me, and I was not here to get the projects originally, so I won't pass judgement on anyone who has or will sell them.

Actually, selfishly, I wouldn't mind if someone was "getting rid" of some of these projects. (but I probably wouldn't have the $$$$ anyway )

but yuo would sell it...there in lies the problem...some folks say that you never get to sell it unless it is at face value on this board...

If you have sold everything you have to sell I doubt that face value is what you want for a book that might be "worth" several times that...

[Elveen]

Heath, I couldn't agree more. It is a community thing. If I were to ever get a project like this, I would never sell it, until I had sold all other things that were sell-able.

But that is me, and I was not here to get the projects originally, so I won't pass judgement on anyone who has or will sell them.

Actually, selfishly, I wouldn't mind if someone was "getting rid" of some of these projects. (but I probably wouldn't have the $$$$ anyway )

but yuo would sell it...there in lies the problem...some folks say that you never get to sell it unless it is at face value on this board...

If you have sold everything you have to sell I doubt that face value is what you want for a book that might be "worth" several times that...

First, I would only sell it for an emergency (a need my family had: food. medical, shelter, ect. [and if my family has a need, I WILL MEET IT, and would not care what ANYONE thought in that circumstance])

and, if I had to get rid of it (I am talking about something that I do not even have and probably will never have) I would go to the board and only the board, period.

[Elveen]

Heath, I couldn't agree more. It is a community thing. If I were to ever get a project like this, I would never sell it, until I had sold all other things that were sell-able.

But that is me, and I was not here to get the projects originally, so I won't pass judgement on anyone who has or will sell them.

Actually, selfishly, I wouldn't mind if someone was "getting rid" of some of these projects. (but I probably wouldn't have the $$$$ anyway )

but yuo would sell it...there in lies the problem...some folks say that you never get to sell it unless it is at face value on this board...

If you have sold everything you have to sell I doubt that face value is what you want for a book that might be "worth" several times that...

Again, Dawg I understand this position. I just wanted to state my position

Christian

[Daniel Jackson]

First, I would only sell it for an emergency (a need my family had: food. medical, shelter, ect. [and if my family has a need, I WILL MEET IT, and would not care what ANYONE thought in that circumstance])

and, if I had to get rid of it (I am talking about something that I do not even have and probably will never have) I would go to the board and only the board, period.

Going to the board is the best approach, but a few members have already sold these under the premise of needing money for something or other. If you search some of the threads you can see what kind of reaction they got ( the ones selling for more than cost that is).

Getting your $$$ back is one thing, but remember, when you sign up for these chances are someone else won't get the opportunity to have one because of the limited numbers.

[DawgPhan]

First, I would only sell it for an emergency (a need my family had: food. medical, shelter, ect. [and if my family has a need, I WILL MEET IT, and would not care what ANYONE thought in that circumstance])

and, if I had to get rid of it (I am talking about something that I do not even have and probably will never have) I would go to the board and only the board, period.

Going to the board is the best approach, but a few members have already sold these under the premise of needing money for something or other. If you search some of the threads you can see what kind of reaction they got ( the ones selling for more than cost that is).

Getting your $$$ back is one thing, but remember, when you sign up for these chances are someone else won't get the opportunity to have one because of the limited numbers.

what about the ones that dont sell out immediatly? When you getting one didnt shut someone out? Is it alright to sell those?

[Heath]

No.

[Daniel Jackson]

First, I would only sell it for an emergency (a need my family had: food. medical, shelter, ect. [and if my family has a need, I WILL MEET IT, and would not care what ANYONE thought in that circumstance])

and, if I had to get rid of it (I am talking about something that I do not even have and probably will never have) I would go to the board and only the board, period.

Going to the board is the best approach, but a few members have already sold these under the premise of needing money for something or other. If you search some of the threads you can see what kind of reaction they got ( the ones selling for more than cost that is).

Getting your $$$ back is one thing, but remember, when you sign up for these chances are someone else won't get the opportunity to have one because of the limited numbers.

what about the ones that dont sell out immediatly? When you getting one didnt shut someone out? Is it alright to sell those?

I think there have only been a couple of instances where that was the case. Most of them have had a backup list though. But just for the sake of argument, if there is no alternate list and everyone had the chance to get one then I suppose selling it becomes a moot point. After all, everyone who wanted one got one so why would anyone bid a ridiculous price for something they chose not to get in on in the first place.

[X-O HoboJoe]

OK, but ONLY because I feel like starting a riot:

Let's say that when the new Valiant books come out, they hit really big; around the level of when Bloodshot #1 came out (print- and interest-wise) and they're able to maintain a consistent quality similar to that of the Pre-Unity books.

I know, a major hypothetical, but let's play "what if" and say this or something close happens. (IOW, if you think this is possible or not is moot, because in the future hobo-verse, it has occurred.)

Now what happens to the Vc and VfVSS's, esp. the Magnus 0, of which there are only 40 copies and could technically be considered the first of the new Valiant books (big stretch here, but somebody somewhere would market it as such) given the names on the book?

What does this do to the others? What impact would 20-30 more completists with deep pockets do to the perceived value? Would it only impact the Magnus 0 or would they all become Bloodshot Platinum expensive?

[Daniel Jackson]

OK, but ONLY because I feel like starting a riot:

Let's say that when the new VALIANT books come out, they hit really big; around the level of when Bloodshot #1 came out (print- and interest-wise) and they're able to maintain a consistent quality similar to that of the Pre-Unity books.

I know, a major hypothetical, but let's play "what if" and say this or something close happens. (IOW, if you think this is possible or not is moot, because in the future hobo-verse, it has occurred.)

Now what happens to the Vc and VfVSS's, esp. the Magnus 0, of which there are only 40 copies and could technically be considered the first of the new VALIANT books (big stretch here, but somebody somewhere would market it as such) given the names on the book?

What does this do to the others? What impact would 20-30 more completists with deep pockets do to the perceived value? Would it only impact the Magnus 0 or would they all become Bloodshot Platinum expensive?

Darn your Hobo logic!!!

[X-O HoboJoe]

OK, but ONLY because I feel like starting a riot:

Let's say that when the new VALIANT books come out, they hit really big; around the level of when Bloodshot #1 came out (print- and interest-wise) and they're able to maintain a consistent quality similar to that of the Pre-Unity books.

I know, a major hypothetical, but let's play "what if" and say this or something close happens. (IOW, if you think this is possible or not is moot, because in the future hobo-verse, it has occurred.)

Now what happens to the Vc and VfVSS's, esp. the Magnus 0, of which there are only 40 copies and could technically be considered the first of the new VALIANT books (big stretch here, but somebody somewhere would market it as such) given the names on the book?

What does this do to the others? What impact would 20-30 more completists with deep pockets do to the perceived value? Would it only impact the Magnus 0 or would they all become Bloodshot Platinum expensive?

Darn your Hobo logic!!!

It's a Hobo, Hobo world.

[Daniel Jackson]

OK, but ONLY because I feel like starting a riot:

Let's say that when the new VALIANT books come out, they hit really big; around the level of when Bloodshot #1 came out (print- and interest-wise) and they're able to maintain a consistent quality similar to that of the Pre-Unity books.

I know, a major hypothetical, but let's play "what if" and say this or something close happens. (IOW, if you think this is possible or not is moot, because in the future hobo-verse, it has occurred.)

Now what happens to the Vc and VfVSS's, esp. the Magnus 0, of which there are only 40 copies and could technically be considered the first of the new VALIANT books (big stretch here, but somebody somewhere would market it as such) given the names on the book?

What does this do to the others? What impact would 20-30 more completists with deep pockets do to the perceived value? Would it only impact the Magnus 0 or would they all become Bloodshot Platinum expensive?

Darn your Hobo logic!!!

It's a Hobo, Hobo world.

That's it, I'm getting off this planet.....

[DawgPhan]

OK, but ONLY because I feel like starting a riot:

Let's say that when the new VALIANT books come out, they hit really big; around the level of when Bloodshot #1 came out (print- and interest-wise) and they're able to maintain a consistent quality similar to that of the Pre-Unity books.

I know, a major hypothetical, but let's play "what if" and say this or something close happens. (IOW, if you think this is possible or not is moot, because in the future hobo-verse, it has occurred.)

Now what happens to the Vc and VfVSS's, esp. the Magnus 0, of which there are only 40 copies and could technically be considered the first of the new VALIANT books (big stretch here, but somebody somewhere would market it as such) given the names on the book?

What does this do to the others? What impact would 20-30 more completists with deep pockets do to the perceived value? Would it only impact the Magnus 0 or would they all become Bloodshot Platinum expensive?

alright...I might be happy knowing that I have several $1000 books in my collection...however what happens when the wife finds out that you have several $1000 books in your collection that you might have only paid $30 for...

I am sure that she would see a brand new couch sitting in my office doing nothing, instead of the precious reminder of times gone by....

[DawgPhan]

oh and if 20-30 deep pocket completionist hit this board it would probably change a lot of opinions and probably ruin the vcvss/vfvss thing...

[X-O HoboJoe]

OK, but ONLY because I feel like starting a riot:

Let's say that when the new VALIANT books come out, they hit really big; around the level of when Bloodshot #1 came out (print- and interest-wise) and they're able to maintain a consistent quality similar to that of the Pre-Unity books.

I know, a major hypothetical, but let's play "what if" and say this or something close happens. (IOW, if you think this is possible or not is moot, because in the future hobo-verse, it has occurred.)

Now what happens to the Vc and VfVSS's, esp. the Magnus 0, of which there are only 40 copies and could technically be considered the first of the new VALIANT books (big stretch here, but somebody somewhere would market it as such) given the names on the book?

What does this do to the others? What impact would 20-30 more completists with deep pockets do to the perceived value? Would it only impact the Magnus 0 or would they all become Bloodshot Platinum expensive?

alright...I might be happy knowing that I have several $1000 books in my collection...however what happens when the wife finds out that you have several $1000 books in your collection that you might have only paid $30 for...

I am sure that she would see a brand new couch sitting in my office doing nothing, instead of the precious reminder of times gone by....

In Hobo-world, we don't tell our wives how much the comics are worth.

[DawgPhan]

OK, but ONLY because I feel like starting a riot:

Let's say that when the new VALIANT books come out, they hit really big; around the level of when Bloodshot #1 came out (print- and interest-wise) and they're able to maintain a consistent quality similar to that of the Pre-Unity books.

I know, a major hypothetical, but let's play "what if" and say this or something close happens. (IOW, if you think this is possible or not is moot, because in the future hobo-verse, it has occurred.)

Now what happens to the Vc and VfVSS's, esp. the Magnus 0, of which there are only 40 copies and could technically be considered the first of the new VALIANT books (big stretch here, but somebody somewhere would market it as such) given the names on the book?

What does this do to the others? What impact would 20-30 more completists with deep pockets do to the perceived value? Would it only impact the Magnus 0 or would they all become Bloodshot Platinum expensive?

alright...I might be happy knowing that I have several $1000 books in my collection...however what happens when the wife finds out that you have several $1000 books in your collection that you might have only paid $30 for...

I am sure that she would see a brand new couch sitting in my office doing nothing, instead of the precious reminder of times gone by....

In Hobo-world, we don't tell our wives how much the comics are worth.

good idea...then they dont know which ones to pee on....

[X-O HoboJoe]

oh and if 20-30 deep pocket completionist hit this board it would probably change a lot of opinions and probably ruin the vcvss/vfvss thing...

Agreed. Do you see anything besides a successful relaunch bringing in that much interest?