What exactly is a Valiant Continuity Bible?

[Unblessed]

I just gotta know: WWZD? What Would ZWH Do?

~Unblessed

[Vault-Keeper]

That's the part I don't get about your whole argument.

Ethics vs finances. Who's on what side?

Was it ethical to copy and distribute the bible? No, it says so right there on the cover.

Was it ethical for Layton and Vanhook to sell their copies? One could argue that it wasn't since it also says not to do it, but they were part of the team that came up with it, so surely they could ignore their own rule and also grant permission to other people to make copies and give them away for free or even sell, no?

I know that if it had been me I would have been conflicted about the whole thing.

On the one hand I'd want to share the knowledge with other VALIANT fans, but on the other I wouldn't have wanted to break the rules that clearly appear on the cover.

After buying the copy from Bob Layton, and getting his approval to copy, I wrote two e-mail letters to Acclaim, which went unanswered. At about that same time, I exchanged several e-mails with Kevin VanHook about the matter. He also gave approval, seeing that I wasn't making a profit from the project. (Bob, on the other hand, didn't care if I did make a profit off of it). I figured that if the surviving persons connected to the work didn't mind, and Acclaim wouldn't respond at all, then there shouldn't be any problems. I was wrong. This is where I started having problems with certain board members who already had copies. I looked at my copies as being under the 'fair use' catagory. No one profitted but the fans who finally got the chance to read it. If anything, I lost money on several packages due to varying postal costs. I charged a flat $5 for postage, which was included in the $30 total cost. Many cost more to send, at my expense. Victimized once again....Ah, me!:thumb:

DINO wrote to me last June, and said he didn't care if I made copies if I just gave them away for free. I told him I was doing them at cost...you know, the same deal I offered him when he got a 1st Print copy from me in May 2004, ...but that wasn't good enough anymore. If I wanted to distribute it, I had to bear all the costs myself. Well, I'd love to be everyone's Secret Santa with this, but I just ain't rich, folks! So you can all thank the Big D on that one!---Steve

[Unblessed]

DINO wrote to me last June, and said he didn't care if I made copies if I just gave them away for free. I told him I was doing them at cost...you know, the same deal I offered him when he got a 1st Print copy from me in May 2004, ...but that wasn't good enough anymore. If I wanted to distribute it, I had to bear all the costs myself. Well, I'd love to be everyone's Secret Santa with this, but I just ain't rich, folks! So you can all thank the Big D on that one!---Steve

But what does his mom and the two other owners think of you making copies?

~Unblessed

[Vault-Keeper]

DINO wrote to me last June, and said he didn't care if I made copies if I just gave them away for free. I told him I was doing them at cost...you know, the same deal I offered him when he got a 1st Print copy from me in May 2004, ...but that wasn't good enough anymore. If I wanted to distribute it, I had to bear all the costs myself. Well, I'd love to be everyone's Secret Santa with this, but I just ain't rich, folks! So you can all thank the Big D on that one!---Steve

But what does his mom and the two other owners think of you making copies?

~Unblessed

I figured he must be speaking for everyone involved, or he wouldn't have said anything at all. I have the e-mails saved for reference.---Steve

[ckb]

I'll be happy when/if the VCB is published in a responsible fashion, and the IP issues have been solved for everyone involved.

As much as I'd like to have a copy of it, I hope it's never, ever, ever, ever published.

Instead I hope the new owners use it as the basis to revive the VALIANT Universe and keep it secret and away from the fans.

Ah, but like Magnus said earlier in the thread, the 'secret' tidbit is a rarity in the work. It really was meant to be used as a reference manual/fact-checker/get-up-to-speed-with-what-happened-in-the-past kinda thing. It is primarily a succinct summary of the plot elements and events that occurred in each issue.

There 's no need to hide it. Anyone with the books could compile such a voulme themselves. Now I do admit it does have an interesting perspective to it, being written from the inside, that you could not duplicate externally. But it would not compromise anything to have it published.

[ckb]

Like we are all forced to use crack because our life sucks, we are also forced to unwisely copy and distribute Intellectual Property that we do not own.

And my rage is not directed at you specifically for being naive in thinking that you were doing everyone a favor in copying and distributing the work, it is with the whole set of events surrounding the VCB...

Yeah, why don't you put VanHook on ignore also? After all, he made unethical copies off your copy, before you even got it. He was just as wrong as me for making copies....wasn't he?

I don't feel an ounce of guilt for what I did, either. I was given approval by Bob Layton first, then Kevin VanHook, later on, when he sent me a copy of the Book of Geomancers last year.

BTW, I'm glad you were able to sell your original copy without losing your investment, as it seems that was your main concern when I started making my copies. (Did you have a personal copy made before you sent it off?...I would have) I'm even happier that Kevin's copy went to MagnusR. I couldn't think of a better home for it. ---Steve

I was not happy with what KVH did. I'm sure he will remember. By providing me with documentation he took care of it.

Yes, and of course I was trying to protect the $350 I spent on the VCB. I felt the copies would devalue it. So far I have been mistaken on that, although I do not hold much hope for the future. The documentation of the source of the VCB was more valuable in many ways than the book itself. I did not expect this to ever be the case.

For the record, I did not make a copy of the VCB before sending it to Sweeden.

Guilt is something we have to deal with ourselves, and if you are not feeling guilty over your (self-proclaimed) error, that's fine. You apparently feel that you did a good enough CYA job. I never suggested you should be guilty. Your association with being on ignore and the VCB issue is incorrect. It is something else entirely.

[ManofTheAtom]

Ah, but like Magnus said earlier in the thread, the 'secret' tidbit is a rarity in the work. It really was meant to be used as a reference manual/fact-checker/get-up-to-speed-with-what-happened-in-the-past kinda thing. It is primarily a succinct summary of the plot elements and events that occurred in each issue.

There 's no need to hide it. Anyone with the books could compile such a voulme themselves. Now I do admit it does have an interesting perspective to it, being written from the inside, that you could not duplicate externally. But it would not compromise anything to have it published.

Let me ask you something. I think I read it when Chris showed me his copy, but I don't remember.

What does it say about Shadowman in 99? heh

He dies, right? Without question or loophole, right? Same for Archer and Bloodshot?

[justin]

Let me ask you something. I think I read it when Chris showed me his copy, but I don't remember.

What does it say about Shadowman in 99? heh

He dies, right? Without question or loophole, right? Same for Archer and Bloodshot?

Archer and Armstrong were to be brought back as women after Chaos Effect! I could do a little digging, as to exactly how once I get home.

-j

[ManofTheAtom]

Lol

That's a joke, right?

[justin]

Lol

That's a joke, right?

Nope! Bernard can vouch for that as he drew them for the return!

-j

[ManofTheAtom]

No way VALIANT was so out of control that they were going to rip off Liefeld's Babewatch, lol.

Of course if you are going to draw them as women Bernard is a good choice to do it.

[Unblessed]

I smell a reboot coming on.

No, wait, VK, MotA, CKB, and Arch are having a fart contest.

~Unblessed

[ManofTheAtom]

Pfft, I win that easy.

[ckb]

Uncle!! UNCLE!!!

Pfft, I win that easy.

[ManofTheAtom]

Lol.

[oldjello]

I'd just like to see what the VCB was all about... what it contained, etc. It just seemed interesting.

(putting on black ninja suit)