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 Post subject: Solar 11 pg 7
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 12:33:45 am 
Nice art! (I used to own that.)
Nice art! (I used to own that.)
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Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:11:13 am
Posts: 4823
Location: Nebraska!
Valiant fan since: 1992
Favorite character: Bloodshot
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Favorite artist: Lewis LaRosa
Solar 11 page 7. I've had this page for a few years. I think I got
it off ebay. It's been awhile since I thought about it, but I've noticed
some subtle differences from the art page compared to the printed
page. Breakdowns are credited to Steve Ditko, finishes by Ted Halsted with inks by Gonzalo Mayo.
Is the page I have legit? Perhaps it wasn't approved and redone?
Any ideas or suggestions? On the back of the page it's written in pencil
"Ditko pencils/layout" and is signed by Mayo.

Panel 1
Image

Image

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Last edited by sonicdan on Fri Sep 09, 2005 12:36:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 12:34:44 am 
Nice art! (I used to own that.)
Nice art! (I used to own that.)
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Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:11:13 am
Posts: 4823
Location: Nebraska!
Valiant fan since: 1992
Favorite character: Bloodshot
Favorite title: Harbinger
Favorite writer: Joshua Dysart
Favorite artist: Lewis LaRosa
Panel 2
Image

Image

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 12:35:17 am 
Nice art! (I used to own that.)
Nice art! (I used to own that.)
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Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:11:13 am
Posts: 4823
Location: Nebraska!
Valiant fan since: 1992
Favorite character: Bloodshot
Favorite title: Harbinger
Favorite writer: Joshua Dysart
Favorite artist: Lewis LaRosa
Panel 3
Image

Image

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 12:41:02 am 
not unlike me
not unlike me
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Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 10:39:27 am
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Favorite character: Depends on title
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Favorite artist: Depends on character
In San Diego, Sean Chen told a story about how some of the Valiant employees
who weren't making much money at the time used to "create" original art
by inking pages themselves and selling them.

I'm not saying this is not the original-original art...
but if it was known that "other inkers" created pages,
then it should be considered anytime there's a question.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 1:10:40 am 
Wanna see an unpublished Shadowman page?
Wanna see an unpublished Shadowman page?
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Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 1:18:28 am
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Location: Scoot over, I have to get in behind you.
Valiant fan since: 1991
Greg has a point it was a very EYE opening story.

Another solution might be redraws....In the art I bought from Calafiore there were several pages exactly the same but made with different changes to them.....One thing I noticed was the unused page had NO traces of paste up word ballons on it. While the used page had all the bells & wistels....they were all there. The pages looked like they would have been used in the printing because they are inked completly like a finished page.
Even the header tells you the issue and the page number with NO indication it wasn't used.

-Brian

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 1:11:15 am 
Nice art! (I used to own that.)
Nice art! (I used to own that.)
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:11:13 am
Posts: 4823
Location: Nebraska!
Valiant fan since: 1992
Favorite character: Bloodshot
Favorite title: Harbinger
Favorite writer: Joshua Dysart
Favorite artist: Lewis LaRosa
greg wrote:
In San Diego, Sean Chen told a story about how some of the Valiant employees
who weren't making much money at the time used to "create" original art
by inking pages themselves and selling them.

I'm not saying this is not the original-original art...
but if it was known that "other inkers" created pages,
then it should be considered anytime there's a question.




Greg,
Yes that is definitely something to consider and kind of scary to think about.
I have sent an email with pix to Bob Layton to see if he has any ideas
or recollections. He is credited as the editor of the book.
The page appears to be authentic in comparison to other early Solar pages I have. The Mayo sig looks like his style.
If it was a "redo" by another inker, I think the page would be a bit "cleaner".
There is pencil work that is seen under & around the inks
that looks consistent with other Ditko Valiant pages I have or have seen.
I think this along with Solar #8 is one of the earlier Valiant books Mayo
inked. On other early Valiant inked pages stuff like light effects, flames, etc. were left uninked and done during the color art process.
Perhaps Mayo was not quite aware of this process and inked the flames anyway.
It could be that he had to redo some pages and this could be a rejected piece.
That's currently my own theory. I'm interested in any other comments or ideas.
Thanks a lot!
DAN

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 1:18:14 am 
Nice art! (I used to own that.)
Nice art! (I used to own that.)
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:11:13 am
Posts: 4823
Location: Nebraska!
Valiant fan since: 1992
Favorite character: Bloodshot
Favorite title: Harbinger
Favorite writer: Joshua Dysart
Favorite artist: Lewis LaRosa
betterthanezra wrote:
Greg has a point it was a very EYE opening story.

Another solution might be redraws....In the art I bought from Calafiore there were several pages exactly the same but made with different changes to them.....One thing I noticed was the unused page had NO traces of paste up word ballons on it. While the used page had all the bells & wistels....they were all there. The pages looked like they would have been used in the printing because they are inked completly like a finished page.
Even the header tells you the issue and the page number with NO indication it wasn't used.

-Brian


Brian,
Good points as well. Yes, there is no evidence of any paste-ups, word ballons, stats, etc. on this page at all.
That would likely suggest that it could very well be a rejected page that had to be redone.
So while it may not be the published version, I do think it is still
Ditko/Halsted/Mayo original art.
Thanks for the comments, I hadn't thought about the lack of paste-ups.
DAN

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 1:26:34 am 
Wanna see an unpublished Shadowman page?
Wanna see an unpublished Shadowman page?
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Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 1:18:28 am
Posts: 11805
Location: Scoot over, I have to get in behind you.
Valiant fan since: 1991
I agree with you Dan it's definitly Ditko/Mayo......

I wonder how much art is out there like this...... It's still very nice :thumb:

I'll share my examples from Armorines #1 this weekend some panels are exactly the same others show a slightly different perspective ......in a different angle.

-Brian

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viewtopic.php?f=15&t=6932


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 1:34:41 am 
Nice art! (I used to own that.)
Nice art! (I used to own that.)
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:11:13 am
Posts: 4823
Location: Nebraska!
Valiant fan since: 1992
Favorite character: Bloodshot
Favorite title: Harbinger
Favorite writer: Joshua Dysart
Favorite artist: Lewis LaRosa
betterthanezra wrote:
I agree with you Dan it's definitly Ditko/Mayo......

I wonder how much art is out there like this...... It's still very nice :thumb:

I'll share my examples from Armorines #1 this weekend some panels are exactly the same others show a slightly different perspective ......in a different angle.

-Brian


Right on. Yeah I'll look forward to seeing some Armorines comparisons.
I have some rejected pages from Secret Weapons #1 that I got from
Joe. St. Pierre. Looking at them it's no surprise either as the rejects were pretty amatuerish.
I can just see an editor telling him they look like *SQUEE* and to redo them.
DAN

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 1:43:01 am 
Wanna see an unpublished Shadowman page?
Wanna see an unpublished Shadowman page?
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 1:18:28 am
Posts: 11805
Location: Scoot over, I have to get in behind you.
Valiant fan since: 1991
sonicdan wrote:
betterthanezra wrote:
I agree with you Dan it's definitly Ditko/Mayo......

I wonder how much art is out there like this...... It's still very nice :thumb:

I'll share my examples from Armorines #1 this weekend some panels are exactly the same others show a slightly different perspective ......in a different angle.

-Brian


Right on. Yeah I'll look forward to seeing some Armorines comparisons.
I have some rejected pages from Secret Weapons #1 that I got from
Joe. St. Pierre. Looking at them it's no surprise either as the rejects were pretty amatuerish.
I can just see an editor telling him they look like *SKREE* and to redo them.
DAN


Speaking of rejected pages....... :D I'll share the most FAMOUS rejected page EVER for a Valiant/Acclaim book this weekend......yeah my Avatar is a hint...... :wink:
(famous in my eyes by the way...it's defin. the most shocking :thumb: )

-Brian

_________________
STUFF I'm selling on Ebay here

http://stores.shop.ebay.com/Shadowsip-c ... QQ_armrsZ1

I'm on Twitter follow me

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My Valiant story here

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=6932


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 2:23:09 am 
Nice art! (I used to own that.)
Nice art! (I used to own that.)
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:11:13 am
Posts: 4823
Location: Nebraska!
Valiant fan since: 1992
Favorite character: Bloodshot
Favorite title: Harbinger
Favorite writer: Joshua Dysart
Favorite artist: Lewis LaRosa
betterthanezra wrote:

Speaking of rejected pages....... :D I'll share the most FAMOUS rejected page EVER for a Valiant/Acclaim book this weekend......yeah my Avatar is a hint...... :wink:
(famous in my eyes by the way...it's defin. the most shocking :thumb: )

-Brian



Poor (one-eyed) Jack!
:o :lol: :P :thumb: :wink:
DAN

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 Post subject: Re: Solar 11 pg 7
PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 12:47:13 am 
Did someone call for a Hired Gun?
Did someone call for a Hired Gun?
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Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 5:00:41 pm
Posts: 6170
Location: Phoenix, AZ
[quote="sonicdan"]Solar 11 page 7. I've had this page for a few years. I think I got
it off ebay. It's been awhile since I thought about it, but I've noticed
some subtle differences from the art page compared to the printed
page. Breakdowns are credited to Steve Ditko, finishes by Ted Halsted with inks by Gonzalo Mayo.
Is the page I have legit? Perhaps it wasn't approved and redone?
Any ideas or suggestions? On the back of the page it's written in pencil
"Ditko pencils/layout" and is signed by Mayo.

I think it is pretty clear that the inks are different. Since we know that sometimes inkers, pencilers, and colorists helped with deadlines, maybe 2 inkers did the same page by mistake?

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