SCHISM from DEFIANT - Kickstarter ft. Jim Shooter, David Lapham

[Ryan]

Is DW Classics the current owner of Defiant? Has DW Classics approved this Kickstarter?

I want to believe, guys.

From my understanding DW Classics owns the Broadway Comics, Defiant Comics and Gold Key Comics properties, along with many other properties including Waldo.

[JonesyAZ]

I hope that if this kickstarter is successful that all involved do the right thing legally. I hate when folks turn something that should be a positive and inspiring event into a negative experience. I’m trusting and like Chiclo said, I want to believe, too.

[ManofTheAtom]

I don’t know who owns the rights now, but I figured that a one shot fan project like the Schism Kickstarter falls under a legal area like all those Star Trek fan films. What’s the deal with all those? Because Star Trek is a much more hotly defended trademark than anything Defiant. Some of those films were even Kickstartered. It would be kind of awesome if this Schism project turned into something that created new Defiant content, though. 

-- Jay Jay Jackson

[RyanMcLelland]

I don’t know who owns the rights now, but I figured that a one shot fan project like the Schism Kickstarter falls under a legal area like all those Star Trek fan films. What’s the deal with all those? Because Star Trek is a much more hotly defended trademark than anything Defiant. Some of those films were even Kickstartered. It would be kind of awesome if this Schism project turned into something that created new Defiant content, though. 

-- Jay Jay Jackson

Well you can’t just make a fan project for anything. Yes there are Kickstarters and such for Star Trek and Star Wars fan movies - the studios allow them as long as no one makes money off of it. Theres also videos like Death Battle which takes two different characters, animates them (or once in a long while live action), and have them battle. I do believe that the content on YouTube has those videos make money - I’m not sure of the legality about that.

But no one makes Batman or Spider-Man comics and Kickstarts them. I could be wrong but I’ve never seen a project where someone just makes a Batman comic even as a fan project. I’m sure DC would step right in. So it toes the line on what’s allowed and what isn’t depending on the medium and if people get paid from it.

From what I understand - Schism isn’t a fan project. Unfortunately the Powers That Be (Broadway reference) aren’t sharing information because it sounds like some ducks are being put in a row. So there are answers but nothing right now. That makes people question the project - which was myself included. Was. Now I’m ready to wait and see where everything goes. I understand that peeps want to know what’s up with the rights - but it just sounds like that info is forthcoming.

It sounds like JJ isn’t in the know or doesn’t want to spoil the surprise either. I’m happy she gave her time to plot the project and give her time to make it successful.

At this point the Kickstarter had another…5/6 weeks and has a long way to go in terms of reaching its goal. I just hope they get there. And if not for some reason that there’s a plan in place on how to move forward with this project.

[ManofTheAtom]

I don’t know who owns the rights now, but I figured that a one shot fan project like the Schism Kickstarter falls under a legal area like all those Star Trek fan films. What’s the deal with all those? Because Star Trek is a much more hotly defended trademark than anything Defiant. Some of those films were even Kickstartered. It would be kind of awesome if this Schism project turned into something that created new Defiant content, though. 

-- Jay Jay Jackson

Well you can’t just make a fan project for anything. Yes there are Kickstarters and such for Star Trek and Star Wars fan movies - the studios allow them as long as no one makes money off of it. Theres also videos like Death Battle which takes two different characters, animates them (or once in a long while live action), and have them battle. I do believe that the content on YouTube has those videos make money - I’m not sure of the legality about that.

But no one makes Batman or Spider-Man comics and Kickstarts them. I could be wrong but I’ve never seen a project where someone just makes a Batman comic even as a fan project. I’m sure DC would step right in. So it toes the line on what’s allowed and what isn’t depending on the medium and if people get paid from it.

From what I understand - Schism isn’t a fan project. Unfortunately the Powers That Be (Broadway reference) aren’t sharing information because it sounds like some ducks are being put in a row. So there are answers but nothing right now. That makes people question the project - which was myself included. Was. Now I’m ready to wait and see where everything goes. I understand that peeps want to know what’s up with the rights - but it just sounds like that info is forthcoming.

It sounds like JJ isn’t in the know or doesn’t want to spoil the surprise either. I’m happy she gave her time to plot the project and give her time to make it successful.

At this point the Kickstarter had another…5/6 weeks and has a long way to go in terms of reaching its goal. I just hope they get there. And if not for some reason that there’s a plan in place on how to move forward with this project.

It is funny that someone like Bat In The Sun could do a live-action video showing Magnus from VALIANT fighting Charlemagne from Defiant without asking permission from the rights owners and even monetize it but not publish a Magnus or Charlemagne comic without licensing the rights...

[RyanMcLelland]

I don’t know who owns the rights now, but I figured that a one shot fan project like the Schism Kickstarter falls under a legal area like all those Star Trek fan films. What’s the deal with all those? Because Star Trek is a much more hotly defended trademark than anything Defiant. Some of those films were even Kickstartered. It would be kind of awesome if this Schism project turned into something that created new Defiant content, though. 

-- Jay Jay Jackson

Well you can’t just make a fan project for anything. Yes there are Kickstarters and such for Star Trek and Star Wars fan movies - the studios allow them as long as no one makes money off of it. Theres also videos like Death Battle which takes two different characters, animates them (or once in a long while live action), and have them battle. I do believe that the content on YouTube has those videos make money - I’m not sure of the legality about that.

But no one makes Batman or Spider-Man comics and Kickstarts them. I could be wrong but I’ve never seen a project where someone just makes a Batman comic even as a fan project. I’m sure DC would step right in. So it toes the line on what’s allowed and what isn’t depending on the medium and if people get paid from it.

From what I understand - Schism isn’t a fan project. Unfortunately the Powers That Be (Broadway reference) aren’t sharing information because it sounds like some ducks are being put in a row. So there are answers but nothing right now. That makes people question the project - which was myself included. Was. Now I’m ready to wait and see where everything goes. I understand that peeps want to know what’s up with the rights - but it just sounds like that info is forthcoming.

It sounds like JJ isn’t in the know or doesn’t want to spoil the surprise either. I’m happy she gave her time to plot the project and give her time to make it successful.

At this point the Kickstarter had another…5/6 weeks and has a long way to go in terms of reaching its goal. I just hope they get there. And if not for some reason that there’s a plan in place on how to move forward with this project.

It is funny that someone like Bat In The Sun could do a live-action video showing Magnus from VALIANT fighting Charlemagne from Defiant without asking permission from the rights owners and even monetize it but not publish a Magnus or Charlemagne comic without licensing the rights...

I’m unfamiliar about the monetization practices of Bat in the Sun or Death Battle. Death Battle did a live action Winter Soldier vs. Red Hood and I’m completely unsure of how they do something like that and be able to make money from it. I’m sure, at any time, Marvel and DC could copyright strike it.

Bat in the Sun has done their Super Power Beatup series (was Batman vs Darth Vader theirs???) and I’m not sure how they. Pull monetize that. It’s a slippery slope as you put all that money into it and then it could be taken down immediately if someone sees it.

So yeah - a Charlemagne vs Magnus video could happen. But I’m not sure drawing a Charlemagne Vs Magnus comic would go over.

We live in a weird time for sure.

[ManofTheAtom]

I’m unfamiliar about the monetization practices of Bat in the Sun or Death Battle. Death Battle did a live action Winter Soldier vs. Red Hood and I’m completely unsure of how they do something like that and be able to make money from it. I’m sure, at any time, Marvel and DC could copyright strike it.

Bat in the Sun has done their Super Power Beatup series (was Batman vs Darth Vader theirs???) and I’m not sure how they. Pull monetize that. It’s a slippery slope as you put all that money into it and then it could be taken down immediately if someone sees it.

So yeah - a Charlemagne vs Magnus video could happen. But I’m not sure drawing a Charlemagne Vs Magnus comic would go over.

We live in a weird time for sure.

Yes, Batman vs Darth Vader was Bat in The Sun. They also did Ninjak vs The VALIANT Universe but that was a legit production.

[The Chosen 1]

I’m unfamiliar about the monetization practices of Bat in the Sun or Death Battle. Death Battle did a live action Winter Soldier vs. Red Hood and I’m completely unsure of how they do something like that and be able to make money from it. I’m sure, at any time, Marvel and DC could copyright strike it.

Bat in the Sun has done their Super Power Beatup series (was Batman vs Darth Vader theirs???) and I’m not sure how they. Pull monetize that. It’s a slippery slope as you put all that money into it and then it could be taken down immediately if someone sees it.

So yeah - a Charlemagne vs Magnus video could happen. But I’m not sure drawing a Charlemagne Vs Magnus comic would go over.

We live in a weird time for sure.

Yes, Batman vs Darth Vader was Bat in The Sun. They also did Ninjak vs The VALIANT Universe but that was a legit production.

If no-one actually owns the rights to the IP, does thatr make it public domain? And if it's public domain, then basically anyone can use the IP for any project they want and not have to pay the original owners/artists etc?

[ManofTheAtom]

I’m unfamiliar about the monetization practices of Bat in the Sun or Death Battle. Death Battle did a live action Winter Soldier vs. Red Hood and I’m completely unsure of how they do something like that and be able to make money from it. I’m sure, at any time, Marvel and DC could copyright strike it.

Bat in the Sun has done their Super Power Beatup series (was Batman vs Darth Vader theirs???) and I’m not sure how they. Pull monetize that. It’s a slippery slope as you put all that money into it and then it could be taken down immediately if someone sees it.

So yeah - a Charlemagne vs Magnus video could happen. But I’m not sure drawing a Charlemagne Vs Magnus comic would go over.

We live in a weird time for sure.

Yes, Batman vs Darth Vader was Bat in The Sun. They also did Ninjak vs The VALIANT Universe but that was a legit production.

If no-one actually owns the rights to the IP, does thatr make it public domain? And if it's public domain, then basically anyone can use the IP for any project they want and not have to pay the original owners/artists etc?

The IP would need to be abandoned, or the copyright not renewed, or a certain amount of time must have passed after its original registration for it to become part of the public domain I think.

[Chiclo]

I’m unfamiliar about the monetization practices of Bat in the Sun or Death Battle. Death Battle did a live action Winter Soldier vs. Red Hood and I’m completely unsure of how they do something like that and be able to make money from it. I’m sure, at any time, Marvel and DC could copyright strike it.

Bat in the Sun has done their Super Power Beatup series (was Batman vs Darth Vader theirs???) and I’m not sure how they. Pull monetize that. It’s a slippery slope as you put all that money into it and then it could be taken down immediately if someone sees it.

So yeah - a Charlemagne vs Magnus video could happen. But I’m not sure drawing a Charlemagne Vs Magnus comic would go over.

We live in a weird time for sure.

Yes, Batman vs Darth Vader was Bat in The Sun. They also did Ninjak vs The VALIANT Universe but that was a legit production.

If no-one actually owns the rights to the IP, does thatr make it public domain? And if it's public domain, then basically anyone can use the IP for any project they want and not have to pay the original owners/artists etc?

The IP would need to be abandoned, or the copyright not renewed, or a certain amount of time must have passed after its original registration for it to become part of the public domain I think.

The time requirements are different in different countries. I remember reading a few years ago there was an interesting case where Popeye was going to fall into the public domain in the United Kingdom but not in the United States.

There is something about 75 years after the death of the original creator.

[ManofTheAtom]

I’m unfamiliar about the monetization practices of Bat in the Sun or Death Battle. Death Battle did a live action Winter Soldier vs. Red Hood and I’m completely unsure of how they do something like that and be able to make money from it. I’m sure, at any time, Marvel and DC could copyright strike it.

Bat in the Sun has done their Super Power Beatup series (was Batman vs Darth Vader theirs???) and I’m not sure how they. Pull monetize that. It’s a slippery slope as you put all that money into it and then it could be taken down immediately if someone sees it.

So yeah - a Charlemagne vs Magnus video could happen. But I’m not sure drawing a Charlemagne Vs Magnus comic would go over.

We live in a weird time for sure.

Yes, Batman vs Darth Vader was Bat in The Sun. They also did Ninjak vs The VALIANT Universe but that was a legit production.

If no-one actually owns the rights to the IP, does thatr make it public domain? And if it's public domain, then basically anyone can use the IP for any project they want and not have to pay the original owners/artists etc?

The IP would need to be abandoned, or the copyright not renewed, or a certain amount of time must have passed after its original registration for it to become part of the public domain I think.

The time requirements are different in different countries. I remember reading a few years ago there was an interesting case where Popeye was going to fall into the public domain in the United Kingdom but not in the United States.

There is something about 75 years after the death of the original creator.

Correct.

Defiant is a long way from falling into the public domain.

Surely the license cannot be that expensive.

[RyanMcLelland]

I’m unfamiliar about the monetization practices of Bat in the Sun or Death Battle. Death Battle did a live action Winter Soldier vs. Red Hood and I’m completely unsure of how they do something like that and be able to make money from it. I’m sure, at any time, Marvel and DC could copyright strike it.

Bat in the Sun has done their Super Power Beatup series (was Batman vs Darth Vader theirs???) and I’m not sure how they. Pull monetize that. It’s a slippery slope as you put all that money into it and then it could be taken down immediately if someone sees it.

So yeah - a Charlemagne vs Magnus video could happen. But I’m not sure drawing a Charlemagne Vs Magnus comic would go over.

We live in a weird time for sure.

Yes, Batman vs Darth Vader was Bat in The Sun. They also did Ninjak vs The VALIANT Universe but that was a legit production.

If no-one actually owns the rights to the IP, does thatr make it public domain? And if it's public domain, then basically anyone can use the IP for any project they want and not have to pay the original owners/artists etc?

The IP would need to be abandoned, or the copyright not renewed, or a certain amount of time must have passed after its original registration for it to become part of the public domain I think.

The time requirements are different in different countries. I remember reading a few years ago there was an interesting case where Popeye was going to fall into the public domain in the United Kingdom but not in the United States.

There is something about 75 years after the death of the original creator.

Correct.

Defiant is a long way from falling into the public domain.

Surely the license cannot be that expensive.

Yeah Defiant had many, many, MANY years to go before they fall in the public domain.

I guess we’ll see about the licensing.

[RyanMcLelland]

I’m unfamiliar about the monetization practices of Bat in the Sun or Death Battle. Death Battle did a live action Winter Soldier vs. Red Hood and I’m completely unsure of how they do something like that and be able to make money from it. I’m sure, at any time, Marvel and DC could copyright strike it.

Bat in the Sun has done their Super Power Beatup series (was Batman vs Darth Vader theirs???) and I’m not sure how they. Pull monetize that. It’s a slippery slope as you put all that money into it and then it could be taken down immediately if someone sees it.

So yeah - a Charlemagne vs Magnus video could happen. But I’m not sure drawing a Charlemagne Vs Magnus comic would go over.

We live in a weird time for sure.

Yes, Batman vs Darth Vader was Bat in The Sun. They also did Ninjak vs The VALIANT Universe but that was a legit production.

If no-one actually owns the rights to the IP, does thatr make it public domain? And if it's public domain, then basically anyone can use the IP for any project they want and not have to pay the original owners/artists etc?

The rights have been purchased over and over as part of different companies. So it’s not yet public domain.

[buff-beardo]

I backed this in hopes of reading it and having some unexpected closure to Defiant. $60k is a high goal for a Defiant comic.

[nycjadie]

Even if the owners wanted to put the Defiant rights in the public domain, they can’t. The rights will not be in the public domain in our lifetimes.

The rights could be licensed, either directly or through something like the Creative Commons, or they can be used without permission (which may or may not be infringing).

[midnightonearth]

Hello,

One last reply on this.
This is why we were honest about all of our costs upfront, and always planned for the Schism books to be printed in the USA.

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/tariffs ... guarantee/

All of us working on the project have been totally transparent about costs and everything.

This is not a good look for this company to raise this money, and still claim a 200k loss, even if the books are printed.

This book and company was not honest about the price. We have been the entire time.

Thank you!
Please help spread the word.

Jake

[reddog]

hahahahaha....this clinches it.....scam!.....how can you point to another companies misfortune and accuse them of something as proof that you are the holy ghost? .....hahahahaha scam....and no, i'm not anything you might claim i am...and by the way, the sudden 10k kickstarter jump on is just more proof ....hahahahaj...scam

[valiantdude]

dude.. you are the worlds biggest troll *SQUEE* you.. reddog is *SQUEE*.. the people are supporting the project.. he was saying he was honest since day *SQUEE* one.. youre literal *SQUEE* get off these boards.. you loterally know nothing.. birthday cake boy LIED on his kickstarter... 10k is not the *SQUEE* goal.. total lie... then 110k isnt even enough so he gets to keep all the money, and you *SQUEE* hope he takes the supposed 200k loss to get the books out.. *SQUEE* that.. that is a *SQUEE* real scam.. the schism project was honest.. thats how much it *SQUEE* costs.. birthdaycake boy cant even ship a black and white book to 500 people for 310k.. *SQUEE* him, and *SQUEE* that REAL scam.. THEY STILL HAVENT EVEN SHIPPED A MATT KINDT KICKSTARTER FROM 2023.. WTF!!!!

Bad idea is a *SQUEE* scam.. and people *SQUEE* on the schism project.. 100% honest and authentic.. probably the greatest comic recovery story of all time can eat *SQUEE*..

[Chiclo]

Now that is a red alert.

[reddog]

dude.. you are the worlds biggest troll *SQUEE* you.. reddog is *SQUEE*.. the people are supporting the project.. he was saying he was honest since day *SQUEE* one.. youre literal *SQUEE* get off these boards.. you loterally know nothing.. birthday cake boy LIED on his kickstarter... 10k is not the *SQUEE* goal.. total lie... then 110k isnt even enough so he gets to keep all the money, and you *SQUEE* hope he takes the supposed 200k loss to get the books out.. *SQUEE* that.. that is a *SQUEE* real scam.. the schism project was honest.. thats how much it *SQUEE* costs.. birthdaycake boy cant even ship a black and white book to 500 people for 310k.. *SQUEE* him, and *SQUEE* that REAL scam.. THEY STILL HAVENT EVEN SHIPPED A MATT KINDT KICKSTARTER FROM 2023.. WTF!!!!

Bad idea is a *SQUEE* scam.. and people *SQUEE* on the schism project.. 100% honest and authentic.. probably the greatest comic recovery story of all time can eat *SQUEE*..

who's birthday boy and what does squee mean to you?

[RyanMcLelland]

hahahahaha....this clinches it.....scam!.....how can you point to another companies misfortune and accuse them of something as proof that you are the holy ghost? .....hahahahaha scam....and no, i'm not anything you might claim i am...and by the way, the sudden 10k kickstarter jump on is just more proof ....hahahahaj...scam

I think Jake was just trying to say he’s not going to encounter problems with the comics because they are printing in the USA. I’m sure he had no idea tariffs were coming, but it’s one less thing the Kickstarter has to worry about.

I’m not sure how that clinches the Kickstarter being a scam but everyone is entitled to their opinion. I’m just hoping the Kickstarter makes its goal and is able to successfully get these books in the hands of people who want them.

[reddog]

I’m just hoping the Kickstarter makes its goal and is able to successfully get these books in the hands of people who want them.

me too

[valiantdude]

reddog is a bot... and very low iq for a bot..
what makes this a scam???
dinesh aka BCBoy is scamming people clearly... has NOT sent out the kindt kickstarter from 2023??? would you say that is a scam??? im sure the schism crew would be getting crucified if they did that.. but because its bad idea theyre allowed to steal.from people??? THEN they LIE AGAIN AND STEAL PEOPLES MONEY AGAIN ON THIS AWFUL PIZZA DETECTIVE BOOK!! WTF?!
THEY ARE LYING AND STEALING... PERIOD.. AND YOU TRY TO TEAR DOWN THE SCHISM BOOKS??
*SQUEE* you
Dinesh has always been a sniveling turd.. always..
reddog people are reading your stupid BS...
you are personally hurting jim shooter, jj, and others..
literally

[syzhang28]

How did we even get onto Dinesh and Bad Idea? lol. What's the connection? Sounds like midnightonearth is just trying to traffic off the press of a bigger more successful company. Also didn't midnightonearth say he wasn't going to post anymore? Agree with reddog, everything midnightonearth says makes this seem more and more like a scam.

I'm convinced the rights holders have no idea this is happening. If I cared more, I'd try and get in touch so they can shut this scam down but its probably not going to fund so who cares.

As for personally hurting jim shooter and jj. I think Shooter will still be able to sign his autographs at cons next to soup nazi and guy who played flash gordon once in the 80s. And jj needs to either do something in comics that is meaningful or come to terms with being past it.

[valiantdude]

um... i think the point that was being made was.. there are actual scams on kickstarter.. everyone doubted the schism crew but isnt questioning that one, which is 100% a scam, they are saying its a scam..
a real kickstarter is what the schism kickstarter is.. thats the irony..