SCHISM from DEFIANT - Kickstarter ft. Jim Shooter, David Lapham

[Ryan]

I talked to Jake. He’s a great guy and his passion for the project really shows. It seems Schism is in the right hands.

As for the rights it seems that he’s playing coy for a reason. So for people like me who are interested in the legality of publishing this book, coy doesn’t exactly work. But the coyness is because of what comes next beyond Schism. And it seems that there is going to be “a next.” What that is, I have no clue.

But it’s good to hear that there is a revelation coming that will make sense for Defiant fans.

That's awesome, its understandable. I was just frustrated that this thread was getting so negative when to me this is the most exciting thing that's happened in the '90s Valiant fan world' in over a decade.

I remember you being a thoughtful poster back in the day, I hope you keep posting more here.

Thanks for the kind words. I’m excited for it too - I didn’t want to come off as I’m not excited for it. The old reporter in me just kicked in. But having a “new” Defiant book thirty years later is absolutely exciting.

I’ll be posting more. I was locked out and couldn’t get a password reset, but now that I’m squared away I can come back and chat. Thanks Ry.

That's great, I look forward to more of your posting

[Ryan]

Since the same company owns Defiant, Broadway, and the Gold Key characters I've often wondered what a shared universe with all those characters would look like.

Weird.

The old publishing companies get absorbed by bigger and bigger conglomerates until they eventually end up in one of the big corporate libraries. How many properties does Disney/ABC own now? We'll be down to the 4 or 5 major corporations owning everything. Or maybe we already are.

[ManofTheAtom]

Since the same company owns Defiant, Broadway, and the Gold Key characters I've often wondered what a shared universe with all those characters would look like.

Weird.

But nonetheless interesting.

"Doctor Solar meets Plasm"...

Doctor Solar: Man of the Atom meets The Good Guys meets Star Seed would be a lot more fun.

Why Good Guys?

[Chiclo]

I don’t doubt the intention or enthusiasm of the creators(? archivists?) involved. I believe they have the art and scripts they claim.

I share McLelland’s questions about what permissions they have and if they have permissions from all the right sources.

$80 for 4 comics seems mighty steep to me.

[Ryan]

I don’t doubt the intention or enthusiasm of the creators(? archivists?) involved. I believe they have the art and scripts they claim.

I share McLelland’s questions about what permissions they have and if they have permissions from all the right sources.

$80 for 4 comics seems mighty steep to me.

The scripts are being newly written by Janet Jackson, the originally scheduled writer for the series. Shooter is the Editorial Consultant, Pauline Weiss is the script consultant. Do you think they would be involved with a dubious rights situation?

$80 for 4 issues is steep, but it's not out of line with similar projects. That's $20 for each issue of 40 pgs plus bonus material. A lot of kickstarter and indiegogo comics charge $25 or more for a 48 page 'graphic novel'. Have you ever looked at the prices on a Bad Idea kickstarter?

There's usually a premium price for these kind of projects. If it makes it possible so that we can read the entire 160 pg lost crossover with the involvement of the original creators, that's worth it to me. To each their own though.

[syzhang28]

Hello!

I was asked to come back and check on this thread, and boy I'm glad I did.

I don't do internet forums, but I know they can be rough.

First, no this isn't a scam. How could that be possible when all of the people working on the new material are alive, and would let you know if it was a scam. It wouldn't be on Kickstarter. That should be an easy one to figure out.
It does hurt a bit knowing the years of work we put into find into finding these pages, including people like Jim Hollister curator of the DEFIANT Comics museum, Janet Jackson, and Pauline Weiss, but okay.
It's a strange thought, but again it's the internet.

As far as David Lapham, first thing you have to remember is that all of the work was created in the 1990's and the work was fully paid for then, as both Jim Shooter attested to on my show, and David Lapham has talked about in the past. That's what made this Kickstarter possible, it would be a lot more expensive with just a plot. Especially with the legends that worked on the books.
We have had a hard time getting a hold of him specifically. Zack Lynch, former DEFIANT intern, and EIC of Blue Shack Comics has worked with David directly on his books. We've been emailing him, calling him on all the numbers we have, and sending him social messages, with no response so far.
If you have a way to contact him please give him my email - contact@midnightonearth.com. All of his social posts are years old. I'm not sure how you found him, but please connect us if you can.
He will be getting compensated, we just have to find him. And, remember it was work for hire back then that he was paid for fully. We have been actively trying to connect with him since at least early 2024. None of us can get a hold of him.

And lastly the rights, yes we have the okay. If it doesn't make sense the way you might be thinking about it, based on the information you have, perhaps it is because it isn't what people think it is.
And even more so, maybe we are being vague because there is something far, far, bigger coming and we don't want to spoil the surprise.
Have patience, it will be worth the wait.

Trust us - Janet, Pauline, Jim Shooter, myself, Jim Hollister, Zack Lynch, and all of the people helping this happen would not scam you.

This is an absolute incredible piece of comic book history and deserves to be treated with the reverence it deserves. Please help us get the word out, so we can get these books in people's hands, and move on to the next thing. Whatever that might be!

Hope this answers some questions.

Thank you,
Jake

This makes me more worried not less. Lets review

- You said all the creators have given permission and are being compensated
- I reached out to one. Just ONE. And found that you had not got permission and had not figured out a compensation.
- You then changed your story to say you had not got permission or reached a compensation agreement with everyone but its just the one person I caught you on. I'm tempted to reach out to more.
- And you're saying 'trust me' on permission from the rights holder. It sounds like you've confused creator with owner. Jim Shooter and the artists does not own this story and you have a moral obligation to get permission and compensate the actual owner.

[Ryan]

- You then changed your story to say you had not got permission or reached a compensation agreement with everyone but its just the one person I caught you on.

Why would they need permission from artists who were already paid for their work-for-hire? The artists don't own any of the rights.

I'm tempted to reach out to more.

You totally should. Start with Jim Shooter, Janet Jackson, and Pauline Weiss. Three of the main architects of Defiant Comics.

[syzhang28]

- You then changed your story to say you had not got permission or reached a compensation agreement with everyone but its just the one person I caught you on.

Why would they need permission from artists who were already paid for their work-for-hire? The artists don't own any of the rights.

I'm tempted to reach out to more.

You totally should. Start with Jim Shooter, Janet Jackson, and Pauline Weiss. Three of the main architects of Defiant Comics.

1. because thats how professionals behave. Marvel famously doesn't reprint old Jim Lee promotional posters as covers because Jim Lee doesn't want it to happen and they respect that. Even though he is at a rival company. Universal Studios famously doesn't make more or reboot Back to the Future because the director doesn't want it. Neither own the rights.

2. If I start with it would be with the ones that have actual current careers and not those desperate for a buck and with a history of lying thank you very much.

[reddog]

wow....for sure a scam...."incredible piece of comic book history and deserves to be treated with the reverence it deserves"....that's the biggest scam of all

Sounds like a personal issue reddog. Take your axe to grind against Defiant or Shooter somewhere else.

you got me wrong but i'm not offended

[Ryan]

1. because thats how professionals behave. Marvel famously doesn't reprint old Jim Lee promotional posters as covers because Jim Lee doesn't want it to happen and they respect that. Even though he is at a rival company. Universal Studios famously doesn't make more or reboot Back to the Future because the director doesn't want it. Neither own the rights.

Which is why it sounds like they did try to reach out to all of the artists. If you don't believe them, that's your choice. But how about some proof before throwing allegations? All the people involved with this project are using their real names and are accessible. You're hiding behind anonymity throwing out baseless allegations.

2. If I start with it would be with the ones that have actual current careers and not those desperate for a buck and with a history of lying thank you very much.

Yeah its clear you're not nursing a grudge against anyone involved with this project.[Sarcasm font]

[Ryan]

wow....for sure a scam...."incredible piece of comic book history and deserves to be treated with the reverence it deserves"....that's the biggest scam of all

Sounds like a personal issue reddog. Take your axe to grind against Defiant or Shooter somewhere else.

you got me wrong but i'm not offended

If you don't even like the comics involved, then why come on here and sling mud anonymously?

[The Chosen 1]

1. because thats how professionals behave. Marvel famously doesn't reprint old Jim Lee promotional posters as covers because Jim Lee doesn't want it to happen and they respect that. Even though he is at a rival company. Universal Studios famously doesn't make more or reboot Back to the Future because the director doesn't want it. Neither own the rights.

Which is why it sounds like they did try to reach out to all of the artists. If you don't believe them, that's your choice. But how about some proof before throwing allegations? All the people involved with this project are using their real names and are accessible. You're hiding behind anonymity throwing out baseless allegations.

2. If I start with it would be with the ones that have actual current careers and not those desperate for a buck and with a history of lying thank you very much.

Yeah its clear you're not nursing a grudge against anyone involved with this project.[Sarcasm font]

I'm suprised you're eventaking the time to respond to this troll. I don't even take notice of his comments anymore, they're just angry rants.
I excited about this project and look forward to the final product.

[syzhang28]

1. because thats how professionals behave. Marvel famously doesn't reprint old Jim Lee promotional posters as covers because Jim Lee doesn't want it to happen and they respect that. Even though he is at a rival company. Universal Studios famously doesn't make more or reboot Back to the Future because the director doesn't want it. Neither own the rights.

Which is why it sounds like they did try to reach out to all of the artists. If you don't believe them, that's your choice. But how about some proof before throwing allegations? All the people involved with this project are using their real names and are accessible. You're hiding behind anonymity throwing out baseless allegations.

2. If I start with it would be with the ones that have actual current careers and not those desperate for a buck and with a history of lying thank you very much.

Yeah its clear you're not nursing a grudge against anyone involved with this project.[Sarcasm font]

I did prove it and got a confession about Lapham.

No grudge beyond I don't like see people stealing others work and trying to profit from it. OP is clearly trying to avoid answering why he feels he has permission. I'm sure Jim Shooter gave his blessing. He has a history of doing it with things he doesn't have authority over.

[Ryan]

I'm surprisedd you're eventaking the time to respond to this troll. I don't even take notice of his comments anymore, they're just angry rants.
I excited about this project and look forward to the final product.

You're right, it's best to ignore trolls. I was just hoping this thread wouldn't devolve into total trolling and anonymous mud-slinging.

[Chiclo]

Hello everyone!

….

Jake
Host of the Midnight, On Earth Podcast

I have quoted because I want to ask you directly a question.

Who owns the rights to Defiant?

[Ryan]

I did prove it and got a confession about Lapham.

Your proof is that they said they don't have his contact info and asked if you could share it with them? That's your proof that this whole project is an elaborate scam

No grudge beyond I don't like see people stealing others work and trying to profit from it. OP is clearly trying to avoid answering why he feels he has permission. I'm sure Jim Shooter gave his blessing. He has a history of doing it with things he doesn't have authority over.

Why don't you enlighten us on all your secret knowledge Shooter's scamming history? He has a long, public history of working on nearly every big character in comics some of the biggest licensed characters of all time.

You're saying they don't know how to get permission to publish this book. Why should we trust your word over the OP and the Defiant founders who are putting their real names behind this project?

[Ryan]

I have quoted because I want to ask you directly a question.

Who owns the rights to Defiant?

His email is in the post dude, why don't you just contact him?

[syzhang28]

I did prove it and got a confession about Lapham.

Your proof is that they said they don't have his contact info and asked if you could share it with them? That's your proof that this whole project is an elaborate scam

No grudge beyond I don't like see people stealing others work and trying to profit from it. OP is clearly trying to avoid answering why he feels he has permission. I'm sure Jim Shooter gave his blessing. He has a history of doing it with things he doesn't have authority over.

Why don't you enlighten us on all your secret knowledge Shooter's scamming history? He has a long, public history of working on nearly every big character in comics some of the biggest licensed characters of all time.

You're saying they don't know how to get permission to publish this book. Why should we trust your word over the OP and the Defiant founders who are putting their real names behind this project?

The proof is that David Lapham himself said he'd never heard of this or been contacted and by the way his email is super easy to find. The nonsense about trying to get in touch and failing stretches credulity.

To your other point, nah. You're not having a good faith argument. You've got a bone to pick with me or you're a shill for the project. Either way, don't want to waste time arguing with someone who is closed minded. thanks anyway.

[ManofTheAtom]

I'm a shill for VALIANT.

Ryan is a shill for this project.

"You're a shill! He's a shill! They're all shills!"

[The Chosen 1]

I'm a shill for VALIANT.

Ryan is a shill for this project.

"You're a shill! He's a shill! They're all shills!"

You're such a shill!

You either hate Valiant, Defiant, Broadway, Jim Shooter, this kickstarter project or you're a Shill !!!

You can't have it any other way. (please, please note the sarcasm )

[Ryan]

The proof is that David Lapham himself said he'd never heard of this or been contacted and by the way his email is super easy to find. The nonsense about trying to get in touch and failing stretches credulity.

To your other point, nah. You're not having a good faith argument. You've got a bone to pick with me or you're a shill for the project. Either way, don't want to waste time arguing with someone who is closed minded. thanks anyway.

Well he's asking you for DL's email, why not give them a chance to see what they'll do? But you won't because you already made up your mind to go against this project from day 1 and nothing will change your mind.

I have no bone to pick, and nothing against you. I've usually enjoyed interacting with you.

I'm not involved at all with this project, and don't know any of them personally. I'm just a fan who wants to see this project succeed because I want to read it. If that makes me I'm shill, then that's fine. I'd be happy to promote this project from what I've seen.

It's more than Valiant has ever done for the old school fans that are the ones that kept the brand alive for all these years.

[Ryan]

I'm a shill for VALIANT.

Ryan is a shill for this project.

"You're a shill! He's a shill! They're all shills!"

Guilty as charged. From what I've seen, I'd be happy to promote this project. It looks its being run by people who are truly passionate about the characters and are doing the right things by involving (and paying) the architects of the universe.

[ManofTheAtom]

I'm a shill for VALIANT.

Ryan is a shill for this project.

"You're a shill! He's a shill! They're all shills!"

You're such a shill!

You either hate Valiant, Defiant, Broadway, Jim Shooter, this kickstarter project or you're a Shill !!!

You can't have it any other way. (please, please note the sarcasm )

[Ryan]

Did a little digging, and found this, who is the CEO of Dreamworks Classics?

Screenshot 2025-01-17 205935.png

Now, who is Eric Ellenbogen? I don't think he's actually the current head of DW Classics, just the co-founder and former co-head for years. He was also CEO of Marvel in 1998 and 99.

Oh and he was also the President of BVE (Broadway Video Entertainment) when they hired Jim Shooter to start something called Broadway Comics. From Shooter's blog:

Back in late 1994, I needed a gig. Eric Ellenbogen, President of Broadway Video Entertainment offered me one—partnering with BVE to start a comic book company, Broadway Comics.

I never signed a contract with BVE. A handshake with Eric Ellenbogen, then BVE boss, is better than a contract, anyway.
We actually negotiated the deal, had a meeting with our lawyers present….

That was funny. Eric and I explained our mutual understanding to the lawyers. BVE’s lawyers immediately started trying to add in terms favorable to BVE. My lawyers immediately started trying to wangle advantages for me. Both Eric and I reigned in our respective lawyers and insisted that they stick to what we had agreed upon—which we both remembered exactly the same way.

It was weird, Eric fighting with his lawyers to preserve what he’d offered me, me fighting with my lawyers to honor my obligations to Eric and BVE. That’s how it ought to be.

Anyway, we never got around to finishing and signing the contract. It didn’t really matter.

The naysayers on here will say, "Oh Shooter's always full of crap blah blah" but Broadway Comics is a real thing that really happened, we have proof.

So does anyone really think that Shooter and his closest associates would be involved in a project that is circumventing the rights of these characters, when he's had a close relationship with the guy who founded and was the head of the company that owns them (DW Classics)? C'mon Man

[Chiclo]

Is DW Classics the current owner of Defiant? Has DW Classics approved this Kickstarter?

I want to believe, guys.