VH 1: The End

[Chiclo]

but it shouldn't be necessary to repeat the same thing multiple times (how many times has the same thing been said by everyone here?).

I know, right.

[Ryan]

Well, for me the goal is to be provide closure to the VH-1 universe, not revive it.

Feedback is always welcomed, but it shouldn't be necessary to repeat the same thing multiple times (how many times has the same thing been said by everyone here?).

Anyone who still cares about Valiant should want it to be revived and as popular as it once was. If you think that can be achieved through the current Alien-DMG comics, then by all means get behind them and fully support them. Leave VH1 to the people who prefer that, it doesn't need your "closure".

[ManofTheAtom]

Well, for me the goal is to be provide closure to the VH-1 universe, not revive it.

Feedback is always welcomed, but it shouldn't be necessary to repeat the same thing multiple times (how many times has the same thing been said by everyone here?).

Anyone who still cares about Valiant should want it to be revived and as popular as it once was. If you think that can be achieved through the current Alien-DMG comics, then by all means get behind them and fully support them. Leave VH1 to the people who prefer that, it doesn't need your "closure".

Dinesh's VEI reboot captured all the essential elements from the VH1 original. He didn't really miss anythinng.

[ManofTheAtom]

Why don't you do your own VH-1 Revival thread?

[Ryan]

Well, for me the goal is to be provide closure to the VH-1 universe, not revive it.

Feedback is always welcomed, but it shouldn't be necessary to repeat the same thing multiple times (how many times has the same thing been said by everyone here?).

Anyone who still cares about Valiant should want it to be revived and as popular as it once was. If you think that can be achieved through the current Alien-DMG comics, then by all means get behind them and fully support them. Leave VH1 to the people who prefer that, it doesn't need your "closure".

Dinesh's VEI reboot captured all the essential elements from the VH1 original. He didn't really miss anything.

Cool, so that should be plenty of closure for you. You can stop making every post about VH1. Reading copies of VEI and DMG comics are very cheap and on digital, you should be able to easily catch up on everything you missed so you can become the VEI know-it-all expert, they don't seem to currently have one. And since you think VEI is the superior universe, it makes sense to make the switch.

[Ryan]

Why don't you do your own VH-1 Revival thread?

Because I don't use this message board to constantly pitch my ideas to Alien/DMG? If you want to know my thoughts about a VH1 revival, I've posted about it constantly for 6 years now and even illustrated fan fiction concepts, just search through my post history.

[ManofTheAtom]

Well, for me the goal is to be provide closure to the VH-1 universe, not revive it.

Feedback is always welcomed, but it shouldn't be necessary to repeat the same thing multiple times (how many times has the same thing been said by everyone here?).

Anyone who still cares about Valiant should want it to be revived and as popular as it once was. If you think that can be achieved through the current Alien-DMG comics, then by all means get behind them and fully support them. Leave VH1 to the people who prefer that, it doesn't need your "closure".

Dinesh's VEI reboot captured all the essential elements from the VH1 original. He didn't really miss anything.

Cool, so that should be plenty of closure for you. You can stop making every post about VH1. Reading copies of VEI and DMG comics are very cheap and on digital, you should be able to easily catch up on everything you missed so you can become the VEI know-it-all expert, they don't seem to currently have one. And since you think VEI is the superior universe, it makes sense to make the switch.

It's not the same thing. The VH-1 stories remain incomplete. What happens in the VEI narrative has no bearing on them.

[Ryan]

It's not the same thing. The VH-1 stories remain incomplete. What happens in the VEI narrative has no bearing on them.

VH1 has been a dead universe for 28 years. I've never seen anyone say 'if only I knew how all the minor characters died, VH1 would be complete and I would have closure' until you started saying it.

If that's what works for you, then that's great, give yourself that closure however you want. But that doesn't mean that's what all (or any) of the other Vh1 fans want.

[ManofTheAtom]

It's not the same thing. The VH-1 stories remain incomplete. What happens in the VEI narrative has no bearing on them.

VH1 has been a dead universe for 28 years. I've never seen anyone say 'if only I knew how all the minor characters died, VH1 would be complete and I would have closure' until you started saying it.

If that's what works for you, then that's great, give yourself that closure however you want. But that doesn't mean that's what all (or any) of the other Vh1 fans want.

Comics that offer final closure on VH 1, and even VH 2 comics, are more likely to ever be published than a revival of either, though.

[Ryan]

It's not the same thing. The VH-1 stories remain incomplete. What happens in the VEI narrative has no bearing on them.

VH1 has been a dead universe for 28 years. I've never seen anyone say 'if only I knew how all the minor characters died, VH1 would be complete and I would have closure' until you started saying it.

If that's what works for you, then that's great, give yourself that closure however you want. But that doesn't mean that's what all (or any) of the other Vh1 fans want.

Comics that offer final closure on VH 1, and even VH 2 comics, are more likely to ever be published than a revival of either, though.

According to who? Why would someone invest 100s of thousands of dollars in producing comics that are a dead end just to satisfy one person's need for closure?

[ManofTheAtom]

It's not the same thing. The VH-1 stories remain incomplete. What happens in the VEI narrative has no bearing on them.

VH1 has been a dead universe for 28 years. I've never seen anyone say 'if only I knew how all the minor characters died, VH1 would be complete and I would have closure' until you started saying it.

If that's what works for you, then that's great, give yourself that closure however you want. But that doesn't mean that's what all (or any) of the other Vh1 fans want.

Comics that offer final closure on VH 1, and even VH 2 comics, are more likely to ever be published than a revival of either, though.

According to who? Why would someone invest 100s of thousands of dollars in producing comics that are a dead end just to satisfy one person's need for closure?

Firstly, who said it would be one person?

Secondly, I am not saying they'd make them for me. I am saying that in terms of likelihood such comics are far more likely to happen than any sort of revival of VH-1.

[Ryan]

It's not the same thing. The VH-1 stories remain incomplete. What happens in the VEI narrative has no bearing on them.

VH1 has been a dead universe for 28 years. I've never seen anyone say 'if only I knew how all the minor characters died, VH1 would be complete and I would have closure' until you started saying it.

If that's what works for you, then that's great, give yourself that closure however you want. But that doesn't mean that's what all (or any) of the other Vh1 fans want.

Comics that offer final closure on VH 1, and even VH 2 comics, are more likely to ever be published than a revival of either, though.

According to who? Why would someone invest 100s of thousands of dollars in producing comics that are a dead end just to satisfy one person's need for closure?

Firstly, who said it would be one person?

Secondly, I am not saying they'd make them for me. I am saying that in terms of likelihood such comics are far more likely to happen than any sort of revival of VH-1.

I've never seen anyone else in all my years here saying that all we need is 'closure' for VH1 by seeing how all the minor characters died, with no continuation.

That's your opinion, do you have any real life examples to back it up? I've already given GI Joe ARAH as an example of how an old continuity can be easily revived and successful alongside a separate, modern reboot continuity.

[ManofTheAtom]

It's not the same thing. The VH-1 stories remain incomplete. What happens in the VEI narrative has no bearing on them.

VH1 has been a dead universe for 28 years. I've never seen anyone say 'if only I knew how all the minor characters died, VH1 would be complete and I would have closure' until you started saying it.

If that's what works for you, then that's great, give yourself that closure however you want. But that doesn't mean that's what all (or any) of the other Vh1 fans want.

Comics that offer final closure on VH 1, and even VH 2 comics, are more likely to ever be published than a revival of either, though.

According to who? Why would someone invest 100s of thousands of dollars in producing comics that are a dead end just to satisfy one person's need for closure?

Firstly, who said it would be one person?

Secondly, I am not saying they'd make them for me. I am saying that in terms of likelihood such comics are far more likely to happen than any sort of revival of VH-1.

I've never seen anyone else in all my years here saying that all we need is 'closure' for VH1 by seeing how all the minor characters died, with no continuation.

That's your opinion, do you have any real life examples to back it up? I've already given GI Joe ARAH as an example of how an old continuity can be easily revived and successful alongside a separate, modern reboot continuity.

It's not comparable, though.

GI Joe, Transformers, TMNT, and others have the liberty to do 100 different canons if they so choose it. VALIANT is not in he position to splinter its fanbase anymore than it already has.

To succeed they need to bet on ONE horse and back it until it reaches the finish line, and that has to be VEI.

They can do ancillary projects set in different canons, like Q2, but not long term without hurting themselves.

If they offer people three different versions of the same character and only one succeeds, then they've wasted resources they likely don't have supporting two losers.

[Ryan]

It's not comparable, though.

GI Joe, Transformers, TMNT, and others have the liberty to do 100 different canons if they so choose it. VALIANT is not in he position to splinter its fanbase anymore than it already has.

To succeed they need to bet on ONE horse and back it until it reaches the finish line, and that has to be VEI.

They can do ancillary projects set in different canons, like Q2, but not long term without hurting themselves.

If they offer people three different versions of the same character and only one succeeds, then they've wasted resources they likely don't have supporting two losers.

Cool, so just your opinion. I respect your opinion, but I disagree (see above).

So you're picking the one horse (VEI) that you haven't any of the comics since 2017? That's 7 years of comics now. Odd, but again I respect your right to have your opinion.

Just respect the people who prefer the VH1 versions of the characters. No one is trying to sabotage VEI/Alien/DMG. And no one is asking for your closure. Just read the VEI comics and let VH1 go, we'll all be better for it.

[ManofTheAtom]

It's not comparable, though.

GI Joe, Transformers, TMNT, and others have the liberty to do 100 different canons if they so choose it. VALIANT is not in he position to splinter its fanbase anymore than it already has.

To succeed they need to bet on ONE horse and back it until it reaches the finish line, and that has to be VEI.

They can do ancillary projects set in different canons, like Q2, but not long term without hurting themselves.

If they offer people three different versions of the same character and only one succeeds, then they've wasted resources they likely don't have supporting two losers.

Cool, so just your opinion. I respect your opinion, but I disagree (see above).

So you're picking the one horse (VEI) that you haven't any of the comics since 2017? That's 7 years of comics now. Odd, but again I respect your right to have your opinion.

Just respect the people who prefer the VH1 versions of the characters. No one is trying to sabotage VEI/Alien/DMG. And no one is asking for your closure. Just read the VEI comics and let VH1 go, we'll all be better for it.

I'm having fun coming up with how VH-1 could end without negating anything, but instead addressing it as part of the narrative.

If VEI can do something like Stalinverse and then undo it, VH-1 can do the same with X-O Manowar #68...

[Ryan]

It's not comparable, though.

GI Joe, Transformers, TMNT, and others have the liberty to do 100 different canons if they so choose it. VALIANT is not in he position to splinter its fanbase anymore than it already has.

To succeed they need to bet on ONE horse and back it until it reaches the finish line, and that has to be VEI.

They can do ancillary projects set in different canons, like Q2, but not long term without hurting themselves.

If they offer people three different versions of the same character and only one succeeds, then they've wasted resources they likely don't have supporting two losers.

Cool, so just your opinion. I respect your opinion, but I disagree (see above).

So you're picking the one horse (VEI) that you haven't any of the comics since 2017? That's 7 years of comics now. Odd, but again I respect your right to have your opinion.

Just respect the people who prefer the VH1 versions of the characters. No one is trying to sabotage VEI/Alien/DMG. And no one is asking for your closure. Just read the VEI comics and let VH1 go, we'll all be better for it.

I'm having fun coming up with how VH-1 could end without negating anything, but instead addressing it as part of the narrative.

If VEI can do something like Stalinverse and then undo it, VH-1 can do the same with X-O Manowar #68...

Read VEI-DMG-Alien 2017-2024 before deciding what's better. Don't say things just because you think that's what someone wants you to say.

[ManofTheAtom]

It's not comparable, though.

GI Joe, Transformers, TMNT, and others have the liberty to do 100 different canons if they so choose it. VALIANT is not in he position to splinter its fanbase anymore than it already has.

To succeed they need to bet on ONE horse and back it until it reaches the finish line, and that has to be VEI.

They can do ancillary projects set in different canons, like Q2, but not long term without hurting themselves.

If they offer people three different versions of the same character and only one succeeds, then they've wasted resources they likely don't have supporting two losers.

Cool, so just your opinion. I respect your opinion, but I disagree (see above).

So you're picking the one horse (VEI) that you haven't any of the comics since 2017? That's 7 years of comics now. Odd, but again I respect your right to have your opinion.

Just respect the people who prefer the VH1 versions of the characters. No one is trying to sabotage VEI/Alien/DMG. And no one is asking for your closure. Just read the VEI comics and let VH1 go, we'll all be better for it.

I'm having fun coming up with how VH-1 could end without negating anything, but instead addressing it as part of the narrative.

If VEI can do something like Stalinverse and then undo it, VH-1 can do the same with X-O Manowar #68...

Read VEI-DMG-Alien 2017-2024 before deciding what's better. Don't say things just because you think that's what someone wants you to say.

It's not about quality, though, as much as it is that VEI is the new status quo.

The time to bring back VH-1 was before the VEI reboot. Now, it's too late.

[ManofTheAtom]

What killed VH-1 was when writers stopped writing within the rules of the VALIANT Universe and instead started writing using the rules of DC and Marvel.

Whether that was done during Birthquake or VH-2 or a potential revival that ignored the parts one didn't like (be it from Post Unity, from Birthquake, or from the final issues of each series), that's just doing the same bad thing differently; using rules from DC and Marvel to write VALIANT.

What made VALIANT different above all else was the commitment to Rai #0, which IS part of the fundamental rules of tight continuity (i.e. sneeze in one issue, tissue from another).

If a revival ignores it or any story from Post Unity then it's no longer VALIANT, it's VALIANT in Name Only, not in context or concept.

[Ryan]

The time to bring back VH-1 was before the VEI reboot. Now, it's too late.

I disagree.

Challenge: Stop posting about VH1 in every post. Read all of VEI/DMG/Alien. Post only about the story content of the VEI universe.

Should be easy since it's way too late for VH1 ever to come back.

[Ryan]

What killed VH-1 was when writers stopped writing within the rules of the VALIANT Universe and instead started writing using the rules of DC and Marvel.

Whether that was done during Birthquake or VH-2 or a potential revival that ignored the parts one didn't like (be it from Post Unity, from Birthquake, or from the final issues of each series), that's just doing the same bad thing differently; using rules from DC and Marvel to write VALIANT.

What made VALIANT different above all else was the commitment to Rai #0, which IS part of the fundamental rules of tight continuity (i.e. sneeze in one issue, tissue from another).

If a revival ignores it or any story from Post Unity then it's no longer VALIANT, it's VALIANT in Name Only, not in context or concept.

but it shouldn't be necessary to repeat the same thing multiple times (how many times has the same thing been said by everyone here?).

[ManofTheAtom]

The time to bring back VH-1 was before the VEI reboot. Now, it's too late.

I disagree.

Challenge: Stop posting about VH1 in every post. Read all of VEI/DMG/Alien. Post only about the story content of the VEI universe.

Should be easy since it's way too late for VH1 ever to come back.

I'll get to read them when I have the time and means to.

I will continue to post about VH 1 or 2 or VEI.

[Ryan]

What killed VH-1 was when writers stopped writing within the rules of the VALIANT Universe and instead started writing using the rules of DC and Marvel.

Whether that was done during Birthquake or VH-2 or a potential revival that ignored the parts one didn't like (be it from Post Unity, from Birthquake, or from the final issues of each series), that's just doing the same bad thing differently; using rules from DC and Marvel to write VALIANT.

What made VALIANT different above all else was the commitment to Rai #0, which IS part of the fundamental rules of tight continuity (i.e. sneeze in one issue, tissue from another).

If a revival ignores it or any story from Post Unity then it's no longer VALIANT, it's VALIANT in Name Only, not in context or concept.

I'm glad it circled back around to this. The whole point of me participating in this thread was to point out the double standard you employ with your super strict 'rules'.

For decades you've harshly critiqued anyone who has an idea of how Valiant comics could do new stories if it doesn't follow your strict interpretation of VH1, yet for your own stories you're allowed to alter one of the few definitive facts of Rai 0.

Anyway as long as the story is good, I don't have a problem with retcons. Just wanted to point out the double standard as a friend. Just like I expect my friends to point out if I'm not being fair in some way.

that's just doing the same bad thing differently; using rules from DC and Marvel to write VALIANT.

Have you read any VEI/DMG/Alien?

How the VEI universe is written is a lot closer to Marvel/DC (and MCU) than it is to VH1 and very far from the hard sci-fi of pre-Unity and the New Universe.

I do agree with you that Valiant should be different. Without that uniqueness there's no reason for it to exist.

[ManofTheAtom]

I'm glad it circled back around to this. The whole point of me participating in this thread was to point out the double standard you employ with your super strict 'rules'.

For decades you've harshly critiqued anyone who has an idea of how Valiant comics could do new stories if it doesn't follow your strict interpretation of VH1, yet for your own stories you're allowed to alter one of the few definitive facts of Rai 0.

Anyway as long as the story is good, I don't have a problem with retcons. Just wanted to point out the double standard as a friend. Just like I expect my friends to point out if I'm not being fair in some way.

A retcon for who Ax killed is necessary for Bloodshot because the alternative is to pretend BS #51 didn't happen, which isn't really an option. Additionally, it resolves the plot hole of why his blood earned the moniker "Blood of Heroes" when no one else other than him used it.

In this instance, a retcon solves a problem, it doesn't create it.

Have you read any VEI/DMG/Alien?

How the VEI universe is written is a lot closer to Marvel/DC (and MCU) than it is to VH1 and very far from the hard sci-fi of pre-Unity and the New Universe.

I do agree with you that Valiant should be different. Without that uniqueness there's no reason for it to exist.

Up to Stalinverse, and I'd say that, more than not, Dinesh adhered fairly well to the overall intent and spirit of VALIANT/VH-1.

[Ryan]

A retcon for who Ax killed is necessary for Bloodshot because the alternative is to pretend BS #51 didn't happen, which isn't really an option. Additionally, it resolves the plot hole of why his blood earned the moniker "Blood of Heroes" when no one else other than him used it.

In this instance, a retcon solves a problem, it doesn't create it.

Whatever floats your boat. Same can be said for other retcons from other peoples' POV.

Up to Stalinverse, and I'd say that, more than not, Dinesh adhered fairly well to the overall intent and spirit of VALIANT/VH-1.

Up to Stalinverse, so 2012-2017, the first 5 years. There's been 7 years of comics since then that all 'count'. That's like only having read VH1 to mid-1992.

I agree that it felt like VH1 because they used a lot of the same plot lines. But how do you explain things like Deadside and magic in 'the world outside our window' Because they don't really try to. Much more like Marvel/DC than VH1.

[Chiclo]

Up to Stalinverse, and I'd say that, more than not, Dinesh adhered fairly well to the overall intent and spirit of VALIANT/VH-1.

Up to Stalinverse, so 2012-2017, the first 5 years. There's been 7 years of comics since then that all 'count'. That's like only having read VH1 to mid-1992.

I agree that it felt like VH1 because they used a lot of the same plot lines. But how do you explain things like Deadside and magic in 'the world outside our window' Because they don't really try to. Much more like Marvel/DC than VH1.

Oh, I know this one! Microcircuitry!