The "end" of Shadowman

[Heath]

So what happened to Jack?

He's still falling waiting on Bob to finish the story.

[Elveen]

So what happened to Jack?

He's still falling waiting on Bob to finish the story.

Now that would be sweet.

[magnusr]

So what happened to Jack?

He's still falling waiting on Bob to finish the story.

/Magnus

PS, "Falling still" reminds me of Kevin VanHook's quote from early Eternal Warrior issues.

PPS, I think Jack would die from a fall like that, but Bob Hall has said he would have survived.

[Elveen]

So what happened to Jack?

He's still falling waiting on Bob to finish the story.

/Magnus

PS, "Falling still" reminds me of Kevin VanHook's quote from early Eternal Warrior issues.

PPS, I think Jack would have died from the fall.

so do I.

But......

I think after Jack is "dead", using the Darqe Power, hw will come back from Deadside and burst out of his coffin and become an "avenging angel" type.

So, I think the fall kills him, but Jack lives.

[magnusr]

Found this:
http://www.boblayton.com/Archive/Novemb ... enov07.htm

(and adjusted my post above)

/Magnus

[Elveen]

Found this:
http://www.boblayton.com/Archive/Novemb ... enov07.htm

(and adjusted my post above)

/Magnus

And there you have it.

[myron]

Found this:
http://www.boblayton.com/Archive/Novemb ... enov07.htm

(and adjusted my post above)

/Magnus

And there you have it.

thanks to MOTA

[Elveen]

Found this:
http://www.boblayton.com/Archive/Novemb ... enov07.htm

(and adjusted my post above)

/Magnus

And there you have it.

thanks to MOTA

It all comes back to MOTA.

[Heath]

I hate to hedge, but I don't know for sure either. Like Bob, I would have, with a bit of a tear, killed Jack dead in '99 -- if I had had my way. But, I also tried to be cagey. The company was up for sale and we all knew that. I wasn't clear if the new owners would have let me kill Jack if the mid- 90s wave of popularity continued, so I brought Max into the twentieth century figuring that either I could kill him instead and say "They didn't mean Jack would die, they meant Shadowman." A bit weasely that, but it seemed better than not killing anyone. If I had stayed with it, and had my druthers though, Jack and Darque would have had a knock-down, drag-out and, at the point of death, the 'souls' of both (their bodies would have died for sure) would have been absorbed into a great pool of necromantic energy, dimensional gate, black hole, time arc . . . thingy. The absorption itself would have been what killed their corporeal selves. Maybe, they would have emerged years later with their energies combined into one hell of a zombie guy.


Had I gone back to the book before 1999, I would have had Jack's leap from the building screw him up for a while. No he wouldn't have died. He was right -- that couldn't happen until '99, but he would have broken every bone in his body. At night he would heal just enough to be Shadowman but in the day he would revert. He would have gotten a little better each day but in slow increments. In some ways he would have been for a while like Bob's Freemind -- an invalid with periods when he could be a hero.


As for the Garth Ennis version: that was all part of Bob Newhart's bad dream -- if you know what I mean.


Bob Hall
Shadowman Writer/Artist

GREAT answer from Bob. And I completely agree, and that is pretty much exactly how I see that things went down. The fall messed up Jack for a while, but he lived, unable to escape his 1999 death, sacrificing himself to rid the world of the Darque power.

For me, there is no Shadowman beyond Bob Hall's #43, so I also LOVE his last line there about the Garth Ennis version being part of Bob Newhart's bad dream!!

And we've got Bob Hall referencing Bob Newhart on Bob Layton's web site....

[slym2none]

Bob³ = awesome



-slym

[yardstick]

And here I was thinking that a portal to the lost land opened in mid-air below Jack, and he fell through it, back into the lost land... Where he meets Elya for the first time (well before she starts researching him in Unity)...


oh well...

[greg]

Enter at your own risk... and only if you think you're ready.
viewtopic.php?t=19499

[slym2none]

Enter at your own risk... and only if you think you're ready.
viewtopic.php?t=19499

Noice!



-slym

[Ryan]

If I am correct, Bob did have plans for what would happen next and had a plan for exactly how Jack would die to save the world from the Darque power - should he get the chance to tell those stories.

I really hope Dino gives him that chance! Even if it is outside of the new VALIANT continuity. I've been waiting a long time for Shadowman #44. Shadowman is the one title that I thought was better Post-Unity than Pre-Unity and that is all because of Bob Hall.

um... yes!

Reporting from the future... this did happen. According to Bob he was hired by VEI early on (probably around 2008-10?) to continue the story of Jack. He says he had a time arc save him which brought him to the present day... thus escaping his 1999 death. Then VEI decided to go the reboot direction and this story remains on a shelf somewhere. Bob goes into more depth in the interview I did with him.

[Ryan]

I hate to hedge, but I don't know for sure either. Like Bob, I would have, with a bit of a tear, killed Jack dead in '99 -- if I had had my way. But, I also tried to be cagey. The company was up for sale and we all knew that. I wasn't clear if the new owners would have let me kill Jack if the mid- 90s wave of popularity continued, so I brought Max into the twentieth century figuring that either I could kill him instead and say "They didn't mean Jack would die, they meant Shadowman." A bit weasely that, but it seemed better than not killing anyone. If I had stayed with it, and had my druthers though, Jack and Darque would have had a knock-down, drag-out and, at the point of death, the 'souls' of both (their bodies would have died for sure) would have been absorbed into a great pool of necromantic energy, dimensional gate, black hole, time arc . . . thingy. The absorption itself would have been what killed their corporeal selves. Maybe, they would have emerged years later with their energies combined into one hell of a zombie guy.


Had I gone back to the book before 1999, I would have had Jack's leap from the building screw him up for a while. No he wouldn't have died. He was right -- that couldn't happen until '99, but he would have broken every bone in his body. At night he would heal just enough to be Shadowman but in the day he would revert. He would have gotten a little better each day but in slow increments. In some ways he would have been for a while like Bob's Freemind -- an invalid with periods when he could be a hero.


As for the Garth Ennis version: that was all part of Bob Newhart's bad dream -- if you know what I mean.


Bob Hall
Shadowman Writer/Artist

GREAT answer from Bob. And I completely agree, and that is pretty much exactly how I see that things went down. The fall messed up Jack for a while, but he lived, unable to escape his 1999 death, sacrificing himself to rid the world of the Darque power.

For me, there is no Shadowman beyond Bob Hall's #43, so I also LOVE his last line there about the Garth Ennis version being part of Bob Newhart's bad dream!!

And we've got Bob Hall referencing Bob Newhart on Bob Layton's web site....

This is a nice in-depth answer from that time, haven't seen some of those details before.

[ManofTheAtom]

I hate to hedge, but I don't know for sure either. Like Bob, I would have, with a bit of a tear, killed Jack dead in '99 -- if I had had my way. But, I also tried to be cagey. The company was up for sale and we all knew that. I wasn't clear if the new owners would have let me kill Jack if the mid- 90s wave of popularity continued, so I brought Max into the twentieth century figuring that either I could kill him instead and say "They didn't mean Jack would die, they meant Shadowman." A bit weasely that, but it seemed better than not killing anyone. If I had stayed with it, and had my druthers though, Jack and Darque would have had a knock-down, drag-out and, at the point of death, the 'souls' of both (their bodies would have died for sure) would have been absorbed into a great pool of necromantic energy, dimensional gate, black hole, time arc . . . thingy. The absorption itself would have been what killed their corporeal selves. Maybe, they would have emerged years later with their energies combined into one hell of a zombie guy.


Had I gone back to the book before 1999, I would have had Jack's leap from the building screw him up for a while. No he wouldn't have died. He was right -- that couldn't happen until '99, but he would have broken every bone in his body. At night he would heal just enough to be Shadowman but in the day he would revert. He would have gotten a little better each day but in slow increments. In some ways he would have been for a while like Bob's Freemind -- an invalid with periods when he could be a hero.


As for the Garth Ennis version: that was all part of Bob Newhart's bad dream -- if you know what I mean.


Bob Hall
Shadowman Writer/Artist

GREAT answer from Bob. And I completely agree, and that is pretty much exactly how I see that things went down. The fall messed up Jack for a while, but he lived, unable to escape his 1999 death, sacrificing himself to rid the world of the Darque power.

For me, there is no Shadowman beyond Bob Hall's #43, so I also LOVE his last line there about the Garth Ennis version being part of Bob Newhart's bad dream!!

And we've got Bob Hall referencing Bob Newhart on Bob Layton's web site....

This is a nice in-depth answer from that time, haven't seen some of those details before.

I knew I had read that about Maxim somewhere. Not here, but somewhere.

I'm keener about the idea of Jack breaking every bone in his body when he hits the ground than on him and Darque merging and returning at a later day. I think the point of the 99 event was to put an end to necromantic energy and the like to explain why didn't exist in Magnus' 41st Century.

[ManofTheAtom]

Found this:
http://www.boblayton.com/Archive/Novemb ... enov07.htm

(and adjusted my post above)

/Magnus

And there you have it.

thanks to MOTA

It all comes back to MOTA.

HAH
HAH
HAH
HAH

YOU'RE WELCOME!

[Ryan]

I hate to hedge, but I don't know for sure either. Like Bob, I would have, with a bit of a tear, killed Jack dead in '99 -- if I had had my way. But, I also tried to be cagey. The company was up for sale and we all knew that. I wasn't clear if the new owners would have let me kill Jack if the mid- 90s wave of popularity continued, so I brought Max into the twentieth century figuring that either I could kill him instead and say "They didn't mean Jack would die, they meant Shadowman." A bit weasely that, but it seemed better than not killing anyone. If I had stayed with it, and had my druthers though, Jack and Darque would have had a knock-down, drag-out and, at the point of death, the 'souls' of both (their bodies would have died for sure) would have been absorbed into a great pool of necromantic energy, dimensional gate, black hole, time arc . . . thingy. The absorption itself would have been what killed their corporeal selves. Maybe, they would have emerged years later with their energies combined into one hell of a zombie guy.


Had I gone back to the book before 1999, I would have had Jack's leap from the building screw him up for a while. No he wouldn't have died. He was right -- that couldn't happen until '99, but he would have broken every bone in his body. At night he would heal just enough to be Shadowman but in the day he would revert. He would have gotten a little better each day but in slow increments. In some ways he would have been for a while like Bob's Freemind -- an invalid with periods when he could be a hero.


As for the Garth Ennis version: that was all part of Bob Newhart's bad dream -- if you know what I mean.


Bob Hall
Shadowman Writer/Artist

GREAT answer from Bob. And I completely agree, and that is pretty much exactly how I see that things went down. The fall messed up Jack for a while, but he lived, unable to escape his 1999 death, sacrificing himself to rid the world of the Darque power.

For me, there is no Shadowman beyond Bob Hall's #43, so I also LOVE his last line there about the Garth Ennis version being part of Bob Newhart's bad dream!!

And we've got Bob Hall referencing Bob Newhart on Bob Layton's web site....

This is a nice in-depth answer from that time, haven't seen some of those details before.

I knew I had read that about Maxim somewhere. Not here, but somewhere.

I'm keener about the idea of Jack breaking every bone in his body when he hits the ground than on him and Darque merging and returning at a later day. I think the point of the 99 event was to put an end to necromantic energy and the like to explain why didn't exist in Magnus' 41st Century.

Yeah I think you're right. I like the time travel loophole of letting Jack survive without contradicting Rai 0 by having a different 'dark clad hero Shadowman' die, which also explains why Elya (or the records) would've assumed it was Jack who died.

Because he had been 'outed' and was publicly known as Shadowman, so if a Shadowman died and Jack was also no longer around it would've been assumed by the media and historical records that it was Jack who had died as Shadowman.

[ManofTheAtom]

I hate to hedge, but I don't know for sure either. Like Bob, I would have, with a bit of a tear, killed Jack dead in '99 -- if I had had my way. But, I also tried to be cagey. The company was up for sale and we all knew that. I wasn't clear if the new owners would have let me kill Jack if the mid- 90s wave of popularity continued, so I brought Max into the twentieth century figuring that either I could kill him instead and say "They didn't mean Jack would die, they meant Shadowman." A bit weasely that, but it seemed better than not killing anyone. If I had stayed with it, and had my druthers though, Jack and Darque would have had a knock-down, drag-out and, at the point of death, the 'souls' of both (their bodies would have died for sure) would have been absorbed into a great pool of necromantic energy, dimensional gate, black hole, time arc . . . thingy. The absorption itself would have been what killed their corporeal selves. Maybe, they would have emerged years later with their energies combined into one hell of a zombie guy.


Had I gone back to the book before 1999, I would have had Jack's leap from the building screw him up for a while. No he wouldn't have died. He was right -- that couldn't happen until '99, but he would have broken every bone in his body. At night he would heal just enough to be Shadowman but in the day he would revert. He would have gotten a little better each day but in slow increments. In some ways he would have been for a while like Bob's Freemind -- an invalid with periods when he could be a hero.


As for the Garth Ennis version: that was all part of Bob Newhart's bad dream -- if you know what I mean.


Bob Hall
Shadowman Writer/Artist

GREAT answer from Bob. And I completely agree, and that is pretty much exactly how I see that things went down. The fall messed up Jack for a while, but he lived, unable to escape his 1999 death, sacrificing himself to rid the world of the Darque power.

For me, there is no Shadowman beyond Bob Hall's #43, so I also LOVE his last line there about the Garth Ennis version being part of Bob Newhart's bad dream!!

And we've got Bob Hall referencing Bob Newhart on Bob Layton's web site....

This is a nice in-depth answer from that time, haven't seen some of those details before.

I knew I had read that about Maxim somewhere. Not here, but somewhere.

I'm keener about the idea of Jack breaking every bone in his body when he hits the ground than on him and Darque merging and returning at a later day. I think the point of the 99 event was to put an end to necromantic energy and the like to explain why didn't exist in Magnus' 41st Century.

Yeah I think you're right. I like the time travel loophole of letting Jack survive without contradicting Rai 0 by having a different 'dark clad hero Shadowman' die, which also explains why Elya (or the records) would've assumed it was Jack who died.

Because he had been 'outed' and was publicly known as Shadowman, so if a Shadowman died and Jack was also no longer around it would've been assumed by the media and historical records that it was Jack who had died as Shadowman.

We saw that cop-out with Flash in the Arrowverse's version of Crisis and it sucked, though. All that built up for them to kill a different Barry Allen.

[Ryan]

I hate to hedge, but I don't know for sure either. Like Bob, I would have, with a bit of a tear, killed Jack dead in '99 -- if I had had my way. But, I also tried to be cagey. The company was up for sale and we all knew that. I wasn't clear if the new owners would have let me kill Jack if the mid- 90s wave of popularity continued, so I brought Max into the twentieth century figuring that either I could kill him instead and say "They didn't mean Jack would die, they meant Shadowman." A bit weasely that, but it seemed better than not killing anyone. If I had stayed with it, and had my druthers though, Jack and Darque would have had a knock-down, drag-out and, at the point of death, the 'souls' of both (their bodies would have died for sure) would have been absorbed into a great pool of necromantic energy, dimensional gate, black hole, time arc . . . thingy. The absorption itself would have been what killed their corporeal selves. Maybe, they would have emerged years later with their energies combined into one hell of a zombie guy.


Had I gone back to the book before 1999, I would have had Jack's leap from the building screw him up for a while. No he wouldn't have died. He was right -- that couldn't happen until '99, but he would have broken every bone in his body. At night he would heal just enough to be Shadowman but in the day he would revert. He would have gotten a little better each day but in slow increments. In some ways he would have been for a while like Bob's Freemind -- an invalid with periods when he could be a hero.


As for the Garth Ennis version: that was all part of Bob Newhart's bad dream -- if you know what I mean.


Bob Hall
Shadowman Writer/Artist

GREAT answer from Bob. And I completely agree, and that is pretty much exactly how I see that things went down. The fall messed up Jack for a while, but he lived, unable to escape his 1999 death, sacrificing himself to rid the world of the Darque power.

For me, there is no Shadowman beyond Bob Hall's #43, so I also LOVE his last line there about the Garth Ennis version being part of Bob Newhart's bad dream!!

And we've got Bob Hall referencing Bob Newhart on Bob Layton's web site....

This is a nice in-depth answer from that time, haven't seen some of those details before.

I knew I had read that about Maxim somewhere. Not here, but somewhere.

I'm keener about the idea of Jack breaking every bone in his body when he hits the ground than on him and Darque merging and returning at a later day. I think the point of the 99 event was to put an end to necromantic energy and the like to explain why didn't exist in Magnus' 41st Century.

Yeah I think you're right. I like the time travel loophole of letting Jack survive without contradicting Rai 0 by having a different 'dark clad hero Shadowman' die, which also explains why Elya (or the records) would've assumed it was Jack who died.

Because he had been 'outed' and was publicly known as Shadowman, so if a Shadowman died and Jack was also no longer around it would've been assumed by the media and historical records that it was Jack who had died as Shadowman.

We saw that cop-out with Flash in the Arrowverse's version of Crisis and it sucked, though. All that built up for them to kill a different Barry Allen.

Cool, you don't like it. I'm just saying it's a possibility that I personally like.

[ManofTheAtom]

GREAT answer from Bob. And I completely agree, and that is pretty much exactly how I see that things went down. The fall messed up Jack for a while, but he lived, unable to escape his 1999 death, sacrificing himself to rid the world of the Darque power.

For me, there is no Shadowman beyond Bob Hall's #43, so I also LOVE his last line there about the Garth Ennis version being part of Bob Newhart's bad dream!!

And we've got Bob Hall referencing Bob Newhart on Bob Layton's web site....

This is a nice in-depth answer from that time, haven't seen some of those details before.

I knew I had read that about Maxim somewhere. Not here, but somewhere.

I'm keener about the idea of Jack breaking every bone in his body when he hits the ground than on him and Darque merging and returning at a later day. I think the point of the 99 event was to put an end to necromantic energy and the like to explain why didn't exist in Magnus' 41st Century.

Yeah I think you're right. I like the time travel loophole of letting Jack survive without contradicting Rai 0 by having a different 'dark clad hero Shadowman' die, which also explains why Elya (or the records) would've assumed it was Jack who died.

Because he had been 'outed' and was publicly known as Shadowman, so if a Shadowman died and Jack was also no longer around it would've been assumed by the media and historical records that it was Jack who had died as Shadowman.

We saw that cop-out with Flash in the Arrowverse's version of Crisis and it sucked, though. All that built up for them to kill a different Barry Allen.

Cool, you don't like it. I'm just saying it's a possibility that I personally like.

Ok, but to what end, though? After either Maxim orJack died ridding the world of the Darque power there would be no more Shadowman, regardless of who survived.

It would be like destroying the Speed Force that makes it possible for Barry, Wally, and the others to run fast.

Without either of those forces, they all become normal human begins.

Better for Jack to die a hero saving the world that end up as a regular guy, no?

[Ryan]

Ok, but to what end, though? After either Maxim orJack died ridding the world of the Darque power there would be no more Shadowman, regardless of who survived.

It would be like destroying the Speed Force that makes it possible for Barry, Wally, and the others to run fast.

Without either of those forces, they all become normal human begins.

Better for Jack to die a hero saving the world that end up as a regular guy, no?

You'd have to ask Bob and Dino that one. I just like the character, and I'm not a Rai 0 absolutist, so it works for me. It's all just fan head canon at this point anyway. If it helps you could always just call it an alternate continuation of VH1, VH1a, not the true VH1 that follows your interpretation of Rai 0.