VH 0 Phil and VH 1 Aric

[Ryan]

Use Omar's mistake of showing U2K Phil holding Solar #1 from VALIANT instead of Doctor Solar from Gold Key to explain that they were indeed all fictional, heh.

Shooter did include the "real" Solar in the story, serving a sentence in purgatory where he is forced to rewatch the fusion meltdown for all eternity.

Interesting. I need to re-read U2K. It's just kind of a slog reading the full script with the blurry low-res pages.

I guess I don't like the part that the VH1 characters were erased at the end. So they basically brought Shooter in to kill his own universe? Maybe that's why the story isn't any good.

If magic ink and wish machines are the explanation, then any combination of characters can be kept.

[Ryan]

!00%!
Robocop too, Clash of the Titans

JJ Abrams Star Trek...
Remaking a classic by total reboot is hard to do. I'm sure there are examples that have worked, but I'm drawing a blank. I think it's even harder in comics, where the history and continuity is such a big deal.

[Chiclo]

!00%!
Robocop too, Clash of the Titans

JJ Abrams Star Trek...
Remaking a classic by total reboot is hard to do. I'm sure there are examples that have worked, but I'm drawing a blank. I think it's even harder in comics, where the history and continuity is such a big deal.

No. Nononononononono NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. That movie was not a real movie and cannot hurt me anymore.

[Ryan]

!00%!
Robocop too, Clash of the Titans

JJ Abrams Star Trek...
Remaking a classic by total reboot is hard to do. I'm sure there are examples that have worked, but I'm drawing a blank. I think it's even harder in comics, where the history and continuity is such a big deal.

No. Nononononononono NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. That movie was not a real movie and cannot hurt me anymore.

Struck a nerve there. I'll use this next time Kelvin timeline

[ManofTheAtom]

Use Omar's mistake of showing U2K Phil holding Solar #1 from VALIANT instead of Doctor Solar from Gold Key to explain that they were indeed all fictional, heh.

Shooter did include the "real" Solar in the story, serving a sentence in purgatory where he is forced to rewatch the fusion meltdown for all eternity.

Interesting. I need to re-read U2K. It's just kind of a slog reading the full script with the blurry low-res pages.

I guess I don't like the part that the VH1 characters were erased at the end. So they basically brought Shooter in to kill his own universe? Maybe that's why the story isn't any good.

If magic ink and wish machines are the explanation, then any combination of characters can be kept.

As I see it, Alien/DMG needs to stay committed to Dines's VEI reboot. NO MORE REBOOTS, no backtracking, etc.

That doesn't mean that an explanation of the relationship between the three universes shouldn't be published. I've laid out what my version would be, which I believe respects everything that came before.

[ManofTheAtom]

!00%!
Robocop too, Clash of the Titans

JJ Abrams Star Trek...
Remaking a classic by total reboot is hard to do. I'm sure there are examples that have worked, but I'm drawing a blank. I think it's even harder in comics, where the history and continuity is such a big deal.

No. Nononononononono NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. That movie was not a real movie and cannot hurt me anymore.

That was Star Trek for dummies. For really dumb dummies. Even The Stupids thought it was too stupid for them.

[ManofTheAtom]

VEI's reboot is to VH 1 what DC's Post Crisis was to the Silver Age.

To go back to VH 1 would make as much sense as it would to go back to the Silver Age, which is none.

What VEI lacks is merely a bridge between the three iterations of VALIANT the way DC had between the Golden, Silver, and Modern Ages.

[Ryan]

I don't see why they can't just co-exist, just like Marvel 2099, DC Elseworlds, etc. etc. The VEI continuity keeps continuing through the new comics, and the VH1 universe can be used in special projects with a distinction like Valiant Classic or something. No explanations needed.

[ManofTheAtom]

I don't see why they can't just co-exist, just like Marvel 2099, DC Elseworlds, etc. etc. The VEI continuity keeps continuing through the new comics, and the VH1 universe can be used in special projects with a distinction like Valiant Classic or something. No explanations needed.

It would be cutting off their nose to spite their face, though. Publishing one version of X-O Manowar for fans of the VH 1 version and another for fans of the VEI version. Publishing comics is not cheap.

Imagine if when VALIANT reimagined Doctor Solar fans of the Gold Key original had insisted that they also publish a separate series with the original version.

[Ryan]

I don't see why they can't just co-exist, just like Marvel 2099, DC Elseworlds, etc. etc. The VEI continuity keeps continuing through the new comics, and the VH1 universe can be used in special projects with a distinction like Valiant Classic or something. No explanations needed.

It would be cutting off their nose to spite their face, though. Publishing one version of X-O Manowar for fans of the VH 1 version and another for fans of the VEI version. Publishing comics is not cheap.

Imagine if when VALIANT reimagined Doctor Solar fans of the Gold Key original had insisted that they also publish a separate series with the original version.

Separate imprints with different continuities are common throughout comics and have been for a long time. I don't think it's comparable to Gold Key Solar.

In your version, if Vh1 is so irrelevant that it can't stand on its own, then there's no reason to incorporate them into VEI. May as well just continue with VEI and subtly make the characters more like Vh1 if that's what you want. No need to involve magic ink or wish machines.

[ManofTheAtom]

I don't see why they can't just co-exist, just like Marvel 2099, DC Elseworlds, etc. etc. The VEI continuity keeps continuing through the new comics, and the VH1 universe can be used in special projects with a distinction like Valiant Classic or something. No explanations needed.

It would be cutting off their nose to spite their face, though. Publishing one version of X-O Manowar for fans of the VH 1 version and another for fans of the VEI version. Publishing comics is not cheap.

Imagine if when VALIANT reimagined Doctor Solar fans of the Gold Key original had insisted that they also publish a separate series with the original version.

Separate imprints with different continuities are common throughout comics and have been for a long time. I don't think it's comparable to Gold Key Solar.

In your version, if Vh1 is so irrelevant that it can't stand on its own, then there's no reason to incorporate them into VEI. May as well just continue with VEI and subtly make the characters more like Vh1 if that's what you want. No need to involve magic ink or wish machines.

Well, as I see it, that connection can make that work. Such as, for instance, Archer retaking his journey to become a spiritual leader, something that hasn't been present since VH 2 took that away.

[ManofTheAtom]

Did you see much benefit to the Q2 mini series?

[Ryan]

Well, as I see it, that connection can make that work. Such as, for instance, Archer retaking his journey to become a spiritual leader, something that hasn't been present since VH 2 took that away.

I'm just speaking from a practicality standpoint. They're already doing stories with Archer as Faith's boyfriend. I just don't think the universes are compatible without a major, reality altering event and I don't think that's practical right now.

Did you see much benefit to the Q2 mini series?

Personally, no. But that's only because I'm not very interested in Q&W or VH2.

Now if it had been a mini-series of Bob Hall picking up where he left VH1 Jack or Shooter doing Harbinger in VH1 continuity I would have definitely loved that and seen a lot of benefit.

[ManofTheAtom]

Well, as I see it, that connection can make that work. Such as, for instance, Archer retaking his journey to become a spiritual leader, something that hasn't been present since VH 2 took that away.

I'm just speaking from a practicality standpoint. They're already doing stories with Archer as Faith's boyfriend. I just don't think the universes are compatible without a major, reality altering event and I don't think that's practical right now.

Did you see much benefit to the Q2 mini series?

Personally, no. But that's only because I'm not very interested in Q&W or VH2.

Now if it had been a mini-series of Bob Hall picking up where he left VH1 Jack or Shooter doing Harbinger in VH1 continuity I would have definitely loved that and seen a lot of benefit.

They can't co-exist, that's for sure.

Those types of stories would be great extras in the reprints.

[Ryan]

They can't co-exist, that's for sure.

Those types of stories would be great extras in the reprints.

8 or 10 pagers in the back of reprints just aren't enough, as we've seen. Q2 got 5 issues. The fact that it took place in VH2 instead of VEI had no harmful effects on the main VEI books.

All I'm saying is the same thing could be done with VH1, and it wouldn't affect the mainline VEI-continuity comics they're putting out. There doesn't need be a Crisis/Unity 2K for that to happen.

[Chiclo]

I don't see why they can't just co-exist, just like Marvel 2099, DC Elseworlds, etc. etc. The VEI continuity keeps continuing through the new comics, and the VH1 universe can be used in special projects with a distinction like Valiant Classic or something. No explanations needed.

It would be cutting off their nose to spite their face, though. Publishing one version of X-O Manowar for fans of the VH 1 version and another for fans of the VEI version. Publishing comics is not cheap.

Imagine if when VALIANT reimagined Doctor Solar fans of the Gold Key original had insisted that they also publish a separate series with the original version.

Yeah, VALIANT never would have printed an Original Solar comic.

[ManofTheAtom]

I don't see why they can't just co-exist, just like Marvel 2099, DC Elseworlds, etc. etc. The VEI continuity keeps continuing through the new comics, and the VH1 universe can be used in special projects with a distinction like Valiant Classic or something. No explanations needed.

It would be cutting off their nose to spite their face, though. Publishing one version of X-O Manowar for fans of the VH 1 version and another for fans of the VEI version. Publishing comics is not cheap.

Imagine if when VALIANT reimagined Doctor Solar fans of the Gold Key original had insisted that they also publish a separate series with the original version.

Yeah, VALIANT never would have printed an Original Solar comic.

Those were reprints. Of which only the Magnus, and, arguably, Turok ones can be considered canonical.

[ManofTheAtom]

They can't co-exist, that's for sure.

Those types of stories would be great extras in the reprints.

8 or 10 pagers in the back of reprints just aren't enough, as we've seen. Q2 got 5 issues. The fact that it took place in VH2 instead of VEI had no harmful effects on the main VEI books.

All I'm saying is the same thing could be done with VH1, and it wouldn't affect the mainline VEI-continuity comics they're putting out. There doesn't need be a Crisis/Unity 2K for that to happen.

It's not about the effect it would have on canon, but the effect it would have on the production expenses. I don't think it would be wise for Alien to spend time, money, and resources on publishing comics with two or three disparate versions of the same characters.

[Chiclo]

I don't see why they can't just co-exist, just like Marvel 2099, DC Elseworlds, etc. etc. The VEI continuity keeps continuing through the new comics, and the VH1 universe can be used in special projects with a distinction like Valiant Classic or something. No explanations needed.

It would be cutting off their nose to spite their face, though. Publishing one version of X-O Manowar for fans of the VH 1 version and another for fans of the VEI version. Publishing comics is not cheap.

Imagine if when VALIANT reimagined Doctor Solar fans of the Gold Key original had insisted that they also publish a separate series with the original version.

Yeah, VALIANT never would have printed an Original Solar comic.

Those were reprints. Of which only the Magnus, and, arguably, Turok ones can be considered canonical.

Yes. VALIANT published a parallel version of Solar, closer to the Gold Key than VALIANT version, at the same time.

[Ryan]

It's not about the effect it would have on canon, but the effect it would have on the production expenses. I don't think it would be wise for Alien to spend time, money, and resources on publishing comics with two or three disparate versions of the same characters.

Just a difference of opinion then. They're already publishing their VEI universe titles. You're suggesting a massive event that would change all the characters and their entire publishing plan. I'm saying it would be easier and more practical to publish a book like Q2 but with VH1 to test the waters and see if there's any interest in the old universe. But it's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Not that I wouldn't like a big event comic like Crisis, that could be cool.

[ManofTheAtom]

I don't see why they can't just co-exist, just like Marvel 2099, DC Elseworlds, etc. etc. The VEI continuity keeps continuing through the new comics, and the VH1 universe can be used in special projects with a distinction like Valiant Classic or something. No explanations needed.

It would be cutting off their nose to spite their face, though. Publishing one version of X-O Manowar for fans of the VH 1 version and another for fans of the VEI version. Publishing comics is not cheap.

Imagine if when VALIANT reimagined Doctor Solar fans of the Gold Key original had insisted that they also publish a separate series with the original version.

Yeah, VALIANT never would have printed an Original Solar comic.

Those were reprints. Of which only the Magnus, and, arguably, Turok ones can be considered canonical.

Yes. VALIANT published a parallel version of Solar, closer to the Gold Key than VALIANT version, at the same time.

It wasn't new material, it was a reprint. Alien does reprints of the old material all the time.

[ManofTheAtom]

It's not about the effect it would have on canon, but the effect it would have on the production expenses. I don't think it would be wise for Alien to spend time, money, and resources on publishing comics with two or three disparate versions of the same characters.

Just a difference of opinion then. They're already publishing their VEI universe titles. You're suggesting a massive event that would change all the characters and their entire publishing plan. I'm saying it would be easier and more practical to publish a book like Q2 but with VH1 to test the waters and see if there's any interest in the old universe. But it's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Not that I wouldn't like a big event comic like Crisis, that could be cool.

It need not be a big event, though. Just Tama, the current Geomancer, piercing the veil to see the truth about the nature of the universe.

[Ryan]

It's not about the effect it would have on canon, but the effect it would have on the production expenses. I don't think it would be wise for Alien to spend time, money, and resources on publishing comics with two or three disparate versions of the same characters.

Just a difference of opinion then. They're already publishing their VEI universe titles. You're suggesting a massive event that would change all the characters and their entire publishing plan. I'm saying it would be easier and more practical to publish a book like Q2 but with VH1 to test the waters and see if there's any interest in the old universe. But it's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Not that I wouldn't like a big event comic like Crisis, that could be cool.

It need not be a big event, though. Just Tama, the current Geomancer, piercing the veil to see the truth about the nature of the universe.

Cool, I'd like to see it.

[ManofTheAtom]

It's not about the effect it would have on canon, but the effect it would have on the production expenses. I don't think it would be wise for Alien to spend time, money, and resources on publishing comics with two or three disparate versions of the same characters.

Just a difference of opinion then. They're already publishing their VEI universe titles. You're suggesting a massive event that would change all the characters and their entire publishing plan. I'm saying it would be easier and more practical to publish a book like Q2 but with VH1 to test the waters and see if there's any interest in the old universe. But it's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Not that I wouldn't like a big event comic like Crisis, that could be cool.

It need not be a big event, though. Just Tama, the current Geomancer, piercing the veil to see the truth about the nature of the universe.

Cool, I'd like to see it.

Me too.