VALIANT And The World Outside Our Window

[ManofTheAtom]

If it was not otherwise stated to be a tessaract, it is presumptive to asume that a tessaract is the only explanation.

It could be a glome. It could be a doorway, a portal to elsewhere in this universe or to hyperspace. There could be some kind of space dilation, not that the satchel is bigger on the inside, but rather things are smaller in there or there is just more of in there than there should be. Or it could just be magic.

Do plattitudes mouthed by a crackpot in early VEI reflect physical laws and limitations in pre-Unity VH1?

Even if all magic is science, that is not definitive that the satchel holds a tessaract or any other higher-dimensional manifold accessible from and capable of storing three-dimensional items. Lots of other possibilities.

Yes, it could be any of those.

Finally.

Magic is just an advanced form of science, heh.

Technology/science is just magic that is thoroughly explained.

Seriously - electromagnetism and gravity are magic. No one really knows what they are.

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To primitive man, all those things are divine acts.

One way a guy explained Abrahamic religion to me once was that Abraham grabbed a rock, wondered where it came from, and concluded that a divine being put it there. Hence, Judaism.

It likely wasn't that simple, but it's also likely not that wrong.

[Chiclo]

If it was not otherwise stated to be a tessaract, it is presumptive to asume that a tessaract is the only explanation.

It could be a glome. It could be a doorway, a portal to elsewhere in this universe or to hyperspace. There could be some kind of space dilation, not that the satchel is bigger on the inside, but rather things are smaller in there or there is just more of in there than there should be. Or it could just be magic.

Do plattitudes mouthed by a crackpot in early VEI reflect physical laws and limitations in pre-Unity VH1?

Even if all magic is science, that is not definitive that the satchel holds a tessaract or any other higher-dimensional manifold accessible from and capable of storing three-dimensional items. Lots of other possibilities.

Yes, it could be any of those.

Finally.

Magic is just an advanced form of science, heh.

Technology/science is just magic that is thoroughly explained.

Seriously - electromagnetism and gravity are magic. No one really knows what they are.

Sent from my Pixel Fold using Tapatalk

To primitive man, all those things are divine acts.

One way a guy explained Abrahamic religion to me once was that Abraham grabbed a rock, wondered where it came from, and concluded that a divine being put it there. Hence, Judaism.

It likely wasn't that simple, but it's also likely not that wrong.

Abraham predated Judaism by about 1500 years. Abraham was the first Hebrew. Some may say he was the first Muslim, it all really depends on whether you focus on his faith or his obedience.

If you are going to reject theism based on science, at least do so embracing the science of archaeology, considering the cultural context of the ancient near east and compare (Name*)-ism to the myths of especially Ugarit. Secular archaeology would suggest that the Hebrew religion was not made out of whole cloth as you would suggest.

* - where Name is the tetragrammaton, יהוה

[ManofTheAtom]

Yes, it could be any of those.

Finally.

Magic is just an advanced form of science, heh.

Technology/science is just magic that is thoroughly explained.

Seriously - electromagnetism and gravity are magic. No one really knows what they are.

Sent from my Pixel Fold using Tapatalk

To primitive man, all those things are divine acts.

One way a guy explained Abrahamic religion to me once was that Abraham grabbed a rock, wondered where it came from, and concluded that a divine being put it there. Hence, Judaism.

It likely wasn't that simple, but it's also likely not that wrong.

Abraham predated Judaism by about 1500 years. Abraham was the first Hebrew. Some may say he was the first Muslim, it all really depends on whether you focus on his faith or his obedience.

If you are going to reject theism based on science, at least do so embracing the science of archaeology, considering the cultural context of the ancient near east and compare (Name*)-ism to the myths of especially Ugarit. Secular archaeology would suggest that the Hebrew religion was not made out of whole cloth as you would suggest.

* - where Name is the tetragrammaton, יהוה

Not as I suggest, as it was suggested to me.

[Oxmyx]

Yes, it could be any of those.

Finally.

Magic is just an advanced form of science...thoroughly explained.

One way a guy explained Abrahamic religion to me once was that Abraham grabbed a rock, wondered where it came from, and concluded that a divine being put it there. Hence, Judaism.

It likely wasn't that simple, but it's also likely not that wrong.

Abraham predated Judaism by about 1500 years. Abraham was the first Hebrew. Some may say he was the first Muslim, it all really depends on whether you focus on his faith or his obedience.

If you are going to reject theism based on science....

The religion of Abraham is a very interesting question. It has been pointed out to me that the Quran mentions Judaism, Islam, and THEN a seperate "faith of Abraham" which I've heard described variously as First Temple Judaism, Enochian Jews, the Yahwistic cult, and the faith of El (or was it El Elyan?). If i remember correctly, El a father god figure is present in all sorts of Biblical names. Bethel. Emmanuel. Babel. Daniel.

When you say that Abraham was the first Hebrew (or Jew, or Muslim) that makes me want to ask about his father and grandfather.

In defense of ManOfTheAtom, he was wise enough to say "Abrahamic" rather than Judaism or anything 1500 years later. He was also wise enough to say "it is probably not that simple" which would mean both of you can be correct.

[ManofTheAtom]

Yes, it could be any of those.

Finally.

Magic is just an advanced form of science...thoroughly explained.

One way a guy explained Abrahamic religion to me once was that Abraham grabbed a rock, wondered where it came from, and concluded that a divine being put it there. Hence, Judaism.

It likely wasn't that simple, but it's also likely not that wrong.

Abraham predated Judaism by about 1500 years. Abraham was the first Hebrew. Some may say he was the first Muslim, it all really depends on whether you focus on his faith or his obedience.

If you are going to reject theism based on science....

The religion of Abraham is a very interesting question. It has been pointed out to me that the Quran mentions Judaism, Islam, and THEN a seperate "faith of Abraham" which I've heard described variously as First Temple Judaism, Enochian Jews, the Yahwistic cult, and the faith of El (or was it El Elyan?). If i remember correctly, El a father god figure is present in all sorts of Biblical names. Bethel. Emmanuel. Babel. Daniel.

When you say that Abraham was the first Hebrew (or Jew, or Muslim) that makes me want to ask about his father and grandfather.

In defense of ManOfTheAtom, he was wise enough to say "Abrahamic" rather than Judaism or anything 1500 years later. He was also wise enough to say "it is probably not that simple" which would mean both of you can be correct.

Thanks.

[Chiclo]

Yes, it could be any of those.

Finally.

Magic is just an advanced form of science...thoroughly explained.

One way a guy explained Abrahamic religion to me once was that Abraham grabbed a rock, wondered where it came from, and concluded that a divine being put it there. Hence, Judaism.

It likely wasn't that simple, but it's also likely not that wrong.

Abraham predated Judaism by about 1500 years. Abraham was the first Hebrew. Some may say he was the first Muslim, it all really depends on whether you focus on his faith or his obedience.

If you are going to reject theism based on science....

The religion of Abraham is a very interesting question. It has been pointed out to me that the Quran mentions Judaism, Islam, and THEN a seperate "faith of Abraham" which I've heard described variously as First Temple Judaism, Enochian Jews, the Yahwistic cult, and the faith of El (or was it El Elyan?). If i remember correctly, El a father god figure is present in all sorts of Biblical names. Bethel. Emmanuel. Babel. Daniel.

When you say that Abraham was the first Hebrew (or Jew, or Muslim) that makes me want to ask about his father and grandfather.

In defense of ManOfTheAtom, he was wise enough to say "Abrahamic" rather than Judaism or anything 1500 years later. He was also wise enough to say "it is probably not that simple" which would mean both of you can be correct.

I want to write a thesis in response to this post. I will later, when I am at my keyboard. I hate typing long posts on the iPad.

Abraham became a Hebrew (or the first Muslim) when the Lord told to him to go with himself from his father’s household to a land He will show him. Abraham and his nephew Lot departed Abraham’s father Terah in Haran. This story is told at the beginning of the Torah portion Lech Lecha, Genesis 12 in a Christian Bible. This was not a genetic state of being but an active expression of faith that culminated in the binding of Isaac. The Biblical Narrative focuses on two of Abraham’s sons, Isaac and Ismael (another -el name). Isaac was considered a Hebrew, Ismael was not. I am not familiar enough with the Quran to comment on how Abraham’s sons are considered. The Bible also discusses two sons of Isaac, Esau and Jacob. Esau was not a Hebrew, Jacob was and his name changed to Israel (-el) and all of his sons and their sons were Hebrews. Judaism is taken from the name of Jacob’s fourth son, Judah.

Lots more names involve the names of gods, from John to Elijah to Sennacherib and Nebuchadnezzar.

[Chiclo]

Yes, it could be any of those.

Finally.

Magic is just an advanced form of science...thoroughly explained.

One way a guy explained Abrahamic religion to me once was that Abraham grabbed a rock, wondered where it came from, and concluded that a divine being put it there. Hence, Judaism.

It likely wasn't that simple, but it's also likely not that wrong.

Abraham predated Judaism by about 1500 years. Abraham was the first Hebrew. Some may say he was the first Muslim, it all really depends on whether you focus on his faith or his obedience.

If you are going to reject theism based on science....

The religion of Abraham is a very interesting question. It has been pointed out to me that the Quran mentions Judaism, Islam, and THEN a seperate "faith of Abraham" which I've heard described variously as First Temple Judaism, Enochian Jews, the Yahwistic cult, and the faith of El (or was it El Elyan?). If i remember correctly, El a father god figure is present in all sorts of Biblical names. Bethel. Emmanuel. Babel. Daniel.

When you say that Abraham was the first Hebrew (or Jew, or Muslim) that makes me want to ask about his father and grandfather.

In defense of ManOfTheAtom, he was wise enough to say "Abrahamic" rather than Judaism or anything 1500 years later. He was also wise enough to say "it is probably not that simple" which would mean both of you can be correct.

El Elyon could be translated as "god the highest". As I understand it, it is more of an Aramaic term than a Hebrew one. Aramaic influenced Hebrew greatly toward the end of the Old Testament era, with significant portions of Daniel and Ezra being written in Aramaic and spoken Hebrew was taking on a lot of Aramaic influence. Aramaic was the language of the man in the street during the New Testament era and, although the oldest manuscripts of the NT currently available are in Greek, Aramaic phrases like El Elyon are reflected in the text.

El (and plural Elohim) was one of three names used to describe the Lord in the Hebrew Old Testament, the other two being Adonai (translated as My Lords, plural) and by the tetragrammaton, יהוה, treated as the given name of the Lord and related to how He described Himself when asked. This name is treated with particular reverence, not spoken aloud because the vowels were lost and nobody is entirely sure how to pronounce this name. When reading the text aloud, this name is replaced with something else, usually Adonai or HaShem (the name). I would guess this was a three syllable word and that's about as far as I go. Most if not all of the Bible names that end in -iah are using the first part of this name. Uriah, Hananiah, Jeremiah... I get pretty Jewish about being careful with the Name, even being cautious when dealing with the English transliteration.

Some have made the claim that these disparate names referring to the same deity reflect some sort of polytheistic origins of the Hebrew religion, be it First Temple Judaism or the religion of Abraham or what have you. According to the Biblical timeline, Abraham lived about 2000 to 1850-ish BC, lived around 180 years (I don't remember the exact figure). He was 10 generations after Noah, who was himself 10 generations after Adam. The oldest book of the Bible is Job and Job was roughly contemporary with Abraham, although neither is mentioned in the chronicles of the other. The Bible claims that the first five books of the Bible were compiled by Moses who lived around 1550-ish to 1440-ish BC, so 400 years or so after Abraham's death. Abraham's story is found in Genesis. Biblical literalists claim that Genesis was written or compiled or edited by Moses or under his direction during his life and shortly thereafter (Deuteronomy ends with a description of Moses' death and burial); many less literal scholars say that Genesis was compiled later (maybe 1000 years later during the Exile?) from four different sources and one tentpole of this theory is the different names used for the Lord.

Scholarly debate continues as to what extent the religious leaders and temple priests worshipped other gods. Certainly the Biblical narrative tells over and over again how the people of Israel worshipped other gods. Some argue that the people and maybe even priesthood of Israel were henotheistic - believing that many gods exist but worshipping only one. The late Michael Heiser was one such advocate. The story of the golden calf and Moses can certainly be interpreted to support this claim, especially given that neighbouring tribes saw the bull as the totem of their god El.

There was a kingdom just north of present-day Israel centered around a city called Ugarit. Archaeologists have discovered troves of tablets from Ugarit, which fell around 1650 BC, two centuries before the Bible says the Hebrews returned to Canaan. The Ugarits were polytheistic and the names of some of their deities overlap with divine names in the Bible - El and even the Name. Some of the attributes of their deities are reflected in archaeological artifacts found in Israel during times when the Bible says Israel was prosperous in the land, like under King David. Attributes like the one they called by the Name having a wife.

Could Israel have taken their pantheon from the Ugarits, or could they be sister tribes that were handed the same mythology? If the Ugarits were related to the Hebrews and lived in the north during the time the Bible says Pharoah was oppressing them as slaves in Egypt, does that call into question the historicity or timing of the Exodus? I am confident saying that no, any similarities come from intertextuality, where they both preserved real events that had happened with varying degrees of accuracy. There is a lot of intertextuality and common themes between the Hebrew Bible and the works of their neighbours. The best known is probably the flood compared against the Akkadian flood stories of Utnapshim. Put in context, these overlaps or intersections are pretty obviously the Hebrews refuting the myths of their neighbours. Genesis and Exodus are more or less diss tracks against anyone and everyone they ever met, especially Babylonians and Egyptians.

Any claim as to the origin of Abraham's religion would definitely have to consider the cultural context in which he lived. His religions are run through with intersections with thousands of years of the worlds around them - about two and a half millennia separate Abraham's birth and Mohammed's death.

Sorry, I get really into Biblical archaeology and assyriology.

[ManofTheAtom]

This took an interesting turn, heh.

[Ryan]

Wow, what a thread

[Oxmyx]

Yes, it could be any of those.

Finally.

Magic is just an advanced form of science...thoroughly explained.

One way a guy explained Abrahamic religion to me once was that Abraham grabbed a rock, wondered where it came from, and concluded that a divine being put it there. Hence, Judaism.

It likely wasn't that simple, but it's also likely not that wrong.

Abraham predated Judaism by about 1500 years. Abraham was the first Hebrew. Some may say he was the first Muslim, it all really depends on whether you focus on his faith or his obedience.

If you are going to reject theism based on science....

The religion of Abraham is a very interesting question. It has been pointed out to me that the Quran mentions Judaism, Islam, and THEN a seperate "faith of Abraham" which I've heard described variously as First Temple Judaism, Enochian Jews, the Yahwistic cult, and the faith of El (or was it El Elyan?). If i remember correctly, El a father god figure is present in all sorts of Biblical names. Bethel. Emmanuel. Babel. Daniel.

When you say that Abraham was the first Hebrew (or Jew, or Muslim) that makes me want to ask about his father and grandfather.

In defense of ManOfTheAtom, he was wise enough to say "Abrahamic" rather than Judaism or anything 1500 years later. He was also wise enough to say "it is probably not that simple" which would mean both of you can be correct.

El Elyon could be translated as "god the highest". .... Sorry, I get really into Biblical archaeology and assyriology.

No need to apologize. It's certainly part of what makes you layered. Like a cake. A moist Biblical cake :-p

I've heard it said that Psalms is an especially early-written book of the Bible. (I don't know too much about Job.) But does that agree with your scholarship?

[Chiclo]

Magic is just an advanced form of science...thoroughly explained.

One way a guy explained Abrahamic religion to me once was that Abraham grabbed a rock, wondered where it came from, and concluded that a divine being put it there. Hence, Judaism.

It likely wasn't that simple, but it's also likely not that wrong.

Abraham predated Judaism by about 1500 years. Abraham was the first Hebrew. Some may say he was the first Muslim, it all really depends on whether you focus on his faith or his obedience.

If you are going to reject theism based on science....

The religion of Abraham is a very interesting question. It has been pointed out to me that the Quran mentions Judaism, Islam, and THEN a seperate "faith of Abraham" which I've heard described variously as First Temple Judaism, Enochian Jews, the Yahwistic cult, and the faith of El (or was it El Elyan?). If i remember correctly, El a father god figure is present in all sorts of Biblical names. Bethel. Emmanuel. Babel. Daniel.

When you say that Abraham was the first Hebrew (or Jew, or Muslim) that makes me want to ask about his father and grandfather.

In defense of ManOfTheAtom, he was wise enough to say "Abrahamic" rather than Judaism or anything 1500 years later. He was also wise enough to say "it is probably not that simple" which would mean both of you can be correct.

El Elyon could be translated as "god the highest". .... Sorry, I get really into Biblical archaeology and assyriology.

No need to apologize. It's certainly part of what makes you layered. Like a cake. A moist Biblical cake :-p

I've heard it said that Psalms is an especially early-written book of the Bible. (I don't know too much about Job.) But does that agree with your scholarship?

Psalms is a compilation. Different Psalms were written by different authors. The first few dozen were attributed to David (ca 1000 BC), others were written by others, some before some after. It is a collection of songs.

Protestant Bibles have 150 chapters in the Book of Psalms. Catholic Bibles have 151.

[Chiclo]

https://youtu.be/lxg4dcKH6aU?si=_0MG5ZexyXJ4FQ9y

https://youtu.be/RWM8gSSnz_8?si=lvv2CB_Ju7NjJMsT

[lorddunlow]

The Binding of Isaac remains the most screwed up story of any mythology/religion.

God: sacrifice your infant son to me to show your obedience.

Abraham: okay. :picks up knife and starts to murder his only son:

God: stop. I was just joking... It was a test.


Abraham: oh good, that was going to really be a strange conversation with his mother...

God: actually, cut off the end of his penis - I made it unclean and now it requires aftermarket modifications... Make sure he does it his son and his son's sons, ad infinitum. It's okay. It'll just look like that weird monster that Willow accidentally makes when he tried to kill a troll.



Circumcision is weird.





Sent from my Pixel Fold using Tapatalk

[ManofTheAtom]

The Binding of Isaac remains the most screwed up story of any mythology/religion.

God: sacrifice your infant son to me to show your obedience.

Abraham: okay. :picks up knife and starts to murder his only son:

God: stop. I was just joking... It was a test.


Abraham: oh good, that was going to really be a strange conversation with his mother...

God: actually, cut off the end of his penis - I made it unclean and now it requires aftermarket modifications... Make sure he does it his son and his son's sons, ad infinitum. It's okay. It'll just look like that weird monster that Willow accidentally makes when he tried to kill a troll.



Circumcision is weird.





Sent from my Pixel Fold using Tapatalk

The turn this thread took is weird, but it's still within the frame of the world outside our window, lol.

So, which VALIANT characters are Jewish? lol

[Chiclo]

The Binding of Isaac remains the most screwed up story of any mythology/religion.

God: sacrifice your infant son to me to show your obedience.

Abraham: okay. :picks up knife and starts to murder his only son:

God: stop. I was just joking... It was a test.


Abraham: oh good, that was going to really be a strange conversation with his mother...

God: actually, cut off the end of his penis - I made it unclean and now it requires aftermarket modifications... Make sure he does it his son and his son's sons, ad infinitum. It's okay. It'll just look like that weird monster that Willow accidentally makes when he tried to kill a troll.



Circumcision is weird.





Sent from my Pixel Fold using Tapatalk

Off the top of my head, I think circumcision as a sign of the covenant was adopted before Isaac was bourne. The Scriptures mention Ishmael’s circumcision, I think just Ishmael, who was around 15 years older than Isaac. Isaac was probably circumcised at around 8 days old and he was likely 30+ years old at the binding.

[Sunlight on Snow]

One member of the Bloodshot Squad is certainly Jewish. During his Days Off flashbacks he is visiting a Jewish cemetery and synagogue in New York.

I think it's Tank Man. If not Tank Man, then Quiet Man. However, I believe Quiet Man is (or was) the Gulf War veteran.

And then there's Moishe Gumpertz from the Fameotorium.

[ManofTheAtom]

One member of the Bloodshot Squad is certainly Jewish. During his Days Off flashbacks he is visiting a Jewish cemetery and synagogue in New York.

I think it's Tank Man. If not Tank Man, then Quiet Man. However, I believe Quiet Man is (or was) the Gulf War veteran.

And then there's Moishe Gumpertz from the Fameotorium.

[Oxmyx]

God: actually, cut off the end of his penis - it requires aftermarket modifications..
Circumcision is weird.

The turn this thread took is weird, but it's still within the frame of the world outside our window, lol.

So, which VALIANT characters are Jewish? lol

Definitely not Jewish but who wants to bet Archer was circumcised?

[ManofTheAtom]

God: actually, cut off the end of his penis - it requires aftermarket modifications..
Circumcision is weird.

The turn this thread took is weird, but it's still within the frame of the world outside our window, lol.

So, which VALIANT characters are Jewish? lol

Definitely not Jewish but who wants to bet Archer was circumcised?