Yet another Alien rumor

[Ryan]

We're all just speculating right? Or have some people gotten official word that Valiant and DMG are separate entities and Valiant takes no responsibility for undelivered DMG products that use the Valiant name and characters?

[ManofTheAtom]

We're all just speculating right? Or have some people gotten official word that Valiant and DMG are separate entities and Valiant takes no responsibility for undelivered DMG products that use the Valiant name and characters?

Not the issue. The issue is which human being is responsible. As I asked, if there any evidence it was anyone that works at VALIANT, like Pierce, Black, or Ward? The answer was no.

The person everyone agrees is responsible was Mintz, the literal DM in DMG.

DMG and VALIANT are no more the same than Disney is the same as Marvel, even if one owns the other.

If Bob Iger runs over an orphan, we don't blame Kevin Feige for it.

[Ryan]

We're all just speculating right? Or have some people gotten official word that Valiant and DMG are separate entities and Valiant takes no responsibility for undelivered DMG products that use the Valiant name and characters?

Not the issue. The issue is which human being is responsible. As I asked, if there any evidence it was anyone that works at VALIANT, like Pierce, Black, or Ward? The answer was no.

The person everyone agrees is responsible was Mintz, the literal DM in DMG.

DMG and VALIANT are no more the same than Disney is the same as Marvel, even if one owns the other.

If Bob Iger runs over an orphan, we don't blame Kevin Feige for it.

I'm really sort of over this whole issue, I just thought if things are how you're portraying it should be easy to get that confirmed by the Valiant employees who post on here. Instead we have 7 pages of back and forth, with no confirmation either way by people who would know

[ManofTheAtom]

We're all just speculating right? Or have some people gotten official word that Valiant and DMG are separate entities and Valiant takes no responsibility for undelivered DMG products that use the Valiant name and characters?

Not the issue. The issue is which human being is responsible. As I asked, if there any evidence it was anyone that works at VALIANT, like Pierce, Black, or Ward? The answer was no.

The person everyone agrees is responsible was Mintz, the literal DM in DMG.

DMG and VALIANT are no more the same than Disney is the same as Marvel, even if one owns the other.

If Bob Iger runs over an orphan, we don't blame Kevin Feige for it.

I'm really sort of over this whole issue, I just thought if things are how you're portraying it should be easy to get that confirmed by the Valiant employees who post on here. Instead we have 7 pages of back and forth, with no confirmation either way by people who would know

Is a confirmation really required, though?

Do we really need for it to be confirmed that Pierce and Black didn't defraud the people that pledged their money?

These are people that have been associated with VALIANT for decades. Pierce was at Voyager and Black was at Acclaim. I doubt they waited all that time for Kickstarter to be created just so they could fleece people.

Dinesh sought them out to work at VEI, which means he trusted them.

[Ryan]

Is a confirmation really required, though?

Do we really need for it to be confirmed that Pierce and Black didn't defraud the people that pledged their money?

These are people that have been associated with VALIANT for decades. Pierce was at Voyager and Black was at Acclaim. I doubt they waited all that time for Kickstarter to be created just so they could fleece people.

Dinesh sought them out to work at VEI, which means he trusted them.

Clearly if there's been 7 pages of back and forth there isn't agreement on the opinions being expressed.

No one has said anything about Pierce and Black, the point of contention is if DMG and Valiant are completely separate entities. That's it.

[ManofTheAtom]

Is a confirmation really required, though?

Do we really need for it to be confirmed that Pierce and Black didn't defraud the people that pledged their money?

These are people that have been associated with VALIANT for decades. Pierce was at Voyager and Black was at Acclaim. I doubt they waited all that time for Kickstarter to be created just so they could fleece people.

Dinesh sought them out to work at VEI, which means he trusted them.

Clearly if there's been 7 pages of back and forth there isn't agreement on the opinions being expressed.

No one has said anything about Pierce and Black, the point of contention is if DMG and Valiant are completely separate entities. That's it.

One owns the other. That is factual. That does not mean that the people working at VALIANT are to blame for the bad decisions made by DMG, such as refusing to fulfill the Kickstarter.

It goes back to what's been said earlier, that there is no indication that VALIANT (meaning Pierce, Black, Ward, etc.) are the ones refusing to fulfill the Kickstarter.

[Ryan]

Is a confirmation really required, though?

Do we really need for it to be confirmed that Pierce and Black didn't defraud the people that pledged their money?

These are people that have been associated with VALIANT for decades. Pierce was at Voyager and Black was at Acclaim. I doubt they waited all that time for Kickstarter to be created just so they could fleece people.

Dinesh sought them out to work at VEI, which means he trusted them.

Clearly if there's been 7 pages of back and forth there isn't agreement on the opinions being expressed.

No one has said anything about Pierce and Black, the point of contention is if DMG and Valiant are completely separate entities. That's it.

One owns the other. That is factual. That does not mean that the people working at VALIANT are to blame for the bad decisions made by DMG, such as refusing to fulfill the Kickstarter.

It goes back to what's been said earlier, that there is no indication that VALIANT (meaning Pierce, Black, Ward, etc.) are the ones refusing to fulfill the Kickstarter.

I don't think people are out to blame, just to be able to ask questions.

The main issue that started all this (I think) is that people got offended that syzhang was asking questions to the Valiant employees who posted on here. They're afraid that this kind of behavior will stop them from posting here.

I'm just saying it seems fair that people who were ripped off by something calling itself Valiant Entertainment should be able to ask questions about it to people who are on here who work for Valiant Entertainment and not be run off for it.

I haven't seen any toxic or overly hostile comments towards anyone at Valiant. I just hate it when the fans run off other fans for having minor disagreements or for trying to curry favor to get 'insider status'. It's partially why so many have stopped posting here IMO.

[ManofTheAtom]

Is a confirmation really required, though?

Do we really need for it to be confirmed that Pierce and Black didn't defraud the people that pledged their money?

These are people that have been associated with VALIANT for decades. Pierce was at Voyager and Black was at Acclaim. I doubt they waited all that time for Kickstarter to be created just so they could fleece people.

Dinesh sought them out to work at VEI, which means he trusted them.

Clearly if there's been 7 pages of back and forth there isn't agreement on the opinions being expressed.

No one has said anything about Pierce and Black, the point of contention is if DMG and Valiant are completely separate entities. That's it.

One owns the other. That is factual. That does not mean that the people working at VALIANT are to blame for the bad decisions made by DMG, such as refusing to fulfill the Kickstarter.

It goes back to what's been said earlier, that there is no indication that VALIANT (meaning Pierce, Black, Ward, etc.) are the ones refusing to fulfill the Kickstarter.

I don't think people are out to blame, just to be able to ask questions.

The main issue that started all this (I think) is that people got offended that syzhang was asking questions to the Valiant employees who posted on here. They're afraid that this kind of behavior will stop them from posting here.

I'm just saying it seems fair that people who were ripped off by something calling itself Valiant Entertainment should be able to ask questions about it to people who are on here who work for Valiant Entertainment and not be run off for it.

I haven't seen any toxic or overly hostile comments towards anyone at Valiant. I just hate it when the fans run off other fans for having minor disagreements or for trying to curry favor to get 'insider status'. It's partially why so many have stopped posting here IMO.

Indeed. Nothing wrong with it at all.

I just do think that any anger and such should be directed at the right person. Not at a corporate entity, like VALIANT, but to the person or people actually responsible for screwing over the fans.

[Ryan]

Is a confirmation really required, though?

Do we really need for it to be confirmed that Pierce and Black didn't defraud the people that pledged their money?

These are people that have been associated with VALIANT for decades. Pierce was at Voyager and Black was at Acclaim. I doubt they waited all that time for Kickstarter to be created just so they could fleece people.

Dinesh sought them out to work at VEI, which means he trusted them.

Clearly if there's been 7 pages of back and forth there isn't agreement on the opinions being expressed.

No one has said anything about Pierce and Black, the point of contention is if DMG and Valiant are completely separate entities. That's it.

One owns the other. That is factual. That does not mean that the people working at VALIANT are to blame for the bad decisions made by DMG, such as refusing to fulfill the Kickstarter.

It goes back to what's been said earlier, that there is no indication that VALIANT (meaning Pierce, Black, Ward, etc.) are the ones refusing to fulfill the Kickstarter.

I don't think people are out to blame, just to be able to ask questions.

The main issue that started all this (I think) is that people got offended that syzhang was asking questions to the Valiant employees who posted on here. They're afraid that this kind of behavior will stop them from posting here.

I'm just saying it seems fair that people who were ripped off by something calling itself Valiant Entertainment should be able to ask questions about it to people who are on here who work for Valiant Entertainment and not be run off for it.

I haven't seen any toxic or overly hostile comments towards anyone at Valiant. I just hate it when the fans run off other fans for having minor disagreements or for trying to curry favor to get 'insider status'. It's partially why so many have stopped posting here IMO.

Indeed. Nothing wrong with it at all.

I just do think that any anger and such should be directed at the right person. Not at a corporate entity, like VALIANT, but to the person or people actually responsible for screwing over the fans.

Totally. No one should be called out for things they had no control over. But people should be able to ask what's going on. It would be easy enough to clear up. I feel like the kickstarter might still get printed once things get sorted out over there, really no reason not to.

We all know there's some toxicity in every fanbase. No one wants that. But we also can't just lump every criticism or difference of opinion into the 'toxic' category. We should be able to discuss things openly if people are angry about something legitimate. I would hope that wouldn't prevent Valiant employees from posting on here, there's a wealth of in-depth opinions and knowledge about Valiant on here.

[ManofTheAtom]

Is a confirmation really required, though?

Do we really need for it to be confirmed that Pierce and Black didn't defraud the people that pledged their money?

These are people that have been associated with VALIANT for decades. Pierce was at Voyager and Black was at Acclaim. I doubt they waited all that time for Kickstarter to be created just so they could fleece people.

Dinesh sought them out to work at VEI, which means he trusted them.

Clearly if there's been 7 pages of back and forth there isn't agreement on the opinions being expressed.

No one has said anything about Pierce and Black, the point of contention is if DMG and Valiant are completely separate entities. That's it.

One owns the other. That is factual. That does not mean that the people working at VALIANT are to blame for the bad decisions made by DMG, such as refusing to fulfill the Kickstarter.

It goes back to what's been said earlier, that there is no indication that VALIANT (meaning Pierce, Black, Ward, etc.) are the ones refusing to fulfill the Kickstarter.

I don't think people are out to blame, just to be able to ask questions.

The main issue that started all this (I think) is that people got offended that syzhang was asking questions to the Valiant employees who posted on here. They're afraid that this kind of behavior will stop them from posting here.

I'm just saying it seems fair that people who were ripped off by something calling itself Valiant Entertainment should be able to ask questions about it to people who are on here who work for Valiant Entertainment and not be run off for it.

I haven't seen any toxic or overly hostile comments towards anyone at Valiant. I just hate it when the fans run off other fans for having minor disagreements or for trying to curry favor to get 'insider status'. It's partially why so many have stopped posting here IMO.

Indeed. Nothing wrong with it at all.

I just do think that any anger and such should be directed at the right person. Not at a corporate entity, like VALIANT, but to the person or people actually responsible for screwing over the fans.

Totally. No one should be called out for things they had no control over. But people should be able to ask what's going on. It would be easy enough to clear up. I feel like the kickstarter might still get printed once things get sorted out over there, really no reason not to.

We all know there's some toxicity in every fanbase. No one wants that. But we also can't just lump every criticism or difference of opinion into the 'toxic' category. We should be able to discuss things openly if people are angry about something legitimate. I would hope that wouldn't prevent Valiant employees from posting on here, there's a wealth of in-depth opinions and knowledge about Valiant on here.

Indeed.

[syzhang28]

We're all just speculating right? Or have some people gotten official word that Valiant and DMG are separate entities and Valiant takes no responsibility for undelivered DMG products that use the Valiant name and characters?

Not the issue. The issue is which human being is responsible. As I asked, if there any evidence it was anyone that works at VALIANT, like Pierce, Black, or Ward? The answer was no.

The person everyone agrees is responsible was Mintz, the literal DM in DMG.

DMG and VALIANT are no more the same than Disney is the same as Marvel, even if one owns the other.

If Bob Iger runs over an orphan, we don't blame Kevin Feige for it.

Again, you're misinformed. DMG does not stand for Dan Mintz Group or something lol. Quick google could have avoided this misinformation.

Also, I think Ryan has hit the issue on the head. Don't think you such dismiss him like that.

Bob Iger forced Marvel to make a bunch of TV shows for their streaming service. Those shows were crap. And yes, we do all blame Feige.

[syzhang28]

We're all just speculating right? Or have some people gotten official word that Valiant and DMG are separate entities and Valiant takes no responsibility for undelivered DMG products that use the Valiant name and characters?

Not the issue. The issue is which human being is responsible. As I asked, if there any evidence it was anyone that works at VALIANT, like Pierce, Black, or Ward? The answer was no.

The person everyone agrees is responsible was Mintz, the literal DM in DMG.

DMG and VALIANT are no more the same than Disney is the same as Marvel, even if one owns the other.

If Bob Iger runs over an orphan, we don't blame Kevin Feige for it.

I'm really sort of over this whole issue, I just thought if things are how you're portraying it should be easy to get that confirmed by the Valiant employees who post on here. Instead we have 7 pages of back and forth, with no confirmation either way by people who would know

Is a confirmation really required, though?

Do we really need for it to be confirmed that Pierce and Black didn't defraud the people that pledged their money?

These are people that have been associated with VALIANT for decades. Pierce was at Voyager and Black was at Acclaim. I doubt they waited all that time for Kickstarter to be created just so they could fleece people.

Dinesh sought them out to work at VEI, which means he trusted them.

There's more assumptions than words here.

Pierce oversaw the dismantling of Valiant once before.
Black oversaw the dismantling of Valiant at Acclaim.
History says they are just doing what they did before. Both of those endings left many people unpaid.
Dinesh is a smart businessman and smart businessman know you hire for talent, not trust. Many great talents are the devil you know, not the angel you want.

[syzhang28]

Is a confirmation really required, though?

Do we really need for it to be confirmed that Pierce and Black didn't defraud the people that pledged their money?

These are people that have been associated with VALIANT for decades. Pierce was at Voyager and Black was at Acclaim. I doubt they waited all that time for Kickstarter to be created just so they could fleece people.

Dinesh sought them out to work at VEI, which means he trusted them.

Clearly if there's been 7 pages of back and forth there isn't agreement on the opinions being expressed.

No one has said anything about Pierce and Black, the point of contention is if DMG and Valiant are completely separate entities. That's it.

Well said

[Ryan]

There's more assumptions than words here.

Pierce oversaw the dismantling of Valiant once before.
Black oversaw the dismantling of Valiant at Acclaim.
History says they are just doing what they did before. Both of those endings left many people unpaid.
Dinesh is a smart businessman and smart businessman know you hire for talent, not trust. Many great talents are the devil you know, not the angel you want.

Sometimes I feel like ever since Valiant had that one great surge of popularity right after Unity, when it felt inevitable that they were about to become a strong 3rd wheel to Marvel and DC, it's been nothing but Julius Caesar Machiavellian back-stabbing drama ever since. It's sad.

[Ryan]

There's more assumptions than words here.

Pierce oversaw the dismantling of Valiant once before.
Black oversaw the dismantling of Valiant at Acclaim.
History says they are just doing what they did before. Both of those endings left many people unpaid.
Dinesh is a smart businessman and smart businessman know you hire for talent, not trust. Many great talents are the devil you know, not the angel you want.

Sometimes I feel like ever since Valiant had that one great surge of popularity right after Unity, when it felt inevitable that they were about to become a strong 3rd wheel to Marvel and DC, it's been nothing but Julius Caesar Machiavellian back-stabbing drama ever since. It's sad.

Dino did have a great 5 year run but even he had to spend years dealing with VIP(Dynamite) trying to steal the copyrights, the Shooter fiasco, and probably tons of other drama we don't know about. Then in the end he got unceremoniously bought out and ousted

[Chiclo]

There's more assumptions than words here.

Pierce oversaw the dismantling of Valiant once before.
Black oversaw the dismantling of Valiant at Acclaim.
History says they are just doing what they did before. Both of those endings left many people unpaid.
Dinesh is a smart businessman and smart businessman know you hire for talent, not trust. Many great talents are the devil you know, not the angel you want.

Sometimes I feel like ever since Valiant had that one great surge of popularity right after Unity, when it felt inevitable that they were about to become a strong 3rd wheel to Marvel and DC, it's been nothing but Julius Caesar Machiavellian back-stabbing drama ever since. It's sad.

Dino did have a great 5 year run but even he had to spend years dealing with VIP(Dynamite) trying to steal the copyrights, the Shooter fiasco, and probably tons of other drama we don't know about. Then in the end he got unceremoniously bought out and ousted

At the 2010 SDCC poker game that never got the cards out, he described what he was doing like spinning a bunch of different plates. It really was quite marvelous that he got Valiant off the ground at all, much less put out quality comics like he did. There were several relaunches around then, Atlas and Milestone come to mind. Atlas made it what, 6 months, 4 titles? I read one issue in literally 90 seconds once. Milestone couldn’t do much better as part of DC.

Dino succeeded in just about any metric concievable.

[Ryan]

There's more assumptions than words here.

Pierce oversaw the dismantling of Valiant once before.
Black oversaw the dismantling of Valiant at Acclaim.
History says they are just doing what they did before. Both of those endings left many people unpaid.
Dinesh is a smart businessman and smart businessman know you hire for talent, not trust. Many great talents are the devil you know, not the angel you want.

Sometimes I feel like ever since Valiant had that one great surge of popularity right after Unity, when it felt inevitable that they were about to become a strong 3rd wheel to Marvel and DC, it's been nothing but Julius Caesar Machiavellian back-stabbing drama ever since. It's sad.

Dino did have a great 5 year run but even he had to spend years dealing with VIP(Dynamite) trying to steal the copyrights, the Shooter fiasco, and probably tons of other drama we don't know about. Then in the end he got unceremoniously bought out and ousted

At the 2010 SDCC poker game that never got the cards out, he described what he was doing like spinning a bunch of different plates. It really was quite marvelous that he got Valiant off the ground at all, much less put out quality comics like he did. There were several relaunches around then, Atlas and Milestone come to mind. Atlas made it what, 6 months, 4 titles? I read one issue in literally 90 seconds once. Milestone couldn’t do much better as part of DC.

Dino succeeded in just about any metric conceivable.

No doubt.

[syzhang28]

There's more assumptions than words here.

Pierce oversaw the dismantling of Valiant once before.
Black oversaw the dismantling of Valiant at Acclaim.
History says they are just doing what they did before. Both of those endings left many people unpaid.
Dinesh is a smart businessman and smart businessman know you hire for talent, not trust. Many great talents are the devil you know, not the angel you want.

Sometimes I feel like ever since Valiant had that one great surge of popularity right after Unity, when it felt inevitable that they were about to become a strong 3rd wheel to Marvel and DC, it's been nothing but Julius Caesar Machiavellian back-stabbing drama ever since. It's sad.

To be fair it was that from the start though. Didn't Jim Shooter force a vote to oust a founder 3 months after they formed. And then right before Unity came out the others forced a vote to oust Shooter. I think Julius Caesar Machiavellian back-stabbing drama is in the very bones of Valiant

[syzhang28]

There's more assumptions than words here.

Pierce oversaw the dismantling of Valiant once before.
Black oversaw the dismantling of Valiant at Acclaim.
History says they are just doing what they did before. Both of those endings left many people unpaid.
Dinesh is a smart businessman and smart businessman know you hire for talent, not trust. Many great talents are the devil you know, not the angel you want.

Sometimes I feel like ever since Valiant had that one great surge of popularity right after Unity, when it felt inevitable that they were about to become a strong 3rd wheel to Marvel and DC, it's been nothing but Julius Caesar Machiavellian back-stabbing drama ever since. It's sad.

Dino did have a great 5 year run but even he had to spend years dealing with VIP(Dynamite) trying to steal the copyrights, the Shooter fiasco, and probably tons of other drama we don't know about. Then in the end he got unceremoniously bought out and ousted

I forgot about that VIP fiasco.

[syzhang28]

There's more assumptions than words here.

Pierce oversaw the dismantling of Valiant once before.
Black oversaw the dismantling of Valiant at Acclaim.
History says they are just doing what they did before. Both of those endings left many people unpaid.
Dinesh is a smart businessman and smart businessman know you hire for talent, not trust. Many great talents are the devil you know, not the angel you want.

Sometimes I feel like ever since Valiant had that one great surge of popularity right after Unity, when it felt inevitable that they were about to become a strong 3rd wheel to Marvel and DC, it's been nothing but Julius Caesar Machiavellian back-stabbing drama ever since. It's sad.

Dino did have a great 5 year run but even he had to spend years dealing with VIP(Dynamite) trying to steal the copyrights, the Shooter fiasco, and probably tons of other drama we don't know about. Then in the end he got unceremoniously bought out and ousted

At the 2010 SDCC poker game that never got the cards out, he described what he was doing like spinning a bunch of different plates. It really was quite marvelous that he got Valiant off the ground at all, much less put out quality comics like he did. There were several relaunches around then, Atlas and Milestone come to mind. Atlas made it what, 6 months, 4 titles? I read one issue in literally 90 seconds once. Milestone couldn’t do much better as part of DC.

Dino succeeded in just about any metric concievable.

Extreme relaunched just months before Valiant, no one even remembers that. Also DarkKey was just a few years before and that failed pretty spectacularly. In many ways we are really lucky. If we were fans of any other universe except the big 2 we'd still be waiting for the great relaunch. But here we are waiting for the 3rd great one lol

[8ValiantFan8]

To possibly get some answers on who is calling the shots at Valiant, I've heard some fans plan to attend this trial where DMG is the defendant:

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/idws-ch ... wners-dmg/

Chinese DMG executives will obviously be in attendance. But is it true? Are any of you really going to this on October 23 in Los Angeles?

So curious...

[syzhang28]

To possibly get some answers on who is calling the shots at Valiant, I've heard some fans plan to attend this trial where DMG is the defendant:

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/idws-ch ... wners-dmg/

Chinese DMG executives will obviously be in attendance. But is it true? Are any of you really going to this on October 23 in Los Angeles?

So curious...

Wow. MOTA may not understand this since he's never had a job where he worked for someone but its not hard to see how Valiant could fail so spectacularly after Dinesh when these clowns are running it.

[ManofTheAtom]

To possibly get some answers on who is calling the shots at Valiant, I've heard some fans plan to attend this trial where DMG is the defendant:

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/idws-ch ... wners-dmg/

Chinese DMG executives will obviously be in attendance. But is it true? Are any of you really going to this on October 23 in Los Angeles?

So curious...

Wow. MOTA may not understand this since he's never had a job where he worked for someone but its not hard to see how Valiant could fail so spectacularly after Dinesh when these clowns are running it.

Why are you bringing me into this in response to someone else?