Shadowman to end with #11

[jmatt]

For the life of me, I can't understand why they don't try to get Harbinger back on track. Get the band back together and give them a run. Like in the Dysart days. It's a major pillar that's just dying on the vine.

[The Chosen 1]

September numbers from Comichron (shipped to stores, not actual sales)
http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicss ... 18-09.html

210 X-O Manowar 19 8,257
226 Harbinger Wars 2 Aftermath 1 6,974
233 Shadowman 7 6,195
242 Ninja-K 11 5,923
250 Faith Dreamside 1 5,752
256 Britannia Lost Eagles of Rome 3 5,421
283 Quantum & Woody 10 4,368

If 6,000 isn't enough to keep Shadowman afloat, what about all the other titles? What about Faith with a new number 1 that debuts at less than 6,000?

Shadowman is my favorite Valiant (non-GK3) character, and I didn't even make it past issue 1. Neither of the main characters were likable, Jack and his powers were never explained or demonstrated, too much unexplained magic, no hook whatsoever.

In the 'it could be worse' category, here's where Lion Forge Catalyst Prime flagship character Noble finds himself on the same Comichron chart:

494 Catalyst Prime Noble 11 Lion Forge 582

582 How can any professionally produced comic book exist with those numbers?

Savage Dragon #238 - 3,668 copies. Which means there might be 3,800 or real copies of that book produced. I know that the readership is largely being maintained by Gen Xer's at this point, but considering that we are mostly in our 40's now, there are still readership years left and I'd say that those Dragon books still have the potential to just explode on the market - especially if Larson ever gets actually buys regarding the IP again and we get an 80's style animated series, an anime or, -gulp- a Dragon movie.

And this current Shadowman run we could be looking at such small printings that hoarding Diggle's run might not entirely be a bad idea, which I think will be a locked in great idea if Bloodshot does well. Given Valiant's stable, Shadowman is easily in the top 4 for Valiant Universe movie making.

And someone please correct me here if I am missing something....
From the same ComicChron link as was presented in the Shadowman thread.

According to the list, "Tony Stark... Iron Man" squeaked into the top 500 at #450, but that list claims 983 copies.

450 469 Tony Stark Iron Man 3 $3.99 08/15/18 Marvel 983

I don't even know what to say about that. Am I missing something? If that shipped number is correct, then lets account for other channels of distribution as outlined in the ComicChron FAQ and let's say that there were actually 2,000 copies total print (which I still can't wrap my head around). So that makes the Tony Stark Iron Man #3 variants maybe as limited as some of the Alex Ross virgin variants? What am I missing here?!?

Do we know what the numbers are for digital sales? Could this be the reason why actual print copies are low but the titles are still being produced? I know people who have only ever bought digital comics, and they are the next generation of readers.

[IMJ]

September numbers from Comichron (shipped to stores, not actual sales)
http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicss ... 18-09.html

210 X-O Manowar 19 8,257
226 Harbinger Wars 2 Aftermath 1 6,974
233 Shadowman 7 6,195
242 Ninja-K 11 5,923
250 Faith Dreamside 1 5,752
256 Britannia Lost Eagles of Rome 3 5,421
283 Quantum & Woody 10 4,368

If 6,000 isn't enough to keep Shadowman afloat, what about all the other titles? What about Faith with a new number 1 that debuts at less than 6,000?

Shadowman is my favorite Valiant (non-GK3) character, and I didn't even make it past issue 1. Neither of the main characters were likable, Jack and his powers were never explained or demonstrated, too much unexplained magic, no hook whatsoever.

In the 'it could be worse' category, here's where Lion Forge Catalyst Prime flagship character Noble finds himself on the same Comichron chart:

494 Catalyst Prime Noble 11 Lion Forge 582

582 How can any professionally produced comic book exist with those numbers?

Savage Dragon #238 - 3,668 copies. Which means there might be 3,800 or real copies of that book produced. I know that the readership is largely being maintained by Gen Xer's at this point, but considering that we are mostly in our 40's now, there are still readership years left and I'd say that those Dragon books still have the potential to just explode on the market - especially if Larson ever gets actually busy regarding the IP again and we get an 80's style animated series, an anime or, -gulp- a Dragon movie.

And this current Shadowman run we could be looking at such small printings that hoarding Diggle's run might not entirely be a bad idea, which I think will be a locked in great idea if Bloodshot does well. Given Valiant's stable, Shadowman is easily in the top 4 for Valiant Universe movie making.

And someone please correct me here if I am missing something....
From the same ComicChron link as was presented in the Shadowman thread.

According to the list, "Tony Stark... Iron Man" squeaked into the top 500 at #450, but that list claims 983 copies.

450 469 Tony Stark Iron Man 3 $3.99 08/15/18 Marvel 983

I don't even know what to say about that. Am I missing something? If that shipped number is correct, then lets account for other channels of distribution as outlined in the ComicChron FAQ and let's say that there were actually 2,000 copies total print (which I still can't wrap my head around). So that makes the Tony Stark Iron Man #3 variants maybe as limited as some of the Alex Ross virgin variants? What am I missing here?!?

Do we know what the numbers are for digital sales? Could this be the reason why actual print copies are low but the titles are still being produced? I know people who have only ever bought digital comics, and they are the next generation of readers.

From the website:
copies that comics shops bought from anyone besides Diamond, such as other book distributors or direct orders from publishers

• and anything digital. There is no source for digital sales figures on individual titles.

[Ryan]

And someone please correct me here if I am missing something....
From the same ComicChron link as was presented in the Shadowman thread.

According to the list, "Tony Stark... Iron Man" squeaked into the top 500 at #450, but that list claims 983 copies.

450 469 Tony Stark Iron Man 3 $3.99 08/15/18 Marvel 983

I don't even know what to say about that. Am I missing something? If that shipped number is correct, then lets account for other channels of distribution as outlined in the ComicChron FAQ and let's say that there were actually 2,000 copies total print (which I still can't wrap my head around). So that makes the Tony Stark Iron Man #3 variants maybe as limited as some of the Alex Ross virgin variants? What am I missing here?!?

Yeah a lot of the comics at the bottom of the top 500 are reprints, variants, and reorders. That's why there's some big name comics down there.

As for digital, there's definitely some sales there but I think it's a pretty small %.

There's an argument to be made that comics are declining because of internet, video games, etc. It's certainly valid and probably part of the truth. But I think the way modern comics are made is also part of the problem.

[Ryan]

For the life of me, I can't understand why they don't try to get Harbinger back on track. Get the band back together and give them a run. Like in the Dysart days. It's a major pillar that's just dying on the vine.

Agree. Harbinger is maybe the most important book they have. One of the most recognizable Valiant titles by general comic fans. A team book about a diverse group of teens, one of the most accessible books if done right.

[TheFerg714]

This sucks. Plain and simple. I honestly thought Shadowman would be the one series that would continue on into DMG's reign, but it looks like that's not going to happen. I'm so disappointed. All of my favorite franchises are going in fun, interesting, and GOOD directions lately, except Valiant. Harry Potter might be over, but Fantastic Beasts is killing it, Kingdom Hearts III will finally be coming out in January, The Walking Dead is better than it's been in 3 years, Joss Whedon is back to doing TV, and there's about to be new Buffy, Firefly, and Dr. Horrible comics. All of my favorite things are doing so awesome right now, but damn Valiant is just dropping the ball over and over again.

Andy Diggle says it's because of low sales and that the original plan was to produce at least 2 years worth of stories:
https://twitter.com/andydiggle/status/1 ... 46624?s=12" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Also confirmed that INCURSION was supposed to be a Shadowman story.

This is bulls***. Yea, Shadowman had *SQUEE* sales. Guess what other titles had *SQUEE* sales? F***ing everything! Valiant *cough* sorry, DMG should have thrown as much money at Shadowman as possible. Incursion should have stayed a Shadowman event, there should have been a huge push for a "fresh new start" for Shadowman #12 (after Incursion), and he probably could have made it another year without awful sales. DMG doesn't seem to understand that this stuff takes time. You can't just throw a book out there, hope it does well, and then when it doesn't, simply cancel it and throw another idea into the ring. Shadowman was supposed to be the next big thing, and it could have been. Hell, it already is the 2nd most popular book, after X-O (which I know isn't saying much).
Do they honestly expect the Eternal Warrior to be more of a draw than Shadowman?
Meanwhile, half of the "major announcements" we hear are of people getting hired or promoted.

Shadowman is my favorite Valiant (non-GK3) character, and I didn't even make it past issue 1. Neither of the main characters were likable, Jack and his powers were never explained or demonstrated, too much unexplained magic, no hook whatsoever.

Bro, I felt the same way, but that second arc was a beast. I'm not really into magic superheroes, but I'm so into this book right now.

[Manaf82]

Also regarding Eternal Warrior,anybody remember that story about Dave Bautista in an Eternal Warrior movie?

So Valiant is a movie company,so i think this is the reason. Don't get me wrong,my favorite character in VEI has been Gilad,but i don't think this is them doing him Justice. Also they are getting people who the new editor would be comfortable with. I am sorry,The new guys seem like nice people but they were hired for their malleability than vision. That is basic takeover strategy. So expect a marketing department suggested vision here onwards. Probably with artists and writers whom they don't have to pay much.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ryan]

DMG doesn't seem to understand that this stuff takes time. You can't just throw a book out there, hope it does well, and then when it doesn't, simply cancel it and throw another idea into the ring. Shadowman was supposed to be the next big thing, and it could have been. Hell, it already is the 2nd most popular book, after X-O (which I know isn't saying much).
Do they honestly expect the Eternal Warrior to be more of a draw than Shadowman?
Meanwhile, half of the "major announcements" we hear are of people getting hired or promoted.

I feel like Valiant has been doing that since the initial run of books started to peter out.

Shadowman is my favorite Valiant (non-GK3) character, and I didn't even make it past issue 1. Neither of the main characters were likable, Jack and his powers were never explained or demonstrated, too much unexplained magic, no hook whatsoever.

Bro, I felt the same way, but that second arc was a beast. I'm not really into magic superheroes, but I'm so into this book right now.

I don't doubt that, I think the creative team is solid and it seems like Diggle was really thinking about the long game for Shadowman, but for a small publisher in a tiny industry issue #1's are so important. You really have to knock people's socks off or at least set the hook somehow. Issue 1 shipped 33,000+ to stores, the people who bought those weren't all collectors, I'm sure there were a lot of fence-sitters who like Valiant or want to like Valiant but they also need to be convinced why they should care and keep paying $4 a pop. A small publisher can't afford lukewarm issue 1s, just like most tv shows can't afford a mediocre pilot.

[IMJ]

The problem is really rooted in the mentality of immediate gratification. People want the money NOW. And so the idea of hanging in there with a title until the readership grows is basically out the window because a relaunch with a new "#1" (which is just a joke nowadays) means boost sales and tons of variants to increase orders. We are in a comic book industry bubble again, but instead of eager 90's kids and Wizard magazine, we've got possibly the final generation of readers and speculation websites that never, ever talk about story content but instead talk about variant ratios or the sexiest cover of the month.

It's bad, bad news.

Even when the current spec bubble bursts, there will still be a smaller readership, but that readership will probably sustain back issue buying more than new publishing.

[TheeBaldMoose]

For the life of me, I can't understand why they don't try to get Harbinger back on track. Get the band back together and give them a run. Like in the Dysart days. It's a major pillar that's just dying on the vine.

Agree. Harbinger is maybe the most important book they have. One of the most recognizable Valiant titles by general comic fans. A team book about a diverse group of teens, one of the most accessible books if done right.

And with that said, LADOTH will have massive sales!

1) It's Dysart, and there are so many Valiant fans wrapped around his junk it's crazy!
2) While not the Renegades, it is a Psyot, and Psyot stuff sells here for Valiant because see #1
3) It safely survived the transition away from Dinesh, which means they KNOW it has the potential to be big
4) There will be certain fans that will buy multiple covers through the entire 6 issue (or is it 8) run. There will be some that buy every single cover, slab them, and go for the 100% on CGC.

I am sure there are more reasons to point to that will show great sales. Bottom line, a psyot book that stems from Dysart the Renegades will sell. It'll be interesting how captivated people are with Livewire.

[nonplayer]

For the life of me, I can't understand why they don't try to get Harbinger back on track. Get the band back together and give them a run. Like in the Dysart days. It's a major pillar that's just dying on the vine.

Agree. Harbinger is maybe the most important book they have. One of the most recognizable Valiant titles by general comic fans. A team book about a diverse group of teens, one of the most accessible books if done right.

And with that said, LADOTH will have massive sales!

1) It's Dysart, and there are so many Valiant fans wrapped around his junk it's crazy!
2) While not the Renegades, it is a Psyot, and Psyot stuff sells here for Valiant because see #1
3) It safely survived the transition away from Dinesh, which means they KNOW it has the potential to be big
4) There will be certain fans that will buy multiple covers through the entire 6 issue (or is it 8) run. There will be some that buy every single cover, slab them, and go for the 100% on CGC.

I am sure there are more reasons to point to that will show great sales. Bottom line, a psyot book that stems from Dysart the Renegades will sell. It'll be interesting how captivated people are with Livewire.

Ive read the ash can edition and its very good takes me right back to what I loved avout valiant. The action is dope and the storry feels like I never left.
I havent bought a variant is years now. I would have bought a 1/50 variant of this ifbit was available.
I personally dont care about livewire she is a terrorist and in my eyes redeaming her self time has passed.

[jeremycoe]

Savage Dragon is bananas. I mean, at that point it's totally a labor of love, I think.

I appreciate creators, no matter what sandbox they play in. Print run says nothing of quality. BPRD/Hellboy titles are even lower print than Valiant (the other main currently published universe I collect).

I read a quote from Erik Larsen not too long ago where he claims he still makes money publishing Savage Dragon and if he didn't he would end it. I'm sure it's much easier when you pretty much do everything on your own.

[paradise]

For the life of me, I can't understand why they don't try to get Harbinger back on track. Get the band back together and give them a run. Like in the Dysart days. It's a major pillar that's just dying on the vine.

Who said Josh would be down to do it? Everything I know tells me otherwise. Now Death of Harada is AMAZING, just read issue 1 and it's PURE GOLD, but that was a project Dinesh put together a couple of years ago, and has nothing with VEI editorial plans now.

On the Shadowman side, talked to cover artist Kieron Grant today (he's our reg. customer) and he did not know Shadowman is cancelled.

[paradise]

For the life of me, I can't understand why they don't try to get Harbinger back on track. Get the band back together and give them a run. Like in the Dysart days. It's a major pillar that's just dying on the vine.

Who said Josh would be down to do it? Everything I know tells me otherwise. Now Death of Harada is AMAZING, just read issue 1 and it's PURE GOLD, but that was a project Dinesh put together a couple of years ago, and has nothing with VEI editorial plans now.

On the Shadowman side, talked to cover artist Keron Grant today (he's our reg. customer) and he did not know Shadowman is cancelled.

[jmatt]

I didn't say Josh would write it... but somebody could.

[IMJ]

Savage Dragon is bananas. I mean, at that point it's totally a labor of love, I think.

I appreciate creators, no matter what sandbox they play in. Print run says nothing of quality. BPRD/Hellboy titles are even lower print than Valiant (the other main currently published universe I collect).

I read a quote from Erik Larsen not too long ago where he claims he still makes money publishing Savage Dragon and if he didn't he would end it. I'm sure it's much easier when you pretty much do everything on your own.

Not only that but isn't he Image Comics top rep? Maybe he somehow has cut a deal where he wraps the printing costs of Savage Dragon up into that of other image books somehow and the economies of scale are so good for him at the top that it's not really like it would be if he was charged to only run 1500 copies of a book without variants.