Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by DirtbagSailor »

dino wrote:600

450
:thumb:

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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by Juki »

I have to say that for the Harbinger Wars series I really love the cover art for the 1:20 variants. In my opinion the art for the 1:20s is so good that they could have easily been used for the 1:50 covers (which are all awesome as well). Choosing art for the variants must not have been easy.... especially for this series.

My favorite variant cover art for the HW series is:

1) HW issue #3 1:20 (Evans)
2) HW issue #4 1:20 (Doe)
3) HW issue #4 1:50 (Perger)
4) HW issue #2 1:20 (Crain)
5) HW issue #1 1:20 (Crain)
6) HW issue #3 1:50 (Zircher)
7) HW issue #2 1:50 (Perger)
8) HW issue #1 1:50 (Zircher)

All of the above cover art is exceptionally great and in my opinion is already "iconic."

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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by markie7235 »

Wow, so cool to see Dino weigh in and love that Valiant actually did these high end variants right. Makes me miss Dino more *sniff*

Though this info also changes quite a bit. Makes me wonder, is the order of *rarest* books we assume hold true, and all the numbers are higher on all books than thought. Or are we off on which ones are the rarest

Personally interested to know these books for total prints:

Harbinger #3 1:20 (Livewire)
Shadowman #5 1:125 (Mirage)
Eternity #1 1:40
Eternity #2 1:40
Eternity #3 1:40
Eternity #4 1:40

I'd speculate that some of these confirmations could impact price some of these books command, but many of the books on this list don't show up often as it is, so I guess not sure the numbers change anything too much (talking about books like Shadowman 5 1:125, Eternal Warrior 5 1:50, Savage 1 1:50, etc)

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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by Juki »

"Though this info also changes quite a bit. Makes me wonder, is the order of *rarest* books we assume hold true, and all the numbers are higher on all books than thought. Or are we off on which ones are the rarest."


Yeah Markie,
It will be interesting to see what are truly the "rarest" books. That list will be changing! I'm glad we have DBS to figure that out!

I think most people knew those Comichron numbers were giving low calculations for the Variant print runs. But that is all we had to go by to create a list of what may be the smallest print runs. Those numbers didn't take into account all the other sales out of the country and the extra prints for the artists, writers, damages, and just plain making sure that you actually had enough for that month. Valiant could have printed as many as they wanted and never disclosed the print numbers. To be honest, I personally thought the known "very low" print runs of Savage#1 (300) and Divinity #1 (350) were going to be exceptions (flukes). When Dino basically came out and stated that these printings of 300 to 350 were among the lowest for Valiant I had no reason to think there were any lower or even close. I thought most of these Variants would have a minimum run of 1000. Even that is super low. But it looks as though those strict standards were tightly used on all the Variants. I find that incredible.

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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by corey »

This is why we all still love you thx man

And what about the 1% gold A&A?

BLOODSHOT 25. variant
X-O MANOWAR 25 variants
A&A 25. variants

All the 25 variants is what I'm curious about

Ty again

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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by DirtbagSailor »

I few thoughts until we "120% know" what is what.
250 copies - Harbinger #25 (Kitson 1:50)
Based this, it may be "reasonable" to assume that the following books were in the same ball park as the Harbinger #25 (Kitson 1:50) 250 copy print run.
  • - Archer & Armstrong #25 (Walsh 1:50)
    - Armor Hunters #4 (Henry 1:50)
    - Unity #5 (Suayan 1:100 B&W)
    - Bloodshot #25 (Hitch 1:50)
525 copies - 4001 A.D. #4 (Sook 1:100)
Based this info, it may be "reasonable" to assume that the print runs for the previous three issues were higher, as is usually the case. This would indicate that (pure speculation of course) that 4001 A.D. #1 (Sook 1:100), 4001 A.D. #2 (Sook 1:100), and 4001 A.D. #3 (Sook 1:100) each would have had >525 copies printed. How significant the difference is up in the air of course.
400 copies - Wrath of Eternal Warrior #4 (Lafuente 1:50)
675 copies - A&A: Adventures of Archer & Armstrong #5 (Lafuente 1:50)
The first few issues of Wrath of Eternal Warrior and A&A: Adventures of Archer & Armstrong featured 1:50 B&W variants by Lafuente; as well as similar sales patterns (from what we could see).

A&A: Adventures of Archer & Armstrong #5 appears to have experienced a significant sales spike when compared to issues #2 through #4 of the same series. Based this info, it may be "reasonable" to assume that the print runs for the previous issues were lower, indicating that the A&A: Adventures of Archer & Armstrong #2 through #4 (Lafuente 1:50 variants) we equal to or less than 675 copies.

Wrath of Eternal Warrior #4 (Lafuente 1:50) having 400 copies might indicate that Eternal Warrior #1, #2, and #3 (Lafuente 1:50s) would have had slightly higher print runs than 400 (with #1 clearly having the highest of the four issues 1:50 variants).

This is all speculation until Dino provides new information, however, it is all somewhat reasonable.
Last edited by DirtbagSailor on Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:39:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by Juki »

DBS,
Dino commented earlier about all Savage issues 1-4 1:50 variants:
Savage issue #2 1:50 = 350 printed
Savage issue #3 1:50 = 450 printed

Also,
Harbinger Wars #1 1:50 = 800 printed
Harbinger Wars #3 1:50 = 500 printed

So, I guess we could assume HW issue #2 1:50 to be greater than 500 and less than 800 printed.
...and HW issue #4 1:50 to be <500 printed.

I wonder if the ratio for the 1:20s would hold true? That would put them at:

Harbinger Wars #1 1:20 at about 2,000 printed
Harbinger Wars #3 1:20 at about 1,250 printed.

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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by DirtbagSailor »

Juki wrote:Dino commented earlier about all Savage issues 1-4 1:50 variants:
Savage issue #2 1:50 = 350 printed
Savage issue #3 1:50 = 450 printed
Edited/corrected. :thumb:
Harbinger Wars #1 1:50 = 800 printed
Harbinger Wars #3 1:50 = 500 printed

So, I guess we could assume HW issue #2 1:50 to be greater than 500 and less than 800 printed.
...and HW issue #4 1:50 to be <500 printed.
That is a reasonable assumption until further info is provided.
I wonder if the ratio for the 1:20s would hold true? That would put them at:

Harbinger Wars #1 1:20 at about 2,000 printed
Harbinger Wars #3 1:20 at about 1,250 printed.
Perhaps, or perhaps not. We have attempted this math in the past, but it really boils down to what each retailer ordered, which we do not know.

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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by greg »

DirtbagSailor wrote:
525 copies - 4001 A.D. #4 (Sook 1:100)
Based this info, it may be "reasonable" to assume that the print runs for the previous three issues were higher, as is usually the case. This would indicate that (pure speculation of course) that 4001 A.D. #1 (Sook 1:100), 4001 A.D. #2 (Sook 1:100), and 4001 A.D. #3 (Sook 1:100) each would have had >525 copies printed. How significant the difference is up in the air of course.
It's my belief (without any proof) that the variants which form a single (interlocking) image are printed at the quantity of the top seller in that set. If you're supposed to form the interlocking image using #1 - #4, that would be impossible if there weren't just as many copies for #4 as there are for #1. So, I think interlocking image variants have different rules. It also explains why they don't seem to be as tough to find. That makes more sense than 4001 A.D. #4 selling anything close to 52,500. :thumb:

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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by DirtbagSailor »

greg wrote:
DirtbagSailor wrote:
525 copies - 4001 A.D. #4 (Sook 1:100)
Based this info, it may be "reasonable" to assume that the print runs for the previous three issues were higher, as is usually the case. This would indicate that (pure speculation of course) that 4001 A.D. #1 (Sook 1:100), 4001 A.D. #2 (Sook 1:100), and 4001 A.D. #3 (Sook 1:100) each would have had >525 copies printed. How significant the difference is up in the air of course.
It's my belief (without any proof) that the variants which form a single (interlocking) image are printed at the quantity of the top seller in that set. If you're supposed to form the interlocking image using #1 - #4, that would be impossible if there weren't just as many copies for #4 as there are for #1. So, I think interlocking image variants have different rules. It also explains why they don't seem to be as tough to find. That makes more sense than 4001 A.D. #4 selling anything close to 52,500. :thumb:
This is completely logical.

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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by Ramses818 »

This thread is so damn cool! Totally geeked out on Dino's comments.

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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by rentu »

Be great to know the number of Q2 #1 1:50, before the tiny speculator explosion around last December that was the last retail book I was down to and it's a been impossible to find.

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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by jmatt »

:popcorn: :applause:

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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by magnus20009 »

Any chance Dino might be willing to provide a few more print run numbers. :hope: It would be really interesting to learn :clap:

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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by Juki »

I also wonder about these key rare variants:
11) X-O #15 1:50 (first Capshaw)
Were there more errors or regular printings?

11) X-O #15 1:50 (first Capshaw) - 400 copies
Were there more errors or regular printings? "The errors were supposed to all have been caught and destroyed before they went out to stores. Since copies have only been found from Midtown Comics I would wager the Midtown shipment somehow pulled variants from the pile of books that were scheduled to be destroyed. Should be far fewer errors than regular printings."

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am wondering about Dineish's above comment about the X-O #15 1:50 variant print run involving an error with some of the books:

Do you think that 400 copies of this comic were printed in total? Valiant discovered an error before they were shipped to comic stores. The error books were supposed to be destroyed. Somehow Midtown's error books were not destroyed but the other error comics which were going to be sent to other comic shops were destroyed. All destroyed error books were replaced by Valiant's surplus inventory of this book before they were sent out to the other comic book stores.

If I am understanding this correctly.....There never was a "second printing" of this comic to replace the errored comics. Only a small percentage of the 400 comics had the error and needed to be replaced. I am assuming surplus inventory at Valiant replaced the error comic to comic stores. For example, 250 issues were ordered by comic shops. 150 issues were Valiant surplus and used to replace destroyed comics before sending out correct versions.

If what I have written above seems correct.... Wouldn't that mean that there are less than 400 issues of this comic in existence?

400 total #Issues printed (300+ correct version plus whatever the number of error version)
(Minus -) # destroyed error issues
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
= Remaining existing issues (correct + Midtown errors not destroyed). This # is < 400 still remaining.


Does anyone know how many errors were destroyed?... I wonder just how rare even the correct version is? With the first appearance of Capshaw could this be a really significant book?

On the CGC registry I see 7 graded books with green labels (5 CGC 9.8s, 1 CGC 9.6, and 1 CGC 9.4). Therefore, there are probably 7 error X-O #15 1:50 error books which have been graded. I have seen a few sales of raw error books. So, that makes a total of about 10 errors that I have seen in existence that were not destroyed.

Does anybody know about how many errors were destroyed? 20? 30? 40? More? That 400 print run could be a lot less.

Does anyone know the # of Midtown error comics that still exist? I would assume it is however many they ordered?

I don't know how many error comics were destroyed. I also don't know how may Midtown error comics were not destroyed. As an example I will throw out a number of 50 error comics being destroyed and 10 Midtown error comics still in existence. In this example, that would leave 340 correct versions in existence, 10 error versions in existence, with 50 destroyed error comics gone from existence (all totaling the 400 issue print run). Of course, the larger the number is for the destroyed comics/ the smaller the number is of correct versions remaining....and the rarer this book actually is.

In addition...the larger the # of error books that exist...the smaller the number (and rarer) the remaining # of correct version exists.

Thoughts or comments? Insights?

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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by greg »

If I had to guess, and if the number of 400 is correct for X-O Manowar #15 1:50, then I would say about 250 correct copies and 150 error copies.

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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by Juki »

greg wrote:If I had to guess, and if the number of 400 is correct for X-O Manowar #15 1:50, then I would say about 250 correct copies and 150 error copies.

That is a larger number of error comics than I would have guessed (I would have guessed less than 100). So, I wonder how many were actually destroyed? Or, is there a larger number of error comics still around today (could the error comics have not been destroyed)?
Last edited by Juki on Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:20:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by nycjadie »

I think there might be less copies, outside of Valiant employees.

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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by greg »

Juki wrote:
greg wrote:If I had to guess, and if the number of 400 is correct for X-O Manowar #15 1:50, then I would say about 250 correct copies and 150 error copies.
That is a larger number of error comics than I would have guessed (I would have guessed less than 100). So, I wonder how many were actually destroyed? Or, is there a larger number of error comics still around today?
I am generally convinced that we need to consider that no destruction happened until we have someone who can state exactly how many of anything were destroyed. Wanting to believe that things are extremely rare is a good way to be highly disappointed when more pop up in the future.

The ratio of the ones CGC graded so far is 2 corrected for every 1 error (14 corrected, 7 error).

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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by Juki »

greg wrote:
Juki wrote:
greg wrote:If I had to guess, and if the number of 400 is correct for X-O Manowar #15 1:50, then I would say about 250 correct copies and 150 error copies.
That is a larger number of error comics than I would have guessed (I would have guessed less than 100). So, I wonder how many were actually destroyed? Or, is there a larger number of error comics still around today?
I am generally convinced that we need to consider that no destruction happened until we have someone who can state exactly how many of anything were destroyed. Wanting to believe that things are extremely rare is a good way to be highly disappointed when more pop up in the future.

The ratio of the ones CGC graded so far is 2 corrected for every 1 error (14 corrected, 7 error).

In Dinesh's comment he explains that only the "Midtown error comic" has been seen to exist. This seems to imply that the other error comics might be gone. However, I don't understand how he knows that only the "Midtown shipment " of errors were removed and saved?

For that matter, I don't know how you would tell that a comic was set to be in the "Midtown shipment " just by looking at it (after the fact). But, Dineish seems to know somewhat about the situation. They could have saved all the errors. That's why I was bringing it up for discussion.

In the scenario that none of the comics were destroyed.... It would still be interesting to know what the ratio is of correct/error comics.

If there were comics destroyed...It would still be interesting to know what is left and the ratio of correct/errors that are left.

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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by Juki »

A cool video has been posted on comicbook.com that shows Diesel and Dineish talking about the Bloodshot movie and the Bloodshot items donated to the Paul Walker foundation.

In the the video (I’m not sure how to post a link... just Google “Bloodshot Movie News” and it is about the 4th item that comes up).... Dinesh says that there are “200 Brushed Metal Bloodshot Salvation #1 Variant comics in existence”

So, we now know there are 200 Brushed Metal Bloodshots.

So, I wonder if that number will hold true for the rest of the brushed metal 1:250s and how the metal X-O 1:500 will compare.

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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by DirtbagSailor »

:thumb:

200 copies - Bloodshot Salvation #1 (Suayan Brushed Metal 1:250)
250 copies - Harbinger #25 (Kitson 1:50)
275 copies - Rapture #4 (Suayan 1:50)
275 copies - Savage #4 (LaRosa 1:50)
300 copies - Savage #1 (LaRosa 1:50)
350 copies - Imperium #1 (Braithwaite 1:40)
350 copies - Divinity #1 (LaRosa 1:40)
350 copies - Savage #2 (LaRosa 1:50)
400 copies - Shadowman #13 (Davis 1:50)
400 copies - Eternal Warrior #5 (Mack 1:50)
400 copies - X-O Manowar #15 (Kotaki 1:50)
------------ X-O Manowar #15 (Kotaki 1:50 Error) = small percentage of the 400 copies.
400 copies - Wrath of Eternal Warrior #4 (Lafuente 1:50)
450 copies - Savage #3 (LaRosa 1:50)
450 copies - Britannia #3 (Johnson 1:50)
500 copies - Harbinger Wars #3 (Zircher 1:50)
525 copies - 4001 A.D. (Sook 1:100)
600 copies - Britannia #2 (Johnson 1:50)
675 copies - A&A: Adventures of Archer & Armstrong #5 (Lafuente 1:50)
800 copies - Harbinger Wars #1 (Zircher 1:50)
2,800 copies - Ninjak 2015 #1 (Sauvage cover D)

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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by magnus20009 »

Juki wrote:A cool video has been posted on comicbook.com that shows Diesel and Dineish talking about the Bloodshot movie and the Bloodshot items donated to the Paul Walker foundation.

In the the video (I’m not sure how to post a link... just Google “Bloodshot Movie News” and it is about the 4th item that comes up).... Dinesh says that there are “200 Brushed Metal Bloodshot Salvation #1 Variant comics in existence”

So, we now know there are 200 Brushed Metal Bloodshots.

So, I wonder if that number will hold true for the rest of the brushed metal 1:250s and how the metal X-O 1:500 will compare.

Does anyone know what the print run of Bloodshot Salvation 1 roughly was? If there are 200 copies of the 1:250 brushed metal cover and each retailer ordered exactly in multiples of 250 that would mean the print run was 50,000 books which sounds high, not to mention many places would order less than 250 copies. Could the real ratio be less than 1:250? :?

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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by syzhang28 »

magnus20009 wrote:
Juki wrote:A cool video has been posted on comicbook.com that shows Diesel and Dineish talking about the Bloodshot movie and the Bloodshot items donated to the Paul Walker foundation.

In the the video (I’m not sure how to post a link... just Google “Bloodshot Movie News” and it is about the 4th item that comes up).... Dinesh says that there are “200 Brushed Metal Bloodshot Salvation #1 Variant comics in existence”

So, we now know there are 200 Brushed Metal Bloodshots.

So, I wonder if that number will hold true for the rest of the brushed metal 1:250s and how the metal X-O 1:500 will compare.

Does anyone know what the print run of Bloodshot Salvation 1 roughly was? If there are 200 copies of the 1:250 brushed metal cover and each retailer ordered exactly in multiples of 250 that would mean the print run was 50,000 books which sounds high, not to mention many places would order less than 250 copies. Could the real ratio be less than 1:250? :?
If I remember correctly Bloodshot (2012) 1 sold 35,000 and both Reborn 1 and Salvation 1 sold 50,000 copies so I think your math is right.

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Re: Top 100 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? Maybe...

Post by magnus20009 »

I do not have access to the data but how hard would it be using the same methodology to add in the books since January 2016 to date?

With some of the lower print runs surely some of the books in the 2 and a half years would appear on the list. It would be really interesting to see and know the relative scarcity of some issues.


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