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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:17:15 pm 
innerSPACE does whatever I tell them
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:21:13 pm 
innerSPACE does whatever I tell them
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There was a panel [sandwiched between two panels of Aric swimming with whales in the ocean] where we see a number of globes in space that looked like manowar armor spheres, with one streak that could have been a shooting star or could have been Aric streaking through space. There was no dialogue on this page, & it seemed out of context, being placed between the panels of him in the ocean on earth.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? Think we might see some additional manowars come to earth in the near future, if they perhaps follow him? If that was him?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:28:40 pm 
Just jumpin' through time arcs, that's all.
Just jumpin' through time arcs, that's all.

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grendeljd wrote:
There was a panel [sandwiched between two panels of Aric swimming with whales in the ocean] where we see a number of globes in space that looked like manowar armor spheres, with one streak that could have been a shooting star or could have been Aric streaking through space. There was no dialogue on this page, & it seemed out of context, being placed between the panels of him in the ocean on earth.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? Think we might see some additional manowars come to earth in the near future, if they perhaps follow him? If that was him?

I noticed that and was confused

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:15:02 am 
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grendeljd wrote:
There was a panel [sandwiched between two panels of Aric swimming with whales in the ocean] where we see a number of globes in space that looked like manowar armor spheres, with one streak that could have been a shooting star or could have been Aric streaking through space. There was no dialogue on this page, & it seemed out of context, being placed between the panels of him in the ocean on earth.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? Think we might see some additional manowars come to earth in the near future, if they perhaps follow him? If that was him?


nonplayer wrote:
I noticed that and was confused


According to the pre-order addition, that was Baz-L and her Bot people. :thumb:

That underwater sequence was dope, Aric removing the Armor from his fingers so he could actually feel the water was a nice touch... :thumb:

The whole situation with Saana and the lost of their son was really sad... :cry:

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:49:13 am 
Personal shoe-shopper for Atom!
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Beautiful art. Beautiful return issue. I'm rather mad about the whole thing with Saana though. I don't think they should have just thrown the relationship away, which is done now. Tends to happen a lot in comics, I notice. It would be refreshing to allow a relationship to flourish for once. Also would have made for a nice redemption personal arc for them getting back together.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 1:34:39 am 
Is it Dee-no or Die-no? Dunno.
Is it Dee-no or Die-no? Dunno.
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otomo wrote:
Beautiful art. Beautiful return issue. I'm rather mad about the whole thing with Saana though. I don't think they should have just thrown the relationship away, which is done now. Tends to happen a lot in comics, I notice. It would be refreshing to allow a relationship to flourish for once. Also would have made for a nice redemption personal arc for them getting back together.

What makes you think it's done now? Aric is married to her and has a kid in 'Fall of.'


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:09:34 am 
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Not sure what to make of this issue! The scenes where they find out the child’s illness and Aric leaving earth was different to how it was conveyed in issue 13? :? Didn’t like the Volo plot twist, would have liked him to rebuild his relationship with Saana. That seemed brutal!

Also the scenes in Rome when he was a kid, who was the fella with the brown hair and moustache? Please don’t tell me it was supposed to be Aric’s dad as has already been shown in Venditti’s run and he looks nothing like that? :o

The art was odd too. Very good in places but then very ‘flat’ and odd looking against the photoshopped panels (which I’m not a fan of).

Maybe need to re-read, first read I wasn’t a fan of.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:49:03 pm 
innerSPACE does whatever I tell them
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TheFerg714 wrote:
otomo wrote:
Beautiful art. Beautiful return issue. I'm rather mad about the whole thing with Saana though. I don't think they should have just thrown the relationship away, which is done now. Tends to happen a lot in comics, I notice. It would be refreshing to allow a relationship to flourish for once. Also would have made for a nice redemption personal arc for them getting back together.

What makes you think it's done now? Aric is married to her and has a kid in 'Fall of.'


I'm hopeful that the 'Fall Of' stories are still somewhat canon, and I agree that theres no saying the relationship between Aric & Saana can't eventually steer back to flow into that future plotline.

But I wasn't happy to read this whole new randomly injected idea that they had a kid that died before he left earth, that they couldn't do anything about it when they found out [Shanhara couldn't at least be able to assess &/or confirm if it was the cause of the leukemia?], that Saana would turn on Aric like that... and coming back to find that Saana has had a kid with Volo? Its reads like an arbitrary, forced plot point that craps on what went before. I'm not a fan of this whole development.

How old was that kid they had, and when the hell did they have time to have him in the first place? I have to go back to re-read various Valiant issues from a couple years back when Aric first left earth, but it seems to me that up to that point in his story, there was absolutely no mention of Saana even being pregnant, let alone having a child that was old enough as he appears to be in the flashbacks from the recent issues of XO. I could be wrong &/or mis-remembering that though.

The timeline works in terms of how long he has been gone from earth & returned from Gorin - thats plenty of time for Saana to have moved on and started a relationship with Volo & had another baby... but what a crappy & miserable story element to add to her character. I can't begin to imagine the fallout that might occur over the loss of a child between real parents, all the guilt & blame etc. that could tear people apart over something like that... but here it feels super forced & hollow. It just doesn't fit. Big thumbs down for me.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:29:12 pm 
Completely ruined the ending of Last Jedi: The Force Reloaded of the Green Gables 8 -- This Time, It's Really Really Personal (In Space).
Completely ruined the ending of Last Jedi: The Force Reloaded of the Green Gables 8 -- This Time, It's Really Really Personal (In Space).

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TheFerg714 wrote:
otomo wrote:
Beautiful art. Beautiful return issue. I'm rather mad about the whole thing with Saana though. I don't think they should have just thrown the relationship away, which is done now. Tends to happen a lot in comics, I notice. It would be refreshing to allow a relationship to flourish for once. Also would have made for a nice redemption personal arc for them getting back together.

What makes you think it's done now? Aric is married to her and has a kid in 'Fall of.'


Pretty much this. There's also the fact that Saana's character wouldn't be as important moving forward if she was just Aric's ex-wife. This is like the episode of Family Guy where Brian married Lois when the family thought Peter was dead. The dead baby makes things a lot more tragic though. Aric, Saana, and Volo are going to have one complicated love triangle. Now we know Jhukka has an older half-brother.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:22:31 pm 
Mmm, I was drooling over Cooshie tonight.
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I thought it was a great issue. I'm not hung up on continuity gaps, like not having seen Saana pregnant, etc. It's comics. I'm content with the idea that there are some things we don't see... until we see them.

I will leave the science quibbles to Chiclo; there were a few of them in this issue that I won't get into.

Not sure I'm buying the Baz-L explanation for that panel, even if that's what they stated in the Pre-Order edition. It certainly didn't look like Gin-Gr's race, which we've seen before in space. And if so, the placement of it in the book makes little sense.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:15:44 am 
innerSPACE does whatever I tell them
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jmatt wrote:
I'm not hung up on continuity gaps, like not having seen Saana pregnant, etc. It's comics. I'm content with the idea that there are some things we don't see... until we see them.


This is not intended as a personal stab at your opinion at all good sir, but for me personally, if something doesn't add up in a comic story and I have to resort to the "it's comics" excuse to explain/forgive it, then it's a fail. Just because the storytelling medium is in a comic book, doesn't mean it's excusable to make bad storytelling decisions.

I'm also okay with the idea of not having everything spelled out or shown to me until a good moment for a big reveal comes along - that can be a powerful storytelling tool when used effectively. In this case, I just think that having the entire period of time when they had that child and having him pass away all occur off panel doesn't fit into the existing timeline of Aric. It's too much of a stretch for me, which makes it feel forced and thus lacks any of the intended impact.

jmatt wrote:
Not sure I'm buying the Baz-L explanation for that panel, even if that's what they stated in the Pre-Order edition. It certainly didn't look like Gin-Gr's race, which we've seen before in space. And if so, the placement of it in the book makes little sense.


I've been thinking about this one a little more since finding out that it was intended to be Baz-L/Gin-Gr's race. Wasn't that species portrayed as kind of a wandering herd of Goliath sentient machines with close familial connections in space, back around the Armor Hunter story? If that is accurate, then I can see the correlation with a wandering herd of Goliath intelligent mammals with close familial connections in the ocean. There's definitely a thematic connection there, and Aric probably would have been thinking of it if he had seen those machines in space on his way home (maybe he sent Baz-L to his home herd there?)... but the art was kind of unclear, and it still could have used a little narrative writing to add some clarification, to prevent it from seeming to be so random & disconnected.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:07:34 am 
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grendeljd wrote:

jmatt wrote:
Not sure I'm buying the Baz-L explanation for that panel, even if that's what they stated in the Pre-Order edition. It certainly didn't look like Gin-Gr's race, which we've seen before in space. And if so, the placement of it in the book makes little sense.


I've been thinking about this one a little more since finding out that it was intended to be Baz-L/Gin-Gr's race. Wasn't that species portrayed as kind of a wandering herd of Goliath sentient machines with close familial connections in space, back around the Armor Hunter story? If that is accurate, then I can see the correlation with a wandering herd of Goliath intelligent mammals with close familial connections in the ocean. There's definitely a thematic connection there, and Aric probably would have been thinking of it if he had seen those machines in space on his way home (maybe he sent Baz-L to his home herd there?)... but the art was kind of unclear, and it still could have used a little narrative writing to add some clarification, to prevent it from seeming to be so random & disconnected.


Yeah tha panel was confusing for 2 reasons. Firstly the colour of them matched the blue/yellow XO colours which is what made me think it was more XO armours. Secondly, if it was GinGrs herd then where were all the bodies? I know Baz L was detached from its body but why the others?

I have the pre order edition where it says it’s GinGrs race...but could it be a fake out? :hm:


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:35:39 am 
innerSPACE does whatever I tell them
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Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
grendeljd wrote:

jmatt wrote:
Not sure I'm buying the Baz-L explanation for that panel, even if that's what they stated in the Pre-Order edition. It certainly didn't look like Gin-Gr's race, which we've seen before in space. And if so, the placement of it in the book makes little sense.


I've been thinking about this one a little more since finding out that it was intended to be Baz-L/Gin-Gr's race. Wasn't that species portrayed as kind of a wandering herd of Goliath sentient machines with close familial connections in space, back around the Armor Hunter story? If that is accurate, then I can see the correlation with a wandering herd of Goliath intelligent mammals with close familial connections in the ocean. There's definitely a thematic connection there, and Aric probably would have been thinking of it if he had seen those machines in space on his way home (maybe he sent Baz-L to his home herd there?)... but the art was kind of unclear, and it still could have used a little narrative writing to add some clarification, to prevent it from seeming to be so random & disconnected.


Yeah tha panel was confusing for 2 reasons. Firstly the colour of them matched the blue/yellow XO colours which is what made me think it was more XO armours. Secondly, if it was GinGrs herd then where were all the bodies? I know Baz L was detached from its body but why the others?

I have the pre order edition where it says it’s GinGrs race...but could it be a fake out? :hm:


Yes - the lack of bodies for all those heads doesn't make any sense to me either. That was supposed to be something that happened to Baz-L alone, I thought. And I felt the same way about the colouring - they are coloured like XO's!

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:00:43 pm 
Mmm, I was drooling over Cooshie tonight.
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grendeljd wrote:
...doesn't mean it's excusable to make bad storytelling decisions....In this case, I just think that having the entire period of time when they had that child and having him pass away all occur off panel doesn't fit into the existing timeline of Aric. It's too much of a stretch for me, which makes it feel forced and thus lacks any of the intended impact.


I'll grant you that. As a 'thing' left unseen, Aric having a first son with Saana is about as huge as it gets.

Okay, you talked me into it. It's an irresponsible editorial lapse in continuity. It's just too much to ask of a regular (as opposed to casual or new) reader of the title.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:03:42 pm 
Mmm, I was drooling over Cooshie tonight.
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grendeljd wrote:
Yes - the lack of bodies for all those heads doesn't make any sense to me either. That was supposed to be something that happened to Baz-L alone, I thought. And I felt the same way about the colouring - they are coloured like XO's!


Exactly. When we've seen the 'herd' wandering space before, they had bodies.

To be honest, when I first saw them, I thought they might be the Sentient Cities that were mentioned way back. It was hard to get a sense of scale in that panel.


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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 2:44:45 pm 
H.A.R.D.E.R. Corps, with Extra Resistance
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GIN-GR's entire family/race was demolished by asteroids and GIN-GR was taken care of and reassembled by Control (see Unity).

It's also be possible the Bounty Hunters enslaved BAZ-L's entire herd, destroying all of their bodies.

Whatever it is, it is nice to see BAZ-L getting back to her family.


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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 10:44:40 pm 
innerSPACE does whatever I tell them
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Sunlight on Snow wrote:
GIN-GR's entire family/race was demolished by asteroids and GIN-GR was taken care of and reassembled by Control (see Unity).

It's also be possible the Bounty Hunters enslaved BAZ-L's entire herd, destroying all of their bodies.

Whatever it is, it is nice to see BAZ-L getting back to her family.


I had forgotten the details around GIN-GR's herd, thanks for the reminder!

And that's an interesting thought on BAZ-L's herd/family... if this were a Marvel comic I'd say that earns you a no-prize! :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 10:46:53 pm 
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jmatt wrote:
grendeljd wrote:
Yes - the lack of bodies for all those heads doesn't make any sense to me either. That was supposed to be something that happened to Baz-L alone, I thought. And I felt the same way about the colouring - they are coloured like XO's!


Exactly. When we've seen the 'herd' wandering space before, they had bodies.

To be honest, when I first saw them, I thought they might be the Sentient Cities that were mentioned way back. It was hard to get a sense of scale in that panel.

Now that there is definitely in Crazy Theory territory... :thumb:

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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 12:43:49 am 
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Sunlight on Snow wrote:
GIN-GR's entire family/race was demolished by asteroids and GIN-GR was taken care of and reassembled by Control (see Unity).


+1

Quote:
It's also be possible the Bounty Hunters enslaved BAZ-L's entire herd, destroying all of their bodies.


+2

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Whatever it is, it is nice to see BAZ-L getting back to her family.


+3

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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 8:11:40 pm 
Mmm, I was drooling over Cooshie tonight.
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grendeljd wrote:
Now that there is definitely in Crazy Theory territory... :thumb:


Is it? Tell me this doesn't look like the objects Aric was traveling passed...

Image

Now, we know X-O is heading back to Earth where HW2 is about to begin. When we first heard of the Sentient Cities back in AA #12, they were teased along with something else.

The Fourth Harbinger War.

Now, chronologically speaking, I can't explain how he might be encountering them in this time period but the resemblance is uncanny.


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 8:37:39 pm 
Mmm, I was drooling over Cooshie tonight.
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I just looked back at the recent issue. To gain speed, Aric flies through the heart of a collapsing star, it is depicted as a black hole or perhaps a neutron star... as he approaches the event horizon he seems to stretch out. Time and space are going wobbly.

He exits the other side. Shanhara puts him into cryo-genic sleep. Black panel. Next we see him, Shanhara is telling him they have arrived at Earth.

While he's playing with the whales, we see the panel in question. It's seemingly out of place for the sequence, and there's no context for it.

Anything could have transpired in that black panel.


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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 8:11:11 pm 
Mmm, I was drooling over Cooshie tonight.
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The more I look at those pages, the more suspicious I become. As they arrive at Earth, Shanhara awakens Aric. It is not necessarily the same "sleep" from the page before.

Aric is a little disoriented and starts by asking "when are we?" with an image of ancient Dacia intermixed in the panels. Why would he think he might have gone back in time? What is that Dacian child (appears to be young Aric) looking at up in the sky?

Shanhara says he was last there 18 months ago. Now, if some timey-wimey stuff had gone on, that statement could still be true even if he did have some kind of interlude during the black panel. Perhaps she means it's 18 calendar months after he left Earth following the death of his son.

Hypothetical scenario: They exit the gravity well of the star. Shanhara, who is omniscient since the encounter with the Torment and may know something of the future, puts him to sleep. For like, say, 2,000 years... or maybe 10,000, who knows? He awakens and has some kind of adventure, possibly involving the Sentient Cities and the Fourth Harbinger War.

Ivar is involved and at the end, provides a time-arc for Aric to return to the present timeline. They emerge but are still far from Earth. Shanhara puts him back to sleep. She knows that he should not have knowledge of the future and wipes the memory of it. Aric awakens and we see the 'return to Earth' sequence as presented here.

Okay, lots of speculation there. But if you consider it, there's a lot of unexplained panels and confusion going on here.

While I think it's unrelated, we also see another first here. Aric and Shanhara are floating in the ocean and he asks why are they doing this. Since when does Shanhara take actions on her own? It's like he's just along for the ride for that moment. That's new.


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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 8:35:07 pm 
Mmm, I was drooling over Cooshie tonight.
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Alright, gonna go off the deep end here:

Aric lost his son. That's a pretty big deal and many of us are wondering why it was handled as it was.

There's some flashback sequences of him as a child in Rome. Of aaaaaaall of the things Matt Kindt could choose to show us about Aric as a young boy in Rome, he chooses to have the character witness a discarded infant being rescued by someone looking for a slave. Curious.

Could it be that the adventure I spoke of is a story involving Aric going back in time, scooping up his infant son, delivering him (for some reason) back to ancient Rome? Can it be that these flashback panels are a memory of him, as a young boy, witnessing the rescue of his future child without knowing it?

Why would Kindt show us this? Why is Aric having a frolic with a whale and its offspring?

I know it sounds nuts but something is going on in this issue.


Last edited by jmatt on Sat May 05, 2018 8:42:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 8:37:07 pm 
The admin around here must be getting old and soft.
The admin around here must be getting old and soft.
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Now this is the kind of speculation that makes Valiant fans awesome. :thumb:


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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 9:06:50 pm 
Mmm, I was drooling over Cooshie tonight.
Mmm, I was drooling over Cooshie tonight.
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greg wrote:
Now this is the kind of speculation that makes Valiant fans awesome. :thumb:


We're gonna know for sure when he next sees Saana and she says something like "Aric junior? You know he died shortly after his birth. What's wrong with you? Don't you remember?"

If it pans out like this (and it's a stretch) Shanhara will have made up for the fact that she was responsible, even if indirectly, for his death. Then they can proceed without the animosity.

And now that I think about it, in the ocean panels, she's talking about having learned how to deal with her second-hand radiation problem. The very thing that killed Aric junior.

Wow, now I'm even starting to believe it.


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