Valiant variants AREN'T out there (?)

[greg]

(starting from a different topic)

Someone here posted an interview with Dinesh from a con towards the end of 2017. What got MY attention was the question to Dinesh about variants and how that worked. For the 1st time I have ever seen, DINESH VERIFIED that VEI destroys (except a few copies) the variants that are not met by their requirements.

This is HUGE!

November 21, 2017 - John DeMayo posted the article where he talked to Dinesh: https://comicbookinvest.com/2017/11/21/ ... -universe/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

...[ratio variant] copies would be printed and available to stores who met the requirement. After the release, Diamond and Valiant would hold the excess copies to cover damages, mostly handled through Diamond but sometimes handled directly through Valiant in some cases. Once a few months have passed and no copies are needed for replacements, the remaining copies are destroyed minus a few, maybe a copy or two, which are kept vaulted by Valiant.

It's my guess, admittedly without much proof, that pretty much ANY 2013-2016 Valiant "highest ratio" variant which wasn't necessarily a "big deal" when it came out might be gone now. Not gone completely, but "gone enough" that even a dozen people suddenly deciding they need a copy might be out of luck. Combining the fact that Valiant books which weren't a "big deal" have basically moved into private collections (most of which will never show up on the open market) with the fact that VEI was destroying unclaimed ratio variants (according to the article above), and you get situations like the Archer & Armstrong The One Percent #1 variant (the "gold" one that isn't a real gold variant... 1:30 or 1:20 depending upon which official reference you use) being impossible to find today even though it wasn't ever selling for much more than $15.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/323042181466" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think that books like the One Percent "gold", the #25 variants (A&A, Bloodshot, Harbinger) and even random "common" books like later Rai variants, later Imperium variants, later Ivar variants, as long as they were the "highest ratio" for the issue could be "effectively gone" the moment the last copies disappear from Ebay. There may be lower-printed books, such as the most "famous" Valiant variants like Divinity #1 1:40 or Savage #1 1:40 or the official gold variants, but I think those books might actually be easier to find because they were a "big deal" immediately. They didn't get overlooked, they didn't end up as "unloved", and they aren't "anonymous" in collections.

I also think that the retailer-exclusives (not the ratio variants, the comic shop exclusives that were all-copies-for-the-same-retailer) might be lower printed, but they don't get "spread out" very well. The copies all start at one spot, the retailer who ordered them, and they are basically still concentrated in that same spot (geographically nearby, plus whoever is in the mail-order customer base). There's a ridiculous difference between 1,000 copies of a book being spread out across the country into collections without any rhyme or reason and 500 copies being concentrated at a specific comic shop where it would probably be possible for 50 copies to appear immediately for sale at any moment for decades (as we should always assume with the comic shop exclusives). Throw in the knowledge that some of those 1,000 copies got destroyed and the print run is much less important than the inability to find them in the current and future market.

Additionally, the comic shop exclusives have a "personalization aspect" which seems like having "to Steve" written on a comic when your name isn't Steve. "The Comic Shop of Big City Elsewhere" is somewhere I've never been... so I have as much desire to have that name/logo printed on my comic as having "to Steve". It's less weird when a comic shop doesn't put their logo on the book, but as long as it was always "their exclusive" it is always a souvenir from a place I haven't been. Seems weird to universally want one in the same way that the Valiant ratio variants were universally available to all comic shops and collectors through Diamond.

I guess what I'm saying/asking is whether we're ready to admit/realize/propose/dispute that there are probably 2013-2016 Valiant variants that are now MUCH rarer (in the market) than the variants we thought were "rarest". They didn't start that way, but they may be that way now (and forever)... through being "mostly anonymous" upon release, followed by "privately held" for most copies, then "some destroyed" for the leftovers. I don't think the 2012 books were "mostly anonymous" since they were all followed closely, and I doubt if the 2017 leftover books have been destroyed yet (or if they still do that).

Those three things (anonymous upon release, privately-held, destroyed) may be a permanent problem for current and future Valiant 2013-2016 collectors who don't already have them.

[battlepark]

The problem is, everytime some big book was selling for a ton in Dec and Jan (like Eternal Warrior #5) he would make comments.
"why is this going for so much"
and when people would say it is really rare, he would say "no there are lots of them made"
Almost as if he was saying there were more out there than the ratio would say.

[DirtbagSailor]

Greg, at the EXACT same time you were writing this post, I posted the following in a number of Google+ communities:

Valiant and the HTF Variants

We see discussions WRT Valiant Variants in the secondary market -- e.g. Harbinger #3 (1:20); Eternity #1 (1:40), and so on.

Some we know the estimated QTY in circulation -- e.g. Divinity #1 (1:40) that has a CONFIRMED <350 print run; Savage #1 (1:50) that has a CONFIRMED print run that is LESS THAN Divinity #1 (1:40), etc.

Others we can on give a "best guess" due to limited information.

Greg Holland, who runs Valiant Fans (dot) com and GPA for CGC Comics stated that -- unless stated otherwise or specifically, as is the case with Divinity #1 (1:40), Savage #1 (1:40), and the Brushes Metal Variants -- that ALL Valiant Variants have a minimum "INITIAL" print run of 400 copies.

As indicated in John Demayo's CBSI article in November of 2017 where he spoke with (at the time) Valiant CEO Dinesh Shamdasani;

"...After the release, Diamond and Valiant would hold the excess copies to cover damages, mostly handled through Diamond but sometimes handled directly through Valiant in some cases. Once a few months have passed and no copies are needed for replacements, the remaining copies are destroyed minus a few, maybe a copy or two, which are kept vaulted by Valiant..."

So what this means is that Variants such as -- for example -- Unity #5 (1:100), Shadowman #13 (1:50), and Britannia #2 (1:50) may have all had 400 copies printed "INITIALLY"; however as time passed the excess would have been destroyed.

This is why you RARELY see Unity #5 (1:100) for sale, or Shadowman #5 (1:125 Line Variant) for sale, etc.

It is because there ARE NOT many copies in the wild at all, and never will be. While this is certainly not the case will all Valiant Variants, it 100% appears to be the case with many books that were NOT heavily promoted.

I am personally attempting to complete a perfect CGC 9.8+ set for a few modern Valiant titles and can say that it is an absolute beast of a goal to undertake! Some Valiant Variants DO NOT yet exist in 9.8+ condition, and IF they are found and/or made available, regardless of significance, there is a decent ROI to be made. We have already seen this on a number of seemingly impossible to find Variants.

[greg]

I don't want to imply that there "never will be" a surprise quantity for a few of these variants. Even the article which states that copies are destroyed stated that some copies are put back for VEI before any destruction. How many are saved? "A copy or two" seems like shorthand for "a few as far as publishers are concerned"... so is that 2, 20, or 200? Publishers live in the world of ten thousands, so I'd be surprised if it's a literal one or two. If it's 20 copies saved, then a surprise of 10 copies coming to market could easily happen, but if it's 200, the market could be saturated at any time for any variant.

I'm thinking that the "sweet spot" looking back for the (now) toughest variants is probably the 1:20 or 1:25 variants for a middle or late issue (not a #1 or low issue number) for a title that was selling under 8,000 (in the Comichron.com estimates) at the time. There would have been fewer than 400 of the variant earned (by the calculation) and even if they originally printed 1,000 copies, there would be no good reason for VEI to save the extras because there's nothing otherwise special about a 1:20 for a #9 variant (or #17 or #32, etc.). It doesn't seem like those kinds of books would be a future priority for VEI if they weren't when they were released, so if anything got destroyed in greater numbers, I'm guessing it would be those.

The 1:40 (and above) were "automatically special" because of their ratios, and it's likely that more collectors would go (went) after a 1:40, even if it was a #9 or a #17, and possibly more likely that VEI would save them, just because of the 1:40 ratio. I'm not surprised that the Shadowman #5 1:125 (linewide variant) is hard to find but I would guess that the Shadowman #5 1:25 variant is equally hard to find at this point. The 1:25 was the ratio for a Shadowman #5 book that sold about 13,000 copies. The 1:125 linewide ratio was for the Valiant linewide total of 63,000 copies. Those are basically identical variants when you do the math. (They may have printed 1,000 anyway, but the calculation was about 500 each.) But the 1:25 wasn't the "book to get" for Shadowman #5 from the original solicitations or the initial market sales, and I'd be surprised if it was saved from destruction as often as a 1:125 linewide... so at this point... Shadowman #5 1:25 might be the tougher book.

[kevinbastos]

I keep looking through previous sales on some of these books - trying to set a fair or reasonable price on the bolt of books I am planning on selling.

I want to get them into collectors' hands - not resellers. Frankly, I have not an idea of where to price many of these books.

But what I sell for could set a new normal for many of the books.

[nycjadie]

If there is a warehouse filled with unsold variants, I haven't seen or heard any evidence of that. I know some insiders have put aside several copies of each variant for their own use (including some rare errors). I know that getting replacements on even not-so-rare variants due to damage (both from Diamond and Valiant direct) is near impossible. I know that negotiating some rare variants from employees is difficult, even through a purchase or trade. The rising cost of some variants (hundreds of dollars) hasn't lead to a huge surplus of people trying to cash in on them. All that leads up to me thinking that there very likely isn't a great store of extra copies.

Also agree on the fact that many store exclusives are geographically limited in distribution. I can't get Larry's variants for the life of me (I'm looking if you have extras). Also agree on them not being as desirable, with rare exception. Sometimes a cover artist can make them more desirable (Larry's Bob Layton), or the fact that the store exclusive might have the lowest print run of the variants (e.g. 4001 War Mother first appearance - Most Good Hobby is limited to 500 - really great book to get in 9.8 if you can, especially with that cover stock).

[drmirage]

Shadoman #5 1:20 is going to be a an extremely tough book to find especially in a high grade. (9.8)

This is a dark color cover... the smallest flaws can be seen vividly.


Same goes for Shadowman #2 1:25 and Shadowman #4 1:25

I don't want to imply that there "never will be" a surprise quantity for a few of these variants. Even the article which states that copies are destroyed stated that some copies are put back for VEI before any destruction. How many are saved? "A copy or two" seems like shorthand for "a few as far as publishers are concerned"... so is that 2, 20, or 200? Publishers live in the world of ten thousands, so I'd be surprised if it's a literal one or two. If it's 20 copies saved, then a surprise of 10 copies coming to market could easily happen, but if it's 200, the market could be saturated at any time for any variant.

I'm thinking that the "sweet spot" looking back for the (now) toughest variants is probably the 1:20 or 1:25 variants for a middle or late issue (not a #1 or low issue number) for a title that was selling under 8,000 (in the Comichron.com estimates) at the time. There would have been fewer than 400 of the variant earned (by the calculation) and even if they originally printed 1,000 copies, there would be no good reason for VEI to save the extras because there's nothing otherwise special about a 1:20 for a #9 variant (or #17 or #32, etc.). It doesn't seem like those kinds of books would be a future priority for VEI if they weren't when they were released, so if anything got destroyed in greater numbers, I'm guessing it would be those.

The 1:40 (and above) were "automatically special" because of their ratios, and it's likely that more collectors would go (went) after a 1:40, even if it was a #9 or a #17, and possibly more likely that VEI would save them, just because of the 1:40 ratio. I'm not surprised that the Shadowman #5 1:125 (linewide variant) is hard to find but I would guess that the Shadowman #5 1:25 variant is equally hard to find at this point. The 1:25 was the ratio for a Shadowman #5 book that sold about 13,000 copies. The 1:125 linewide ratio was for the Valiant linewide total of 63,000 copies. Those are basically identical variants when you do the math. (They may have printed 1,000 anyway, but the calculation was about 500 each.) But the 1:25 wasn't the "book to get" for Shadowman #5 from the original solicitations or the initial market sales, and I'd be surprised if it was saved from destruction as often as a 1:125 linewide... so at this point... Shadowman #5 1:25 might be the tougher book.

[DirtbagSailor]

Using Eternal Warrior: Days of Steel as an example.

Issue #1 had 6,785 Printed Copies
Issue #1 (Regular) = Would be the larger percentage of 6,053 split with Issue #1 (Pullbox)
Issue #1 (Pullbox) = Would be the smaller percentage of 6,053 split with Issue #1 (Regular)
Issue #1 (1:15) = 454 Max number of copies earned by retailers
Issue #1 (1:30) = 200 Max number of copies earned by retailers

Issue #2 had 5,760 Printed Copies
Issue #2 (Regular) = 5,472 Printed Regular copies
Issue #2 (1:20) = 274 Max number of copies earned by retailers

Issue #3 had 4,889 Printed Copies
Issue #3 (Regular) = 4,645 Printed Regular copies
Issue #3 (1:20) = 232 Max number of copies earned by retailers

Assuming that retailers actually earned the max number of variants based on their orders (unlikely), and the likeliness that Valiant destroyed any additional copies (minus whatever they keep internally) Eternal Warrior: Days of Steel is an interesting example of what we are discussing here. While not significant on its own, from a collecting standpoint it illustrates how a book or variant can easily be lost/forgotten.

So while these numbers are only an educated guess at best, they do indicate that a collector attempting to complete this collection may encounter some difficulty in locating and/or obtaining each variant.

This series, while interesting and featuring decent artwork, was not very popular for whatever reason (♫ Song of the Savior? ♫). As a result, it is highly likely that these Variants were never really stockpiled by collectors or on anyone's speculation radar.

[DirtbagSailor]

Another good example would be Ivar, Timewalker #2.

Issue #2 had 6,667 Printed Copies
Issue #2 (Regular) = Would be the larger percentage of 6,168 split with Issue #2 (Pullbox)
Issue #2 (Pullbox) = Would be the smaller percentage of 6,168 split with Issue #2 (Regular)
Issue #2 (1:20) = 308 Max number of copies earned by retailers
Issue #2 (1:40) =154 Max number of copies earned by retailers

As a result, finding a NM+/M copy of Ivar, Timewalker #2 (Villalobos 1:40 Variant) is almost impossible!

However, hunting a NM+/M copy of Ivar, Timewalker #2 (Gill 1:20 Variant) might potentially be a challenge as well it seems.

[greg]

I'm still wondering about the 4001AD books having 1:100 variants all the way to #4. The one-shot orders didn't count toward the 1:100 of the mini-series, so who ordered 100 copies of 4001AD #4?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/262602970813" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There may be another wrinkle in the discussion. If the seller in that auction didn't buy 2,000 copies of 4001AD #4 to earn that stack of 1:100 variants, then we need to know if the seller has listed the books they originally purchased secondhand or was there another way to get Valiant variants that didn't sell through Diamond?

EDIT: Answering my own question, perhaps there were extra copies of the variants available to stores that had an exclusive cover for that issue.
Looks like the seller with the stack of 4001AD #4 1:100 variants also had an exclusive cover for #4: https://www.ebay.com/itm/262602961682" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
... and if he really did buy 2,000 of the exclusive cover for #4, wow.

[DirtbagSailor]

I'm still wondering about the 4001AD books having 1:100 variants all the way to #4. The one-shot orders didn't count toward the 1:100 of the mini-series, so who ordered 100 copies of 4001AD #4?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/262602970813" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There may be another wrinkle in the discussion. If the seller in that auction didn't buy 2,000 copies of 4001AD #4 to earn that stack of 1:100 variants, then we need to know if the seller has listed the books they originally purchased secondhand or was there another way to get Valiant variants that didn't sell through Diamond?

EDIT: Answering my own question, perhaps there were extra copies of the variants available to stores that had an exclusive cover for that issue.
Looks like the seller with the stack of 4001AD #4 1:100 variants also had an exclusive cover for #4: https://www.ebay.com/itm/262602961682" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
... and if he really did buy 2,000 of the exclusive cover for #4, wow.

So SOME books, for whatever reason, defied logic.

For example, there really should NOT have been very many copies of A&A: The Adventures of Archer & Armstrong #5 (1:50 Variant) as the print run was around 8,324 for the issue. Yet, I saw a retailer selling a stack of 25-35 copies of the variant for $15 EA the week it was released. I find it difficult to imagine that 21% of the total print run was ordered by one LCS as it would have taken such an order to obtain that many 1:50s for a series that was quite unpopular -- and IF they did, why sell for a fraction of its expected cost? Did this LCS really order 1,750 copies? Doubtful.

I observed similar examples with Divinity II #1 (1:80) and the 4001 A.D. #1-4 (1:100) variants as well; yet nothing like this appeared to occur with other variants (for example) like Imperium #2 (1:20) or Harbinger #3 (1:20).

[chadpdodge]

Which I did. I like the reference to Eternal Warrior days of steel! Took me a while to hunt down these variants

[nycjadie]

I'm still wondering about the 4001AD books having 1:100 variants all the way to #4. The one-shot orders didn't count toward the 1:100 of the mini-series, so who ordered 100 copies of 4001AD #4?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/262602970813" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There may be another wrinkle in the discussion. If the seller in that auction didn't buy 2,000 copies of 4001AD #4 to earn that stack of 1:100 variants, then we need to know if the seller has listed the books they originally purchased secondhand or was there another way to get Valiant variants that didn't sell through Diamond?

EDIT: Answering my own question, perhaps there were extra copies of the variants available to stores that had an exclusive cover for that issue.
Looks like the seller with the stack of 4001AD #4 1:100 variants also had an exclusive cover for #4: https://www.ebay.com/itm/262602961682" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
... and if he really did buy 2,000 of the exclusive cover for #4, wow.

I know from a few stores that for books that are returnable to Valiant direct, they would pay them in TPBs or variants back. Sort of a trade, really. All the variants I wanted (difficult ones) were not available. All of the 4001 variants are common, and go for a fraction of what similar variants cost. Even the high variants.

[DirtbagSailor]

I know from a few stores that for books that are returnable to Valiant direct, they would pay them in TPBs or variants back. Sort of a trade, really. All the variants I wanted (difficult ones) were not available. All of the 4001 variants are common, and go for a fraction of what similar variants cost. Even the high variants.

I think this is the missing piece of the puzzle.

Many of us view a 1:100 variant as a $100 bill, because that is pretty much the standard/expected pre-order cost.

Now, if the Qty of that 1:100 Variant in actual circulation is LESS THAN the print run suggests, AND the issue associated with it was NOT returnable (meaning VEI had no reason to provide additional copies to the retailer), then that Variant will have stronger potential for being rare and/or holding a high market value. This is likely the case with Eternal Warrior #5 (1:50), Shadowman #13 (1:50), or Unity #5 (1:100) that are quite hard to find and hold high market value.

Now, if the Qty of that 1:100 Variant in actual circulation is GREATER THAN the print run suggests, AND the issue associated with it WERE returnable (meaning VEI provided additional copies to the retailer), then that Variant will have weak potential for being rare and/or holding a high market value. This is likely the case with 4001 A.D. #1 (1:100), Wrath of the Eternal Warrior #1 (1:50), and A&A: The Adventurs of Archer & Armstrong #1 (1:50) that are quite easy to find and hold low market value.

Valiant was likely trying to do good business with retailers and sweeten the pot (so to speak) with no real consideration to the fact that by over saturating the market with a given variant (GREATER THAN the print run suggests) it subsequently damages the perceived market value of the variant(s) they were attempting to sweeten the pot with.

Collector 1 pre-orders 4001 A.D. #1 (1:100) from DCBS and pays the standard/expected price of $100. Then observes Collector 2, 3, and 4 purchase 4001 A.D. #1 (1:100) from a retailer on eBay for $25 because they recieved a stack from Valiant (that did not require the order Qty to be met) and can sell below the standard/expected price due to them having no investment in those variants (any profit is still profit from their perspective right?).

Of course this harms the standard/expected value for copies of 4001 A.D. #1 (1:100) obtained by retailers through the normal ordering process, which makes it difficult or impossible to earn a strong ROI on the order because customers won’t pay $100 for a variant that they can find elsewhere for $25. This does not incentivize increased future orders as a result, because the ROI cannot be trusted.

So Unity #5 (1:100) acts like a 1:1,000 variant because it was handled as the system was designed, while 4001 A.D. #1 (1:100) acts like a 1:25 (perhaps) because it was handled like Monopoly money.

[ckb]

I know from a few stores that for books that are returnable to Valiant direct, they would pay them in TPBs or variants back. Sort of a trade, really. All the variants I wanted (difficult ones) were not available. All of the 4001 variants are common, and go for a fraction of what similar variants cost. Even the high variants.

I think this is the missing piece of the puzzle.

Many of us view a 1:100 variant as a $100 bill, because that is pretty much the standard/expected pre-order cost.

Now, if the Qty of that 1:100 Variant in actual circulation is LESS THAN the print run suggests, AND the issue associated with it was NOT returnable (meaning VEI had no reason to provide additional copies to the retailer), then that Variant will have stronger potential for being rare and/or holding a high market value. This is likely the case with Eternal Warrior #5 (1:50), Shadowman #13 (1:50), or Unity #5 (1:100) that are quite hard to find and hold high market value.

Now, if the Qty of that 1:100 Variant in actual circulation is GREATER THAN the print run suggests, AND the issue associated with it WERE returnable (meaning VEI provided additional copies to the retailer), then that Variant will have weak potential for being rare and/or holding a high market value. This is likely the case with 4001 A.D. #1 (1:100), Wrath of the Eternal Warrior #1 (1:50), and A&A: The Adventurs of Archer & Armstrong #1 (1:50) that are quite easy to find and hold low market value.

Valiant was likely trying to do good business with retailers and sweeten the pot (so to speak) with no real consideration to the fact that by over saturating the market with a given variant (GREATER THAN the print run suggests) it subsequently damages the perceived market value of the variant(s) they were attempting to sweeten the pot with.

Collector 1 pre-orders 4001 A.D. #1 (1:100) from DCBS and pays the standard/expected price of $100. Then observes Collector 2, 3, and 4 purchase 4001 A.D. #1 (1:100) from a retailer on eBay for $25 because they recieved a stack from Valiant (that did not require the order Qty to be met) and can sell below the standard/expected price due to them having no investment in those variants (any profit is still profit from their perspective right?).

Of course this harms the standard/expected value for copies of 4001 A.D. #1 (1:100) obtained by retailers through the normal ordering process, which makes it difficult or impossible to earn a strong ROI on the order because customers won’t pay $100 for a variant that they can find elsewhere for $25. This does not incentivize increased future orders as a result, because the ROI cannot be trusted.

So Unity #5 (1:100) acts like a 1:1,000 variant because it was handled as the system was designed, while 4001 A.D. #1 (1:100) acts like a 1:25 (perhaps) because it was handled like Monopoly money.

I would add the possibility of distribution mistakes at Diamond. It's easy to mess up filling a box, figure out your mistake but not completely fix it. We know what happens when they don't figure out the mistake - the whole run of variants gets handed out as normal books.

[Elveen]

Eternal warrior 1 gold VH1

[onearmedwampa3000]

Great thread. However, what if none of the stats we've received are in any way accurate? I'm a big variant collector, but sometimes I get the feeling like they're just being handled out to "favorite" retailers for no apparent reason. I've seen retailers that shouldn't have qualified or didn't order the given # for the ratio have them on the day of release. I really don't think any of the numbers are accurate, and I don't think we'll ever know what the real math is.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

[DirtbagSailor]

Great thread. However, what if none of the stats we've received are in any way accurate? I'm a big variant collector, but sometimes I get the feeling like they're just being handled out to "favorite" retailers for no apparent reason. I've seen retailers that shouldn't have qualified or didn't order the given # for the ratio have them on the day of release. I really don't think any of the numbers are accurate, and I don't think we'll ever know what the real math is.

We won't.

However, we can do our best to get a ball park figure in relative terms.

[777Peralta]

Daniel Khazem the Editor at Valiant Entertainment is dannyrand on EBay.
Who knows how many stacks of Shadow #13, Eternal Warrior #5, and every other "rare" variant he has.

[Elveen]

Great thread. However, what if none of the stats we've received are in any way accurate? I'm a big variant collector, but sometimes I get the feeling like they're just being handled out to "favorite" retailers for no apparent reason. I've seen retailers that shouldn't have qualified or didn't order the given # for the ratio have them on the day of release. I really don't think any of the numbers are accurate, and I don't think we'll ever know what the real math is.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

EVERY retailer / Diamond gives out more variants than LCSs should get. I know multiple LCS dudes out here that ALWAYS get more Variants. And at times, lots more than they should get.

[Elveen]

NM

[onearmedwampa3000]

Here's kind of what I was talking about earlier. This guy has "more than 10 available" of the Shadowman#1 E 1:250 Glow in the dark cover. Are we supposed to believe they ordered at least 2500 copies of the issue? I call *SQUEE*. What am I missing?

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre ... 3083505125" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

[nycjadie]

Here's kind of what I was talking about earlier. This guy has "more than 10 available" of the Shadowman#1 E 1:250 Glow in the dark cover. Are we supposed to believe they ordered at least 2500 copies of the issue? I call *SQUEE*. What am I missing?

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre ... 3083505125" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

He doesn't have them yet. It's a pre-order.

[Elveen]

Here's kind of what I was talking about earlier. This guy has "more than 10 available" of the Shadowman#1 E 1:250 Glow in the dark cover. Are we supposed to believe they ordered at least 2500 copies of the issue? I call *SQUEE*. What am I missing?

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre ... 3083505125" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

He doesn't have them yet. It's a pre-order.

So maybe he is going to order that many?

[DirtbagSailor]

Here's kind of what I was talking about earlier. This guy has "more than 10 available" of the Shadowman#1 E 1:250 Glow in the dark cover. Are we supposed to believe they ordered at least 2500 copies of the issue? I call *SQUEE*. What am I missing?

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre ... 3083505125" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So in this particular case, the seller is pre-selling books that he does not yet have for $400 each. They will cost him $250 each; and he will have a lot of other books and the appropriate variants (e.g. 1:10, 1:20, 1:50, etc) to sell on top of that.

So you pay him $400, and he in turn pockets $150 on the spot, and spends $250 ordering the 1:250 for you (with the understanding of course that it will be mailed to you at a later date).

He then sells all the associated variants he can for additional proffit (since at this point he is in the green and it’s all profit). Oh, and he still has 250 copies +/- to sell or give away as he chooses.

If enough people order from him, it will not only be quite profitable for him, but he may also be able to fund his own collection. Hell, if he has 11x copies available to screen before they are mailed out, he could keep the “Best One” to ensure a 9.8+ for each variant (including the 1:250) and still provide his customers exactly what they ordered!

Sounds wild to some, and maybe it is. But it’s buisness, and if you think this is crazy, you should see how the pharmaceutical, credit card, and oil industries work lol!