Harbinger Renegade

[Thegreatmagnet]

So I swear I'm not trying to stir up *SQUEE* with this poll. Harbinger Renegade seems to be pretty divisive, but we don't really have any data about how the fans are receiving it. Anecdotal evidence can only go so far, and I think there's a danger of getting lost in echo chambers...what does everyone think of the series after 7 issues?

[Keith]

I'm giving it a C. Not bad, not blow my pants off great either. I like where Valiant is taking things, and I'm very intrigued for Harbinger Wars 2, just not sure if I'm a Rafer guy. He is undoubtedly trying his best, just something about his writing doesn't click with me.

Relatively speaking, it's not reaching the lows of Dead Drop. It's not at Shadowman nor A&A: TAoA&A levels. Buts it's definitely not at the same level as Dysart's run.

And, for what it's worth, I think VEIs Harbinger output has ranked superior to VH1.

[onearmedwampa3000]

Anecdotal evidence can only go so far, and I think there's a danger of getting lost in echo chambers...what does everyone think of the series after 7 issues?

Well said. Valiant is far and away my favorite publisher, but I feel as a paying customer and long time comic book reader we have to speak up when something doesn't feel right. I think to say Renegade is "divisive" is putting it lightly. Dysart's run was divisive but also inspired, dynamic, and important. Renegade is the flattest, most uninspired comic I've ever read. The most dynamic part was killing off the characters in issue #5, and that was a cheap Marvel-esque marketing stunt to attract drama and readers, instead of using good writing and natural story arc progression. Talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Gen Zero's solo series may not have been great, but those characters were, and in a business where you are constantly trying to bring in new readers don't kill off your newest and most promising characters. Just write them better next time. As an old school 90's Valiant fan of course I want to see a book like Harbinger be tip top, but I also want to see refreshing new characters in the mix. In one issue Valiant turned a pretty promising, colorful corner of their universe gray, and these characters weren't even developed yet. Complete marketing stunt.

It's never a good sign when you know you can just flip past literally pages of a comic because there isn't anything you'll miss by not reading them. Issue #7 was the epitome of this. Hands down one of the worst comics I've read in 20 years. I thought the series might have something going for it with the introduction of Alexander Solomon, but he's been mostly absent.

Then there's the art. Bland at best. Those pages of pointless dialogue I was just talking about had absolutely nothing visual to draw me to.

I've met Dinesh and Rafer, and the whole gang. Awesome dudes. But this book should be one of their top 3 draws and it just seems like a non issue, pun intended.

Sorry for the rant. I'm always defending Valiant to the "Marvel Zombies" on other sites. I can't defend this book.

[nonplayer]

I loved the coupons incentive part of renagade. But it's fell short actuelly Valiant for a good wile has been falling short for me on their promise to present good stories.
It all started with Archer and Armstrong adventures and the appearance of fish guy.
Bloodshot and d3 can't come soon enough.

[onearmedwampa3000]

I loved the coupons incentive part of renagade. But it's fell short actuelly Valiant for a good wile has been falling short for me on their promise to present good stories.
It all started with Archer and Armstrong adventures and the appearance of fish guy.
Bloodshot and d3 can't come soon enough.

Totally agree. Rafer is such a great and unique artist, I wish he would draw a book instead of writing. That's 2 series' for him that just didn't hit.

[kinggirlfriend]

Only reading it out of commitment to the characters from all the goodwill earned during Dysart's run. Feels like a chore. Similar to the difference in quality from Fred's A&A to the recent A+A. Pains me to say this but I'm not sure if I'll make it to HW2.

[onearmedwampa3000]

Only reading it out of commitment to the characters from all the goodwill earned during Dysart's run. Feels like a chore. Similar to the difference in quality from Fred's A&A to the recent A+A. Pains me to say this but I'm not sure if I'll make it to HW2.

I feel the same. I'm definitely done with the series. HW2 will depend on that 0 issue.

[ShadowTuga]

I would love to post something really positive about this book, but I just can't. It sucks. Sorry for my honest, personal opinion. #5 had all the crazy stuff thrown at one's eyes, but when you re-read that...

[Dallow Spicer1]

I give it a C so far, 'must try harder'.

Soloman is a great addition as a character but so far it's been too inconsistent as a book. The art is an issuer for me, mediocre and too cartoony. Valiant has a tendency to shoot itself in the foot sometimes with it's creative choices. They pumped a massive amount of publicity into Book of Death only to have one of the weakest artist draw the book Likewise here, Robertson is not an A level artist so why the book is going on hold so he can draw each arc is a mystery!

Issue 5 didn't live up to the hype either. This book needs turning around and fast!

[agent_graves]

C+... I think it's gaining some momentum now, which it'll ultimately lose, due to another break in the publishing schedule...

[nonplayer]

Only reading it out of commitment to the characters from all the goodwill earned during Dysart's run. Feels like a chore. Similar to the difference in quality from Fred's A&A to the recent A+A. Pains me to say this but I'm not sure if I'll make it to HW2.

Agreed

[tell]

I defended it up through #5, but I can't anymore it's just not good. I give it a D, it's my least favorite of the current titles.

If Dysart had finished his story and this was just the next thing for Harbinger I'd be fine with just not caring. Like A&A wasn't very good but I didn't care because it didn't derail FVL's run. But Dysart didn't, he authored Valiants best work (in my opinion) which was taken away presumably for sales reasons and given to Rafer to kill off characters and completely change the story to something that's just not good. While Dysart turned Harbinger into a perfect take on an Xmen story, Rafer turned that into any mediocre Xmen story. I'm still bitter that Valiant would rather have better floppy sales than a back catalog library of amazing and respected trades. Nobody is going to go back in a few years and want these trades over Dysart or FLV's runs, and I don't believe that a single employee or creator at VEI thinks that A&A or Harbinger Renegade is an improvement on FVL or Dysart's work.

But whiney what-ifs aside, this story is boring, the writing is awkward, I don't like the art, the pacing is awful, the publishing schedule is idiotic. I tried to like the art but I can't, most the characters look terrible or barely recognizable (Animalia, Ax, Peter), the issues just seem to focus on anything and they come in any random order giving me no desire to give a *SQUEE*. Honestly the only thing about this book that makes me interested in HW2 is that Rafer is not writing it.

I've given him the benefit of the doubt since A&A #1 but I can't anymore. Rafer Roberts is a bad writer and I think I'm just not going to read anything else he is put on.

[Bl00dsh0t]

C+... I think it's gaining some momentum now, which it'll ultimately lose, due to another break in the publishing schedule...

This.

I just don't understand the decision to have a break between story arcs.

[jmatt]

Soloman is a great addition as a character but so far it's been too inconsistent as a book. The art is an issuer for me, mediocre and too cartoony. Valiant has a tendency to shoot itself in the foot sometimes with it's creative choices. They pumped a massive amount of publicity into Book of Death only to have one of the weakest artist draw the book Likewise here, Robertson is not an A level artist so why the book is going on hold so he can draw each arc is a mystery!

Agreed. The concept is solid, with Soloman breaking away and thwarting Harada, etc etc. But the execution is terrible.

A charitable C-.

And ditto on the BoD comment.

[Michael_Ayer]

Dinesh,

I have bought every comic (besides the QW weird continuum). I'm almost out of VEI. And renegades is part of that. If I wasn't a committed type person I would be out already.

Instead of VEI I picked up comixology unlimited and I'm reading more marvel than VEI. Go back to the type of consistent stories of a couple years ago. Just my 2 cents

[onearmedwampa3000]

Instead of VEI I picked up comixology unlimited and I'm reading more marvel than VEI.

With all the books that get cancelled, Harbinger Renegade should be at the top of that list, but Marvel as a universe over the past 5 years or so is the bottom of the barrel. I guess that's why Renegade is so disappointing, because it reminds me of a Marvel book. Marvel has become the epitome of uninspired writing, marginalized characters, stunt promotion, and kowtowing/pandering to the movie audience. That's my biggest fear with all of this, on a big picture scale. I feel like Valiant needs at least another 5 years to work out kinks like Renegade and get the Valiant name in people's mouths before they hinge their movie universe on a comic universe that started great and is now hit or miss. People are going to see these movies and tv shows and want to read some comics. You want to be able to hand them the newest, current stuff which should also be the most relevant. I would never recommend this book. So to new readers do I say "read the old stuff, avoid the new stuff."? That's sad to me.

[Manaf82]

What Harbinger:Renegade is it's not deep unlike Dysarts run.It feels like a book created just to get the characters to Harbinger Wars 2.It feels like Raefer was told by the editorial that you are supposed to get this from point a to b.The story is uninspiring.Solomon feels like they wanted to add Idris Elba as a bad guy in one of the later movies,so they created a bad guy who talks well.Major Palmer acts like a total *SQUEE* unlike his previous characterisation,generation zero was killed so easily.Unlike their bad *SQUEE* reputation.If they did this over multiple issues over multiple battles,that would have been more believable.I don't mind characters dying,but this lack depth and meaning.And yes Rafer Roberts is just an average writer.And art work is just unfitting for this book.

Also they didn't stop Dysart,he decided not to write for a while,he is doing other things.At least in the case of Imperium.


While Dysart was writing it,it is the book i can't wait to read,now it's like reading a Wikipedia entry than a book.For a book which is taking so many breaks the quality is just not there.Also the moster Kurgan badguy they introduced was just meh..Seems like any other bad guy...
Seriously though the Gen Zero book by Van lente was far superior to this.I wish they at least made that series run till issue 12 to give it a proper conclusion.In fact if the final battle of Gen Zero was in that book it would have been perfect thematically and it could have been read like a proper self contained story with a beginning and an end.Maybe a 25 issue run to give it proper depth with flashbacks to their previous lives at Project Rising Spirit.


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[Manaf82]

Also probably a nice guy,But please get rid of Raefer Roberts..There are so many other good writers they could get..


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[onearmedwampa3000]

Major Palmer acts like a total *SQUEE* unlike his previous characterisation,generation zero was killed so easily.Unlike their bad *SQUEE* reputation.If they did this over multiple issues over multiple battles,that would have been more believable.I don't mind characters dying,but this lack depth and meaning.

Seriously though the Gen Zero book by Van lente was far superior to this.I wish they at least made that series run till issue 12 to give it a proper conclusion.In fact if the final battle of Gen Zero was in that book it would have been perfect thematically and it could have been read like a proper self contained story with a beginning and an end.

Some great points on Palmer and Gen0. Palmer is a great character that they could groom to be a household name. Cronus and Telic were some of Valiant's most promising characters, and like Divinity, they were fresh to VEI. I have no idea why they didn't cultivate these into mainstays. Dinesh and crew are some smart folks, I can't accept that they would decide to kill them off due to bad sales on the Gen0 book. A book that doesn't sell doesn't mean the characters are trash. Marvel does this all the time: bad sales, get rid of the characters. No. Just write them better or differently. Invest in them like your fans have. I can't get over what a cash grab stunt that was with issue #5.

[Nairbe]

I <3 all things Valiant, but Harbinger Renegades is making that unconditional love a little difficult at the moment.

For every good (not great) issue there's 2-3 bad ones. I am also not a Rafer fan. He may have done great stuff outside of Valiant, but none of his Valiant work has been very good to me.

Also, I understand why they did what they did for issue #5, but there was zero build up to it. This was essentially a partial rematch of HW 1 and they wrapped it up in one issue. How about using some of that break time to actually build up the story!?!

Anyways, I gave it a D. I will continue to buy and read it, but it's almost all out of loyalty (just like A&A).

[onearmedwampa3000]

Also, I understand why they did what they did for issue #5, but there was zero build up to it. This was essentially a partial rematch of HW 1 and they wrapped it up in one issue. How about using some of that break time to actually build up the story!?!

Anyways, I gave it a D. I will continue to buy and read it, but it's almost all out of loyalty (just like A&A).

Good point with the build up, and I get the loyalty thing, but we can't do that. Not even for Valiant. Otherwise there's no incentive for change. If any publisher gets your money, that translates to a thumbs up. It's not going to hurt anyone's feelings, it will only make them a better publisher when they know what readers want and don't want. Money speaks.

[nonplayer]

Also, I understand why they did what they did for issue #5, but there was zero build up to it. This was essentially a partial rematch of HW 1 and they wrapped it up in one issue. How about using some of that break time to actually build up the story!?!

Anyways, I gave it a D. I will continue to buy and read it, but it's almost all out of loyalty (just like A&A).

Good point with the build up, and I get the loyalty thing, but we can't do that. Not even for Valiant. Otherwise there's no incentive for change. If any publisher gets your money, that translates to a thumbs up. It's not going to hurt anyone's feelings, it will only make them a better publisher when they know what readers want and don't want. Money speaks.

I don't know who's running the ship but isn't somebody checking what goes to print. Don't Valiant have a team of people that can say um ya but sorry no.
Damit hire Dysart back.

[jmatt]

This is one of the pitfalls of having so few books every month: In a one-comic week, if the issue's a dud it's all anyone has to talk about.

Sunnier days ahead. There are some great things in the VU and we will all be reminded of that soon enough.

[onearmedwampa3000]

This is one of the pitfalls of having so few books every month: In a one-comic week, if the issue's a dud it's all anyone has to talk about.

Sunnier days ahead. There are some great things in the VU and we will all be reminded of that soon enough.

That's all fine, but you can't just gloss over a bad book that should be near flagship. I've actually felt this way since the series started, but tried to convince myself it was good. Weather it's the one book that week or not the post topic is "Harbinger Renegade" not "Harbinger Renegade #7 the only Valiant book this week."

[onearmedwampa3000]

This is one of the pitfalls of having so few books every month: In a one-comic week, if the issue's a dud it's all anyone has to talk about.

Sunnier days ahead. There are some great things in the VU and we will all be reminded of that soon enough.

Sorry, didn't mean to sound like a *SQUEE* just then. To your point about having so few books, all the more reason (and easier) to make sure every one is tip top.