Rapture #4 discussion

An area for Valiant SPOILER-RELATED discussions.
Any books which have been published and are available may be discussed here. Recent book discussions may contain spoilers for those who have not yet read them.

Moderators: Daniel Jackson, greg

Post Reply
slack
Get those scissors away from my coupons
Get those scissors away from my coupons
Posts: 393
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 7:26:39 pm
Valiant fan since: pre-Unity 90's
Favorite character: Toyo Harada
Favorite title: Harbinger (Dysart)
Favorite writer: tough choice
Favorite artist: ?
Rapture #4 discussion

Post by slack »

I loved how Tama basically explained that this mini was about dusting Shadowman off and putting him back into play.

User avatar
TheeBaldMoose
Rockin' out in Torquehalla
Rockin' out in Torquehalla
Posts: 2451
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 12:03:41 pm
Valiant fan since: ECCC April 2016
Favorite character: Bloodshot/Ninjak/Divinity
Favorite title: Divinity/BS Reborn/Britannia
Favorite writer: Kindt/Lemire/Roberts
Favorite artist: All of them, really
Location: Tacoma
Re: Rapture #4 discussion

Post by TheeBaldMoose »

I got that Shadowman needed a "pick me up and dust me off" book, and redemption with his father, but I think it was seriously lacking the "umph" I kind of expect with Shadowman. This needs to be a *SQUEE* up story, it needs to be edgier. Give me Shadowman as the Batman of the Valiant universe, a reason to be mad, a reason to do the things he does. Either that or give me the 4001 Shadowwoman. People stay away from her, they kind of fear her some.

This was like a Shadowman lite, with a splash of lemon and no edge.

Good, just not great
Moose

User avatar
agent_graves
Just jumpin' through time arcs, that's all.
Just jumpin' through time arcs, that's all.
Posts: 1754
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:34:56 pm
Valiant fan since: Since VEI(Turok #1?)
Favorite character: Divinity/Shadowman/LiveWire
Favorite title: Divinity/Imperium/Ninjak
Favorite writer: Kindt/Lemire/Dysart
Favorite artist: Mann/Cafu/De la Torre
Location: North Carolina
Re: Rapture #4 discussion

Post by agent_graves »

A lot of cool moments for Jack in this finale, this was his story from the jump, he's walking his own path now... :thumb:

I'm wondering though, why no Shadowman/Rae Shrumond plug. I guess it's an out of continuity tale, but still... :?
#StayValiant

User avatar
grendeljd
innerSPACE does whatever I tell them
innerSPACE does whatever I tell them
Posts: 8132
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:51:43 am
Valiant fan since: 1991
Favorite character: Aric
Favorite title: Harbinger
Location: On the 7.5th floor of LesterCorp, headed through the back door to John Malkovich's brain.
Re: Rapture #4 discussion

Post by grendeljd »

If anyone would like to hear our OTV:VCR podcast discussing/reviewing this issue [and Faith & The Future Force #2], please follow the link;

http://onlythevaliant.com/episodes/vcr131/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks to any who listen in :thumb:
I like to draw stuff... http://grendeljd.deviantart.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My wife likes to draw stuff too, and she is better than me! [I'm very proud of her]... https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sara-Dec ... ref=stream" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
jmatt
Mmm, I was drooling over Cooshie tonight.
Mmm, I was drooling over Cooshie tonight.
Posts: 11026
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:41:10 pm
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA!
Re: Rapture #4 discussion

Post by jmatt »

So, what is Liveside? I had always assumed it referred to our world, but Jack visits his deceased father there.

I enjoyed the issue.

otomo
Get those scissors away from my coupons
Get those scissors away from my coupons
Posts: 342
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:04:27 pm
Valiant fan since: 2017
Favorite character: XO Manowar
Favorite title: XO Manowar
Favorite writer: Matt Kindt
Favorite artist: Tomas Giorello
Re: Rapture #4 discussion

Post by otomo »

Yeah that was weird for me too JMatt -- it's either another dimension or something like "heaven" to the deadside "hell" -- or it means he's not actually dead and is in our universe somehow. They talked about this on the podcast head scratchy like too.

I found this to be okay. I was intrigued with some of the creatures and the whole tower of babel thing a little bit in the first couple issues, but story wise it didn't really go that interesting. The visuals were BEAUTIFUL in this. Cafu did a great job as did the colorist in making bright, cool, spiritual beings. The action looks great -- and in that regard for Kindt reminds me of the first three XO Manowar where he has a ton of action in it but the story's not totally developed. Or in this case, it was maybe stretched to 4 issues when it was really 3 1/2 for the story.

My main thought: this should have been billed as a Geomancer book. Ninjak was very secondary and Shadowman had his personal arc but the story was Tama's at the end of the day. If I would have expected that going in I might have come at reading it a little differently and maybe enjoyed it from that whole prophecy/supernatural perspective rather than expecting Shadowman/Ninjak leading from the cover.

It's as people have said, dusting Shadowman off. I would have preferred more of a full retcon of the stuff that happened last with him.
Like XO Manowar or Conan The Barbarian? Check out my new graphic novel, DEUS VULT on IndieGoGo now: Deus Vult: http://igg.me/at/deusvult.

User avatar
jmatt
Mmm, I was drooling over Cooshie tonight.
Mmm, I was drooling over Cooshie tonight.
Posts: 11026
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:41:10 pm
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA!
Re: Rapture #4 discussion

Post by jmatt »

otomo wrote:My main thought: this should have been billed as a Geomancer book. Ninjak was very secondary and Shadowman had his personal arc but the story was Tama's at the end of the day.
Good point. Ninjak wasn't really the lead in this arc but the covers would have one think otherwise.

tell
100 posts! (if you round to the nearest 100)
100 posts! (if you round to the nearest 100)
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:14:55 pm
Re: Rapture #4 discussion

Post by tell »

I liked this and where it went story wise with Shadowman. I think ignoring the past issues is a pitfall for other companies, *SQUEE* happened in his solo books and not dealing with the consequences is bad storytelling. I also agree this really is a Geomancer book but I don't care how they billed it really.

I don't really get or like the Liveside as a term. Shouldn't it be that the realm of the living is the Liveside if the realm of the Dead is the Deadside? They directly call it Heaven several times, so I don't get the term Liveside in the first place.

I'm perfectly happy to have some world building in the Deadside but it doesn't really feel like there is any plan or organization to the concept. Between Rapture/Ninjak, Dr Mirage, and WotEW there doesn't seem to be much consistency to the place or how it works. It seems to be used for however the writer wants. I kind of get the feeling I'm supposed to go with Mambo's directions to stop looking for logic in the Deadside, but that feels like just a conveniently lame way to tell whatever the story needs at that time.

And once again I think Valiant sacrificed a better story for their dependance on 4 issue minis. I get that basically every issue of a book gets worse sales than the one before it, but this didn't give us really any chance to get to know Rex or really care about him. I think this is a more and more common problem with these minis. Even if there were 6 issues we could have gotten a lot out of this story. And once again we will see a follow up, but in like 6 months.

It sounds like I didn't like it, but I did. I'm just getting tired of getting into a story that's just over indefinitely. Savage, Rapture, 4001 (took a year to follow up), who knows when Secret Weapons will have a sequel. It's like they publish a story arc, judge it's reception then greenlight the next part. I'd really like to stay engaged in a story, I can wait a couple months between arcs like Image does, but Valiant keeps hyping things to death then dropping them as soon as it's out to hype the next thing to death. The most consistent they've been with this method is Divinity and it's still only been 13 issues in 30 months.

User avatar
jmatt
Mmm, I was drooling over Cooshie tonight.
Mmm, I was drooling over Cooshie tonight.
Posts: 11026
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:41:10 pm
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA!
Re: Rapture #4 discussion

Post by jmatt »

Not much to argue with there. I personally don't mind the breaks because I'm in for the long haul and know I'll see the next arc. But yeah, it does kinda zork momentum.

User avatar
Dallow Spicer1
Rockin' out in Torquehalla
Rockin' out in Torquehalla
Posts: 2454
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:19:05 am
Valiant fan since: Mid 90's
Favorite character: X-O
Favorite title: X-O
Favorite writer: V-Ditti & Dysart
Favorite artist: Larosa
Location: United Kingdom
Re: Rapture #4 discussion

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

This probably wasn't the series for me. I don't find Shadowman an interesting character, it's been too long since a Shadowman (or woman) story was anything more than mediocre. I also find Deadside to be generally uninteresting so my expectations were suitably adjusted not to expect much....and this series delivered on that expectation.

Had enough of Ninjak in Deadside now and let's keep Kindt away from magic related stuff :?

Question...the guy with the 4 arms, at the start of issue 3 flashback he seemed to only have 2 arms, when did the extra arms kick in? :?

2.75/5 for this issue. Readable but very forgettable

tell
100 posts! (if you round to the nearest 100)
100 posts! (if you round to the nearest 100)
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:14:55 pm
Re: Rapture #4 discussion

Post by tell »

Dallow Spicer1 wrote:Question...the guy with the 4 arms, at the start of issue 3 flashback he seemed to only have 2 arms, when did the extra arms kick in?
I wondered the same thing, I'm not sure if it's an art goof or not. When the flashback starts he says something like he was exiled for being a freak. At the beginning I can see no indication of four arms, then a few panels later they are there. So I'm not sure if he was born with four arms and exiled, or if he was exiled for something else and somehow grew more arms through black magic rituals or something.

User avatar
QUARTZ
Get those scissors away from my coupons
Get those scissors away from my coupons
Posts: 311
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:45:19 am
Re: Rapture #4 discussion

Post by QUARTZ »

TheeBaldMoose wrote:I got that Shadowman needed a "pick me up and dust me off" book, and redemption with his father, but I think it was seriously lacking the "umph" I kind of expect with Shadowman. This needs to be a *SQUEE* up story, it needs to be edgier. Give me Shadowman as the Batman of the Valiant universe, a reason to be mad, a reason to do the things he does. Either that or give me the 4001 Shadowwoman. People stay away from her, they kind of fear her some.

This was like a Shadowman lite, with a splash of lemon and no edge.

Good, just not great
I agree, I really wasn't excited by this series. It seemed to be a better pitch than payoff, so Shadowman's back now, that's great, not sure if they needed a whole miniseries in service of it. The Shadowman stuff has not been dark enough for me either. It should read like a horror comic.

User avatar
kinggirlfriend
5318008
5318008
Posts: 568
Joined: Thu May 11, 2017 5:20:12 pm
Valiant fan since: 2016
Favorite character: Gilad
Favorite title: Wrath
Favorite writer: Venditti
Favorite artist: CAFU
Location: Southwest Desert
Re: Rapture #4 discussion

Post by kinggirlfriend »

Just read the trade so I'll put all my thoughts here.

I ended up really loving this. Maybe it was lowered expectations, I kept telling myself I was tired of this Ninjak in the Deadside stuff. But I thought this was a slick well done little story. Sometimes Kindt does rush the world building and introduces too many quirky characters too quickly but by the end it all won me over and made total sense. CAFU's art is amazing, and this arc compliments Doug Braithwaite's art in OPERATION DEADSIDE nicely. I wasn't looking forward to reading a story about a little kid either but Tama quickly won me over. Rex, too. I would love to see more fantasy-esque stories like this with these characters, including Magpie Jack and Punk Mambo.

User avatar
ShadowTuga
Chapa Zero in Portuguese translated to English would be Chapa Zero.
Chapa Zero in Portuguese translated to English would be Chapa Zero.
Posts: 3692
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:06:13 am
Valiant fan since: 2012
Location: Lisboa, Portugal
Re: Rapture #4 discussion

Post by ShadowTuga »

I finally read this series last two chapters.

Meh.

Felt like comics by numbers, only thing to take from here is "Shadowman is his own man again". I think.
Honestly, when the best thing about this series hasn't yet happened (Tama and that Demon teaming up)... what can I say? Another Valiant event that started strong and ended flat. Babel was a *SQUEE* by the end of #4. And Ninjak was here to what, boost sales? Take Colin out of the Deadside, it worked once and now it feels weird. My opinion, of course.

All in all 3 out of 5. Competent, entertaining at points but the ending felt anti-climatic. And what the hell is Liveside, seriously what is that? Was Josiah there? Is it heaven? Is it the world of the living? :?
“To give a person an opinion one must first judge well whether that person is of the disposition to receive it or not.”
Yamamoto Tsunetomo


Post Reply