Bloodshot USA #1 Discussion
Moderators: Daniel Jackson, greg
-
- Rockin' out in Torquehalla
- Posts: 2242
- Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:16 pm
- Valiant fan since: back in the day xo#9
- Favorite character: Momo, xo turok
- Favorite title: Wrath of the eternal warrior
- Favorite writer: Joshua dysart
- Favorite artist: Robert Gill
- Location: out for lunch
Bloodshot USA #1 Discussion
Omg! I read this last night and it blew my mind.
What do you guys think?
What do you guys think?
I Miss the good old days.
- grendeljd
- innerSPACE does whatever I tell them
- Posts: 8230
- Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:51 am
- Valiant fan since: 1991
- Favorite character: Aric
- Favorite title: Harbinger
- Location: On the 7.5th floor of LesterCorp, headed through the back door to John Malkovich's brain.
Re: Bloodshot USA #1
Wrong area to post this, buddy.
I like to draw stuff... http://grendeljd.deviantart.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
My wife likes to draw stuff too, and she is better than me! [I'm very proud of her]... https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sara-Dec ... ref=stream" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
My wife likes to draw stuff too, and she is better than me! [I'm very proud of her]... https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sara-Dec ... ref=stream" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- Psiot X
- Is it Dee-no or Die-no? Dunno.
- Posts: 416
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 10:22 pm
- Valiant fan since: 2014
- Favorite character: Toyo Harada
- Favorite title: Harbinger
- Favorite writer: Josh Dysart
- Favorite artist: Rafa Sandoval
Re: Bloodshot USA #1
I didn't even know it was out yet. Crap... Budget. Be a while before I can get it. 

- greg
- The admin around here must be getting old and soft.
- Posts: 22880
- Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 9:39 am
- Valiant fan since: Rai #0
- Favorite character: Depends on title
- Favorite title: Depends on writer
- Favorite writer: Depends on artist
- Favorite artist: Depends on character
- Location: Indoors
- Contact:
Re: Bloodshot USA #1
Moved.grendeljd wrote:Wrong area to post this, buddy.

- grendeljd
- innerSPACE does whatever I tell them
- Posts: 8230
- Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:51 am
- Valiant fan since: 1991
- Favorite character: Aric
- Favorite title: Harbinger
- Location: On the 7.5th floor of LesterCorp, headed through the back door to John Malkovich's brain.
Re: Bloodshot USA #1 Discussion
If anyone would like to hear our OTV:VCR podcast discussing/reviewing this issue (& Generation Zero #3), please follow the link;
http://onlythevaliant.com/episodes/vcr88/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thanks to any who listen in
http://onlythevaliant.com/episodes/vcr88/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thanks to any who listen in

I like to draw stuff... http://grendeljd.deviantart.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
My wife likes to draw stuff too, and she is better than me! [I'm very proud of her]... https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sara-Dec ... ref=stream" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
My wife likes to draw stuff too, and she is better than me! [I'm very proud of her]... https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sara-Dec ... ref=stream" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- grendeljd
- innerSPACE does whatever I tell them
- Posts: 8230
- Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:51 am
- Valiant fan since: 1991
- Favorite character: Aric
- Favorite title: Harbinger
- Location: On the 7.5th floor of LesterCorp, headed through the back door to John Malkovich's brain.
Re: Bloodshot USA #1
greg wrote:Moved.grendeljd wrote:Wrong area to post this, buddy.

I like to draw stuff... http://grendeljd.deviantart.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
My wife likes to draw stuff too, and she is better than me! [I'm very proud of her]... https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sara-Dec ... ref=stream" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
My wife likes to draw stuff too, and she is better than me! [I'm very proud of her]... https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sara-Dec ... ref=stream" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- jmatt
- Mmm, I was drooling over Cooshie tonight.
- Posts: 11027
- Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:41 pm
- Location: Lehigh Valley, PA!
Re: Bloodshot USA #1 Discussion
Holeee...
Wow, what a magnificent issue. I'm interested to see how they handle a decapitated Bloodshot.
Wow, what a magnificent issue. I'm interested to see how they handle a decapitated Bloodshot.
- grendeljd
- innerSPACE does whatever I tell them
- Posts: 8230
- Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:51 am
- Valiant fan since: 1991
- Favorite character: Aric
- Favorite title: Harbinger
- Location: On the 7.5th floor of LesterCorp, headed through the back door to John Malkovich's brain.
Re: Bloodshot USA #1 Discussion
I thought the art team did a fantastic job with the visuals - loved the artwork!
The story completely falls apart around one gaping bad idea though.
Kozol's master plan is to introduce a virus that changes thousands of people into bloodshots. A signature piece of PRS technology. Then he's going to swoop in with a new piece of PRS tech to save the day, intending to make the company look like a hero to all & reap all the rewards... As if no-one would have any idea that they were behind the whole thing?!
Come on.
PRS is active on the world stage (Imperium - we may not be getting new issues of that story, but Harada should still be over in Somalia building his Foundation Zone). Their tech & operations may be top secret to the general public, but government agencies like MI6 & G.A.T.E. are aware of their existence & their tech. Diane Festival was able to find out about them despite the fact that they covered their tracks. Bloodshot was on the Unity team - they know who & what he is - they will know this virus is coming from PRS!! The whole plan is absolutely flawed from the start!!!
What makes it worse is that Kozol is suddenly actually acting like a 1-dimensional mustache-twirling "bad guy" with a silly evil plan for world domination, and having Diane Festival point that out in the previous issue does not make it okay. The guy is a sleazy profiteer with little-to-no morals, sure - but he really just wants money, not to change or rule the world.
The story completely falls apart around one gaping bad idea though.
Kozol's master plan is to introduce a virus that changes thousands of people into bloodshots. A signature piece of PRS technology. Then he's going to swoop in with a new piece of PRS tech to save the day, intending to make the company look like a hero to all & reap all the rewards... As if no-one would have any idea that they were behind the whole thing?!
Come on.
PRS is active on the world stage (Imperium - we may not be getting new issues of that story, but Harada should still be over in Somalia building his Foundation Zone). Their tech & operations may be top secret to the general public, but government agencies like MI6 & G.A.T.E. are aware of their existence & their tech. Diane Festival was able to find out about them despite the fact that they covered their tracks. Bloodshot was on the Unity team - they know who & what he is - they will know this virus is coming from PRS!! The whole plan is absolutely flawed from the start!!!
What makes it worse is that Kozol is suddenly actually acting like a 1-dimensional mustache-twirling "bad guy" with a silly evil plan for world domination, and having Diane Festival point that out in the previous issue does not make it okay. The guy is a sleazy profiteer with little-to-no morals, sure - but he really just wants money, not to change or rule the world.
I like to draw stuff... http://grendeljd.deviantart.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
My wife likes to draw stuff too, and she is better than me! [I'm very proud of her]... https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sara-Dec ... ref=stream" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
My wife likes to draw stuff too, and she is better than me! [I'm very proud of her]... https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sara-Dec ... ref=stream" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- Psiot X
- Is it Dee-no or Die-no? Dunno.
- Posts: 416
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 10:22 pm
- Valiant fan since: 2014
- Favorite character: Toyo Harada
- Favorite title: Harbinger
- Favorite writer: Josh Dysart
- Favorite artist: Rafa Sandoval
Re: Bloodshot USA #1 Discussion
I sacrificed some beer and cigarettes on the altar of Valiant comics and was rewarded with a copy of Bloodshot USA #1. It was at this point I began to wonder if religion demands too much of me and If I should just resort to petty theft. But since I am not up to being in jail or comic hell I decided to live with it while whining.
For personal tastes I was alright with the art. It's good, I wasn't blown away by any big panel (I am a sucker for those) but I did really like the panels with GN GR. Bloodshot Nanites can't infect large AI machines like that right?
I loved the idea in play. I don't mean to be too nit-picky when I say it was cramped with dialogue bubbles as it isn't exactly a complaint more an observation on how it played with the art. It was a good read with a good action film ending to pick up with next issue.
Am I wrong in that expectation? I mean I get some times you want more but each book has its niche, its place.
I thought profit was an aside for Kozol at least in this book. I think he really just wanted to blow up a large area and bunch of people to see the world burn on a power trip while using profiteering on the damage as an excuse. Money is not his real motive. This is a bloody power trip with him playing puppet master, flipping switches to make buildings or people blow up, like some mad conductor of an orchestra.
Does it read out of character that way?
I might be reading too much into this but I am also reminded of that interview Dysart did. Where he talked about some editorial upset with making Peter look too much like a bad guy and Harada too much like a hero back in Harbinger / Imperium. Could some of the recent villain portrayals as a bit more stereotypical be related to the idea of keeping villains firmly villains and heroes strongly heroes to safe guard their spots in the Valiant Universe for storytelling long term?
For personal tastes I was alright with the art. It's good, I wasn't blown away by any big panel (I am a sucker for those) but I did really like the panels with GN GR. Bloodshot Nanites can't infect large AI machines like that right?
I loved the idea in play. I don't mean to be too nit-picky when I say it was cramped with dialogue bubbles as it isn't exactly a complaint more an observation on how it played with the art. It was a good read with a good action film ending to pick up with next issue.
When it comes to a Bloodshot comic I don't expect Imperium levels of plot thoughtfulness. I kind of expect a read like a big summer action film blockbuster so I was a bit more forgiving on the plot as it served its purpose just like those films typically do. In essence, setting the stage for a lot of explosions and some boobs if you are lucky. Typical spectacle, not so thought ridden stuff.grendeljd wrote:I thought the art team did a fantastic job with the visuals - loved the artwork!
The story completely falls apart around one gaping bad idea though.
Kozol's master plan is to introduce a virus that changes thousands of people into bloodshots. A signature piece of PRS technology. Then he's going to swoop in with a new piece of PRS tech to save the day, intending to make the company look like a hero to all & reap all the rewards... As if no-one would have any idea that they were behind the whole thing?!
Come on.
PRS is active on the world stage (Imperium - we may not be getting new issues of that story, but Harada should still be over in Somalia building his Foundation Zone). Their tech & operations may be top secret to the general public, but government agencies like MI6 & G.A.T.E. are aware of their existence & their tech. Diane Festival was able to find out about them despite the fact that they covered their tracks. Bloodshot was on the Unity team - they know who & what he is - they will know this virus is coming from PRS!! The whole plan is absolutely flawed from the start!!!
What makes it worse is that Kozol is suddenly actually acting like a 1-dimensional mustache-twirling "bad guy" with a silly evil plan for world domination, and having Diane Festival point that out in the previous issue does not make it okay. The guy is a sleazy profiteer with little-to-no morals, sure - but he really just wants money, not to change or rule the world.
Am I wrong in that expectation? I mean I get some times you want more but each book has its niche, its place.
I thought profit was an aside for Kozol at least in this book. I think he really just wanted to blow up a large area and bunch of people to see the world burn on a power trip while using profiteering on the damage as an excuse. Money is not his real motive. This is a bloody power trip with him playing puppet master, flipping switches to make buildings or people blow up, like some mad conductor of an orchestra.
Does it read out of character that way?
I might be reading too much into this but I am also reminded of that interview Dysart did. Where he talked about some editorial upset with making Peter look too much like a bad guy and Harada too much like a hero back in Harbinger / Imperium. Could some of the recent villain portrayals as a bit more stereotypical be related to the idea of keeping villains firmly villains and heroes strongly heroes to safe guard their spots in the Valiant Universe for storytelling long term?
- greg
- The admin around here must be getting old and soft.
- Posts: 22880
- Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 9:39 am
- Valiant fan since: Rai #0
- Favorite character: Depends on title
- Favorite title: Depends on writer
- Favorite writer: Depends on artist
- Favorite artist: Depends on character
- Location: Indoors
- Contact:
Re: Bloodshot USA #1 Discussion
Similar or worse than that already happened to all of them on the island, right?jmatt wrote:Holeee...
Wow, what a magnificent issue. I'm interested to see how they handle a decapitated Bloodshot.

- jeremycoe
- I like spidey-butt and I can not lie
- Posts: 3345
- Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:40 am
- Valiant fan since: 1993
- Favorite character: Bloodshot
- Favorite title: Quantum & Woody (Acclaim)
- Location: Utah
Re: Bloodshot USA #1 Discussion
They already got off in Colorado, not that big of a stretch to think they could do it in NYC.grendeljd wrote:I thought the art team did a fantastic job with the visuals - loved the artwork!
The story completely falls apart around one gaping bad idea though.
Kozol's master plan is to introduce a virus that changes thousands of people into bloodshots. A signature piece of PRS technology. Then he's going to swoop in with a new piece of PRS tech to save the day, intending to make the company look like a hero to all & reap all the rewards... As if no-one would have any idea that they were behind the whole thing?!
Come on.
PRS is active on the world stage (Imperium - we may not be getting new issues of that story, but Harada should still be over in Somalia building his Foundation Zone). Their tech & operations may be top secret to the general public, but government agencies like MI6 & G.A.T.E. are aware of their existence & their tech. Diane Festival was able to find out about them despite the fact that they covered their tracks. Bloodshot was on the Unity team - they know who & what he is - they will know this virus is coming from PRS!! The whole plan is absolutely flawed from the start!!!
What makes it worse is that Kozol is suddenly actually acting like a 1-dimensional mustache-twirling "bad guy" with a silly evil plan for world domination, and having Diane Festival point that out in the previous issue does not make it okay. The guy is a sleazy profiteer with little-to-no morals, sure - but he really just wants money, not to change or rule the world.
Alone, listless, breakfast table in an otherwise empty room.
-
- Is it Dee-no or Die-no? Dunno.
- Posts: 408
- Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 7:26 pm
- Valiant fan since: pre-Unity 90's
- Favorite character: Toyo Harada
- Favorite title: Harbinger (Dysart)
- Favorite writer: tough choice
- Favorite artist: ?
Re: Bloodshot USA #1 Discussion
What kind of cheap beer and cigarettes have you found? 4 bucks won't get you a pack of smokes and a beer anywhere near me...Psiot X wrote:I sacrificed some beer and cigarettes on the altar of Valiant comics and was rewarded with a copy of Bloodshot USA #1.
- Psiot X
- Is it Dee-no or Die-no? Dunno.
- Posts: 416
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 10:22 pm
- Valiant fan since: 2014
- Favorite character: Toyo Harada
- Favorite title: Harbinger
- Favorite writer: Josh Dysart
- Favorite artist: Rafa Sandoval
Re: Bloodshot USA #1 Discussion
Gold Coast (India) at the local family run grocery at about $3 a pack. Commanders (Phillip Morris) at the local smoke shop for a little more than that (like $3.50.) Bud light is running 8 16 oz cans for like $8 - 9 at the chain store grocery.slack wrote:What kind of cheap beer and cigarettes have you found? 4 bucks won't get you a pack of smokes and a beer anywhere near me...Psiot X wrote:I sacrificed some beer and cigarettes on the altar of Valiant comics and was rewarded with a copy of Bloodshot USA #1.
Edit I mainly smoke those cheap OHM miniature filtered cigars that are like $10 a carton. 20 in a pack. Like cigarettes with brown wrappers rather than white but worse for you.
- jmatt
- Mmm, I was drooling over Cooshie tonight.
- Posts: 11027
- Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:41 pm
- Location: Lehigh Valley, PA!
Re: Bloodshot USA #1 Discussion
And they could always say it was just more of what is already official police record, that whatever Kay did to Bloodshot to wind up infecting 6(?) people in CO eventually found its way to NYC.jeremycoe wrote:They already got off in Colorado, not that big of a stretch to think they could do it in NYC.
Josh is right in that they can't say they had nothing to do with the technology but they can say they had nothing to do with it spreading to other people.
We've seen the Bloodshots riddled and blown up... but this is a whole new level of dismemberment.greg wrote:Similar or worse than that already happened to all of them on the island, right?
- dino
- Nerd Boss
- Posts: 3879
- Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 12:14 am
- Valiant fan since: 1993
- Location: Los Angeles
Re: Bloodshot USA #1 Discussion
Glad you guys are enjoying the book. Lots of good stuff coming Especially for Kozol. Wanted to chime in on a topic that's at the heart of what makes Valiant so special. The comics have never shied away from moral ambiguity. It's a hallmark of the universe. No point in making Valiant comics without it. Jim Shooter and David Lapham set the bar for it at Valiant with Harada and Pete. We worked hard to honor that with our Harbinger. And have worked to extend that to everyone from characters previously just considered villains like Darque (most notably in Shadowman #0) to those just considered heroes like Aric (most notably in the first arc of Unity) to new characters like the Armor Hunters, and everyone in between. When we or anyone else lose sight of that it's time to stop making Valiant comics and move on. We've got no interest in making those kinds of books.Psiot X wrote:I sacrificed some beer and cigarettes on the altar of Valiant comics and was rewarded with a copy of Bloodshot USA #1. It was at this point I began to wonder if religion demands too much of me and If I should just resort to petty theft. But since I am not up to being in jail or comic hell I decided to live with it while whining.
For personal tastes I was alright with the art. It's good, I wasn't blown away by any big panel (I am a sucker for those) but I did really like the panels with GN GR. Bloodshot Nanites can't infect large AI machines like that right?
I loved the idea in play. I don't mean to be too nit-picky when I say it was cramped with dialogue bubbles as it isn't exactly a complaint more an observation on how it played with the art. It was a good read with a good action film ending to pick up with next issue.
When it comes to a Bloodshot comic I don't expect Imperium levels of plot thoughtfulness. I kind of expect a read like a big summer action film blockbuster so I was a bit more forgiving on the plot as it served its purpose just like those films typically do. In essence, setting the stage for a lot of explosions and some boobs if you are lucky. Typical spectacle, not so thought ridden stuff.grendeljd wrote:I thought the art team did a fantastic job with the visuals - loved the artwork!
The story completely falls apart around one gaping bad idea though.
Kozol's master plan is to introduce a virus that changes thousands of people into bloodshots. A signature piece of PRS technology. Then he's going to swoop in with a new piece of PRS tech to save the day, intending to make the company look like a hero to all & reap all the rewards... As if no-one would have any idea that they were behind the whole thing?!
Come on.
PRS is active on the world stage (Imperium - we may not be getting new issues of that story, but Harada should still be over in Somalia building his Foundation Zone). Their tech & operations may be top secret to the general public, but government agencies like MI6 & G.A.T.E. are aware of their existence & their tech. Diane Festival was able to find out about them despite the fact that they covered their tracks. Bloodshot was on the Unity team - they know who & what he is - they will know this virus is coming from PRS!! The whole plan is absolutely flawed from the start!!!
What makes it worse is that Kozol is suddenly actually acting like a 1-dimensional mustache-twirling "bad guy" with a silly evil plan for world domination, and having Diane Festival point that out in the previous issue does not make it okay. The guy is a sleazy profiteer with little-to-no morals, sure - but he really just wants money, not to change or rule the world.
Am I wrong in that expectation? I mean I get some times you want more but each book has its niche, its place.
I thought profit was an aside for Kozol at least in this book. I think he really just wanted to blow up a large area and bunch of people to see the world burn on a power trip while using profiteering on the damage as an excuse. Money is not his real motive. This is a bloody power trip with him playing puppet master, flipping switches to make buildings or people blow up, like some mad conductor of an orchestra.
Does it read out of character that way?
I might be reading too much into this but I am also reminded of that interview Dysart did. Where he talked about some editorial upset with making Peter look too much like a bad guy and Harada too much like a hero back in Harbinger / Imperium. Could some of the recent villain portrayals as a bit more stereotypical be related to the idea of keeping villains firmly villains and heroes strongly heroes to safe guard their spots in the Valiant Universe for storytelling long term?
- Psiot X
- Is it Dee-no or Die-no? Dunno.
- Posts: 416
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 10:22 pm
- Valiant fan since: 2014
- Favorite character: Toyo Harada
- Favorite title: Harbinger
- Favorite writer: Josh Dysart
- Favorite artist: Rafa Sandoval
Re: Bloodshot USA #1 Discussion
Thank you for taking the time to clear that up for us.dino wrote:Glad you guys are enjoying the book. Lots of good stuff coming Especially for Kozol. Wanted to chime in on a topic that's at the heart of what makes Valiant so special. The comics have never shied away from moral ambiguity. It's a hallmark of the universe. No point in making Valiant comics without it. Jim Shooter and David Lapham set the bar for it at Valiant with Harada and Pete. We worked hard to honor that with our Harbinger. And have worked to extend that to everyone from characters previously just considered villains like Darque (most notably in Shadowman #0) to those just considered heroes like Aric (most notably in the first arc of Unity) to new characters like the Armor Hunters, and everyone in between. When we or anyone else lose sight of that it's time to stop making Valiant comics and move on. We've got no interest in making those kinds of books.Psiot X wrote:I sacrificed some beer and cigarettes on the altar of Valiant comics and was rewarded with a copy of Bloodshot USA #1. It was at this point I began to wonder if religion demands too much of me and If I should just resort to petty theft. But since I am not up to being in jail or comic hell I decided to live with it while whining.
For personal tastes I was alright with the art. It's good, I wasn't blown away by any big panel (I am a sucker for those) but I did really like the panels with GN GR. Bloodshot Nanites can't infect large AI machines like that right?
I loved the idea in play. I don't mean to be too nit-picky when I say it was cramped with dialogue bubbles as it isn't exactly a complaint more an observation on how it played with the art. It was a good read with a good action film ending to pick up with next issue.
When it comes to a Bloodshot comic I don't expect Imperium levels of plot thoughtfulness. I kind of expect a read like a big summer action film blockbuster so I was a bit more forgiving on the plot as it served its purpose just like those films typically do. In essence, setting the stage for a lot of explosions and some boobs if you are lucky. Typical spectacle, not so thought ridden stuff.grendeljd wrote:I thought the art team did a fantastic job with the visuals - loved the artwork!
The story completely falls apart around one gaping bad idea though.
Kozol's master plan is to introduce a virus that changes thousands of people into bloodshots. A signature piece of PRS technology. Then he's going to swoop in with a new piece of PRS tech to save the day, intending to make the company look like a hero to all & reap all the rewards... As if no-one would have any idea that they were behind the whole thing?!
Come on.
PRS is active on the world stage (Imperium - we may not be getting new issues of that story, but Harada should still be over in Somalia building his Foundation Zone). Their tech & operations may be top secret to the general public, but government agencies like MI6 & G.A.T.E. are aware of their existence & their tech. Diane Festival was able to find out about them despite the fact that they covered their tracks. Bloodshot was on the Unity team - they know who & what he is - they will know this virus is coming from PRS!! The whole plan is absolutely flawed from the start!!!
What makes it worse is that Kozol is suddenly actually acting like a 1-dimensional mustache-twirling "bad guy" with a silly evil plan for world domination, and having Diane Festival point that out in the previous issue does not make it okay. The guy is a sleazy profiteer with little-to-no morals, sure - but he really just wants money, not to change or rule the world.
Am I wrong in that expectation? I mean I get some times you want more but each book has its niche, its place.
I thought profit was an aside for Kozol at least in this book. I think he really just wanted to blow up a large area and bunch of people to see the world burn on a power trip while using profiteering on the damage as an excuse. Money is not his real motive. This is a bloody power trip with him playing puppet master, flipping switches to make buildings or people blow up, like some mad conductor of an orchestra.
Does it read out of character that way?
I might be reading too much into this but I am also reminded of that interview Dysart did. Where he talked about some editorial upset with making Peter look too much like a bad guy and Harada too much like a hero back in Harbinger / Imperium. Could some of the recent villain portrayals as a bit more stereotypical be related to the idea of keeping villains firmly villains and heroes strongly heroes to safe guard their spots in the Valiant Universe for storytelling long term?

- grendeljd
- innerSPACE does whatever I tell them
- Posts: 8230
- Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:51 am
- Valiant fan since: 1991
- Favorite character: Aric
- Favorite title: Harbinger
- Location: On the 7.5th floor of LesterCorp, headed through the back door to John Malkovich's brain.
Re: Bloodshot USA #1 Discussion
Dino, you guys are definitely doing a great job of establishing & exploring that moral ambiguity with your universe of characters for the most part, and I applaud you all for that. It's been an element of what sets you guys apart from the rest of the 'superhero' herd of publishers. So much so, that while I read Valiant books to get my dose of a shared superhero universe, I don't really think of these characters as superheroes. They're a bit more real than that. And that rocks!dino wrote:Glad you guys are enjoying the book. Lots of good stuff coming Especially for Kozol. Wanted to chime in on a topic that's at the heart of what makes Valiant so special. The comics have never shied away from moral ambiguity. It's a hallmark of the universe. No point in making Valiant comics without it. Jim Shooter and David Lapham set the bar for it at Valiant with Harada and Pete. We worked hard to honor that with our Harbinger. And have worked to extend that to everyone from characters previously just considered villains like Darque (most notably in Shadowman #0) to those just considered heroes like Aric (most notably in the first arc of Unity) to new characters like the Armor Hunters, and everyone in between. When we or anyone else lose sight of that it's time to stop making Valiant comics and move on. We've got no interest in making those kinds of books.Psiot X wrote:I sacrificed some beer and cigarettes on the altar of Valiant comics and was rewarded with a copy of Bloodshot USA #1. It was at this point I began to wonder if religion demands too much of me and If I should just resort to petty theft. But since I am not up to being in jail or comic hell I decided to live with it while whining.
For personal tastes I was alright with the art. It's good, I wasn't blown away by any big panel (I am a sucker for those) but I did really like the panels with GN GR. Bloodshot Nanites can't infect large AI machines like that right?
I loved the idea in play. I don't mean to be too nit-picky when I say it was cramped with dialogue bubbles as it isn't exactly a complaint more an observation on how it played with the art. It was a good read with a good action film ending to pick up with next issue.
When it comes to a Bloodshot comic I don't expect Imperium levels of plot thoughtfulness. I kind of expect a read like a big summer action film blockbuster so I was a bit more forgiving on the plot as it served its purpose just like those films typically do. In essence, setting the stage for a lot of explosions and some boobs if you are lucky. Typical spectacle, not so thought ridden stuff.grendeljd wrote:I thought the art team did a fantastic job with the visuals - loved the artwork!
The story completely falls apart around one gaping bad idea though.
Kozol's master plan is to introduce a virus that changes thousands of people into bloodshots. A signature piece of PRS technology. Then he's going to swoop in with a new piece of PRS tech to save the day, intending to make the company look like a hero to all & reap all the rewards... As if no-one would have any idea that they were behind the whole thing?!
Come on.
PRS is active on the world stage (Imperium - we may not be getting new issues of that story, but Harada should still be over in Somalia building his Foundation Zone). Their tech & operations may be top secret to the general public, but government agencies like MI6 & G.A.T.E. are aware of their existence & their tech. Diane Festival was able to find out about them despite the fact that they covered their tracks. Bloodshot was on the Unity team - they know who & what he is - they will know this virus is coming from PRS!! The whole plan is absolutely flawed from the start!!!
What makes it worse is that Kozol is suddenly actually acting like a 1-dimensional mustache-twirling "bad guy" with a silly evil plan for world domination, and having Diane Festival point that out in the previous issue does not make it okay. The guy is a sleazy profiteer with little-to-no morals, sure - but he really just wants money, not to change or rule the world.
Am I wrong in that expectation? I mean I get some times you want more but each book has its niche, its place.
I thought profit was an aside for Kozol at least in this book. I think he really just wanted to blow up a large area and bunch of people to see the world burn on a power trip while using profiteering on the damage as an excuse. Money is not his real motive. This is a bloody power trip with him playing puppet master, flipping switches to make buildings or people blow up, like some mad conductor of an orchestra.
Does it read out of character that way?
I might be reading too much into this but I am also reminded of that interview Dysart did. Where he talked about some editorial upset with making Peter look too much like a bad guy and Harada too much like a hero back in Harbinger / Imperium. Could some of the recent villain portrayals as a bit more stereotypical be related to the idea of keeping villains firmly villains and heroes strongly heroes to safe guard their spots in the Valiant Universe for storytelling long term?
But that is why it stands out to me that Kozol's motivations seemed to take an unnatural turn toward the shallow end of the villain pool lately. And it's without any intermediate character development that really supplies any satisfying reasoning for it. If there's something else afoot with him that we haven't seen yet that will add to what we're seeing in BS:USA, then I'm looking forward to seeing what that will be.
I always strive to offer up a thoughtful & hopefully constructive criticism whenever I feel the urge to express my opinion publicly on something I didn't like or felt could have been better, whether that be here or on the OTV:VCR show. I'm not an entitled kind of fan who just gets angry when I don't like something - I prefer to be open minded & positive in general.
Personally, I like smart entertainment. Not necessarily just cerebral, complex or clever material, but stories that do their best to make sense naturally & not the kind that end up forcing a square plot peg into a round story hole to make something happen. You guys generally deliver that & when you do, that's what brings me in as a fan and keeps me here.
I like to draw stuff... http://grendeljd.deviantart.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
My wife likes to draw stuff too, and she is better than me! [I'm very proud of her]... https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sara-Dec ... ref=stream" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
My wife likes to draw stuff too, and she is better than me! [I'm very proud of her]... https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sara-Dec ... ref=stream" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- grendeljd
- innerSPACE does whatever I tell them
- Posts: 8230
- Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:51 am
- Valiant fan since: 1991
- Favorite character: Aric
- Favorite title: Harbinger
- Location: On the 7.5th floor of LesterCorp, headed through the back door to John Malkovich's brain.
Re: Bloodshot USA #1 Discussion
No dude, you're never wrong to have your own personal expectations about the entertainment you enjoy. Personally, I'm not a fan of straight up mindless action in general. I do think Bloodshot can be a kick-a$$ action book but also have a whip-smart sci-fi edge to it. All the ingredients are there for the mixing.Psiot X wrote:When it comes to a Bloodshot comic I don't expect Imperium levels of plot thoughtfulness. I kind of expect a read like a big summer action film blockbuster so I was a bit more forgiving on the plot as it served its purpose just like those films typically do. In essence, setting the stage for a lot of explosions and some boobs if you are lucky. Typical spectacle, not so thought ridden stuff.grendeljd wrote:What makes it worse is that Kozol is suddenly actually acting like a 1-dimensional mustache-twirling "bad guy" with a silly evil plan for world domination, and having Diane Festival point that out in the previous issue does not make it okay. The guy is a sleazy profiteer with little-to-no morals, sure - but he really just wants money, not to change or rule the world.[/b]
Am I wrong in that expectation? I mean I get some times you want more but each book has its niche, its place.
Yeah, man - it really does! At least to me it does.Psiot X wrote:I thought profit was an aside for Kozol at least in this book. I think he really just wanted to blow up a large area and bunch of people to see the world burn on a power trip while using profiteering on the damage as an excuse. Money is not his real motive. This is a bloody power trip with him playing puppet master, flipping switches to make buildings or people blow up, like some mad conductor of an orchestra.
Does it read out of character that way?
As I said in my previous post, I try not to get caught up in getting angry or entitled when my personal expectations aren't met - so I hope it's not coming across that way with regards to my feelings about Kozol's characterization. He doesn't have to strictly be a money-grubbing profiteer, but that's kind of what has been established to this point. All I'm saying is, if he's going to start going off on a (seemingly random) mad power trip, I'd like to see what caused him to go down that path.
I like to draw stuff... http://grendeljd.deviantart.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
My wife likes to draw stuff too, and she is better than me! [I'm very proud of her]... https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sara-Dec ... ref=stream" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
My wife likes to draw stuff too, and she is better than me! [I'm very proud of her]... https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sara-Dec ... ref=stream" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- grendeljd
- innerSPACE does whatever I tell them
- Posts: 8230
- Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:51 am
- Valiant fan since: 1991
- Favorite character: Aric
- Favorite title: Harbinger
- Location: On the 7.5th floor of LesterCorp, headed through the back door to John Malkovich's brain.
Re: Bloodshot USA #1 Discussion
Fair enough - but it feels like a little too much mental gymnastics on our own to arrive at a conclusion that only kind of fits the overall plot happening here.jmatt wrote:And they could always say it was just more of what is already official police record, that whatever Kay did to Bloodshot to wind up infecting 6(?) people in CO eventually found its way to NYC.jeremycoe wrote:They already got off in Colorado, not that big of a stretch to think they could do it in NYC.
Josh is right in that they can't say they had nothing to do with the technology but they can say they had nothing to do with it spreading to other people.
And to me, there is a huge distinction between what went down in Colorado with a few serial killer type murders and this extreme explosion of mass murder in NYC. There's going to be some seriously heightened awareness of this crisis, and the questions afterwards are going to be much more pointed & less forgiving of any PRS involvement. I just don't buy that they'll ever come out looking like heroes to anyone in the government at the end of this, so thinking that this will lead to sleazing a puppet figure into a position of power there seems very flawed from the outset to me.
And seriously, I know I keep harping on this stuff here, but I can forgive loose plot elements in a good entertaining comic. I'm happy to allow a suspension of disbelief to enjoy something fun & cool... but this stuff is standing out like a sore thumb for me & it's not helping me suspend that disbelief right now.
The comic is still entertaining otherwise. I loved seeing the Unity team show up to deal with the mess!
I like to draw stuff... http://grendeljd.deviantart.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
My wife likes to draw stuff too, and she is better than me! [I'm very proud of her]... https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sara-Dec ... ref=stream" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
My wife likes to draw stuff too, and she is better than me! [I'm very proud of her]... https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sara-Dec ... ref=stream" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- jmatt
- Mmm, I was drooling over Cooshie tonight.
- Posts: 11027
- Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:41 pm
- Location: Lehigh Valley, PA!
Re: Bloodshot USA #1 Discussion
Oh, I agree completely. We kind of backfit a little narrative into explaining how they might pull this off, but you are 100% correct: When the smoke clears, how in the world will PRS not take the full blame for what's going on?grendeljd wrote:Fair enough - but it feels like a little too much mental gymnastics on our own to arrive at a conclusion that only kind of fits the overall plot happening here.
But for me, personally, I'm not put off on why Kozol might attempt something like this. He's a morally bankrupt person that realized he could parlay what he has into something more. That's not such a stretch of the imagination, imo.
- hawkeyeps
- Everybody gets some "little extras"
- Posts: 3020
- Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:02 pm
- Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Re: Bloodshot USA #1 Discussion
Nope that would be me
I always strive to offer up a thoughtful & hopefully constructive criticism whenever I feel the urge to express my opinion publicly on something I didn't like or felt could have been better, whether that be here or on the OTV:VCR show. I'm not an entitled kind of fan who just gets angry when I don't like something - I prefer to be open minded & positive in general.

- Psiot X
- Is it Dee-no or Die-no? Dunno.
- Posts: 416
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 10:22 pm
- Valiant fan since: 2014
- Favorite character: Toyo Harada
- Favorite title: Harbinger
- Favorite writer: Josh Dysart
- Favorite artist: Rafa Sandoval
Re: Bloodshot USA #1 Discussion
Like in real life, they will just pay media honchos to focus on the Russian bloodshot guy and use it as evidence to blame Putin. Then they will suddenly uncover some sexy emails with tasty state secrets to tease the public with so we forget about the bloody mess up north while nothing ever comes of it. Back to normal and business as usual in two weeks.jmatt wrote:Oh, I agree completely. We kind of backfit a little narrative into explaining how they might pull this off, but you are 100% correct: When the smoke clears, how in the world will PRS not take the full blame for what's going on?grendeljd wrote:Fair enough - but it feels like a little too much mental gymnastics on our own to arrive at a conclusion that only kind of fits the overall plot happening here.
But for me, personally, I'm not put off on why Kozol might attempt something like this. He's a morally bankrupt person that realized he could parlay what he has into something more. That's not such a stretch of the imagination, imo.
- grendeljd
- innerSPACE does whatever I tell them
- Posts: 8230
- Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:51 am
- Valiant fan since: 1991
- Favorite character: Aric
- Favorite title: Harbinger
- Location: On the 7.5th floor of LesterCorp, headed through the back door to John Malkovich's brain.
Re: Bloodshot USA #1 Discussion
Dude, you may get angry when you don't like something, but you are not acting entitled in my mind. Big difference.hawkeyeps wrote:Nope that would be me
I always strive to offer up a thoughtful & hopefully constructive criticism whenever I feel the urge to express my opinion publicly on something I didn't like or felt could have been better, whether that be here or on the OTV:VCR show. I'm not an entitled kind of fan who just gets angry when I don't like something - I prefer to be open minded & positive in general.
I like to draw stuff... http://grendeljd.deviantart.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
My wife likes to draw stuff too, and she is better than me! [I'm very proud of her]... https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sara-Dec ... ref=stream" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
My wife likes to draw stuff too, and she is better than me! [I'm very proud of her]... https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sara-Dec ... ref=stream" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- Sven the Returned
- Nanite-powered posting
- Posts: 1484
- Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:37 am
- Valiant fan since: 2013
- Favorite character: Rai
- Favorite title: X-O Manowar
- Favorite writer: V-Diddy
- Favorite artist: Clayton Crain
Re: Bloodshot USA #1 Discussion
Someone as narcissistic as Trump would make a good puppet... Nope.
- Dallow Spicer1
- Clinkin' bottles with Aram
- Posts: 2617
- Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:19 am
- Valiant fan since: Mid 90's
- Favorite character: X-O
- Favorite title: X-O
- Favorite writer: V-Ditti & Dysart
- Favorite artist: Larosa
- Location: United Kingdom
Re: Bloodshot USA #1 Discussion
I enjoyed this issue, although I also agree that the plot by Kozol is a little OTT!
Nice twist to have Blood-jak at the end but cutting Bloodshot's head off....if that doesn't kill him then what will???
Slightly concerned that the characters are a little over powered, Bloodshot can re old his face to look like someone else
and before was virtually indestructible ...but now he's had his head cut off!?! Does he have any threats??
In a related note, whilst I'm very excited to see the new direction for XO, I'm slightly dubious about the extra universal knowledge he acquired at the end of the run...insanely powerful armour and now unlimited knowledge of the universe...where are the threats coming from?
All that said, I do think Bloodshot Reborn has been a very consistently entertaining book and Lemire has created the best Bloodshot book there's been during his run.
Braithwaite's art is enjoyable albeit a step down from La Rosa, still a good choice.
4/5
Nice twist to have Blood-jak at the end but cutting Bloodshot's head off....if that doesn't kill him then what will???

Slightly concerned that the characters are a little over powered, Bloodshot can re old his face to look like someone else

In a related note, whilst I'm very excited to see the new direction for XO, I'm slightly dubious about the extra universal knowledge he acquired at the end of the run...insanely powerful armour and now unlimited knowledge of the universe...where are the threats coming from?
All that said, I do think Bloodshot Reborn has been a very consistently entertaining book and Lemire has created the best Bloodshot book there's been during his run.
Braithwaite's art is enjoyable albeit a step down from La Rosa, still a good choice.
4/5
