Imperium #8

[Brapbrap]

that Harada monologue at the end tho

[agent_graves]

Another well written gem by Dysart, he has a good grasp on Divinity's character, he filled in quit a few blanks left by Kind-t, pertaining to Divinity's power set, mind state, and weakness, or lack thereof. Nice character development over the span of just two issue's.

Angela's bugged out, in a hilariously good way.

Kindness, just may be Sunlight on Snow's weakness...

Harada, just won't let it go, he wants to be friends with Divinity, so bad.

That Divinity action figure at the end, I gotta have it, I hope Valiant can use some of that influx of cash, to get those mass produced, or maybe Dino will auction off his. :

[pixierosa]

I loved what Dysart did with the character development in this book. Big reveals to us and the characters themselves.

Loving this series. And I need a plushie of Sunlight on Snow to hug, especially after this book.

[ChiptheRipper]

This was excellent. Dysart handled a Divinity/Harada confrontation in the best possible manner, with neither side having to look 'weaker'. Also, I think this is the first time we've actually seen Divinity get mad, and it was pretty intense Makes me excited for Divinity II.

[hunter_peterson]

A physical god versus a mental one? Awesome, and perfectly executed. The setup for the next arc was great too- and may lead to us knowing if Vine can be psiots- so that was an added bonus. Loved everything about this.

[BugsySig]

This issue poses an interesting question in relation to time travel as discussed in Ivar, Timewalker...Did Harada change history when he chose not to pursue Divinity?

Discuss.

[ChiptheRipper]

This issue poses an interesting question in relation to time travel as discussed in Ivar, Timewalker...Did Harada change history when he chose not to pursue Divinity?

Discuss.

But did Harada really choose not to pursue Divinity, or has he just decided not to pursue Divinity yet? Harada definitely seems the type to hold a grudge, I wouldn't be surprised if this 'defeat' is simply him biding his time until he can figure out how to control or eliminate Divinity for good.

[BugsySig]

This issue poses an interesting question in relation to time travel as discussed in Ivar, Timewalker...Did Harada change history when he chose not to pursue Divinity?

Discuss.

But did Harada really choose not to pursue Divinity, or has he just decided not to pursue Divinity yet? Harada definitely seems the type to hold a grudge, I wouldn't be surprised if this 'defeat' is simply him biding his time until he can figure out how to control or eliminate Divinity for good.

I agree. Even Divinity said he could not change his decision, but he could change when he came to it. However, isn't even changing the time of the decision going to effect history?

[hunter_peterson]

This issue poses an interesting question in relation to time travel as discussed in Ivar, Timewalker...Did Harada change history when he chose not to pursue Divinity?

Discuss.

But did Harada really choose not to pursue Divinity, or has he just decided not to pursue Divinity yet? Harada definitely seems the type to hold a grudge, I wouldn't be surprised if this 'defeat' is simply him biding his time until he can figure out how to control or eliminate Divinity for good.

I agree. Even Divinity said he could not change his decision, but he could change when he came to it. However, isn't even changing the time of the decision going to effect history?

One would think so. But then, Divinity doesn't seem to exactly understand the rules he's breaking here, so it's unclear.

[String]

This issue poses an interesting question in relation to time travel as discussed in Ivar, Timewalker...Did Harada change history when he chose not to pursue Divinity?

Discuss.

But did Harada really choose not to pursue Divinity, or has he just decided not to pursue Divinity yet? Harada definitely seems the type to hold a grudge, I wouldn't be surprised if this 'defeat' is simply him biding his time until he can figure out how to control or eliminate Divinity for good.

I agree. Even Divinity said he could not change his decision, but he could change when he came to it. However, isn't even changing the time of the decision going to effect history?

One would think so. But then, Divinity doesn't seem to exactly understand the rules he's breaking here, so it's unclear.

Unless Divinity is able to somehow circumvent the rules.

Consider this:

I have a choice today, whether or not to go to the grocery store to buy drinks.

If I go today, then I have bought the drinks.
If I wait and go tomorrow, then I will still have bought the drinks.

The outcome is the same yet the timing of the decision is different.

The same could apply here. Harada could have gone after Divinity and the events we witnessed will have occurred. Yet if Harada decides to go after Divinity next week, won't the same events still play out as before? The outcome is the same yet the timing of the decision is different.

As long as those events still play out the same as we have seen when Harada does finally decide to go after Divinity, then I don't think Harada altering the timing of his decision changes anything significant. Unless, as mentioned above, the scope of Divinity's powers somehow excludes him from the normal rules of space/time.

Oh, awesome issue by the way. Sunlight-On-Snow continues to impress and very interested to see what is coming next.

[BugsySig]

This issue poses an interesting question in relation to time travel as discussed in Ivar, Timewalker...Did Harada change history when he chose not to pursue Divinity?

Discuss.

But did Harada really choose not to pursue Divinity, or has he just decided not to pursue Divinity yet? Harada definitely seems the type to hold a grudge, I wouldn't be surprised if this 'defeat' is simply him biding his time until he can figure out how to control or eliminate Divinity for good.

I agree. Even Divinity said he could not change his decision, but he could change when he came to it. However, isn't even changing the time of the decision going to effect history?

One would think so. But then, Divinity doesn't seem to exactly understand the rules he's breaking here, so it's unclear.

Unless Divinity is able to somehow circumvent the rules.

Consider this:

I have a choice today, whether or not to go to the grocery store to buy drinks.

If I go today, then I have bought the drinks.
If I wait and go tomorrow, then I will still have bought the drinks.

The outcome is the same yet the timing of the decision is different.

The same could apply here. Harada could have gone after Divinity and the events we witnessed will have occurred. Yet if Harada decides to go after Divinity next week, won't the same events still play out as before? The outcome is the same yet the timing of the decision is different.

As long as those events still play out the same as we have seen when Harada does finally decide to go after Divinity, then I don't think Harada altering the timing of his decision changes anything significant. Unless, as mentioned above, the scope of Divinity's powers somehow excludes him from the normal rules of space/time.

Oh, awesome issue by the way. Sunlight-On-Snow continues to impress and very interested to see what is coming next.

Well I would argue if you were to change your mind and not buy drinks today, and thereby avoid a car accident which would have killed you, then that is a much different outcome than simply not having drinks in your fridge for another day.

Consider these two theories as well....

1) Ivar was quoted as saying to Aram that one cannot change their past. He never said anything about not being able to change their future. So by changing his decision at the time, Harada has changed only his future and not his past (perhaps this is also why Ivar believes he can save Neela. Or rather, help her save herself.)

2) I'd have to go back to the previous issue, but did we ever actually see Harada make the decision to go after Divinity immediately following the briefing on the ship? What if Divinity's manipulation was always going to lead Harada to say "No"? At least for now. Then eventually he changes his mind and goes after him. Dysart was playing around with time so much in the story, that the time between events is not entirely clear.

[ChiptheRipper]

I'd have to go back to the previous issue, but did we ever actually see Harada make the decision to go after Divinity immediately following the briefing on the ship? What if Divinity's manipulation was always going to lead Harada to say "No"? At least for now. Then eventually he changes his mind and goes after him. Dysart was playing around with time so much in the story, that the time between events is not entirely clear.

That's a good point, I don't think we can confirm that the mission to free Divinity directly followed the PRS sub. Harada could always have said no at that point, and the attempt to recruit Divinity might not take place for several missions or even several years into the future. Maybe it hasn't happened yet, and will play into Divinity II somehow? Although I guess if any of Harada's team dies (like a disillusioned former terrorist who realizes things probably won't end well for him? ) , that would be proof that the Divinity mission immediately followed the sub since I believe they were all seen there.

[Brapbrap]

Imperium #8:

Imperium #7:
Look at the people, this is the exact same meeting only moments later.
Imperium #8:


I think this is all continuous, there's no changing history. The chronology is
Harada finishes up the stuff on the PRS submarine -> the first picture i posted -> the second picture (and the rest of that scene because I didn't post the whole scene) -> the third picture i posted

obviously it looks a bit weird from Harada's point of view but if you ignore the thought boxes and just read the conversation there is absolutely no alternate realities or changing things going on.

[String]

Can you change the future though?

Consider this:

In Ivar #1, fleeing through time, Ivar and Neela arrive at the Battle of Trafalgar. Ivar ends up shooting Lord Nelson, killing him while telling him, "Sorry, fate of the universe etc, etc,". Now Ivar didn't alter the past but did he alter Nelson's future? If Ivar wasn't there, would Nelson still have been killed regardless?

Same thing with Neela. She saw her future self kill Ivar. So can she alter her future to avoid becoming that version of herself and thus avoid killing Ivar? Or is she destined to become that regardless?

So are we talking about potential futures (Harada, through his visions, is able to better prepare for Divinity's counterattacks when he does go after him. Neela, warned of her future, is able to alter events accordingly)

or

fixed points in time (the same result would occur regardless of changes ie Harada and his team fail against Divinity despite any altered preparations by Harada, Neela becomes Future Neela and eventually kills Ivar despite her already witnessing the event)?

Damn it, Ivar and Imperium are the most complex, thought-provoking comics that I'm reading at the moment.

[jmatt]

That just felt like I read three comics. How does he do it? How does Dysart pack so much magic into his books?

Imperium is right up there with the best books I've ever enjoyed. This is Steel Nation good. VH1 Unity good.

[Dallow Spicer1]

Dysart delivers again! Very interesting inter-play between Divinity and Harada, looks like Divinity wins this one!

The best moment of the book was the epilogue...which no one predicted a) Hard Corps girl was still alive and b) SHE'S A VINE!!! . Thankfully I'd already read XO #40 so this revelation had maximum impact. Really looking forward to seeing how this plays out.

4.75/5 - brilliant issue

[Phoenix8008]

Dysart delivers again! Very interesting inter-play between Divinity and Harada, looks like Divinity wins this one!

The best moment of the book was the epilogue...which no one predicted a) Hard Corps girl was still alive and b) SHE'S A VINE!!! . Thankfully I'd already read XO #40 so this revelation had maximum impact. Really looking forward to seeing how this plays out.

4.75/5 - brilliant issue

Yep, I was very happy to have read them in that order as well. It definitely added to the impact of the story. So glad they put these both out during the same week!

[Watchtower]

Imperium #8:

Imperium #7:
Look at the people, this is the exact same meeting only moments later.
Imperium #8:


I think this is all continuous, there's no changing history. The chronology is
Harada finishes up the stuff on the PRS submarine -> the first picture i posted -> the second picture (and the rest of that scene because I didn't post the whole scene) -> the third picture i posted

obviously it looks a bit weird from Harada's point of view but if you ignore the thought boxes and just read the conversation there is absolutely no alternate realities or changing things going on.

That's my thought as well. To clarify: Divinity isn't screwing with time, so much as he's screwing with Harada's perception of time, much like what he did to Unity. The entire time Harada's engaged in this chrono-battle with Divinity he's effectively frozen in that single instant in the briefing room.

Through the first arc I admittedly had a bit of a hard time keeping track of everything, but this arc has just been a hit out of the park. Divinity's perfectly preserved in the transfer from Kindt to Dysart and is not only developed further but, much like Solar before him, has been given a reasonable and deadly weakness: his own human soul. Harada meanwhile continues to prove he is worth the abundance of focus he's been given, and delivers an excellent speech at the end accepting his role as the villain. And the very end was great, with the Vine plantings coming in just as effectively as they did in XO's current Exodus arc. Overall Dysart continues to be one of the best in the industry right now, and a powerful force under Valiant's growing machine.

[Spylocke]

Perhaps I shouldn't have read this right after Ivar, Timewalker 9. I think there's only so much messing with time my mind can take.
I'm looking forward to seeing Gravedog use his powers since this is the closest thing I have to a H.A.R.D. Corps series right now. I loved how Sunlight On Snow's act of mercy was in line with Harada's philosophy of being a selfless villain rather than a selfish hero.

Also, Divinity made Harada swear. I don't think even Pete *SQUEE* him off that much.

[grendeljd]

Loved this issue, the whole Divinty crossover has been a stellar story. The epic theme of dealing with 'something greater than yourself' as per the issue title was awesome, I liked seeing that echoed in other characters such as Kozol & Gravedog.

Very interesting to see the personal growth of Harada after his experience as contrasted with the absolute mis-interpretation of the situation by Kozol & his marked lack of personal growth after he survives his ordeal. Loved that last monologue by Harada.

[grendeljd]

I'm behind on sharing links to the show, but if anyone would like to hear our OTV:VCR podcast discussing/reviewing this issue (& XO Manowar #40), please follow the link;

http://onlythevaliant.com/episodes/vcr30/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks to any who listen in

[ShadowTuga]

This is Valiant's best ongoing right now. What to say? Mindblowing (pun intended). Harada may have a chance against Divinity in the future, this is certainly not over in prayers for the divine one to do something. I bet that he will make a move against Toyo when Mr. Psiot does something not-that-humanitarian lke trying to steal X-O's armor.
I could read an entire mini of Harada vs Divinity by JD, just each one trying to win by the most crazy concept possible.
The finale with the Corp-Vine undercover had me wanting to read the Vine Imperative ASAP. Awesome cliff hanger.
What a month for Valiant.

[QUARTZ]

I agree this is the best Valiant title out right now. Such brilliant sci-fi superhero stuff thrown in there and handled with care, not to mention how fleshed out the characters seem to be. Such an interesting book. I love it.

[jeremycoe]

I just want to read a Sunlight on Snow ongoing. He might be my favorite character in all of comics right now.

[jmatt]

I just want to read a Sunlight on Snow ongoing. He might be my favorite character in all of comics right now.

We probably won't get that, but a Sunlight on Snow #0 would be very cool. We really don't know much about his origin.