What is it worth? (Vote Here)

DirtbagSailor · Post by **DirtbagSailor** » Fri Aug 07, 2015 4:16 pm

Received a few AMAZING slabs from CGC this week.

2x Eternal Warrior #1 Gold Flat CGC 9.8 Signature Series (Shooter)
2x Solar Man of the Atom #10 CGC 9.8 Signature Series (Shooter)
2x Eternal Warrior #4 CGC 9.8 Signature Series (Shooter)

Now, I plan to sell one of EACH to cover some recent and future expenses; however, I'm curious as to what YOU think a fair price is for any of these slabs.

Bills bills bills

ckb · Post by **ckb** » Fri Aug 07, 2015 4:31 pm

Signed books aren't my thing so I will pretend they are unsigned. To me they are worth more unsigned, but the market does not agree with me on that.

On EW 4 and Solar 10, lots of recent sales data, no need to comment on those.

That gold flat though... I think the last one sold on the boards for $600+? Maybe $750 now? GPA is useless because of the mislabeling.

FormerReader · Post by **FormerReader** » Fri Aug 07, 2015 5:47 pm

CKB's guess is probably as good as anyone on these boards. $750 doesn't seem to unreasonable for the EW Gold Flat. Those are 3 really nice books. Shame you have to sell them.

geocarr · Post by **geocarr** » Fri Aug 07, 2015 5:55 pm

How about tree-fiddy? (anybody remember South Park?)

DirtbagSailor · Post by **DirtbagSailor** » Fri Aug 07, 2015 6:00 pm

geocarr wrote:How about tree-fiddy? (anybody remember South Park?)

I do.

"There's got to be a morning after. If we can hold on through the night. We have a chance to find the sunshine..."

drmirage · Post by **drmirage** » Fri Aug 07, 2015 6:56 pm

Price is relative on how much someone is willing to pay and who the signer is.

nycjadie · Post by **nycjadie** » Fri Aug 07, 2015 8:36 pm

The right person would likely pay $1200 for that Solar book, if not more. A 9.8 blue is between $400-500 right now.

The EW 4 is a $240ish book judging by recent auctions, but I think that was a bit low on that one.

The EW Gold? I'd probably hazard a bit higher than CKB.

I'm with CKB on SS books to a degree. I like then virgin gem mint in 9.8, but I appreciate SS books when they are similarly priced, and I pick them up from time to time. For a special key, like these, I see them as a different Beast, but also a desirable one.

BloodShot · Post by **BloodShot** » Fri Aug 07, 2015 8:39 pm

Jesse,

As you know, like Chris (ckb), autographs/sigs on books just ain't my jam, and because of that I definitely have a different take on how they value out on 9.8 slabs. IMNSHO, they often detract from the book rather than enhance it. There are most definitely exceptions to that rule, and a super-rare sig by someone like BWS would most definitely enhance (visually and financially) the worth of said slab.

In the interest of not bursting anyone's bubble, and to take NOTHING away from the beauty of these books since they're still all 9.8's, I shot you a very detailed PM about the potential value on these. No doubt it'll be one of those truly rare times we actually disagree about Valiant books, but I does try to keeps it real, so when you can, LMK what you think.

-Jay

BloodShot · Post by **BloodShot** » Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:01 pm

nycjadie wrote:The right person would likely pay $1200 for that Solar book, if not more. A 9.8 blue is between $400-500 right now.

So, you're saying you honestly believe that a common-as-white-paint Shooter sig should somehow double (or triple) the value of a 9.8 Solar #10

?!

Seriously

??

Sorry, but that's just straight up kray-kray

...

nycjadie · Post by **nycjadie** » Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:33 pm

I've found that SS books sell for an average of 1 to 2.5x the price of a blue label. For key desirable books, it's closer to the 2.5x price. SS books are not my bag either, but I do buy them if they are 1x the price and I like it.

Here are a couple 2X for not so hot books. You just never know.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/X-O-MANOWAR-1-2 ... 4aec435cef" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Magnus-Robot-Fi ... 25a7f7277b" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tony_H · Post by **Tony_H** » Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:40 pm

You guys are the experts, and I'm not a regular slab buyer, but that signed EW #1 flat gold certainly seems unique and, frankly, historic. I've been buying raw comics since the 1970s and I'd think it'd command a nice price from a person in a position to pay what it's objectively worth. If I didn't have other debts dogging me I'd be sending a PM to DBS right now.

DirtbagSailor · Post by **DirtbagSailor** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 2:55 am

The Harby #1 CGC 9.8's are selling for about $800; the 9.8 SS's are selling for $1,500 recently (with sales as high as $2,500 in the past few years).

NONE sold for less than $1,100 (at the Harby #1 low point).

In 2013, the SMOTA #10 CGC 9.8 SS sold for $2,250, and a EW#1GF CGC 9.8 SS has never been sold as none existed (to my knowledge).

I sold a double signed CGC 9.8 SS New Mutants 98 for double what unsigned copies were selling for at the time (and that auction was bunk anyhow since two of the top bidders backed out right before the end; other copies at that time were pushing three times the value). I'm not saying that 300% is normal, but SS books almost always sell for more because they cost more (signer fees, convention fees, grading fees, certification fees) to create in the first place; and of course there is relative scarcity.

So there have been 3 Signature Series 9.8 copies of SMOTA #10 in the past 25 years out of a print run of 55,000 books with an already low 13% success rate in that grade out of 448 submissions (nearly 400 of which failed to cut 9.8).

Of course the odds are much worse with Eternal Warrior #1 Gold Flat. While the census is useless on this due to CGC mislabeling the slabs, with only 14 CGC 9.8's that is about a 20% success rate in that grade; but with only about 1/5th of the number or submission that SMOTA #10 has. EW#1GF's run about $100 raw, and are not super common to begin with.

So, IS $750 REALLY a stretch for either of these books? Is $1,000? (EDIT: I'm clearly NOT referring to the EW #4, which is in a different category)

As a buyer primarily, I'd pay that so fast that it would leave skid marks.

DirtbagSailor · Post by **DirtbagSailor** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 6:22 am

Out of curiosity, has ANYONE here ever actually seen an EW #1 Gold-Flat CGC 9.8 SS before... ...ever?

Earlier this year I conducted research for several weeks when writing my article Top 10 Most Valuable Valiant Comics and found no sales history/data, no census data, and no photos or posts anywhere. I understand the census issues, but figure someone might know something.

I plan to do an UPDATED article later this year (a LOT has happened in the Valiant world since that time lol!) but at the time, this is what it looked like:

1. Bloodshot #0 (Platinum Error) CGC 9.8
2. Solar Man of the Atom #10 (1st Print) CGC 9.8 SS
3. Harbinger #1 (w/ coupon) CGC 9.8 SS
4. Bloodshot #1 (Pink Error) CGC 9.6
5. Rai #0 CGC 10
6. Unity #1 CGC 10
7. Unity #0 (Red Variant) CGC 9.9
8. Unity #1 (Golden Ticket) CGC 9.6, 9.6, & 9.4
9. Shadowman #1 CGC 9.9
10. Acclaim Heroes CGC 9.8

CLEARLY this list has changed in the past 6 months, but most of this was actual sales data, mixed with owner discussion and hypothetical expected/estimated market prices.

I have to think that perhaps an A&A #0 (Gold) CGC 9.8 SS (only 1 copy exists) or a Eternal Warrior #1 (Gold Flat) CGC 9.8 SS might have potential to make this list (IF sold, which we have no evidence that they ever have).

NOTE: SMOTA #3 (Gold Test), SMOTA #5 (Gold Test), Secrets of the Valiant Universe #1 (Wizard Special) CGC 9.8, Divinity #1 (LaRosa 1:40) CBCS 9.9, CEAR CGC 9.8, and possibly Shadowman #16 Vol 2 CGC 9.4 have the potential to be listed as well, which is why I will likely expand to a Top 25 list.

valiantking · Post by **valiantking** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 9:07 am

In my honest opinion I think the signature series at least doubles the book as Jim shooter is a legend in the valiant world as well as bob Layton. For people who slabbed they know how difficult it is to get a 9.8. Especially on the solor 10. There are probably less than 30 in the world in the past 20 years. And probably hundreds of 9.6. To have the signature authenticated and you know it is the real signature of a living legend greatly increases the value.

As in any collectible such a baseball cards. A 1982 Cal Ripken rookie card goes for about 50 bucks ungraded but a certified authenticated bgs 9 or above signed and authenticated Cal Ripken goes for well over 250.

Look how much Babe Ruth cards go for authenticated autograph. More than 5k +

Or if you have a authenticated George Washington or Abraham Lincoln autograph. Sorry to say but when Stan lee passes (over 90 yrs old), his authenticated autograph comics and cards will go up for sure.

jasont215 · Post by **jasont215** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:43 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngKT3MIfwpo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Dr Noel · Post by **Dr Noel** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 11:40 am

That's a nice set of slabs, DBS. Signature series isn't my thing so I can't hazard a guess. Good luck though

Ricomortis · Post by **Ricomortis** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 12:59 pm

DirtbagSailor wrote:Out of curiosity, has ANYONE here ever actually seen an EW #1 Gold-Flat CGC 9.8 SS before... ...ever?

Earlier this year I conducted research for several weeks when writing my article Top 10 Most Valuable Valiant Comics and found no sales history/data, no census data, and no photos or posts anywhere. I understand the census issues, but figure someone might know something.

I plan to do an UPDATED article later this year (a LOT has happened in the Valiant world since that time lol!) but at the time, this is what it looked like:

1. Bloodshot #1 (Platinum Error) CGC 9.8
2. Solar Man of the Atom #10 (1st Print) CGC 9.8 SS
3. Harbinger #1 (w/ coupon) CGC 9.8 SS
4. Bloodshot #1 (Pink Error) CGC 9.6
5. Rai #0 CGC 10
6. Unity #1 CGC 10
7. Unity #0 (Red Variant) CGC 9.9
8. Unity #1 (Golden Ticket) CGC 9.6, 9.6, & 9.4
9. Shadowman #1 CGC 9.9
10. Acclaim Heroes CGC 9.8

CLEARLY this list has changed in the past 6 months, but most of this was actual sales data, mixed with owner discussion and hypothetical expected/estimated market prices.

I have to think that perhaps an A&A #0 (Gold) CGC 9.8 SS (only 1 copy exists) or a Eternal Warrior #1 (Gold Flat) CGC 9.8 SS might have potential to make this list (IF sold, which we have no evidence that they ever have).

NOTE: SMOTA #3 (Gold Test), SMOTA #5 (Gold Test), Secrets of the Valiant Universe #1 (Wizard Special) CGC 9.8, Divinity #1 (LaRosa 1:40) CBCS 9.9, CEAR CGC 9.8, and possibly Shadowman #16 Vol 2 CGC 9.4 have the potential to be listed as well, which is why I will likely expand to a Top 25 list.

Uhhh... Where would a Magnus 0 or the Shadowman 0 CGC 9.9 rank on the list?

DirtbagSailor · Post by **DirtbagSailor** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 1:47 pm

Ricomortis wrote:
I plan to do an UPDATED article later this year (a LOT has happened in the Valiant world since that time lol!) but at the time, this is what it looked like:

1. Bloodshot #0 (Platinum Error) CGC 9.8
2. Solar Man of the Atom #10 (1st Print) CGC 9.8 SS
3. Harbinger #1 (w/ coupon) CGC 9.8 SS
4. Bloodshot #1 (Pink Error) CGC 9.6
5. Rai #0 CGC 10
6. Unity #1 CGC 10
7. Unity #0 (Red Variant) CGC 9.9
8. Unity #1 (Golden Ticket) CGC 9.6, 9.6, & 9.4
9. Shadowman #1 CGC 9.9
10. Acclaim Heroes CGC 9.8

CLEARLY this list has changed in the past 6 months, but most of this was actual sales data, mixed with owner discussion and hypothetical expected/estimated market prices.
Uhhh... Where would a Magnus 0 or the Shadowman 0 CGC 9.9 rank on the list?

Not sure about the Shadowman #0 CGC 9.9 (or the X-O Manowar #0 CGC 10) but I know the MRF #0 CGC 9.9 has been brought up since this list was created. I recall it being similar to the Acclaim Heroes #1 CGC 9.8 price-wise.

Ramses818 · Post by **Ramses818** » Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:46 am

Hi everybody sorry for being late to this discussion as I think it is very important/interesting. signature series books as general rule go for at least 2 to 3 times the standard CGC book. This is all course just relative to my experiences, which go beyond the usual eBay auction. there are many factors that contribute to this, just a few being of course what creator signed it and the scarcity of the book. Valiant has a very special place in that it does not have the longevity of collecting as a Marvel or DC. And the company was sold to acclaim and then of course went out of business, a lot of stores trying to get rid of these books very quickly. What was once $120 book was suddenly available for $10. Needless to say a lot of books were damaged in these transactions. The remaining books I think have a higher value due to this issue. And yes while I agree shooter and Layton have signed a lot of books, they have not signed a lot of signature series books. What makes this even rarer is the people that do have 9.8 books are not cracking them open to get signed therefore reducing the number of available books in this grade even further. This is in no way comparable to say, getting a Stan Lee or Jim Lee signature series book. I am a very staunch supporter of this company and believe very strongly in its future success, and with that particular outlook I think these books can reasonably go for considerably more. The simple fact is that these books just don't exist in that grade with these certifications, and the likelihood of a mass of them coming out is very slim. I know there are great many collectors on here that dislike CGC SS books, but there are many collectors who love them (as is evidenced by the growing number of certified signed copies showing up) that don't yet collect Valiant. As the company expands its fan base again the number of people want these books will significantly increase while of course the supply will only dwindle. And I know some people would like to point out that Valiant is a small company, and while that is true look what they have done in just three short years. If that is truly a microcosm of what is to come then I think the speculators could be making a killing akin to Marvel silver age books from 20 years ago. Of course Time will tell if I am correct, and I am by no means an expert, but after collecting for over 30 years I do feel strongly that I am correct in that assertion. I don't mean to belittle anyone else's opinion on this nor am I trying to spark a angry debate, I just wanted to give my opinion based on my experience.

valiantking · Post by **valiantking** » Sun Aug 09, 2015 6:54 am

Well said

DirtbagSailor · Post by **DirtbagSailor** » Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:39 pm

Well, one of these questions has been answered:

I posted 1x copy of Eternal Warrior #1 Gold Flat CGC 9.8 SS today in my for sale thread, and it sold for $1,000 almost immediately.

nycjadie · Post by **nycjadie** » Sun Aug 09, 2015 2:08 pm

ckb · Post by **ckb** » Sun Aug 09, 2015 4:33 pm

DirtbagSailor wrote:The Harby #1 CGC 9.8's are selling for about $800; the 9.8 SS's are selling for $1,500 recently (with sales as high as $2,500 in the past few years).

NONE sold for less than $1,100 (at the Harby #1 low point).

In 2013, the SMOTA #10 CGC 9.8 SS sold for $2,250, and a EW#1GF CGC 9.8 SS has never been sold as none existed (to my knowledge).

I sold a double signed CGC 9.8 SS New Mutants 98 for double what unsigned copies were selling for at the time (and that auction was bunk anyhow since two of the top bidders backed out right before the end; other copies at that time were pushing three times the value). I'm not saying that 300% is normal, but SS books almost always sell for more because they cost more (signer fees, convention fees, grading fees, certification fees) to create in the first place; and of course there is relative scarcity.

So there have been 3 Signature Series 9.8 copies of SMOTA #10 in the past 25 years out of a print run of 55,000 books with an already low 13% success rate in that grade out of 448 submissions (nearly 400 of which failed to cut 9.8).

Of course the odds are much worse with Eternal Warrior #1 Gold Flat. While the census is useless on this due to CGC mislabeling the slabs, with only 14 CGC 9.8's that is about a 20% success rate in that grade; but with only about 1/5th of the number or submission that SMOTA #10 has. EW#1GF's run about $100 raw, and are not super common to begin with.

So, IS $750 REALLY a stretch for either of these books? Is $1,000? (EDIT: I'm clearly NOT referring to the EW #4, which is in a different category)

As a buyer primarily, I'd pay that so fast that it would leave skid marks.

I actually think you are right on the yellow labels. It could double what they fetch. I would start the Gold Flat at $1500 and take offers, $1000 on the Solar. I am just not in the yellow label game and don't want to put myself forth as a pricing expert. Getting a signature on a very hard to get 9.8, even a "common" one, like Shooter, can be a big deal.

(oops! Just read the rest of the thread, looks like I was a little late with the advice!)

jmatt · Post by **jmatt** » Sun Aug 09, 2015 8:42 pm

Nice sale DBS!

FormerReader · Post by **FormerReader** » Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:10 pm

Congrats DBS!

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