Origin of Harada - discussion

[X-O HoboJoe]

I don't remember if the lost land was destroyed at the end of Unity, but about the place where all space converges, the "unreality" that SOlar goes into kind of serves that purpose.

In Alpha & Omega, Seleski tells Pierce when they go into the unreality that it is like the "backdoor to everywhere".

I just read this again last night, so it is on my mind.

Also, for the record, all signs point to fusion reactor. Every reference made by Seleski in A&O and early SOlar issues is to fusion. "Advanced fusion research", "unlocking the mystery of fusion", at "Edgewater advanced fusion research center", etc.

Why is it that you keep ignoring the word "Energy" in the name?

Fusion isn't the only kind of energy. It's not a fusion research center, it's an energy research center that also uses fusion. That doesn't mean that Phil's reactor was a fusion reactor, it means that the place where the reactor was built also reseached fusion.

I thought it was a quasi-alternative prototype that wound up punching access into the quantum field (for lack of a better term). Anyone gaining direct access to that field through the reactor breach or via Solar would gain the ability to manipulate it.

[Dr. Solar]

I thought it was a quasi-alternative prototype that wound up punching access into the quantum field (for lack of a better term). Anyone gaining direct access to that field through the reactor breach or via Solar would gain the ability to manipulate it.

Well, that's one way of putting it.

[ManofTheAtom]

I thought it was a quasi-alternative prototype that wound up punching access into the quantum field (for lack of a better term). Anyone gaining direct access to that field through the reactor breach or via Solar would gain the ability to manipulate it.

Since it's an energy research center, I think that the reactor was something new that was built by Phil to research alternative energy.

As for your theory, what we know is that Phil jumped into the plasma and was changed. Was there any indication that the reactor pierced the quantum field?

[X-O HoboJoe]

I thought it was a quasi-alternative prototype that wound up punching access into the quantum field (for lack of a better term). Anyone gaining direct access to that field through the reactor breach or via Solar would gain the ability to manipulate it.

Well, that's one way of putting it.

When did they call it a wish machine? (Or did I dream that?) I'm so far behind on stuff I don't have a hope in hell of going back to find these things . . .

[ManofTheAtom]

I thought it was a quasi-alternative prototype that wound up punching access into the quantum field (for lack of a better term). Anyone gaining direct access to that field through the reactor breach or via Solar would gain the ability to manipulate it.

Well, that's one way of putting it.

When did they call it a wish machine? (Or did I dream that?) I'm so far behind on stuff I don't have a hope in hell of going back to find these things . . .

Solar #4? I don't remember.

[X-O HoboJoe]

I thought it was a quasi-alternative prototype that wound up punching access into the quantum field (for lack of a better term). Anyone gaining direct access to that field through the reactor breach or via Solar would gain the ability to manipulate it.

Since it's an energy research center, I think that the reactor was something new that was built by Phil to research alternative energy.

As for your theory, what we know is that Phil jumped into the plasma and was changed. Was there any indication that the reactor pierced the quantum field?

I don't think any indication was given, that's just me theorizing as to how it could have happened.

IIRC, the best reason given was that Phil wanted it to happen that way because he read too many comics as a kid.

[Dr. Solar]

Since it's an energy research center, I think that the reactor was something new that was built by Phil to research alternative energy.

Phil states outright that he is researching advanced Fusion. Phil calls the reactor he is building a fusion reactor in the second to last page of Solar 1.

Assuming that Phil was building the same reactor both times, it is a fusion reactor. Straight out of Phil Seleski's mouth in Solar #1. he says, "Someone is trying to haze me. Someone who doesn't want the fusion reactor completed..."

Do I need more evidence?

[ManofTheAtom]

I thought it was a quasi-alternative prototype that wound up punching access into the quantum field (for lack of a better term). Anyone gaining direct access to that field through the reactor breach or via Solar would gain the ability to manipulate it.

Since it's an energy research center, I think that the reactor was something new that was built by Phil to research alternative energy.

As for your theory, what we know is that Phil jumped into the plasma and was changed. Was there any indication that the reactor pierced the quantum field?

I don't think any indication was given, that's just me theorizing as to how it could have happened.

IIRC, the best reason given was that Phil wanted it to happen that way because he read too many comics as a kid.

Yeah.

I do think there's a science behind it, it's not like he wished for a million dollars and they appeared out of thin air.

He wished to become a hero and created a machine that granted him his wish, not because it was magical but because he used the proper science to do it.

[Dr. Solar]

I do think there's a science behind it, it's not like he wished for a million dollars and they appeared out of thin air.

He wished to become a hero and created a machine that granted him his wish, not because it was magical but because he used the proper science to do it.

Maybe he read The Secret.

[ManofTheAtom]

Since it's an energy research center, I think that the reactor was something new that was built by Phil to research alternative energy.

Phil states outright that he is researching advanced Fusion. Phil calls the reactor he is building a fusion reactor in the second to last page of Solar 1.

Assuming that Phil was building the same reactor both times, it is a fusion reactor. Straight out of Phil Seleski's mouth in Solar #1. he says, "Someone is trying to haze me. Someone who doesn't want the fusion reactor completed..."

Do I need more evidence?

Guess not.

[ManofTheAtom]

I do think there's a science behind it, it's not like he wished for a million dollars and they appeared out of thin air.

He wished to become a hero and created a machine that granted him his wish, not because it was magical but because he used the proper science to do it.

Maybe he read The Secret.

[magnusr]

What did it say in Rai 0, when Solar split after he let Gayle die?

The split version of Solar went off to explore other planes of reality or existence or something like that. Anyone have the panel?

"It's said that the other persona went off to find other planes of reality to explore."

Then there's the follow-up in a book less revered:
"For me... there are other dimensions to explore... other realities"


/Magnus

[ManofTheAtom]

What did it say in Rai 0, when Solar split after he let Gayle die?

The split version of Solar went off to explore other planes of reality or existence or something like that. Anyone have the panel?

"It's said that the other persona went off to find other planes of reality to explore."

Then there's the follow-up in a book less revered:
"For me... there are other dimensions to explore... other realities"


/Magnus

But for the sake of argument, let's establish that planes of reality does not mean alternate dimensions.

http://www.answers.com/topic/plane-metaphysics

In metaphysics and esoteric cosmology, a plane of existence (sometimes called simply a plane, dimension, realm, vibrating plane, or an inner, invisible, spiritual, supraphysical world, or egg) is conceived as a subtle region of space (and/or consciousness) beyond, but permeating, the known physical universe (or a portion of the physical universe itself) and inhabited by evolving spirit-life beings in different stages of consciousness.

The above concept may be found in religious, metaphysical and esoteric teachings - e.g. Vedanta (Advaita Vedanta), Neoplatonism, Gnosticism, Kashmir Shaivism, Sant Mat/Surat Shabd Yoga, Sufism, Druze, Kabbalah, Theosophy, Anthroposophy, Rosicrucianism (Esoteric Christian), Eckankar, etc. - which propound the idea of a whole series of subtle planes or worlds or dimensions which, from a center, interpenetrate themselves and the physical planet in which we live, the solar systems, and all the physical structures of the universe. This interpenetration of planes culminates in the universe itself as a physical structured, dynamic and evolutive expression emanated through a series of steadily denser stages, becoming progressively more material and embodied.

The emanation is conceived, according to esoteric teachings, to have been originated, at the dawn of the universe's manifestation, in The Supreme Being Who sent out - from the unmanifested Absolute beyond comprehension - the dynamic force of creative energy, as sound-vibration ("the Word"), into the abyss of space. On the other hand, it states that this dynamic force is being sent forth, through the ages, framing all things that constitute and inhabit the universe.

[cjv]

Interesting how after 2000 years Mothergod reached the conclusion that Solar affected existance and not alternate realities.

Woldn't "all existance" include all realities?

Chris

[Dr. Solar]

What was the point of this conversation again?

I really lost track.

[ManofTheAtom]

Interesting how after 2000 years Mothergod reached the conclusion that Solar affected existance and not alternate realities.

Wouldn't all existance" include all realities?

Chris

Main Entry: ex·is·tence
Pronunciation: ig-'zis-t&n(t)s
Function: noun
1 a obsolete : reality as opposed to appearance b : reality as presented in experience c (1) : the totality of existent things (2) : a particular being <all the fair existences of heaven -- John Keats> d : sentient or living being : LIFE
2 a : the state or fact of having being especially independently of human consciousness and as contrasted with nonexistence <the existence of other worlds> b : the manner of being that is common to every mode of being c : being with respect to a limiting condition or under a particular aspect
3 : actual or present occurrence <existence of a state of war>

Nope...

[ManofTheAtom]

What was the point of this conversation again?

I really lost track.

To figure out what kind of reactor it was.

[cjv]

[Fusion isn't the only kind of energy. It's not a fusion research center, it's an energy research center that also uses fusion. That doesn't mean that Phil's reactor was a fusion reactor, it means that the place where the reactor was built also reseached fusion.

Actually, it looks to me like it is an "advanced fusion energy research center".

Doesn't mean that it was a fusion reactor, but it looks like they were studying fusion energy.

Chris

[ManofTheAtom]

[Fusion isn't the only kind of energy. It's not a fusion research center, it's an energy research center that also uses fusion. That doesn't mean that Phil's reactor was a fusion reactor, it means that the place where the reactor was built also reseached fusion.

Actually, it looks to me like it is an "advanced fusion energy research center".

Doesn't mean that it was a fusion reactor, but it looks like they were studying fusion energy.

Chris

Among many others. It wasn't a fusion research center, it was a fusion energy research center.

They researched energy.

[Dr. Solar]

[Fusion isn't the only kind of energy. It's not a fusion research center, it's an energy research center that also uses fusion. That doesn't mean that Phil's reactor was a fusion reactor, it means that the place where the reactor was built also reseached fusion.

Actually, it looks to me like it is an "advanced fusion energy research center".

Doesn't mean that it was a fusion reactor, but it looks like they were studying fusion energy.

Chris

Among many others. It wasn't a fusion research center, it was a fusion energy research center.

They researched energy.

Actually, Phil Seleski says that he researches fusion in the comics. Not energy.

Granted, the fusion was meant to create useable energy.

[cjv]

[Fusion isn't the only kind of energy. It's not a fusion research center, it's an energy research center that also uses fusion. That doesn't mean that Phil's reactor was a fusion reactor, it means that the place where the reactor was built also reseached fusion.

Actually, it looks to me like it is an "advanced fusion energy research center".

Doesn't mean that it was a fusion reactor, but it looks like they were studying fusion energy.

Chris

Among many others. It wasn't a fusion research center, it was a fusion energy research center.

They researched energy.

The sign doesn't just say energy research center, it says "advanced fusion energy research center". They didn't just research energy, they researched FUSION energy. Now, unless there is a comma or something, it seems clear that the sign indicates it was specifically fusion energy, not just the broad term "energy".

If it was just an energy research center, then why have the word "fusion" there?

Chris

[Dr. Solar]

The sign doesn't just say energy research center, it says "advanced fusion energy research center". They didn't just research energy, they researched FUSION energy. Now, unless there is a comma or something, it seems clear that the sign indicates it was specifically fusion energy, not just the broad term "energy".

If it was just an energy research center, then why have the word "fusion" there?

Chris

The word fusion is there because as Phil Seleski says in the comic books, he researches fusion at Edgewater.

[X-O HoboJoe]

As far the state of reality goes, I think we'd need to define what Shooter was using as his basis when he conceived the story (eg. what real-world (so to speak) scientific theory he was embracing in ~1990) vs. what had to be altered in P-U VH1 to allow for super-heroes to exist and function. Shooter's a smart guy and (IMO) a helluva writer, so his dropping hints and explaining nothing if he didn't have to leads to continued interest to this day.

As far as the Fusion vs. Energy thing, it's mostly studied as particle physics, isn't it? IIRC, the energy is a quantifiable by-product of that study, but if Phil's much like his real-world counter-parts (pre-accident), then it's what the Hydrogen and Helium atoms are doing that's his main focus. Of course, the fact that's it a "research prototype" fusion reactor (which is really pretty damn scary if I think about it too much) means that there's enough wiggle room to allow for how the accident happens to be obscured. The energy in a normal fusion reactor comes from the heat the reaction generates to run a big steam engine At least, I think it is . . . not really up on the engineering aspects.

Again, just Shooter knowing what made for a good story: Too many details might get in the way of what was making the story work.

Having BWS doing the art never hurts tho.

[x-omatic]

[Fusion isn't the only kind of energy. It's not a fusion research center, it's an energy research center that also uses fusion. That doesn't mean that Phil's reactor was a fusion reactor, it means that the place where the reactor was built also reseached fusion.

Actually, it looks to me like it is an "advanced fusion energy research center".

Doesn't mean that it was a fusion reactor, but it looks like they were studying fusion energy.

Chris

Among many others. It wasn't a fusion research center, it was a fusion energy research center.

They researched energy.

They researched FUSION energy.

[cjv]

[Fusion isn't the only kind of energy. It's not a fusion research center, it's an energy research center that also uses fusion. That doesn't mean that Phil's reactor was a fusion reactor, it means that the place where the reactor was built also reseached fusion.

Actually, it looks to me like it is an "advanced fusion energy research center".

Doesn't mean that it was a fusion reactor, but it looks like they were studying fusion energy.

Chris

Among many others. It wasn't a fusion research center, it was a fusion energy research center.

They researched energy.

Specifically fusion energy.

It seems like you are trying to get around the "fusion" thing - presumably because it doesn't mesh with the idea of "real science". It's funny - sometimes you read the comic and you try to interpret dialogue and wording literally, and other times you go out of your way to try to avoid a term that is used MANY times in the comic.

Phil states it is a fusion reactor.

The sign says fusion energy.

Phil states he is working on fusion.

You can't get around it.

As Hobo states, there is lots of wiggle room with the phrase "research prototype" but it is still fusion energy, via a fusion reactor.

And if that doesn't work with "real science"...well...it's a comic book!

Chris