New Universe

Comic universes no longer active, Bravura, Continuity, CrossGen, Future, Malibu, Ultraverse... and others that are 'no longer with us' today (or only recently brought back).

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Todd Luck
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New Universe

Post by Todd Luck »

I've sampled one or two of all the New Universe titles except Spitfire. Most were kinda bland, not something I'ld really follow. Most writers didn't understand you can't just have the universe be bound by real science and then have the characters talk like Marvel stereotypes. The realism needed to be in the character developement too. Ofcourse, a few superpowered villians would've helped too.

But here are the ones I did enjoy:

Mark Hazard, Merc- Great characterization, action, humor. I can see why Peter David became such a hot writer.

Star Seed- One of the most developed characters in the entire line. He was a bit of a aimless loser though, and this series could've used a supervillian or two. But good art and very interesting stuff. Shooter tried out a lot of concepts he would later perfected with Solar.

Nightmask- Really intrigueing concept, awesome art. A little less exciting on the execution and some of the villians are over the top but interesing none the less.

DP 7- I can't honestly recomend the book itself. But I gotta say that giant guy rocks.

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dac55
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New Universe

Post by dac55 »

Hay Todd Theres a web site Called www.whiteevent.com I go there a lot.I have started reading the New universe. I think some of the books are a real good read. I dont mean anything about this but its Star Brand. And that one is writen By Shooter. Or at least the first 7 are. He puts you in the mind that it might be Solar. There are others. Try going thereto Marks site you may like it. and you might see me there.

David

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Todd Luck
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Re: New Universe

Post by Todd Luck »

dac55 wrote:Hay Todd Theres a web site Called www.whiteevent.com I go there a lot.I have started reading the New universe. I think some of the books are a real good read. I dont mean anything about this but its Star Brand. And that one is writen By Shooter. Or at least the first 7 are. He puts you in the mind that it might be Solar. There are others. Try going thereto Marks site you may like it. and you might see me there.

David
Shooter only did 7 issues?!? :o

I'm surprised. No wonder everyone was so sore when Byrne took over and changed the book's direction. Seven issues isn't long enough to explore where it was originally going. Did Byrne do the rest of the issues?

BTW, it is a cool site :thumb: .

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Re: New Universe

Post by Todd Luck »

Todd Luck wrote:
dac55 wrote:Hay Todd Theres a web site Called www.whiteevent.com I go there a lot.I have started reading the New universe. I think some of the books are a real good read. I dont mean anything about this but its Star Brand. And that one is writen By Shooter. Or at least the first 7 are. He puts you in the mind that it might be Solar. There are others. Try going thereto Marks site you may like it. and you might see me there.

David
Shooter only did 7 issues?!? :o

I'm surprised. No wonder everyone was so sore when Byrne took over and changed the book's direction. Seven issues isn't long enough to explore where it was originally going. Did Byrne do the rest of the issues?

BTW, it is a cool site :thumb: .
I found the answer to my question at this site:

http://www.forgottenuniverses.com/index2.html

It has a nice cover checklist with creator credits :thumb:

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Re: New Universe

Post by jcdenton »

Todd Luck wrote:No wonder everyone was so sore when Byrne took over and changed the book's direction. Seven issues isn't long enough to explore where it was originally going. Did Byrne do the rest of the issues?
Byrne didn't just take over the book, he destroyed it: http://www.valiantfans.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5968

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Post by dac55 »

You know I think Brother J said the same thing. I dont have but a few Issues of Star Brand. So I dont know. But if Brother J said it was bad I half to belive him.

David

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Re: New Universe

Post by Todd Luck »

dac55 wrote:Hay Todd Theres a web site Called www.whiteevent.com I go there a lot.
It's very cool there's a discussion board about New Universe. Every old comics line should have atleast one :thumb:

I made a few posts based on my whole nine issues worth of New Universe knowledge to show my support :) .

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Post by Todd Luck »

I just pick up an issue of Peter David's run on Justice (issue 15 till the end of the series). Awesome stuff. I highly recommend it.

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Post by Brother J »

dac55 wrote:You know I think Brother J said the same thing. I dont have but a few Issues of Star Brand. So I dont know. But if Brother J said it was bad I half to belive him.

David
Thanks, David!

My feelings about Star Brand when Byrne took over were pretty well summed up by jcdenton in the thread he linked.

In my opinion, when I was reading the books, I felt that John Byrne was not so much changing the direction of the book to make it better, but intentionally destroying everything Shooter did in the book just because of his personal negative feelings about Shooter. I guess I can't say that for 100% sure, but it was sure the vibe I got from it. The Star Brand carrier (I believe his name was Ken O'Connell) was probably too much like Shooter in Byrne's eyes (a tall guy whose home town was Pittsburgh), so his best "revenge" was making the character become a total *SQUEE*. Debbie Fix (The Duck character) was too much like the real Ms. Fix, who I assume is close with Shooter as she worked with him at more than one of his companies. Byrne kills her off in a unpleasant manner, but first changes her name for whatever reason.

I was always a fan of Byrne's work, but this stuff was some of his worst.

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Post by dave »

i've been picking up reader copies of new universe stuff for 10 cents or 25 cents. they've all been worth it-i thought star brand dragged a bit. i'm surprised that the word on dp7 was not a recommendation-i recommend it very highly to anyone who likes harbinger. especially dawgphan. you'll LOVE it (sorry). merc was cool, because you saw a guy going through tough times in his personal life, but "work" is just fine.

if ken o'connel was a type of shooter...isn't it interesting how much he resembles aric? even though that theory continually gets shot down.

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Post by Todd Luck »

dave wrote:i've been picking up reader copies of new universe stuff for 10 cents or 25 cents. they've all been worth it-i thought star brand dragged a bit. i'm surprised that the word on dp7 was not a recommendation-i recommend it very highly to anyone who likes harbinger. especially dawgphan. you'll LOVE it (sorry). merc was cool, because you saw a guy going through tough times in his personal life, but "work" is just fine.

if ken o'connel was a type of shooter...isn't it interesting how much he resembles aric? even though that theory continually gets shot down.
DP 7 moves very slow, so it's a hard series to judge until you have a bunch of issues of it. I've only got two so far so I couldn't honestly recommend it from what I had (even if Big Dave rocks :) ). I like the concept. Reminds me a lot of Doom Patrol.

I think Ken O'Connel's face is very different from Aric's. It's very narrow with protruding cheek bones (honestly, not the "prettiest" face to ever grace the pages of a comic). I got a feeling the blonde hair is make him look different than Superman...maybe Shooter too :)

The "Byrne destroyed Star Brand to get back at Shooter" theory that the others mentioned is interesting. I think Byrne's denied it. It certainly would be unusual for Byrne. If he really hated Shooter that much I would've thought he would just left the company. He's had no problem doing that in the 15+ years since. The second he starts getting grief at a company he just leaves and goes to their competion.

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Post by The Spider »

Todd Luck wrote: The "Byrne destroyed Star Brand to get back at Shooter" theory that the others mentioned is interesting. I think Byrne's denied it. It certainly would be unusual for Byrne. If he really hated Shooter that much I would've thought he would just left the company. He's had no problem doing that in the 15+ years since. The second he starts getting grief at a company he just leaves and goes to their competion.
Byrne DID leave Marvel during while Jim Shooter was there (his last issue of Fantastic Four was the first of a two parter, which ended up getting completed by Roger Stern, I think). This was around the time he was going to work on MAN OF STEEL and the rest of the Superman run.

Shooter was already gone from Marvel by the time Byrne was working on STAR BRAND.

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Post by dave »

i've read a few times that byrne has a strong dislike for big jim. i have no idea what it's about though...threre was a wizard article around 94 95, maybe later about valiant not being the same since he (shooter) left, and byrne said that was never really impressed with valiant at ANY time...i thought that was weird.

even if you hate someone you should try to remain a little objective! i don't like shaq-but i will still admit that he is a powerhouse capable of taking over a basketball game!

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Post by Todd Luck »

dave wrote:i've read a few times that byrne has a strong dislike for big jim. i have no idea what it's about though...threre was a wizard article around 94 95, maybe later about valiant not being the same since he (shooter) left, and byrne said that was never really impressed with valiant at ANY time...i thought that was weird.

even if you hate someone you should try to remain a little objective! i don't like shaq-but i will still admit that he is a powerhouse capable of taking over a basketball game!
Byrne disliked Watchmen too. He doesn't neccessarily like what is universally considered "good." He's got his own opinion and he's not afraid to use it :D .

Of course personal vendettas and reputations affecting how comic creators talk about each other's work is pretty common too.

Does anyone know of anything Byrne's said to give people the idea that he did take on Star Brand to "get back" at Shooter. I thought I had an interview where Byrne denied it but I was wrong. I can't find anything that's he's ever said about Star Brand period. I'ld think a bigger "revenge" would be to not take the job and let the book die rather than risk resurrecting its sales by attaching his name to it.

Byrne and most other comic talents have radically altered a lot of books they've been on, destroying what the person before them did. Often that writer was someone they didn't like. But this is the first time I've heard any accusation that comic talent redid a book to "get back" at someone (you talk about a lot of work for a little revenge when you're writing, drawing, and possibly inking the sucker!).

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Post by The Spider »

Todd Luck wrote:
dave wrote:i've read a few times that byrne has a strong dislike for big jim. i have no idea what it's about though...threre was a wizard article around 94 95, maybe later about valiant not being the same since he (shooter) left, and byrne said that was never really impressed with valiant at ANY time...i thought that was weird.

even if you hate someone you should try to remain a little objective! i don't like shaq-but i will still admit that he is a powerhouse capable of taking over a basketball game!
Byrne disliked Watchmen too. He doesn't neccessarily like what is universally considered "good." He's got his own opinion and he's not afraid to use it :D .

Of course personal vendettas and reputations affecting how comic creators talk about each other's work is pretty common too.

Does anyone know of anything Byrne's said to give people the idea that he did take on Star Brand to "get back" at Shooter. I thought I had an interview where Byrne denied it but I was wrong. I can't find anything that's he's ever said about Star Brand period. I'ld think a bigger "revenge" would be to not take the job and let the book die rather than risk resurrecting its sales by attaching his name to it.
I think it gets brought up on the Byrne message board often and here's one:

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/foru ... ID=1361&KW

where Byrne says

"Incidentally, the thing that was the most fun for me
doing STARBRAND was what I didn't do. Almost
everyone (except Howard Mackie, who hired me to
do the job0 expected me to pillage and burn, and
"revenge" myself on Shooter by destroying his baby.
So naturally I treated the book as if it was real, and
not just some exercise in rampant ego, and did the
best I could to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. "

I can't remember where I read it, but it's a possibility that they had to get rid of Debbie Fix and anyone else Shooter wrote who was inspired by a real life person just to avoid any problems. And Byrne did kill himself and Howard Mackie off right before Pittsburgh got blown up (this was during the convention scene, where Connell shows up in costume, Byrne and Mackie tell him why some of the comic logic doesn't apply to Connell, the Old Man shows up, etc).

(And anybody remember the Ostrander/Wein-written, Byrne-drawn LEGENDS? Where Guy Gardner took on a character named The Sun Spot, who was obviously Jim Shooter? ShooterSpot shot himself in the foot, even.)
Byrne and most other comic talents have radically altered a lot of books they've been on, destroying what the person before them did. Often that writer was someone they didn't like. But this is the first time I've heard any accusation that comic talent redid a book to "get back" at someone (you talk about a lot of work for a little revenge when you're writing, drawing, and possibly inking the sucker!).
Actually, Byrne just wrote and did (I think) pencil breakdowns. Tom Palmer and someone else later on did the inking or finished art.

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Post by The Spider »

And as for Byrne and Shooter, this thread seems interesting:

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/foru ... p?TID=3829

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Post by Todd Luck »

The Spider wrote:
I think it gets brought up on the Byrne message board often and here's one:

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/foru ... ID=1361&KW

where Byrne says

"Incidentally, the thing that was the most fun for me
doing STARBRAND was what I didn't do. Almost
everyone (except Howard Mackie, who hired me to
do the job0 expected me to pillage and burn, and
"revenge" myself on Shooter by destroying his baby.
So naturally I treated the book as if it was real, and
not just some exercise in rampant ego, and did the
best I could to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. "

.
Good finds :thumb: . Thanks :D

So we do have a denial (which is what I expected). Byrne didn't like what Shooter did with the book and thought he had better ideas. That happens a lot, every Valiant fan knows that :wink: .


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