Rob Liefield's Turok:The Dinosur Hunter

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kjjohanson
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Re: Rob Liefield's Turok:The Dinosur Hunter

Post by kjjohanson »

I was looking around for an image I saw of Liefeld's Captain America (yes, that image), where someone added another head and neck above the torso on the right, which, oddly, fit the image fairly well.
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Re: Rob Liefield's Turok:The Dinosur Hunter

Post by BugsySig »

Just let me say that I often have (and still do) defend Liefeld's early work. It was new, dynamic, eye-catching and different...which is often seen as a good thing today. Many of his characters went on to be massive successes as well (though the vast majority did so at the hands of other writers).

My problem is the guy obviously doesn't give a *SQUEE* anymore. He probably made good money for that cover and didn't care enough to make it look good. He hasn't cared enough for quite some time and it shows in his work.

We all are discerning enough to know when someone is putting in the appropriate amount of effort or if work is rushed, sloppy or otherwise offensive, and when it is obvious every time the guy puts pencil to paper nowadays, I don't see how you can't treat him like a joke.
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Re: Rob Liefield's Turok:The Dinosur Hunter

Post by kjjohanson »

BugsySig wrote:Just let me say that I often have (and still do) defend Liefeld's early work. It was new, dynamic, eye-catching and different...which is often seen as a good thing today. Many of his characters went on to be massive successes as well (though the vast majority did so at the hands of other writers).

My problem is the guy obviously doesn't give a *SQUEE* anymore. He probably made good money for that cover and didn't care enough to make it look good. He hasn't cared enough for quite some time and it shows in his work.

We all are discerning enough to know when someone is putting in the appropriate amount of effort or if work is rushed, sloppy or otherwise offensive, and when it is obvious every time the guy puts pencil to paper nowadays, I don't see how you can't treat him like a joke.
This pretty much sums up my opinion of his work as well. The guy doesn't seem to be interested enough is comics to improve his craft. At all.
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Re: Rob Liefield's Turok:The Dinosur Hunter

Post by JonesyAZ »

Here's my take on Liefeld. He got me into comics. And I still actually enjoy re-reading his Extreme books on occasion, though they are terrible from a writing standpoint. It's the nostalgia :)

But my single reason for being *SQUEE* off at Liefeld is his inability to finish storylines, with never a good reason for doing so. I can't tell you how many times I've been excited about and ultimately let down over 20 years by his new projects that he never completes. That's poor fan service and bad business.

With that in mind, I think he's only receiving what he deserves because I also believe that many folks who bag on his work are also fueled by frustration like me. Yet, I still pray that he learns from his mistakes. If Rob Liefeld could commit to ONE solid, consistent book for an extended period of time, I think he'd turn the tide for himself and his fan base.
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Re: Rob Liefield's Turok:The Dinosur Hunter

Post by Heath »

I think the thing with Rob is that he's not an artist. He's a comic book fanboy. All he knows about art, he learned from looking at comic books. So he doesn't understand the stylistic choices that other artists have made that he has tried to emulate. He has a natural talent for drawing, but he doesn't have the education or any real world art experience to draw upon to form a foundation. But, he loves comic books.

I picture him drawing with all the enthusiasm my son had drawing Star Wars pictures when he was 8. No real grasp of anatomy, perspective, physics, lighting, etc. Just excitedly drawing what he thinks is super cool, and unaware he's making little gun and explosion sounds while he's doing it. Anatomy, perspective, physics... none of that is interesting or fun, so it's mostly ignored. Cyborg guys with giant guns, karate ninja dudes with double bladed swords and ponytails, and half naked women standing with their butts and boobs poked out... that's what he finds interesting and fun.

From everything I hear, I bet he's a really nice guy. I bet I'd love hanging out with him and talking about comics. And the above is just a guess.
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Re: Rob Liefield's Turok:The Dinosur Hunter

Post by lorddunlow »

Heath wrote:Just excitedly drawing what he thinks is super cool, and unaware he's making little gun and explosion sounds while he's doing it.
So, are you guys gonna start making fun of me now? I thought we were all cool here. Apparently this place is not the safe haven I had believed it was. :(

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Re: Rob Liefield's Turok:The Dinosur Hunter

Post by Magnus9178 »

Heath wrote:I think the thing with Rob is that he's not an artist. He's a comic book fanboy. All he knows about art, he learned from looking at comic books. So he doesn't understand the stylistic choices that other artists have made that he has tried to emulate. He has a natural talent for drawing, but he doesn't have the education or any real world art experience to draw upon to form a foundation. But, he loves comic books.

I picture him drawing with all the enthusiasm my son had drawing Star Wars pictures when he was 8. No real grasp of anatomy, perspective, physics, lighting, etc. Just excitedly drawing what he thinks is super cool, and unaware he's making little gun and explosion sounds while he's doing it. Anatomy, perspective, physics... none of that is interesting or fun, so it's mostly ignored. Cyborg guys with giant guns, karate ninja dudes with double bladed swords and ponytails, and half naked women standing with their butts and boobs poked out... that's what he finds interesting and fun.

From everything I hear, I bet he's a really nice guy. I bet I'd love hanging out with him and talking about comics. And the above is just a guess.
You've pretty much hit the nail on the head. He is a huge fanboy and talking to him can be an fun experience. I do offer some criticism though; liking his work as much as I do I'm still perplexed when the obvious bad art is put out there. This Turok picture is a great example, why would he never notice the fletching is missing or that there was no bow string? I really have no idea, it just looks weird without it. As a fan I do like this cover a lot, but I have to admit it's hard to look past the aforementioned errors.

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Re: Rob Liefield's Turok:The Dinosur Hunter

Post by Chiclo »

Heath wrote:I think the thing with Rob is that he's not an artist. He's a comic book fanboy. All he knows about art, he learned from looking at comic books. So he doesn't understand the stylistic choices that other artists have made that he has tried to emulate. He has a natural talent for drawing, but he doesn't have the education or any real world art experience to draw upon to form a foundation. But, he loves comic books.

I picture him drawing with all the enthusiasm my son had drawing Star Wars pictures when he was 8. No real grasp of anatomy, perspective, physics, lighting, etc. Just excitedly drawing what he thinks is super cool, and unaware he's making little gun and explosion sounds while he's doing it. Anatomy, perspective, physics... none of that is interesting or fun, so it's mostly ignored. Cyborg guys with giant guns, karate ninja dudes with double bladed swords and ponytails, and half naked women standing with their butts and boobs poked out... that's what he finds interesting and fun.

From everything I hear, I bet he's a really nice guy. I bet I'd love hanging out with him and talking about comics. And the above is just a guess.
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Re: Rob Liefield's Turok:The Dinosur Hunter

Post by DirtbagSailor »

Heath wrote:Cyborg guys with giant guns, karate ninja dudes with double bladed swords and ponytails, and half naked women standing with their butts and boobs poked out... that's what he finds interesting and fun.
On this point I'm in 100% agreement. I mean, if I can't read a comic without a half naked women standing with her butt and boobs poking out while also battling a Cyborg-karate-ninja wielding a giant gun, I'm not sure I want to live in this world anymore.

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Re: Rob Liefield's Turok:The Dinosur Hunter

Post by Watchtower »

The whole "why does everybody want realism" bit is cool, but 1) people still expect at least some sense of anatomical structure and consistency and 2) his art still sucks.

I would normally be upset about how he just tried to pass off a giant pencil as an arrow, but I'm not. Liefeld's made his career off guns despite having apparently never seen one; I'm not trusting him at all with a bow.

He's not even holding the arrow properly. Look at his left hand. It's stuck in some tiger-style pose with the "arrow" stuck between like a really bad chopstick.

What ARE those things sticking out of his right shoulder?

It took me a while to realize the odd shape of the bow was due to it getting cut off by the border. Jesus, I don't draw, but I at least have some semblance of composition.

It seems all Liefeld characters have to have their covers with them either a) in front of a featureless void, b) free-falling, or c) both. And don't let the dinosaur wallpaper fool you; Turok's in empty space.

WHY does he have modern-day military pouches?! DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING

Apparently Turok's got a haircut so his mohawk could jut outwards. Y'know, it's almost charming how Liefeld seems to be perpetually stuck in the 90s.

I seriously don't understand how Liefeld keeps getting work. Yeah, I get that he loves what he does, and he's probably a really cool guy to chill with, but at the end of the day you still need to do your job. There are artistic savants who take their time crafting beauty, and there are talentless hacks who can still churn out on a deadline. Liefeld can't do either and yet is living the freaking dream life.

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Re: Rob Liefield's Turok:The Dinosur Hunter

Post by greg »

Watchtower wrote:I seriously don't understand how Liefeld keeps getting work. Yeah, I get that he loves what he does, and he's probably a really cool guy to chill with, but at the end of the day you still need to do your job. There are artistic savants who take their time crafting beauty, and there are talentless hacks who can still churn out on a deadline. Liefeld can't do either and yet is living the freaking dream life.
Step 1: Get publicity (doesn't matter if it's mostly negative)
Step 2: Publicity causes retailers to buy
Step 3: Mostly negative publicity leads to the "underdog crowd" joining up to defend you (either as not as bad as they say, or as "leave Britney alone" runny mascara)
Step 4: Sell to the underdog crowd

Success.

Rinse. Repeat.

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Re: Rob Liefield's Turok:The Dinosur Hunter

Post by Shadowman99 »

Just doesn't cut it for me.

He's basically doing his job badly: He's ignored a massive fundamental aspect of his job for years, and gotten away with it.

Most artists, if they struggle to draw something, feet, hands, anatomy, dynamic poses, facial expressions, whatever(!), will actively identify their weak areas and practice and practice and practice at improving it until it's no longer a weakness at all.

Liefeld's sustained his career whilst being unable to draw hands, feet, weapons, musculature, proportions and at the *SQUEE* LEAST, limbs that are actually attached to the rest of the body (see that Hawk and Dove picture above: Look at Dove's one visible leg, and see how it completely fails to actually join her at the hip/pelvis).

He's a man making a living at drawing, when he doesn't appear to understand, or at the very least implement, the most basic of drawing necessities. He is doing his job badly. And when most people do their job badly, they get sacked. How he's still picking up work is beyond me (and don't give me the "even bad publicity is good publicity" crap).
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Re: Rob Liefield's Turok:The Dinosur Hunter

Post by Baramos »

To be fair, this is probably the highest quality drawing he's done.

It's not that he doesn't draw feet, it's that he usually covers them because he can't draw them well. When he does they look like that. Those are signature Rob Liefeld feet. BUT they are the least bad Rob Liefeld feet I've seen.

The musculature of the arms looks ALMOST somewhere in reality, too!

And the eyes! They're ALMOST symmetrical. Compare this to his work on the New 52 Hawk and Dove. Well, better not, actually. It'll really hurt your eyes. But still!

But it seems he can't give up his love of just jamming six thousand teeth into mouths--look at those dinosaurs. They look like they swallowed porcupines.


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