Dan DiDio Ousted From DC Comics

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Dan DiDio Ousted From DC Comics

Post by IMJ »

This is potentially huge news..... If anyone has been following AT&T's point of view on DC comics, the upcoming crazy 5G reboot (hotly debated) and the sales from within the industry you'll know that this is big news.

Dan DiDio Out As Co-Publisher

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Re: Dan DiDio Ousted From DC Comics

Post by IMJ »

I hate to drive traffic to a site like Bleeding Cool, but they are saying it's confirmed that DiDio is out from DC completely.....

Dan DiDio No Longer Publisher Of DC Comics As Of Today

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Re: Dan DiDio Ousted From DC Comics

Post by SwiftMann »

My post on a friend's FB link to the story.

I completely bailed on DC 10 years ago with the New 52 and was mostly on the way out for a few years before that. I feel like part of that was Didio's influence on the line.
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Re: Dan DiDio Ousted From DC Comics

Post by IMJ »

SwiftMann wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:41:45 pm
My post on a friend's FB link to the story.

I completely bailed on DC 10 years ago with the New 52 and was mostly on the way out for a few years before that. I feel like part of that was Didio's influence on the line.
This is actually how I feel about Joe Quesada. Not his personality - he's not the worst guy in the world. But I sort of trace every extremely liberal issue back to Joe Quesada's initial reign as EIC of Marvel Comics.

This is all illustrated by some of the things he said, some of the philosophies about various marvel IP's I've heard him discuss, and a large degree of ultra-liberal-minded processes came out of his reign - and to be clear when I say liberal-minded, I'm not speaking politically. Even worse - I'm talking behaviorally - like no plan, super shapeless BS - the throw all **** at the wall and see what sticks attitude.

And he had a warped perspective on the characters. He was the "One More Day" guy with Spider-Man who insisted that the character was failing in comics because of his marriage to M.J. He'd go on about how every single worthwhile Spider-Man story was told when he wasn't married and was in college.

Quesada had big opportunities with Quasar as well, but in an interview tore the character up completely warping that character's truth - instead of Wendell being a believer in life and energy who goes with the flow, Quesada minced the words into that the character "lacks the will to win" simply because he didn't like the character. Who knows why? Maybe because Quasar was a blue eyed, blond haired SHIELD agent and Quesada wanted anything that wasn't that wearing the Quantum Bands.

So I get it, man.

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Re: Dan DiDio Ousted From DC Comics

Post by dornwolf »

While it's always sad for some one to lose there job Didio was not good for DC in the long run. A lot of his decisions were horrible and some pushed me away from DC, namely New 52, and the only reason I came back was Geoff Johns and Rebirth which again thanks DD seems to have had all it's good will squandered and now leading to another new initiative that will most likely cause people to leave again for a while so him leaving is a good thing in the end.

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Re: Dan DiDio Ousted From DC Comics

Post by IMJ »

There's a pretty solid movement of subscribers to the theory that if DC's 5G event tanks (DC's attempt at the SJW design that has been causing hemorrhaging of readers at Marvel - SJW apologists here aside, how do ya think that is going to work for them?), it could be the death knell of DC at least as we have always known it to be. AT&T recently went on record reminding share holders that they are no "sacred cows in our portfolio".

I can't see how Jim Lee wouldn't be named his replacement.

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Re: Dan DiDio Ousted From DC Comics

Post by nycjadie »

Article today suggests that AT&T will kill DC Comics if 5G doesn’t work.

I just read what 5G is about. Holy *SQUEE* man. Guess what? 5G will fail.

I will enjoy collecting old comics. That won’t change.

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Re: Dan DiDio Ousted From DC Comics

Post by SwiftMann »

If it's the same source I've seen thrown around, they've been claiming DC's death is around the corner for years. Fear mongers.

And considering the creator that keeps getting sourced, there's no legitimate source for this story.
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Re: Dan DiDio Ousted From DC Comics

Post by IMJ »

SwiftMann wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:44:30 am
And considering the creator that keeps getting sourced, there's no legitimate source for this story.
DiDio was ousted from DC. That's not in question. But if you are talking about Van Sciver or Zac then sure there's a lot of reason to believe they'd have an agenda in gloom and doom for DC.

However, a lot of the patterns involving this definitely deserve scrutiny:
-Sales are down, and this isn't being hyperbolic - sales are down year after year.
-They just fired their publisher after 20 years on the eve of a significant publishing restructuring.
-The newest initiative being used to save the DC marketshare has all of the makings of an SJW diversity-initiative disaster that led to diminished readership and backlash towards Marvel.
-Sales are down & AT&T has made it clear that it will not "protect" DC

And so I'm not saying that I'm all in that DC is shuttering, but I do believe that 5g is leaning towards disaster more than success and that if it fails then DC would have to see some significant restructuring of some kind. Enough that it could impact the industry further.

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Re: Dan DiDio Ousted From DC Comics

Post by SwiftMann »

IMJ wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 12:12:13 pm
-Sales are down, and this isn't being hyperbolic - sales are down year after year.
No they aren't. Not sure why this myth is perpetuated regularly. At least not the industry as a whole. Can't speak towards DC alone. I mean, I could see it as DC and Didio went super-insular story telling the last 20 years.

Per Comichron, from a dollars perspective, which is the bottom line a company will look at, there were 3 down years during the recession (2009-2011) and then 2 years recently (2017-2018). Granted, the 2017 drop of 10% is a wake up call of sorts, it also followed a 5 year period of 40% increase. 2019 was back up 2.5%. 5 down years, most negligable over a 16 year run with 70% overall sales increase is not "year after year" down sales.

2003 310.60
2004 328.25 5.7%
2005 352.33 7.3%
2006 395.55 12.3%
2007 429.90 8.7%
2008 436.60 1.6%
2009 429.47 -1.6%
2010 418.60 -2.5%
2011 414.00 -1.1%
2012 474.61 14.6%
2013 517.66 9.1%
2014 540.40 4.4%
2015 579.00 7.1%
2016 580.91 0.3%
2017 522.25 -10.1%
2018 516.59 -1.1%
2019 529.66 2.5%
-Sales are down & AT&T has made it clear that it will not "protect" DC
Shareholder phone call rhetoric. DC needs to be on their toes, but that's not an indication of a target on their back.
-The newest initiative being used to save the DC marketshare has all of the makings of an SJW diversity-initiative disaster that led to diminished readership and backlash towards Marvel.
Speaking of rhetoric, the regular use of "SJW" immediately devalues most arguments and seems to be the new Godwin's law replacement.
"If you think any of these [older comics/shows/movies] do not carry a political content and is not using the medium of science fiction to explore real-world ideas, than you have not been paying attention." - Dan Abnett, VCR #246

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Re: Dan DiDio Ousted From DC Comics

Post by IMJ »

SwiftMann wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:16:45 pm
Per Comichron, from a dollars perspective, which is the bottom line a company will look at
You have to look at units moved in publication, brother. You have to look at the nature of the publishing industry's vertical and horizontal offerings, brother. Variants pad standard sales to the same reader. Omnibus and constant trade printing pad repeat buys to the same buyer. The diversity agenda wasn't implemented well and instead of bringing in new buyers, it alienated old. And to your observable statistic - when readership declines and you raise prices or invent expensive products like Omnibus, all you do is stress out your remaining market. It's the same bad psychology that forces restaurants out of business. Customer decline leads to extended portion control and raising prices and the restaurant only protracts the death process. It is, in many ways the same with publications.
SwiftMann wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:16:45 pm
Shareholder phone call rhetoric. DC needs to be on their toes, but that's not an indication of a target on their back.
I appreciate your points, but those points are relying on skewing a single, observable metric to your argument. There might be shareholders who want to look at the results from a dollar perspective like you said. There're a lot of reasons for that. How's that working out for Gamestop lately? ;)

I am illustrating the degree of reciprocating causation in the comic industry decline. Now had you made a simplified, baseline argument that the comic industry isn't going to shutter completely and that these arguments have been had for decades, then you'd have had a terminal point. And that wouldn't have needed to rely on a singular perspective from the ComicChron when in fact from a holistic perspective readership is down, prices are up and boutique products are being produced to retain the dollars.

The comic industry is in for a shakeup - we might even be in the middle of it now. And it might be just how it took a look back at the 90's to realize what kind of an unseen monster that was. Also, you used a single metric skewed to your cause probably because you don't want the industry to collapse. I understand your emotions on the subject. But it is a more helpful behavior to find solutions by looking at all of the data with integrity rather than using a small section of it to make an argument. The comic industry needs a real solution - new readers haven't come to the hobby in the numbers needed to keep it going as we know it.
SwiftMann wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:16:45 pm
Speaking of rhetoric, the regular use of "SJW" immediately devalues most arguments and seems to be the new Godwin's law replacement.
No. I don't even remotely care if you view this observation as a pejorative or not. That perception is your problem to deal with internally. But the industry has indeed relied on SJW tactics - tactics of social justice and diversity put first at all costs - to appeal to readers. And it hasn't worked. Any other meaning that you extract from that is your problem.
Last edited by IMJ on Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:06:59 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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Re: Dan DiDio Ousted From DC Comics

Post by IMJ »

-double post-

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Re: Dan DiDio Ousted From DC Comics

Post by SwiftMann »

1) No skewing. Just straight math. Source data could be problematic, but it's the go-to source for this site.

2) I'd say that most physical collectibles or items are now considered boutique with boutique pricing. It's where we are now, particularly with the millennial and post-millennial generation coming into disposable income and choosing experiences over things.

3) Ha. The classic, "my dog whistle is your personal shortcoming" rebuttle. Good one.
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Re: Dan DiDio Ousted From DC Comics

Post by IMJ »

SwiftMann wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:06:21 pm
1) No skewing. Just straight math. Source data could be problematic, but it's the go-to source for this site.
No. You cherry picked a singular piece of data to argue rather than solve and I'm not having it. The source data is not problematic as you've said. Instead, you used it opportunistically and now you are hiding from recognizing that by delivering this response.
SwiftMann wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:06:21 pm
2) I'd say that most physical collectibles or items are now considered boutique with boutique pricing. It's where we are now, particularly with the millennial and post-millennial generation coming into disposable income and choosing experiences over things.
Exactly. That's exactly the problem as I was illustrating it. So it seems that you do get the greater point but you don't want to acknowledge it openly. Once our generation of buyers begins drying up, there's going to be a market crash for these things. Hence, it's all in trouble - just like DC comics as I illustrated above regarding SJW initiatives, variant covers and boutique trade collections.
SwiftMann wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:06:21 pm
3) Ha. The classic, "my dog whistle is your personal shortcoming" rebuttle. Good one.
it's not a "good one". It's accurate. Stop talking about talking and then address the actual point, even if you have to type that you were wrong and used a metric to help a biased argument and that you have emotions about the truth of the SJW problem permeating comics right now. Your point number 3 is empty. It addresses nothing and further validates my point rather then "pointing something out". You failed. My points are put out there and they are clear and don't rely on your tactics.

I'm done - all the real points that should be addressed and discussed rationally are in writing up there in my post.

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Re: Dan DiDio Ousted From DC Comics

Post by reddog »

IMJ wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:39:31 pm
SwiftMann wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:41:45 pm
My post on a friend's FB link to the story.

I completely bailed on DC 10 years ago with the New 52 and was mostly on the way out for a few years before that. I feel like part of that was Didio's influence on the line.
This is actually how I feel about Joe Quesada. Not his personality - he's not the worst guy in the world. But I sort of trace every extremely liberal issue back to Joe Quesada's initial reign as EIC of Marvel Comics.

This is all illustrated by some of the things he said, some of the philosophies about various marvel IP's I've heard him discuss, and a large degree of ultra-liberal-minded processes came out of his reign - and to be clear when I say liberal-minded, I'm not speaking politically. Even worse - I'm talking behaviorally - like no plan, super shapeless BS - the throw all **** at the wall and see what sticks attitude.

And he had a warped perspective on the characters. He was the "One More Day" guy with Spider-Man who insisted that the character was failing in comics because of his marriage to M.J. He'd go on about how every single worthwhile Spider-Man story was told when he wasn't married and was in college.

Quesada had big opportunities with Quasar as well, but in an interview tore the character up completely warping that character's truth - instead of Wendell being a believer in life and energy who goes with the flow, Quesada minced the words into that the character "lacks the will to win" simply because he didn't like the character. Who knows why? Maybe because Quasar was a blue eyed, blond haired SHIELD agent and Quesada wanted anything that wasn't that wearing the Quantum Bands.

So I get it, man.
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Re: Dan DiDio Ousted From DC Comics

Post by buff-beardo »

I’m glad to see him go. Sorry to see somebody lose their job, but he’ll find another easily enough. Imo, DC’s stories were the best they’ve ever been for the 10 years prior to his becoming publisher. He was a good editor before becoming publisher. One he became publisher, he threw continuity out the window. New 52 was ultimate-ly (pun intended) a failure. I don’t have high hopes in Jim Lee fixing things either. However, I do have hopes that he will seek the assistance of others that can right the ship. Time will tell. I know one thing, Ethan Van Sciver isn’t helping matters with all his doom and gloom commentary. I have spoken.

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Re: Dan DiDio Ousted From DC Comics

Post by maraxusofkeld »

Is Geoff Johns still a creative force there? He might not be bad as publisher or they should try and get Karen Burger back. Why they ever left her leave is beyond me.

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Re: Dan DiDio Ousted From DC Comics

Post by geocarr »

maraxusofkeld wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:23:52 am
… they should try and get Karen Burger back. Why they ever left her leave is beyond me.
Agreed.
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Re: Dan DiDio Ousted From DC Comics

Post by IMJ »

maraxusofkeld wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:23:52 am
Is Geoff Johns still a creative force there? He might not be bad as publisher or they should try and get Karen Burger back. Why they ever left her leave is beyond me.
A guy I know is a huge GL fan - years of fandom, runs a GL forum, pro connections to the character - super fan. He has said that I guess there was a lot more bad blood between Geoff Johns and DiDio than most people knew about. To be honest, I was surprised by a lot of the vitriol I've seen directed at DiDio now that he's been ousted. It's probably because I'm not very deep into circles of true DC fans, but I didn't know there was so much fan-hate towards the guy.

Then again, everything is exacerbated on the internet - so who knows how big that backlash really is. Not me...

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Re: Dan DiDio Ousted From DC Comics

Post by dornwolf »

IMJ wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:51:37 pm
maraxusofkeld wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:23:52 am
Is Geoff Johns still a creative force there? He might not be bad as publisher or they should try and get Karen Burger back. Why they ever left her leave is beyond me.
A guy I know is a huge GL fan - years of fandom, runs a GL forum, pro connections to the character - super fan. He has said that I guess there was a lot more bad blood between Geoff Johns and DiDio than most people knew about. To be honest, I was surprised by a lot of the vitriol I've seen directed at DiDio now that he's been ousted. It's probably because I'm not very deep into circles of true DC fans, but I didn't know there was so much fan-hate towards the guy.

Then again, everything is exacerbated on the internet - so who knows how big that backlash really is. Not me...
I could easily see there being bad blood. The moment that Doomsday Clock slipped things like Heroes in Crisis were fired up and all the good will of Rebirth started to get burned

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Re: Dan DiDio Ousted From DC Comics

Post by Cyberstrike »

maraxusofkeld wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:23:52 am
Is Geoff Johns still a creative force there? He might not be bad as publisher or they should try and get Karen Burger back. Why they ever left her leave is beyond me.
DC should also get rid of Geoff Johns too, because he has helped to destroy DC just as much, if not more than DiBio, ever did.
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