The Bat-Thread

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Re: The Bat-Thread

Post by greg »

Most people have never seen this...

A panel from More Fun Comics #28 (January 1938) by Superman creators Siegel and Shuster, 16 months before Detective Comics #27:

Image

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Re: The Bat-Thread

Post by mkb28 »

greg wrote:Most people have never seen this...

A panel from More Fun Comics #28 (January 1938) by Superman creators Siegel and Shuster, 16 months before Detective Comics #27:

Image
Wow! :o

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Re: The Bat-Thread

Post by greg »

mkb28 wrote:
greg wrote:Most people have never seen this...

A panel from More Fun Comics #28 (January 1938) by Superman creators Siegel and Shuster, 16 months before Detective Comics #27:

Image
Wow! :o
Interestingly, throughout the Detective Comics #27 story (except for the cover), he is referred to as "Bat-Man" with the dash in the name, just like More Fun Comics #28.

The "Bat-Man" (or two Bat-Men) in More Fun Comics #28 are villains. The first Batman stories are anti-hero (vigilante detective), he had a gun, etc. The original Siegel story for Superman (in 1933) was also as a villain (he was more like a telepathic Lex Luthor).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Reign_of_the_Superman" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's very likely that Siegel "borrowed" the (villain) Superman story from author Francis Flagg, Wonder Stories, November 1931: "The Superman of Dr. Jukes" (who was a kind of villain, but he was committing crimes against mobsters, made powerful by Dr. Jukes' super-serum).
https://not.pulpcovers.com/post/1302159 ... f-dr-jukes" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The whole thing is very interesting... Siegel and Shuster were a couple of young guys trying to get into writing and illustrating by creating whatever was fun/popular/selling in (lightly illustrated) magazines (literally "Pulp Fiction" or Sci-Fi) at the time. The characters that came after Superman were variations on the superhero theme, but the superhero itself was basically just a new wrinkle on older stories.

It's really fun to make these discoveries 80+ years later. :thumb:

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Re: The Bat-Thread

Post by ShadowTuga »

greg wrote:
mkb28 wrote:
greg wrote:Most people have never seen this...

A panel from More Fun Comics #28 (January 1938) by Superman creators Siegel and Shuster, 16 months before Detective Comics #27:

Image
Wow! :o
Interestingly, throughout the Detective Comics #27 story (except for the cover), he is referred to as "Bat-Man" with the dash in the name, just like More Fun Comics #28.

The "Bat-Man" (or two Bat-Men) in More Fun Comics #28 are villains. The first Batman stories are anti-hero (vigilante detective), he had a gun, etc. The original Siegel story for Superman (in 1933) was also as a villain (he was more like a telepathic Lex Luthor).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Reign_of_the_Superman" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's very likely that Siegel "borrowed" the (villain) Superman story from author Francis Flagg, Wonder Stories, November 1931: "The Superman of Dr. Jukes" (who was a kind of villain, but he was committing crimes against mobsters, made powerful by Dr. Jukes' super-serum).
https://not.pulpcovers.com/post/1302159 ... f-dr-jukes" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The whole thing is very interesting... Siegel and Shuster were a couple of young guys trying to get into writing and illustrating by creating whatever was fun/popular/selling in (lightly illustrated) magazines (literally "Pulp Fiction" or Sci-Fi) at the time. The characters that came after Superman were variations on the superhero theme, but the superhero itself was basically just a new wrinkle on older stories.

It's really fun to make these discoveries 80+ years later. :thumb:
Great stuff, Greg- Thanks for sharing the panel, I had bever seen it and I do have a couple of History of Batman type of books.

So...
Ol' Bobby Kane had the mission of creating a Superman type of character, he had a weekend to do it, we know how Finger saved his butt and how bad, just BAD, the first story really is (and Kane ripped the *SQUEE* out of another comic from the era, I do think it is either a Shadow or Spirit story, there's a blog with all this stuff lined down, it reads like a deconstruction of a rip-off turned gold, if this makes sense :lol: ). Still, the Bat-wings were right there from the start, even if you buy all the Kane bull spat over the years.

And now we can probably add to the mythos of the Bat-birth "Kane just went through a bunch of comics done by the Superboys" then KABOOM!!!!! BAT-WINGS!!!!! I need to call that guy BILL, cause i just had an amazing idea!!!!!!"
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Re: The Bat-Thread

Post by greg »

ShadowTuga wrote:Great stuff, Greg- Thanks for sharing the panel, I had bever seen it and I do have a couple of History of Batman type of books.

So...
Ol' Bobby Kane had the mission of creating a Superman type of character, he had a weekend to do it, we know how Finger saved his butt and how bad, just BAD, the first story really is (and Kane ripped the *SQUEE* out of another comic from the era, I do think it is either a Shadow or Spirit story, there's a blog with all this stuff lined down, it reads like a deconstruction of a rip-off turned gold, if this makes sense :lol: ). Still, the Bat-wings were right there from the start, even if you buy all the Kane bull spat over the years.

And now we can probably add to the mythos of the Bat-birth "Kane just went through a bunch of comics done by the Superboys" then KABOOM!!!!! BAT-WINGS!!!!! I need to call that guy BILL, cause i just had an amazing idea!!!!!!"
Leonardo Da Vinci my a**.
Have you seen this one in other Bat-birth discussions?

Weird Tales, October 1933

Image

Pretty much a Batwoman/Catwoman prototype in a single image.

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Re: The Bat-Thread

Post by ShadowTuga »

greg wrote:
ShadowTuga wrote:Great stuff, Greg- Thanks for sharing the panel, I had bever seen it and I do have a couple of History of Batman type of books.

So...
Ol' Bobby Kane had the mission of creating a Superman type of character, he had a weekend to do it, we know how Finger saved his butt and how bad, just BAD, the first story really is (and Kane ripped the *SQUEE* out of another comic from the era, I do think it is either a Shadow or Spirit story, there's a blog with all this stuff lined down, it reads like a deconstruction of a rip-off turned gold, if this makes sense :lol: ). Still, the Bat-wings were right there from the start, even if you buy all the Kane bull spat over the years.

And now we can probably add to the mythos of the Bat-birth "Kane just went through a bunch of comics done by the Superboys" then KABOOM!!!!! BAT-WINGS!!!!! I need to call that guy BILL, cause i just had an amazing idea!!!!!!"
Leonardo Da Vinci my a**.
Have you seen this one in other Bat-birth discussions?

Weird Tales, October 1933

Image

Pretty much a Batwoman/Catwoman prototype in a single image.
I do wonder if that image came to influence those characters, even if they came to be a couple/more than 10 years after the Man was birthed. Cat had nothing, or a cat mask for her first apps, then she gained the domino mask :hm: ; Batwoman also indeed comes to mind here, since her mask was way more pointy and over-the-top. But, she is a CCA character and if there's a thing we all know about the era was that "stay away from controversy, guys" memo running 24/7 on the bullpens of the time. I do wonder if one of the people doing Bats (I gave up on following credits for all the Bat-stories in the CCA era for good, long ago :lol: ) picked this and tried to de-sex it as much as possible, for the kids. That'd be a really cool fun-fact.

I have no idea how widespread these WT mags were (HPL was a huge superstar writer for WT and he died basically penniless, so was WT that big?), but if it felt into the lap of one of the creators, its a pretty sure bet it influenced one of the 2 -or both - characters you mentioned, just because it begs to it: "Batarella sexy female character on the way!" If I was a betting man, it would be Cat, since she had no visual to speak of when she first appeared, the Cat mask was dumb and this cover screams "Meowwwww" even if it is a bat-lady. Maybe its the conditioning of seeing Catwoman looking like this since Forever Returns 8-) , that makes me think of her immediately.

Aside: I absolutely love that pulpy art stuff, just brings me back to places and years I never been to/lived through, or to put it simply, I always get a Lovecraftian vibe from this type of art, having automatically associated WT with the man for so many years, now. :D
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Re: The Bat-Thread

Post by ShadowTuga »

DP, sorry but this is kinda hot. :P
I went and looked what the actual contents for this issue were, mostly to see iof there was a HPL here (there is, "The Festival" 1st reprint), BUT that's not why I am Double-posting.

There's a story simply called "The Cat-Woman", by a lady named Mary Elisabeth Counselman. :o
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Re: The Bat-Thread

Post by IMJ »

I am suddenly very interested in that Weird Tales book and I don't know why. And there's one on eBay with an asking price that is returning my disinterest. I wouldn't pay that even for original Lovecraft pulps... lol

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Re: The Bat-Thread

Post by The Dirt Gang »

IMJ wrote:I am suddenly very interested in that Weird Tales book and I don't know why. And there's one on eBay with an asking price that is returning my disinterest. I wouldn't pay that even for original Lovecraft pulps... lol
:funnypost:

That's a gorgeous cover to Weird Tales. :clap:
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Re: The Bat-Thread

Post by ShadowTuga »

... and after more than a year since my last post here, I'm back to talk a bit about my current reads. Not that many, tbh. :|

Batman (Tom King)- I truly loved the most of this run, 2 or 3 issues were decompressed as hell, but the man always came back with another twist made plot made story arc that was awesome. I dug the wedding story, like way more than I should. And its kinda stupid, but the funnest of that bunch of issues (although it is sort of a dream/memory thing) was Lois and Selina getting wasted in the Fortress of Solitude. I loved that issue, the "juxtaposition" of the ackward gentlemen's night between Bats and Clark, and then the drunk fest of those 2 gals. I said it before in this place, but King is the guy that made Batman, the comic, feel more like an indie book at points. Great character moments, correction, superb character moments. He really can deliver a story that is both fun, exciting and has sweet moments thrown in there, just as an afterthought, almost. Its not Bendis' forced (IMHO) talking heads stuff, it has a rl rhythm of not being too wordy and still come out as a "real" moment between the characters.

And that's it, for now. I completely changed my buying habits in the last year, so I'm not following anything that is from the main line/your usual monthlies. I got the King issues from ebay, had them stacked in a room for a couple months, unread until now.

I also have ordered the "author's books" by Miller (DKR The Golden Child), Murphy (Curse of the White Knight), Snyder/Capullo (Last Knight on Earth/Dark Nights Death Metal) and of course, the new Batman The Adventures Continue mini series by Paul Dini, Alan Burnett and the MAGNIFICENT Ty Templeton (along with the new Dollar Comics' reprints of the og Batman Adventures series :P ).
I am very excited about all these books, like I haven't been for current comics in a long time, it feels.

I'm also tempted to check The Batman Who Laughs mini, BUT still on the fence: I don't want anything to do with big 2 comics done on a monthly basis at the moment, and that series is just "a special add-on" for those, basically. But its Snyder. :P

Other than that, I have Doomsday Clock to read, bought the tpb a few days ago and I admit i'm really curious on how that ended, since the schedule on this book just made me quit it at the time.

ATM I'm pretty much the Batfan I was pre New 52- buying stuff that I had heard/read was good, not following the monthly offerings, and completely out of the buzz and noise the industry produces.
Last edited by ShadowTuga on Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:54:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Bat-Thread

Post by ShadowTuga »

Image

Just an update on my previous post: when i wrote it, i had not yet reached the final arc of the series, did it a couple days later. I have been out of the comic noise sites and avoided spoilers for you know what -Batman #77- so it actually caught me by surprise.

That said, f DC for insisting that Alfred should die, for real. I know that this is going to be undone in some way, maybe next year, maybe next decade. But as a uberfan of this character and what he brings to the comics when he's well written... i want to punch editorial people. I don't blame King for being the guy who did it, because it was supposed to be undone at the end of his run. I am already thinking of the "Return of the Outsider" story or some other gimmicky plotline, but above all, the years to come without Alfred's dry humour and humbling "goodness" that we all love. Its yet one more reason for me to not be interested in the current state of the main line books. The 2 big Batman series look almost like the same type of book right now, with the Detective Comics Bat-family gone and Bruce running around with Damian. Its Tomasi writing it, and I should be way more hyped than I am, but its one of those things "if its really good as peeps say, i'll read it later".
And James Tynion IV on the Batman title does not excite me nearly as half as when he was doing the aforementioned Bat-family thing in Detective. He writes fun comics, but I am starting to feel he's the Chuck Dixon of this generation of Batman scribes- he can deliver some Great fun comics, but don't expect Genius level storytelling. Either way, I would reccomend his Detective run to a fan of Batman & Friends (or better, just the Friends) any day. Its really entertaining and you can easily see he loves these characters.

I have pre-ordered the Three Jokers mini, *SQUEE*, if there's one thing I want to know about the current DCU is what the hell is behind these dorks. I am sure its got to be more than just 3 Joker dudes from three different earths. If it is that, I'll be very disappointed. Unless Geoff Johns does his best work ever. :P

Also pre-ordered a couple of tie ins for the Death Metal event, namely the guidebook and the Robin King one-shot. I really want to read this asap, hopefuly the first 2 issues will arrive at my doorstep this week.

I decided to grab a copy of the BWL mini, and it is actually very fun to read. I even "liked" evil-Batman-with-guns a.k.a. The Grim Knight. :lol: at this guy's superduper90sbada** name. Nothing to scream about, but i had a good time reading it, there's some clever stuff in here, in a "villains are Batman so they are smart as hell" kind of way. If you like the character, get this, it doesn't cheapen the WTF moments we had when Metal was rolling out, at least, when read with some distance.

And to end in a sort of meh note, I am disappointed with the "Adventures continue" mini so far- read the first 2 only. Hope it gets better later, I don't recognise Dini's writing in here, almost. Feels like a very light read, unlike the original comics, not to mention the animated series. I know that this was a sort of tie-in to the new action figure line, like when the toy companies of the 80s used to advertise their stuff, but from Dini I always expect really Great storytelling. Will get the rest of it, because its BTAS. But won't probably go back to it like I do with the og comics.

That doesn't mean I won't be getting a Jason Todd and Deathstroke figures as soon as they pop up here. Love the fact that DC is doing this, its really a love letter to everyone who is a fan of the show and the toy line that ran through 2014-2018.
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Re: The Bat-Thread

Post by ShadowTuga »

... and I'm back at collecting monthly comics. facepalm :lol:

I wasn't going to do it, I swear, but I went yesterday to my LCS, and they had the entirety of Tynion's run on Batman so far, save for 2 issues. I grabbed them all, cover price of f*cking course, and when I got home I discover that the market has really gone stupid with Punchline. People are STILL speculating on Batman #89, Hell Arisen #3 and that design variant from #92, like she is the new Harley. :lol: I think the character's not all that, tbh, and even the fact that I got a 1st print of 89 for cover does not make me feel lucky. Imho, it reminds me of the 2013 Joker's Daughter fever.

I honestly think this is just the market being stupid, and given that its Batman stuff, its stupid times 10.

Anyway, I decided to give Tynion's run a fair chance, and since he's working with TOP Batman artists, I know that at least the pretty pictures are there for cash value. :P Hopefully this whole Joker War thing is actually Good.

I also grabbed the latest issue of Adventures Continue - Deathstroke was done very well and I LOVED that he's using the Godkiller sword from Tony Danie'sl run - and Three Jokers, finally. It looks amazing and Johns said its really NOT a Multiverse/Timeline thing, so there's something to be curious about here. I can't wait to read it tonight.

EDIT - Three Jokers #1 was an awesome, AWESOME read. Its all setup but it pays off with a fantastic cliffhanger and I dare anyone to read it and not wanting to know the follow up. Best Batman comic of the year in the making? The art is absolutely crazy beautiful. That alone would make the book worth the price, almost, but make no mistake, Geoff Johns is pulling some great stuff here, and this was just the beginning. I really can't see this letting me down, given it is a Black Label, not-in-continuity story, where they can do all sorts of stuff you don't usually see in the main line AND more importantly, I LOVE the direction this is going. I'm all in on this being amn instant classic by the time it ends.
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Re: The Bat-Thread

Post by ShadowTuga »

Some thought on my reads of this week:

- Batman: Universe - One of the worst Batman books that i've read in a long time. BEAUTIFUL ART, though, but that doesn't make up for the lame story here. I just rolled my eyes non-stop while reading it.
Batman sounds like a moron here, and hahahahasofunnyhereallylikesDinosaurshesaidittwicehahahahaha. The whole plot is an excuse for Bendis to try his hand at the DCU, we see Thanagar and Dinosaur Island, Jonah Hex, the Guardians, etc. I honestly bought this for the art alone, because it looked unique and again, BEAUTIFUL, but I don't think I will ever reread this crap story ever again.

Tynion's Batman run up to Joker War - I knew this wasn't going to be anything spectacular, and I was right. I am not a fan of Tynion writing this book, he is just not that good of a writer yet for the main title, and it shows. The first "Designer arc" was one of those generic Batman stories where it is all Build Up, AND THEN... MORE BUILD UP!!!! And then it's EVENT time- and from there, MORE BUILD UP!!!! Nothing feels like a "start to finish" story, just a bunch of stuff that is happening, and then more stuff happens.
Punchline is ok, I guess, but I am yet to be convinced of her future potential- and DC shoving one shot and specials down my throat will probably make me hate the character, if the story isn't top notch. The anti-Harley? Is this actually a character that someone felt was missing? She doesn't have a unique quality other than being "Joker's definitely-not-funny-and-way-more-psycho-clown-girlfriend"... :?

And to end with a positive note.
I grabbed the first collection of Tomasi's run on Detective, and this made up for all the nonsense i got from "Universe". Superb story, just Superb. Its the word I think honestly describes this little gem. The ending had me trying to stop a tear from falling, really wonderful. I don't know if the rest of his run is this good, but I am really glad I gave this trade a try, it was a surprisingly GOOD story that I'll probably remember for a long time.
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Re: The Bat-Thread

Post by geocarr »

ShadowTuga wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:44:38 pm
And to end with a positive note.
I grabbed the first collection of Tomasi's run on Detective, and this made up for all the nonsense i got from "Universe". Superb story, just Superb. Its the word I think honestly describes this little gem. The ending had me trying to stop a tear from falling, really wonderful. I don't know if the rest of his run is this good, but I am really glad I gave this trade a try, it was a surprisingly GOOD story that I'll probably remember for a long time.
What's the name of this trade or story arc?
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Re: The Bat-Thread

Post by ShadowTuga »

Mythology, vol. 01 of the yet again renumbered TPB series. :thumb:
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Re: The Bat-Thread

Post by tarheelmarine »

Good to hear about Three Jokers. I was debating ordering a copy, now I am going to get it.


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