Speculation

[Phantom..]

Something I didn't get a chance to talk to Ian about.

So I will bring it up here ~ this is not about valiant relaunch.

Over the last three years I have seen new books climbing to very high prices. I have seen new books, as in current month of release selling for 3 or 4 times cover. And yet it is only the first of the series ?

Marvel has gotten heavly back into variants, second prints etc. They will do anything to bring in a buck. Image (to my limited knowledge) isn't so over the top.

I feel, everyone is looking for the next 'Walking Dead' or the next 'Chew ? (don't know what it sells for). Marvel collectors are after rare second prints hoping that the story will be super important to the charactor and bump the price.

CGC had us on a ride, between the last speculator craze. I just feel, more recently it is beginning to start again I just feel that people are buying and selling new books speculating on the next big thing

Please note this is separate from people who are investing in comics, key older books.

They have they always been their, it just seems their is more and more since 'Walking DEad'.

[kevinbastos]

Sad, but this desperation killed comic books in the nineties for me. I was flipping through books last night and scoffed at the poly-bagged, trading card variant, second printed versions of X-Force that I owned - worse less than toilet paper, and crummy stories to boot.

It destroyed them from their perch then. Wasn't their market share twice DC's at that point?

If they're fighting to get the second-print variants, etc out there again - they must be scrambling for cash.

Ugh.

[Draco]

Something I didn't get a chance to talk to Ian about.

So I will bring it up here ~ this is not about valiant relaunch.

Over the last three years I have seen new books climbing to very high prices. I have seen new books, as in current month of release selling for 3 or 4 times cover. And yet it is only the first of the series ?

Marvel has gotten heavly back into variants, second prints etc. They will do anything to bring in a buck. Image (to my limited knowledge) isn't so over the top.

I feel, everyone is looking for the next 'Walking Dead' or the next 'Chew ? (don't know what it sells for). Marvel collectors are after rare second prints hoping that the story will be super important to the charactor and bump the price.

CGC had us on a ride, between the last speculator craze. I just feel, more recently it is beginning to start again I just feel that people are buying and selling new books speculating on the next big thing

Please note this is separate from people who are investing in comics, key older books.

They have they always been their, it just seems their is more and more since 'Walking DEad'.

Nice thread dude and just as well we didnt get started on this topic the other day
Yes people are looking to speculate on new product, but that i guess is the entrepreneur in us all, or simply that we cannot get started on the older stuff due to costs and availabililty, so the next new book that might be a hit will do nicely. You just have to look through the Image section of previews to see what new book may have the speculators spending $30 the week after release.

The variant side of things appear for me to be under control after all this time and if anything are quite welcome by most people i speak to when dealt with correctly. By correctly i mean that retailers are mainly ordering the correct amounts of a book, not over ordering to get a 1 in 10 or 25 variant and being left with unsellable issues to get something to sell for £20 that devalues like a new car. Also as there are so many variants by so many publishers at the 1 in 10 type, most retailers have finally started to be more reasonable about the prices they charge from day one let alone after 6 months. I pick up what i want as always after six months, often finding great looking covers for less than cover
I like that Marvel have done themed variants across the titles, especuially when a new movie is released, some of the Iron Man ones were outstanding. I am also picking up the 70th anniversary covers with the borders much like the 25 ann covers Marvel did back in '86.

CGC were not my cup of tea when i first saw what they did, but given what i see from week to week on grading from new to old, they are welcome just so you can have as good as an opinion as exists. New books slabbed is bollox, but older issues where the grading is much more important and can mean thousands between grades is a massive help.

[400yrs]

A bit of speculation is definitely occuring right now, but I feel that it's tapering off. IMO, from an Image standpoint it was at its height when Skullkickers #1 came out and has tapered off since then.

What Marvel second prints are you referring to as being hot? The only one that I know of is the ASM Omit 2nd print and it's hot just because there aren't many out there (there probably weren't many ordered).

You just have to look through the Image section of previews to see what new book may have the speculators spending $30 the week after release.

This seems to be the mentality of most people, but if you look at it objectively, you'd realize that this is not true at all. For the rare Image #1 that sells for 2x cover or more, there are probably 5-6 other #1s that don't do anything at all. If you are speculating on Image comics by buying all the #1, you are losing a ton of money. The book has to be good and innovative. Not many Image #1s fit that bill.

[Chiclo]

You just have to look through the Image section of previews to see what new book may have the speculators spending $30 the week after release.

This seems to be the mentality of most people, but if you look at it objectively, you'd realize that this is not true at all. For the rare Image #1 that sells for 2x cover or more, there are probably 5-6 other #1s that don't do anything at all. If you are speculating on Image comics by buying all the #1, you are losing a ton of money. The book has to be good and innovative. Not many Image #1s fit that bill.

I have been speculating on a lot of Image #1s lately. I have been buying them, not intending to flip them for a profit but just to read them and see how I like the story.

It's scary but I am really enjoying a lot of these titles. Carbon Grey, Moriarty, Netherworld, Artifacts, 'Breed and Gladstones School for World Conquerors are books that always make it to the top of my stack now.

[400yrs]

It's scary but I am really enjoying a lot of these titles. Carbon Grey, Moriarty, Netherworld, Artifacts, 'Breed and Gladstones School for World Conquerors are books that always make it to the top of my stack now.

What is Moriarty about? The other ones didn't really get my interest up.

I am getting Gladstone's School for World Conquerors. I liked the first issue, but it kind of jumped around too much for me. Too many characters for a first issue. I have 2 and 3 on order and will decide after that.

A book that is a bit similar that I'm enjoying is Intrepids. The art is somewhat similar to Gladstones and to me the story is a bit more direct.

[Phantom..]

Speculation on second prints ~ their has been a few (names don't come to mind ~ manly because I don't buy marvel comics). Saying that maybe some have been DC.

What is hot NOW, continues to be hot, doesn't mean others have fallen by the wayside.

That second print comment aside,
Draco ~ is it just in the UK?, but every new image title seems 'the next big thing'. ALso its seems that image as a company is running with it for now.

You seem a bit more tolerant of the variants ~ cross company ones are fun. The blank covers for sketches by artists are welcome ~ but useless without the sketch.

Morning glories has a 1/1000 variant ~ I mean really. Come on. The funny thing is they are cheap now. No one wants them. I wonder ,morning glories, as an example of speculators buying in and now dumping stock ~ thinking it was the next Walking DEAD.

Next London show (i go to) it would be interesting to see how much they are going for now.

I know I say walking dead alot, but for me thats what people are speculating for ~ the next big thing.

[400yrs]

Morning glories has a 1/1000 variant ~ I mean really. Come on. The funny thing is they are cheap now. No one wants them. I wonder ,morning glories, as an example of speculators buying in and now dumping stock ~ thinking it was the next Walking DEAD.

There's no 1/1000 variant. It's a Larry's variant and there are probably about 1,000 of them.

That may be true, but I also remember buying 10 packs of the Invincible 1 Larry's variant for $30 because no one wanted them (1,000 copies of a variant is a lot dropped all at one time). Now, I can regularly move them for $25-30 apiece.

[Unblessed]

people will always look for the next big thing.

If I can scam out of doing actual work, it will be easier and make me richer than you poor people... You know I'm all about easy money.





Speculators and collectors are fickle.

If comic books made people rich, there would be comic shops on every street corner. The point is being in business to acutally MAKE MONEY is hard. It ain't easy. You need to weather the ups AND the DOWNS.
(Replace "comic books" with "coins" as I took this little diddy from a coin forum.)

When the music stops, you better be the one with the cash in hand and not the bag holder.

[wokuya]

I've noticed the Image "boom" and Marvel's variants but they haven't really affected my purchasing habits.

I can't afford to speculate. When there's a title I'm interested in that is suddenly deemed "hot" with #1 priced beyond reasonable I don't sweat it -- I just wait for the inevitable trade or HC.

On the flip side, should I happen to have ordered a book in advance that suddenly bumps up -- AND I don't like it -- it's off to eBay! Doesn't happen all that often, though.

[Draco]

A bit of speculation is definitely occuring right now, but I feel that it's tapering off. IMO, from an Image standpoint it was at its height when Skullkickers #1 came out and has tapered off since then.

What Marvel second prints are you referring to as being hot? The only one that I know of is the ASM Omit 2nd print and it's hot just because there aren't many out there (there probably weren't many ordered).

You just have to look through the Image section of previews to see what new book may have the speculators spending $30 the week after release.

This seems to be the mentality of most people, but if you look at it objectively, you'd realize that this is not true at all. For the rare Image #1 that sells for 2x cover or more, there are probably 5-6 other #1s that don't do anything at all. If you are speculating on Image comics by buying all the #1, you are losing a ton of money. The book has to be good and innovative. Not many Image #1s fit that bill.

I always imagine a heap of people waiting with baited breath each months to see which book they can scour the stores for to flip


Silly really as like you say not many of the books do any good business say past double cover, but people are always looking for or wanting that next big thing, though it has indeed slowed down of recent.

[superman-prime]

big events are killing the hobby out there here and everywhere ive seen

with money the way it is most I knew were ok buying 5 new comics a month for say gl or the ultimate U or superman or batman for their fix but now

you just can not do that and many casual readers are leaving the comic world almost any shop owner i deal with says sales are down farther then the last few years with only the hardcore / make a buck people left

I buy around 100 new issues a month for resale for the most part and the GL 6 issues thats about it so im dropping around 250 each month (with a huge discount to pay that little) but i make more then i spend so its all good for me
but with the market continuing to kill itself the dealer i use is hoping to last 2 more years at best unless cover comes down or tie ins cut back or the big E gets better

[Doorman]

FYI "big events" have been going on since the days of Secret Wars II and Millennium. they're not a new thing ... nor do i find them problematic.

Marvel's seemed to work out a pretty good way of making it so that you DON'T have to buy all the tie-ins .. but, if you do, you just get a broader perspective on the story.

[superman-prime]

big events have bee around forever true there but 1 leads in to another and another and so on no breaks between.

civil war and dark reign tied in to everything and if you read your few books bud did not read the main title and more you were out of luck, esp in the avengers books and many can not or do not want to buy 20 or more a month at 3 or more bucks

[Jersen]

big events have bee around forever true there but 1 leads in to another and another and so on no breaks between.

civil war and dark reign tied in to everything and if you read your few books bud did not read the main title and more you were out of luck, esp in the avengers books and many can not or do not want to buy 20 or more a month at 3 or more bucks

I'm not much of a Marvel guy anymore, in fact, the only Marvel book I follow now is Invincible Iron Man. Back when Dark Reign was going on, IIM was listed as a Dark Reign tie-in for, what, 8 or 9 months? I wasn't reading anything else from Marvel and had no trouble understanding what was going on in that book. I never felt that I needed to buy anything else to get a full grip on what was going on in IIM.

Similarly, I didn't read Blackest Night, but many of the DC books I followed at the time were listed as Blackest Night tie-ins. Just like with IIM, I didn't have to go pick up Blackest Night in order to understand the JLA BN tie-in issue. But I bet for the people that did read BN, that JLA tie-in painted a little broader of a picture of what was going on.

[Unblessed]

Remember to print this thread out as it is a Blackest Night tie in. You need it to help with the epologue...

[Chiclo]

It's scary but I am really enjoying a lot of these titles. Carbon Grey, Moriarty, Netherworld, Artifacts, 'Breed and Gladstones School for World Conquerors are books that always make it to the top of my stack now.

What is Moriarty about? The other ones didn't really get my interest up.

I am getting Gladstone's School for World Conquerors. I liked the first issue, but it kind of jumped around too much for me. Too many characters for a first issue. I have 2 and 3 on order and will decide after that.

A book that is a bit similar that I'm enjoying is Intrepids. The art is somewhat similar to Gladstones and to me the story is a bit more direct.

I think I am going to drop Intrepids. It is not holding my interest.

Moriarty is about Professor James Moriarty, 20 years or so after he survived the final conflict with Sherlock Holmes. It is the eve of WWI and he is barely scraping out a living under an assumed name as a detective. Moriarty has always been one of my favourite literary characters and this treatment of him is (thus far) interesting, captivating and consistent with his Victorian appearances.

[cplsimon]

In the case of Image #1's, I think that the speculations have been good for the industry as a whole. The current state of the speculator boom on Image #1's is alowing Image to take more risk on new writers and new ideas. They have the safety net of knowing that people will buy almost anything new that they put out. I admit some of it has no buissnes being in print, but some of it is very good. If speculators drive that then so be it. Eventualy the market will decide what the true value is, and what should stay.

We have to accept that speculators help us. Our hobby makes people money. It makes most of you money. If the books would become worthless readership would drop to a fraction of what it is. People would stop buying multiple copys of issues. They would only buy what they want to actually read. How long before publishers stop printing.

[Draco]

In the case of Image #1's, I think that the speculations have been good for the industry as a whole. The current state of the speculator boom on Image #1's is alowing Image to take more risk on new writers and new ideas. They have the safety net of knowing that people will buy almost anything new that they put out. I admit some of it has no buissnes being in print, but some of it is very good. If speculators drive that then so be it. Eventualy the market will decide what the true value is, and what should stay.

We have to accept that speculators help us. Our hobby makes people money. It makes most of you money. If the books would become worthless readership would drop to a fraction of what it is. People would stop buying multiple copys of issues. They would only buy what they want to actually read. How long before publishers stop printing.

I agree that people buying more comics is great for the industry, but not if they are buying comics that came out last week for $30 that isnt going back into the industry, which im afraid is most likely the case with hot books and hype.
I dont thing speculators help us, not sure how that is possible as the books they bough first hand were few, hence them being hot, it isnt people all buying ten copies from every store across the nation.
So the money to the store, to the distributor to the publisher to the creators only happens once ( second prints dont sell massive and tpbs are tiny tiny now).
What happens is speculators charge crazy money for books that mostly get hype for the wrong reasons, there are always a bunch of books more deserving of the attention the Hype books get, plus again the money isnt being spent on ten titles, it's being spent on one and if it's to a speculator that money isnt going back into the industry at all.

I have said a hundred times that i would rather see people spend that $30 on a bunch of books that are deserving, the more speculation there is the more likely a retailer is to not work hard at pro actively selling quality.

As for people only buying what they want to read, im almost at a loss for words here, well almost, if people stopped buying multiples of books hoping to flip them and make a quick buck over buying recommended high quality books creators slaved over the industry would no doubt thrive.

Overall i think what you wrote is about as far from what i believe as is possible.

[sanman]

I don’t have Darco’s retail insight, but as a reader and collector I mostly side with his position. Granted speculation may be good for generating a buzz and/or new traffic. However, fans who buy into it are more than likely going to become grossly disappointed at some point—leading to overall disillusionment (something that Valiant fans should know about). Or, as in the case with your deaths, Obama covers, etc., a retailer might get a nice little bump but these buyer’s aren’t going to be around next month.

The bottom line is that speculation opens the opportunity for readers and buyers to get burned. Burned enough, you have the ’90 comic book implosion. Anyone who has tried talking to a LCS owner who has a long box of Torok #1 into carrying the Valiant HCs, Dark Key line, or the new Valiant line can tell you that speculation isn’t good for the comic book industry.

[xodacia81]

It's scary but I am really enjoying a lot of these titles. Carbon Grey, Moriarty, Netherworld, Artifacts, 'Breed and Gladstones School for World Conquerors are books that always make it to the top of my stack now.

What is Moriarty about? The other ones didn't really get my interest up.

I am getting Gladstone's School for World Conquerors. I liked the first issue, but it kind of jumped around too much for me. Too many characters for a first issue. I have 2 and 3 on order and will decide after that.

A book that is a bit similar that I'm enjoying is Intrepids. The art is somewhat similar to Gladstones and to me the story is a bit more direct.

I think I am going to drop Intrepids. It is not holding my interest.

Moriarty is about Professor James Moriarty, 20 years or so after he survived the final conflict with Sherlock Holmes. It is the eve of WWI and he is barely scraping out a living under an assumed name as a detective. Moriarty has always been one of my favourite literary characters and this treatment of him is (thus far) interesting, captivating and consistent with his Victorian appearances.

Now that sounds good. How many issues have been published and is it an ongoing or limited run series?

[Chiclo]

It's scary but I am really enjoying a lot of these titles. Carbon Grey, Moriarty, Netherworld, Artifacts, 'Breed and Gladstones School for World Conquerors are books that always make it to the top of my stack now.

What is Moriarty about? The other ones didn't really get my interest up.

I am getting Gladstone's School for World Conquerors. I liked the first issue, but it kind of jumped around too much for me. Too many characters for a first issue. I have 2 and 3 on order and will decide after that.

A book that is a bit similar that I'm enjoying is Intrepids. The art is somewhat similar to Gladstones and to me the story is a bit more direct.

I think I am going to drop Intrepids. It is not holding my interest.

Moriarty is about Professor James Moriarty, 20 years or so after he survived the final conflict with Sherlock Holmes. It is the eve of WWI and he is barely scraping out a living under an assumed name as a detective. Moriarty has always been one of my favourite literary characters and this treatment of him is (thus far) interesting, captivating and consistent with his Victorian appearances.

Now that sounds good. How many issues have been published and is it an ongoing or limited run series?

Second issue ships tomorrow. I have not seen any indication that this is a limited series but often times, Image does not advertise that fact for several months.

[OmenSpirits.com]

Remember to print this thread out as it is a Blackest Night tie in. You need it to help with the epologue...

No, no, for this thread to be of value, it's got to fall off the first page, for 5 weeks after the last post, then be reposted in a TPB.

[xodacia81]

It's scary but I am really enjoying a lot of these titles. Carbon Grey, Moriarty, Netherworld, Artifacts, 'Breed and Gladstones School for World Conquerors are books that always make it to the top of my stack now.

What is Moriarty about? The other ones didn't really get my interest up.

I am getting Gladstone's School for World Conquerors. I liked the first issue, but it kind of jumped around too much for me. Too many characters for a first issue. I have 2 and 3 on order and will decide after that.

A book that is a bit similar that I'm enjoying is Intrepids. The art is somewhat similar to Gladstones and to me the story is a bit more direct.

I think I am going to drop Intrepids. It is not holding my interest.

Moriarty is about Professor James Moriarty, 20 years or so after he survived the final conflict with Sherlock Holmes. It is the eve of WWI and he is barely scraping out a living under an assumed name as a detective. Moriarty has always been one of my favourite literary characters and this treatment of him is (thus far) interesting, captivating and consistent with his Victorian appearances.

Now that sounds good. How many issues have been published and is it an ongoing or limited run series?

Second issue ships tomorrow. I have not seen any indication that this is a limited series but often times, Image does not advertise that fact for several months.

I will have to see if the LCS still has any copies.

[Phantom..]

In the case of Image #1's, I think that the speculations have been good for the industry as a whole. The current state of the speculator boom on Image #1's is alowing Image to take more risk on new writers and new ideas. They have the safety net of knowing that people will buy almost anything new that they put out. I admit some of it has no buissnes being in print, but some of it is very good. If speculators drive that then so be it. Eventualy the market will decide what the true value is, and what should stay.

We have to accept that speculators help us. Our hobby makes people money. It makes most of you money. If the books would become worthless readership would drop to a fraction of what it is. People would stop buying multiple copys of issues. They would only buy what they want to actually read. How long before publishers stop printing.

It already has. Print runs are a fraction it was.
Publishers do stop printing ~ The Dark Key line.

I would rather quality books over hyped rubbish ~ thus the DU collector in me.

Speculators do not make me money. You have to sell books to make money. They make the paper in my storage boxes expensive ~ they do not make me money.

Speculators have been good for the industry? And you say that on a valiant fans site. No offence, but speculation helped kill valiant.