Mark Waid talking Comicsgate.

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Re: Mark Waid talking Comicsgate.

Post by possumgrease »

greg wrote:You're a reasonable guy. What would you cite for this statement?
Chiclo wrote:The change in climate is not caused by man nor do we contribute significantly to it.
Here is a citation that says otherwise: https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
“Multiple studies published in peer-reviewed scientific journals1 show that 97 percent or more of actively publishing climate scientists agree*: Climate-warming trends over the past century are extremely likely due to human activities”
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Re: Mark Waid talking Comicsgate.

Post by lorddunlow »

This thread is Bantha poodoo. I'd rather watch The Last Jedi again.

The Chiclo posts were sorta funny though.

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Re: Mark Waid talking Comicsgate.

Post by Chiclo »

greg wrote:You're a reasonable guy. What would you cite for this statement?
Chiclo wrote:The change in climate is not caused by man nor do we contribute significantly to it.
Here is a citation that says otherwise: https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Perhaps I would better express my thought as "the change in climate is not precipitated by man"? I do believe our activities do contribute in the smallest of ways but that the change would have happened anyway without our involvement?

I have to say that I am suspicious that some of those 97% of those climate scientists say that the Earth is warming because that is what the grant money wants them to say. Like professional football, too much money has made science impure.

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Re: Mark Waid talking Comicsgate.

Post by Chiclo »

lorddunlow wrote:The Chiclo posts were sorta funny though.
Just a spoon full of sugar helps the poodoo go down.

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Re: Mark Waid talking Comicsgate.

Post by Sven the Returned »

Chiclo wrote:
lorddunlow wrote:The Chiclo posts were sorta funny though.
Just a spoon full of sugar helps the poodoo go down.
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Re: Mark Waid talking Comicsgate.

Post by Zhuge1 »

TheFerg714 wrote:
Zhuge1 wrote:So, to try to somewhat steer this back to the topic and to move to a productive discussion --

First -- is comicsgate and the D&C following one and the same? Or simply connected? I'd be interested to hear from those who support comicsgate how they view both.
Okay first of all, I really appreciate you just talking. You've actually been making me rethink some things, but we still disagree on a lot, and it's totally fine. I think you're right when you say that the alt-right and sjw essentially have the same function in conversation, but ironherc nailed it on the head when he said they simply mean different things. SJW is meant to mock, and honestly, most sjw's love the title of Social Justice Warrior, whereas being called alt-right and nazi almost never hold any water.
Secondly, I think D&C is just what you would call a figurehead. So yea, he's kind of synonymous with comicsgate in the same way that EVS is, but it's not like all people who support aspects of comicsgate like and/or support D&C as well. I, for one, am a fan, but I disagree with about half of his reviews, and I think sometimes he can take a very shallow approach and almost hate something before he even opens it. I was p***ed about his Valiant reviews. That said, I think he really nails it sometimes, especially when weird politics start cropping up. But really, his bigger "contribution" to comicsgate is his Twitter/culture war videos. He's actually gone through some sketchy crap orchestrated by people like Mark Waid, and he's great at pointing out people who take their politics way too far.
I'm good with agreeing to disagree, but also glad that you're open to re-thinking stuff.

What's EVS?

Admittedly, I've only listened to a few of his reviews (and only of the books I've actually taken the time to read). I did think that in BP and the Crew (which honestly should likely just be called The Crew since Misty Knight was the primary character and T'Challa was more of a subsidiary one), his reviews were overly negative and that he had pre-judged the comic before reading it.

What are the Twitter/culture war videos? Feel free to ping me directly with a link if you don't want to post those links in this thread and I'll take the time to watch them.
Second, for those on either side of the issue -- how do you feel about some of the titles from Marvel that are on the radar of D&C? I've read Black Panther and Black Panther and the Crew. I really enjoyed Coates' run on Black Panther through the first main storyline (a Nation Under our Feet). I've read the first trade of his second story arc (Avengers of the New World) and thought it missed a step. I didn't find any political aspects of either that were overly forced (aside from the focus on democracy over monarchy in A Nation Under Our Feet). I've mentioned further up that I was a fan of the Crew title (especially the art -- as a result I've purchased several pages of OA from it) and didn't find any true "forced" politics in it.

What other titles fall on the radar that folks have read? I know the Thor titles featuring the female version; the Hulk comics (Totally Awesome Hulk); and the Captain America books featuring Falcon. What else? Ms. Marvel (which I've heard is quite good)?

Of those books, who has taken the time to read them? Regardless of the politics -- are the stories good?
I think he liked the recent Black Panther #1.

I've read some of the stuff he's reviewed, but not all of it obviously. And there has been times where he has actively made me not buy a book.
I read a few issues of Iceman, and agree with everything D&C said about. Iceman's literally a 90's sitcom character being as obviously gay as he possibly can.
And obviously I've read the major books he reviewed like Batman #50 and Man of Steel. I wish I could say that I'd read more of these, as you put it, "on the radar" books, but I tend to read the first issue, realize it sucks, and go on with my day. If D&C and other YouTubers point out stuff that I'd rather not support, I sometimes don't feel the need to try out those books.
So I guess my answer is that I read some of the stuff he reviews, but not all of it, and I agree with some of what he says, but not all of it.
Sounds good. I would likely not read Iceman as I've no interest in that character, but I'll try to read some of the stuff that he specifically takes issue with if I can find the collected editions on KU or on sale (perhaps Comixology will have some decent sales in line with Prime Day).
On the opposite side, who has read the stuff from the D&C guy? I doubt I'll ever come across Jawbreakers, but I did see that he released a large portion of his second graphic novel (Iron Sights) on his funding site (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/iron ... tube-books#/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;), so I read it. To be honest, I thought the dialog was overly forced in that he seemed to try too hard to throw in offensive words just to add them (and maybe there's some irony in there since he doesn't care for "forced diversity" or politics in comics), but I liked the art and thought the overall story line seemed interesting enough.
I don't really care at all about D&C's comics. If it ever comes out in stores for $4, I'll probably pick it up, but I refuse to spend $25 on something that might not even be good.
I can understand that approach.

Anyone else read his stuff (not sure if Jawbreakers has actually shipped, but as I mention, he does have an extensive sample of the other one on the site). If so, thoughts?

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Re: Mark Waid talking Comicsgate.

Post by greg »

Chiclo wrote:I have to say that I am suspicious that some of those 97% of those climate scientists say that the Earth is warming because that is what the grant money wants them to say. Like professional football, too much money has made science impure.
There is WAAAAAAYYYY more money in saying that climate change ISN'T happening due to man's actions. The entire oil and coal industries would be in love with a legit scientist who could say they're not responsible.

People who can be bought don't lie for LESS money. If they're going to lie, it's for more money... like all these politicians who know nothing about science who are owned by industry lobbyists.
The bad seeds among scientists are more likely to be in the 3% of scientists who don't agree with the other 97%, because if you want more money on this topic you say it's not happening.

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Re: Mark Waid talking Comicsgate.

Post by leonmallett »

Zhuge1 wrote:...
What's EVS?
Ethan Van Sciver.
VEI - I look forward to you one day publishing MORE than 9-10 books per month

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Re: Mark Waid talking Comicsgate.

Post by lorddunlow »

Okay... These *SQUEE* are up in arms about the new She-Ra. These guys are mentally deranged. Anyone who agrees with them is a person who should be launched into the sun. Bunch of *SQUEE* pedophile perverts.

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Re: Mark Waid talking Comicsgate.

Post by lorddunlow »

By the way, my Twitter account got banned because I called EVS a douche.

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Re: Mark Waid talking Comicsgate.

Post by ironherc »

to be fair she does look lame and I suggested that they should had gone with a similar route of the he-man reboot where Adam looked much weaker and different to his actual transformation.

also what the hell are you on about pedophiles?
you seem to have a lot of rage

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Re: Mark Waid talking Comicsgate.

Post by greg »

ironherc wrote:also what the hell are you on about pedophiles?
you seem to have a lot of rage
LordDunlow is a pediatrician. I wouldn't push too hard for more details.

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Re: Mark Waid talking Comicsgate.

Post by lorddunlow »

ironherc wrote: you seem to have a lot of rage
I am a rational human who was born into this irrational society. I have lots of rage. Lots and lots and lots of rage.
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Re: Mark Waid talking Comicsgate.

Post by possumgrease »

#she-ragate

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Re: Mark Waid talking Comicsgate.

Post by ironherc »

lorddunlow wrote:
ironherc wrote: you seem to have a lot of rage
I am a rational human who was born into this irrational society. I have lots of rage. Lots and lots and lots of rage.
doesn't really excuse accusing a very large group of people of been pedophiles.

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Re: Mark Waid talking Comicsgate.

Post by Chiclo »

ironherc wrote:
lorddunlow wrote:
ironherc wrote: you seem to have a lot of rage
I am a rational human who was born into this irrational society. I have lots of rage. Lots and lots and lots of rage.
doesn't really excuse accusing a very large group of people of been pedophiles.
How large of a group of people? How many people are upset about a new She-Ra? I don't think I have actually seen anyone mention being upset about the new She-Ra, just people reacting adversely to other, unseen (to me) people who are upset about She-Ra. On one hand, I can't imagine too many people caring about a She-Ra cartoon in 2018 but on the other hand, I remember how many people have too much free time on the internet.

Are people really mad that She-Ra isn't good looking enough? Is there not enough porn on the internet that they have to get their rocks off on She-Ra reruns? Or is this whole thing a straw man put forward by the outrage-industrial complex?

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Re: Mark Waid talking Comicsgate.

Post by depluto »

I don't know who She-Ra is. She sounds like she has hairy boobs.

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Re: Mark Waid talking Comicsgate.

Post by Chiclo »

depluto wrote:I don't know who She-Ra is. She sounds like she has hairy boobs.
She is like the sister to He-Man or something. She lives in the magical land of Etheria and rides around on a unicorn and there are a bunch of rainbows and she fights some Skeletor knock-off... Hordak?

Like many of the 80s cartoons, it is hard to say if it was a toy line that promoted a cartoon or a cartoon that promoted a toy, kind of like Transformers, Jem and the Holograms, GI Joe, He-Man, Dino-Riders and the like. The She-Ra toys were more or less like the Barbie people came up with a line of He-Man like characters for girls.

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Re: Mark Waid talking Comicsgate.

Post by possumgrease »

#notmyshe-ra

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Re: Mark Waid talking Comicsgate.

Post by depluto »

Ah ... I was thinking it was some kind of cat lady in a bikini.

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Re: Mark Waid talking Comicsgate.

Post by TheFerg714 »

Zhuge1 wrote: Admittedly, I've only listened to a few of his reviews (and only of the books I've actually taken the time to read). I did think that in BP and the Crew (which honestly should likely just be called The Crew since Misty Knight was the primary character and T'Challa was more of a subsidiary one), his reviews were overly negative and that he had pre-judged the comic before reading it.
Yea, I'm not going to defend his reviews. I find them entertaining usually, but I often disagree. But again, sometimes he nails it on the head (like most critics). Try watching his Black Panther #1 review. Apparently he's a little more positive.
What are the Twitter/culture war videos? Feel free to ping me directly with a link if you don't want to post those links in this thread and I'll take the time to watch them.
He finds crazy people on Twitter, or other news sites, that think they run the comic industry, and want to turn it into a club, and talks about them. Basically any of his videos that aren't reviews would fall under this category. The video below is a kind of perfect explanation about everything that went down with Mark Waid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-yoqEg1lyY&t=1064s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
lorddunlow wrote:Okay... These *SQUEE* are up in arms about the new She-Ra. These guys are mentally deranged. Anyone who agrees with them is a person who should be launched into the sun. Bunch of *SQUEE* pedophile perverts.

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Dude, "she" literally looks like a 14-year old boy.

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Re: Mark Waid talking Comicsgate.

Post by TheFerg714 »

Chiclo wrote:
How large of a group of people? How many people are upset about a new She-Ra? I don't think I have actually seen anyone mention being upset about the new She-Ra, just people reacting adversely to other, unseen (to me) people who are upset about She-Ra. On one hand, I can't imagine too many people caring about a She-Ra cartoon in 2018 but on the other hand, I remember how many people have too much free time on the internet.

Are people really mad that She-Ra isn't good looking enough? Is there not enough porn on the internet that they have to get their rocks off on She-Ra reruns? Or is this whole thing a straw man put forward by the outrage-industrial complex?
Literally just type in She-Ra into YouTube if you want to find out why people are upset about the new She-Ra. I would assume it's for the same reason that people are upset at Captain Marvel looking more and more like a man every year.

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Re: Mark Waid talking Comicsgate.

Post by ironherc »

Chiclo wrote:
ironherc wrote:
lorddunlow wrote:
ironherc wrote: you seem to have a lot of rage
I am a rational human who was born into this irrational society. I have lots of rage. Lots and lots and lots of rage.
doesn't really excuse accusing a very large group of people of been pedophiles.
How large of a group of people? How many people are upset about a new She-Ra? I don't think I have actually seen anyone mention being upset about the new She-Ra, just people reacting adversely to other, unseen (to me) people who are upset about She-Ra. On one hand, I can't imagine too many people caring about a She-Ra cartoon in 2018 but on the other hand, I remember how many people have too much free time on the internet.

Are people really mad that She-Ra isn't good looking enough? Is there not enough porn on the internet that they have to get their rocks off on She-Ra reruns? Or is this whole thing a straw man put forward by the outrage-industrial complex?
he refered to comicsgate who most don't like the design cause it either looks to boyish or just not as good as the original. just by dncs subscribers on youtube and a majority of 81k. sjws pretty much started to accuse the big guys like dnc that it was about sex. when they are the ones who brought it up.

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Re: Mark Waid talking Comicsgate.

Post by The Dirt Gang »

Chiclo wrote:
depluto wrote:I don't know who She-Ra is. She sounds like she has hairy boobs.
She is like the sister to He-Man or something. She lives in the magical land of Etheria and rides around on a unicorn and there are a bunch of rainbows and she fights some Skeletor knock-off... Hordak?

Like many of the 80s cartoons, it is hard to say if it was a toy line that promoted a cartoon or a cartoon that promoted a toy, kind of like Transformers, Jem and the Holograms, GI Joe, He-Man, Dino-Riders and the like. The She-Ra toys were more or less like the Barbie people came up with a line of He-Man like characters for girls.
Have you seen "The Toys That Made Us" on Netflix? Do you have Netflix? :D The He-Man episode is excellent.
TheFerg714 wrote:Dude, "she" literally looks like a 14-year old boy.
C'mon now. She doesn't really look like a boy.

Image

I find this thread pretty interesting but, ultimately, I find it somewhat funny that it's folks complaining about lack of representation and criticizing those that also want more representation. I know, I know - they can have their representation just not with the characters you've grown up with and adore.

As for Mark Waid, I think he's a great writer but I've read several stories over the years that make him sound like a bit of a troll. Mark Alessi of Crossgen has a really crazy story about Waid. If it's true, it's very sad.
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Re: Mark Waid talking Comicsgate.

Post by Zhuge1 »

The Dirt Gang wrote:
Chiclo wrote:
depluto wrote:I don't know who She-Ra is. She sounds like she has hairy boobs.
She is like the sister to He-Man or something. She lives in the magical land of Etheria and rides around on a unicorn and there are a bunch of rainbows and she fights some Skeletor knock-off... Hordak?

Like many of the 80s cartoons, it is hard to say if it was a toy line that promoted a cartoon or a cartoon that promoted a toy, kind of like Transformers, Jem and the Holograms, GI Joe, He-Man, Dino-Riders and the like. The She-Ra toys were more or less like the Barbie people came up with a line of He-Man like characters for girls.
Have you seen "The Toys That Made Us" on Netflix? Do you have Netflix? :D The He-Man episode is excellent.
TheFerg714 wrote:Dude, "she" literally looks like a 14-year old boy.
C'mon now. She doesn't really look like a boy.

Image

I find this thread pretty interesting but, ultimately, I find it somewhat funny that it's folks complaining about lack of representation and criticizing those that also want more representation. I know, I know - they can have their representation just not with the characters you've grown up with and adore.

As for Mark Waid, I think he's a great writer but I've read several stories over the years that make him sound like a bit of a troll. Mark Alessi of Crossgen has a really crazy story about Waid. If it's true, it's very sad.
The picture to me just looks like a younger She-Ra. It reminds me of these various Winx cartoons that my daughter watches.
Given that the target audience of the show is likely little girls in the 5-12 year old range, it seems appropriate.


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