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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 12:17:37 pm 
innerSPACE does whatever I tell them
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If anyone would like to hear our OTV:VCR podcast discussing/reviewing this issue, please follow the link;

http://onlythevaliant.com/episodes/vcr163/

Thanks to any who listen in :thumb:

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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 12:18:39 pm 
innerSPACE does whatever I tell them
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Sure wish I'd had time to join in & chat about it on this weeks VCR, the book is just awesome!

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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 2:32:51 pm 
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Valiant fan since: Since VEI(Turok #1?)
Favorite character: Divinity/Shadowman/LiveWire
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This prelude was good, really good. LiveWire, ha! That’s my girl, she’s not to be :censored: with... :o

Secret Weapons, man, not only are they starting to work well together in the field, each are getting better at what it is they do. Also, it’s the family vibe amongst the group that I love, and Lucia is back with Fam, on meds now, I’m sure that’ll be an interesting plot point down the line...:thumb:

Hard Corps are still shooting first, and asking questions later, Palmar’s a *SQUEE*. I wouldn’t mind seeing him take a dirt nap... :lol:

I wish Heisserer and Allen/Martin were doing the whole mini, (No diss to Matt & Thomas) this creative team works really well together... :clap:

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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 6:59:06 pm 
Harbinger rank: Nensei
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I think this may have been the best issue put out by Valiant since Armor Hunters. It was awesome.


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 1:28:17 am 
Is it Dee-no or Die-no? Dunno.
Is it Dee-no or Die-no? Dunno.
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Favorite character: Archer
Favorite title: Archer & Armstrong
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I haven't had this intense of a reaction to a comic book in a long while. Livewire turning out all the lights (even though I knew it was going to happen) was absolutely shocking, and realizing that the Secret Weapons were about to be attacked by the same people that attacked Gen. Zero (twice) was terrifying.

That said, I am extremely disappointed in Livewire. These were not the actions of a mature, adult hero. This is something Harada would do... maybe.

And seeing what Pete and Kris are doing... Right now, I'm team US government 100%.


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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 4:16:31 am 
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Great issue, Heissurer delivers consistently strong issues and I think the new editor should make it a priority of getting him back on board to write more material for Valiant. Best bit for me was the Hard Corps moments and the planning of Palmer eg when they received notifications to call off the mission they knew to ignore it as it was psiots @#£&ing with them.

Small nitpick on Avi and Owen landing exactly in the same room as the girls following the explosion :? but no biggie.

Art and colours were fantastic too.

4/5 - :clap:


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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 4:16:31 am 
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Double post!


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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 8:21:12 pm 
Mmm, I was drooling over Cooshie tonight.
Mmm, I was drooling over Cooshie tonight.
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Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
Small nitpick on Avi and Owen landing exactly in the same room as the girls following the explosion :? but no biggie.


I felt the same way but perhaps it was just a way to save panels. They could have easily been thrown to the street outside of the building Amanda was in just ran down to meet them. No biggie.

But Amanda shutting off the US power grid? Biggie. Think of the mayhem in hospitals, the thousands of planes in the air that now have no landing lights on runways or communications with the control tower, cities without traffic lights, etc etc.

That maybe the most dramatically thrown down gauntlet we have yet seen in the VU. No satellites or GPS or internet or refrigeration or gas pumps? The world would come to a grinding halt immediately. The cost to the GDP would be enormous.


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 2:51:35 am 
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jmatt wrote:
Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
Small nitpick on Avi and Owen landing exactly in the same room as the girls following the explosion :? but no biggie.


I felt the same way but perhaps it was just a way to save panels. They could have easily been thrown to the street outside of the building Amanda was in just ran down to meet them. No biggie.

But Amanda shutting off the US power grid? Biggie. Think of the mayhem in hospitals, the thousands of planes in the air that now have no landing lights on runways or communications with the control tower, cities without traffic lights, etc etc.

That maybe the most dramatically thrown down gauntlet we have yet seen in the VU. No satellites or GPS or internet or refrigeration or gas pumps? The world would come to a grinding halt immediately. The cost to the GDP would be enormous.


That’s a really good point. On VCR Chris was saying there wasn’t as much of ‘grey’ area in this Harbinger Wars as the first one as Hard Corps seem more clearly defined as the ‘bad guys’. However, given Livewire’s actions as potentially the cause of innocent deaths then I’d say that makes who the good and bad guys are more open to debate.


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 4:19:16 am 
H.A.R.D.E.R. Corps, with Extra Resistance
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After the jump, when he said it was weird, Owen should have looked into the reader's direction, or Nikki with a funny face.

...

What I don't understand is the first page and Amanda going into the cafe: Since when are electronic devices a problem like this for her? It almost feels like Pete's problem hearing everybody's thoughts at the beginning of Harbinger. Am I missing something about Amanda?

...

Serenity Cafe & Damn Fine Cherry Pie.... Firefly & Twin Peaks.... Love it..... Eric Heisserer! :thumb:


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 8:04:07 pm 
Mmm, I was drooling over Cooshie tonight.
Mmm, I was drooling over Cooshie tonight.
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Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
However, given Livewire’s actions as potentially the cause of innocent deaths then I’d say that makes who the good and bad guys are more open to debate.


Unless they take a soft approach with this in the book, something like that could kill tens of thousands in the real world.

What happens when you stop a nuclear reactor's ability to cool the rods? Even if there are zero-power failsafes built in, if just two or three or the country's 99 reactors melt you're talking about about the release of a boatload of radioactivity.

Throw in that there are no communications and a million other emergencies happening simultaneously.

I am almost shocked that they would have her go this far. And editorially, I'm pretty surprised they would even grant her power of this magnitude.


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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 1:32:19 pm 
Just jumpin' through time arcs, that's all.
Just jumpin' through time arcs, that's all.

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Sunlight on Snow wrote:


...

What I don't understand is the first page and Amanda going into the cafe: Since when are electronic devices a problem like this for her? It almost feels like Pete's problem hearing everybody's thoughts at the beginning of Harbinger. Am I missing something about Amanda?
:


The first page bugged me too. This is the third or fourth time they have used that " someone hearing whats happening all around them"
Its old now and shouldnt be used for amanda.

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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 1:36:23 pm 
Just jumpin' through time arcs, that's all.
Just jumpin' through time arcs, that's all.

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jmatt wrote:
Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
However, given Livewire’s actions as potentially the cause of innocent deaths then I’d say that makes who the good and bad guys are more open to debate.


Unless they take a soft approach with this in the book, something like that could kill tens of thousands in the real world.

What happens when you stop a nuclear reactor's ability to cool the rods? Even if there are zero-power failsafes built in, if just two or three or the country's 99 reactors melt you're talking about about the release of a boatload of radioactivity.

Throw in that there are no communications and a million other emergencies happening simultaneously.

I am almost shocked that they would have her go this far. And editorially, I'm pretty surprised they would even grant her power of this magnitude.


My guess is editorial didnt think about all the what iffs. Because it doesnt make sence for Amanda to do that.
Btw hosptials and nucular power plants have back up generators and fail safes.
People on life support would probably have a few hrs of back up life power.

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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 2:41:41 pm 
Completely ruined the ending of Last Jedi: The Force Reloaded of the Green Gables 8 -- This Time, It's Really Really Personal (In Space).
Completely ruined the ending of Last Jedi: The Force Reloaded of the Green Gables 8 -- This Time, It's Really Really Personal (In Space).

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nonplayer wrote:
jmatt wrote:
Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
However, given Livewire’s actions as potentially the cause of innocent deaths then I’d say that makes who the good and bad guys are more open to debate.


Unless they take a soft approach with this in the book, something like that could kill tens of thousands in the real world.

What happens when you stop a nuclear reactor's ability to cool the rods? Even if there are zero-power failsafes built in, if just two or three or the country's 99 reactors melt you're talking about about the release of a boatload of radioactivity.

Throw in that there are no communications and a million other emergencies happening simultaneously.

I am almost shocked that they would have her go this far. And editorially, I'm pretty surprised they would even grant her power of this magnitude.


My guess is editorial didnt think about all the what iffs. Because it doesnt make sence for Amanda to do that.
Btw hosptials and nucular power plants have back up generators and fail safes.
People on life support would probably have a few hrs of back up life power.


That's what I thought. Hospitals and Power Companies would be fine for the most part depending on the cause of the outage. I live in Florida, so I've lived through my fair share of blackouts as a result of the Hurricanes. With that in mind, People die in blackouts. Almost always. If Livewire's attack happened in real life the effects would be devastating. Car accidents would occur nationwide due to the sudden failure of traffic lights, airplanes would crash, people would die from heat exhaustion due to the lack of A/C, people would die from monoxide poisoning if they didn't know that generators have to be kept outside, etc. Our society is built on technology, and we take for granted how our life styles are possible because of it. Also don't forget the diabetics would die because they couldn't keep their insulin refrigerated. Along with anyone else who needs access to medication that needs to be kept at a certain temperature. My grandfather in Puerto Rico had to wake up every morning to purchase bags of ice for my grandmother, because she was diabetic. People had to make long treks all the ways out to the mountains to find clean water if the day's supply had run out. Livewire's blackout hits pretty close to home for me, and I seriously doubt the mini-series will actually explore how serious her actions would be in real life. Also keep in mind that people who would require relief aid wouldn't have access to it, because Livewire's blackout is nationwide. Things like this tend to be handwaved in superhero comics.


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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 7:54:11 pm 
Mmm, I was drooling over Cooshie tonight.
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nonplayer wrote:
Btw hosptials and nucular power plants have back up generators and fail safes.
People on life support would probably have a few hrs of back up life power.


Of course. I service a few companies that have generators that kick on just to keep the network running. Things just don't always go according to plan. So they might have eight to 24 hours of battery / generator power immediately. But if those generators are relying on natural gas being piped to the site, etc, that's all they're getting.

As for Amanda's opening scene, I was assuming she was listening to see if she was being followed. As she enters, we see "Target acquired. She's entering the building", which would support that. But she subsequently says "Ah, I can finally think again"... so who knows.


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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 10:36:47 pm 
innerSPACE does whatever I tell them
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nonplayer wrote:
Sunlight on Snow wrote:


...

What I don't understand is the first page and Amanda going into the cafe: Since when are electronic devices a problem like this for her? It almost feels like Pete's problem hearing everybody's thoughts at the beginning of Harbinger. Am I missing something about Amanda?


The first page bugged me too. This is the third or fourth time they have used that " someone hearing whats happening all around them"
Its old now and shouldnt be used for amanda.

I disagree.

Electronic devices transmit data wirelessly all the time. It would be exactly the same problem as telepathics reading thoughts like broadcasts. More so, as data is literally being broadcast in open air in every direction at all times. I think its a clever insightful idea to show something Amanda is probably used to dealing with on a regular basis. She is a natural receiver due to her psiot ability. Maybe it only ever really gets to her when she is exhausted.

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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 10:39:45 pm 
innerSPACE does whatever I tell them
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jmatt wrote:
nonplayer wrote:
Btw hosptials and nucular power plants have back up generators and fail safes.
People on life support would probably have a few hrs of back up life power.


Of course. I service a few companies that have generators that kick on just to keep the network running. Things just don't always go according to plan. So they might have eight to 24 hours of battery / generator power immediately. But if those generators are relying on natural gas being piped to the site, etc, that's all they're getting.

As for Amanda's opening scene, I was assuming she was listening to see if she was being followed. As she enters, we see "Target acquired. She's entering the building", which would support that. But she subsequently says "Ah, I can finally think again"... so who knows.

There are emergency generators that rely on diesel fuel where I work, but its stored in large tanks that require refilling via a third party service. If everything was down including phone lines, we'd be out of luck once the tanks ran out - unless we could drive to the company that normally sends out refuelling trucks & arrange for some to be delivered... still not great options there!

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 8:07:42 am 
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grendeljd wrote:
nonplayer wrote:
Sunlight on Snow wrote:


...

What I don't understand is the first page and Amanda going into the cafe: Since when are electronic devices a problem like this for her? It almost feels like Pete's problem hearing everybody's thoughts at the beginning of Harbinger. Am I missing something about Amanda?


The first page bugged me too. This is the third or fourth time they have used that " someone hearing whats happening all around them"
Its old now and shouldnt be used for amanda.

I disagree.

Electronic devices transmit data wirelessly all the time. It would be exactly the same problem as telepathics reading thoughts like broadcasts. More so, as data is literally being broadcast in open air in every direction at all times. I think its a clever insightful idea to show something Amanda is probably used to dealing with on a regular basis. She is a natural receiver due to her psiot ability. Maybe it only ever really gets to her when she is exhausted.

We do already know there can be negative side effects. Peter learned to meditate to maintain his sanity and block other people's thoughts more easily. Harada needs to sleep in his vault for 24h every 30 days to recharge his mind and prevent it from causing a mind squall (and he's most vulnerable during his downtime). The two Omegas have some major flaws. It's not a problem Amanda is experiencing headaches from time to time but she hadn't have any headaches before. Never. It's not a question of the why and how but of the timing. It doesn't really flow with what we've seen from her during the SW mini.


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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 8:00:59 pm 
Mmm, I was drooling over Cooshie tonight.
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grendeljd wrote:
...unless we could drive to the company that normally sends out refuelling trucks & arrange for some to be delivered... still not great options there!


To say nothing of the fact that pretty much everyone would just stop coming to work. They would all try to make their way home to their families and just stay there.

Here's a consideration we haven't mentioned and it is probably the biggest of all: potable water. It would stop being pumped up buildings in cities. In the suburbs, even well water would be inaccessible. Within a day, it would be pandemonium. Within three days, riots. A week, utter desperation.

I'm gonna guess that she is able to simply restore power within a few hours of the next issue. There's no way they will let it play out like this. The falling satellites will be the only lasting effect.


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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 5:27:21 am 
H.A.R.D.E.R. Corps, with Extra Resistance
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It's still possible Livewire just caused a very temporary blackout to bring down those satellites to harm HLS and Omen.

There's a preview at the end of the prelude issue that suggests that.


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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 7:37:42 pm 
Mmm, I was drooling over Cooshie tonight.
Mmm, I was drooling over Cooshie tonight.
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Sunlight on Snow wrote:
It's still possible Livewire just caused a very temporary blackout to bring down those satellites to harm HLS and Omen.


It's gotta be. But it was done so dramatically at the end of the issue that it caused rampant speculation. :lol:

But getting back to the other issue, of Livewire seemingly unable to tune out electronic chatter, that's new. And to be honest, unnecessary for the issue. It has no impact. And unless that cafe is built like a Faraday Cage, all those signals are still permeating the area.


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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 4:09:21 am 
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Minor spoiler alert!

https://twitter.com/HIGHzurrer/status/992601563217694721
Quote:
Just ran across a partial outline for my scrapped issue 2 of Harbinger Wars 2.

It opened with OMEN trying to syphon power from the one building in town that still worked: the municipal hospital. But when they tried, Livewire punished then.

Turns out Livewire selectively maintains life-sustaining services; held airports open until flights were grounded. But still nothing else worked. But even being selective, she’s still deeply in the wrong. Her emotions are at the wheel.

Don’t know what Matt has planned but I trust him implicitly. He’s better at this.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:57:39 pm 
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jmatt wrote:
But getting back to the other issue, of Livewire seemingly unable to tune out electronic chatter, that's new. And to be honest, unnecessary for the issue. It has no impact.

In the pre-order ed. of the comic there's a comment on how that opening panel was done as a tribute to one of the covers for the first Harbinger comic, so I think all in all that was probably the most significant driver for the creation of the panel.

And someone else mentioned how "we haven't seen that yet"... Well, that's called 'character development' isn't it? Just because we haven't seen it yet doesn't mean it can't have been already occurring - maybe it just wasn't touched on. Maybe it was a new toy for the writer to get his tribute panel in the comic and it'll never be touched upon again. Either way, I don't really care, it barely affected the story (which is either good, netural or bad depending on your perspective, eh?)

I think Livewire shutting the power off was narrow-minded and immature. It's pretty much a clean-cut case of 'I'm looking out for my own at the expense of all others'. Amanda has a better moral compass and intelligence than to do that and I feel this is a bit out of character for her... but in terms of a big action to catalyse the next harbinger war... It was pretty cool :thumb:

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:42:23 am 
innerSPACE does whatever I tell them
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Shadowman99 wrote:
jmatt wrote:
But getting back to the other issue, of Livewire seemingly unable to tune out electronic chatter, that's new. And to be honest, unnecessary for the issue. It has no impact.

In the pre-order ed. of the comic there's a comment on how that opening panel was done as a tribute to one of the covers for the first Harbinger comic, so I think all in all that was probably the most significant driver for the creation of the panel.

And someone else mentioned how "we haven't seen that yet"... Well, that's called 'character development' isn't it? Just because we haven't seen it yet doesn't mean it can't have been already occurring - maybe it just wasn't touched on. Maybe it was a new toy for the writer to get his tribute panel in the comic and it'll never be touched upon again. Either way, I don't really care, it barely affected the story (which is either good, netural or bad depending on your perspective, eh?)

I think Livewire shutting the power off was narrow-minded and immature. It's pretty much a clean-cut case of 'I'm looking out for my own at the expense of all others'. Amanda has a better moral compass and intelligence than to do that and I feel this is a bit out of character for her... but in terms of a big action to catalyse the next harbinger war... It was pretty cool :thumb:


I already commented earlier in this thread that I very much liked how we got a glimpse of how Livewire deals with "electronic chatter" - but I wanted to speak up again to also agree with Shadowman99's point. New ideas getting fleshed out about a character that we haven't seen before aren't automatically bad in my mind, it's all about how that new idea is handled. Again, I thought this was a really clever insight to reveal something that has probably been happening all along with her abilities, we've just never seen it to this degree yet.

I also think it had an important part to play in the tone of the issue and her subsequently uncharacteristic actions... it shows us a significant emotional beat that describes her worn down state of mind leading up to making such a rash decision.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:12:19 pm 
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grendeljd wrote:
...it shows us a significant emotional beat that describes her worn down state of mind leading up to making such a rash decision.

That's a really good observation actually.

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