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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:11:55 pm 
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The pros' review: http://onlythevaliant.com/episodes/vcr128/


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 Post subject: Re: HARBINGER RENEGADE 6
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:13:27 pm 
innerSPACE does whatever I tell them
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Thegreatmagnet wrote:

Dood! You are lightning quick, man - I just arrived to post this here! You gotta tweak your thread title to match the format if you want to be truly pro-fesh though :wink: :P

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 Post subject: Re: HARBINGER RENEGADE 6
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:52:26 pm 
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grendeljd wrote:
You gotta tweak your thread title to match the format if you want to be truly pro-fesh though :wink: :P

Done. :thumb:


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:23:16 pm 
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My bad, Josh!

My two cents...at the risk of nit-picking, I don't really understand why this was released as issue six of the series, especially coming out of the previous issue. There were plenty of unanswered questions in the previous issue, and obviously a lot of drama. I think most readers would want to know how the rest of the Valiant universe (and especially the Renegades) would react to news of the assault on Rook. Putting this issue here in the arc kind of erases any momentum that they were building for Massacre, and now they have to return to exposition/recap in issue 7.

This issue really seems like it should have been Alpha #0, rather than issue 6 of Harbinger Renegade. Imagine the impact if they had brought in Alpha in the current timeline and he starts causing mayhem, and almost nobody seems to know who he is. They could have ramped up momentum for Massacre even higher, and then delivered a zero issue at the end of the arc, which I believe is also the start of a second hiatus for the series anyway.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:40:05 pm 
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I really enjoyed the issue, loved the art as always with Ryp, and I'm really interested in learning more about Alpha. That aside...

Thegreatmagnet wrote:
My two cents...at the risk of nit-picking, I don't really understand why this was released as issue six of the series, especially coming out of the previous issue. There were plenty of unanswered questions in the previous issue, and obviously a lot of drama. I think most readers would want to know how the rest of the Valiant universe (and especially the Renegades) would react to news of the assault on Rook. Putting this issue here in the arc kind of erases any momentum that they were building for Massacre, and now they have to return to exposition/recap in issue 7.


I agree, this issue doesn't make sense. Why would you put a fan favorite book on hiatus for months right after it starts, hype the comeback issue nonstop, put out part one of a story and then go on this huge aside? I think this issue was really good but what is the point of this publishing schedule? Why couldn't this issue come out during the hiatus when everyone wanted something to hold them over? In interviews Dinesh makes it sound as if issues for some series are complete months to almost a year ahead of time so I find it hard to believe they needed the time.

Seriously, we wait (what, 4 months?) for Massacre part 1 and now were are waiting two months for part 2. This is just stupid. This is why people trade-wait.

Thegreatmagnet wrote:
This issue really seems like it should have been Alpha #0, rather than issue 6 of Harbinger Renegade. Imagine the impact if they had brought in Alpha in the current timeline and he starts causing mayhem, and almost nobody seems to know who he is. They could have ramped up momentum for Massacre even higher, and then delivered a zero issue at the end of the arc, which I believe is also the start of a second hiatus for the series anyway.


I don't much care about the issue's title, but if there is a second hiatus before HW2 I'm going to be genuinely mad. If Massacre is going to 4 issues, like almost every Valiant arc, this story won't be finished until November. That leaves 5 months until HW2 starts, it's crazy to me to think they can't come up with 5 issues of material to lead into this enormous event built around this title?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:52:09 pm 
Mmm, I was drooling over Cooshie tonight.
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I enjoyed this story for what it was... until I heard the podcast and had my eyes opened. As I'm reading it I'm thinking "Cuth? Where have I heard this name before?"

Listen to the cast to hear how this issue could possibly be a link in a chain of titles including Legends of the Geomancer, Bleeding Monk #0, the Eternal Warrior 'Houses' stuff (Nergal), the prologues of Harbinger:Renegade, Kings II of the Holy Bible and Harbinger #2? (Darpan).

Hey Chris, great job on the homework! :clap: :clap:

Seriously, listening to the podcasts every week increases my enjoyment of the stories immensely!


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:55:07 pm 
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This story was solicited after #5 to preserve the secrecy of what happened in #5. The details for #6 were available before #5 was in our hands.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:50:07 am 
H.A.R.D.E.R. Corps, with Extra Resistance
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Filler!! If this connected to the current arc/HW2 in any way, I missed it. They could have released this during the five month hiatus, as HR #0.. :?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:30:02 am 
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greg wrote:
This story was solicited after #5 to preserve the secrecy of what happened in #5. The details for #6 were available before #5 was in our hands.


Respectfully, the solicits for 7 and 8 were out before issue 5 was released, and those solicits don't contain any spoilers for the deaths in issue 5. They can write a synopsis that doesn't spoil the surprise. I think it's safe to say this was planned this way for some reason.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:19:26 am 
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Thegreatmagnet wrote:
greg wrote:
This story was solicited after #5 to preserve the secrecy of what happened in #5. The details for #6 were available before #5 was in our hands.


Respectfully, the solicits for 7 and 8 were out before issue 5 was released, and those solicits don't contain any spoilers for the deaths in issue 5. They can write a synopsis that doesn't spoil the surprise. I think it's safe to say this was planned this way for some reason.
Not just the description... we got several preview pages of #6 visible before #5 was released. Valiant had just done preview pages for #5 with all the black blocks "classified" panels (essentially worthless preview pages). They would have had to censor all the #6 preview pages, too.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:18:30 pm 
You gotta have Faith!
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"He seeks to devour us; you've unleashed horror." - Toyo Harada

(last page of Harbinger Renegade #1)


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:09:26 pm 
You gotta have Faith!
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Great issue and podcast... and excellent homework from Chris. :thumb:

I also like the First Crusade and Siege of Antioch setting.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:50:07 pm 
Just jumpin' through time arcs, that's all.
Just jumpin' through time arcs, that's all.
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excellent homework Chris! I wonder if Rafer had that planned the whole time, the backwards writing regarding the Alpha and Solomon.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:51:56 pm 
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I just read it again.... because it's so fluffin' awesome. There's a minor mistake or thing that could have been done better visually.

On their way to Antioch the crusaders (Brotherhood of Cuth) cross the Alps from right (West) to left (East) which is the wrong direction and when they return from Antioch they again cross the Alps from right to left. This time it is the correct direction but it's weird to see them crossing the Alps from right to left twice. :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:53:42 pm 
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Sunlight on Snow wrote:
This time it is the correct direction but it's weird to see them crossing the Alps from right to left twice. :lol:

Uphill both ways. :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:00:19 pm 
Just jumpin' through time arcs, that's all.
Just jumpin' through time arcs, that's all.
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Sunlight on Snow wrote:
I just read it again.... because it's so fluffin' awesome. There's a minor mistake or thing that could have been done better visually.

On their way to Antioch the crusaders (Brotherhood of Cuth) cross the Alps from right (West) to left (East) which is the wrong direction and when they return from Antioch they again cross the Alps from right to left. This time it is the correct direction but it's weird to see them crossing the Alps from right to left twice. :lol:


YES! I see that now!

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:10:01 pm 
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jmatt wrote:
I enjoyed this story for what it was... until I heard the podcast and had my eyes opened. As I'm reading it I'm thinking "Cuth? Where have I heard this name before?"

Listen to the cast to hear how this issue could possibly be a link in a chain of titles including Legends of the Geomancer, Bleeding Monk #0, the Eternal Warrior 'Houses' stuff (Nergal), the prologues of Harbinger:Renegade, Kings II of the Holy Bible and Harbinger #2? (Darpan).

Hey Chris, great job on the homework! :clap: :clap:

Seriously, listening to the podcasts every week increases my enjoyment of the stories immensely!


Agree 100%Entertamos

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:18:59 pm 
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It was jarring to discover not what I was expecting both in the art and the story.
I didn't like how compressed it was. Big time jumps.
After reading this I felt Like dropping the title. In the back of my mind I was expecting some fish dude to pop put or some weird *SQUEE* to accure.
I think this is kinda a lame way to introduce the new baddy of the universe. Unless it's a throw away charater.
I think Valiant coukd have let him use more of the pages in the book to make the story flow better. Are we to asume the guy on the last panel is still alive India cut-out to fast. What bugged me was they fought to the front line climbed up some stairs smashed down a door and there was the king and Nobels. Really that was a time jump because who keeps the throne room next to the outer wall and behind one flimsy wood door.
Not a bad story but I think it could have been handled better.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:33:45 pm 
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I'm still waiting for All-Comic to post my review. Sounds like the podcast hit on some of my points about the book, although mine are limited to spoiler free. Lots of little goodies in this book. Brotherhood of Cuth (which is interesting that the Alpha chose to adorn himself and his throne room with snake imagery given that it is the meaning of Cuth). I'm wondering if the knights have anything at all to do with Cuth from Legends.

Enjoyed how Gerald's narrative did not reflect the reality - his initial belief that they were fighting a just war and protectors of the land didn't jive with the expressions of abject terror on the villagers as the brotherhood came marching through their lands. Truth is a matter of perspective, same as history, apparently.

Interesting that the show a 8 year time leap in Gerald's life. He has given up the brotherhood and seemed to settle into an idyllic life, but once again, his narrative doesn't match the reality - that last panel, for instance.

They should have taken the Alpha's head. He's apparently still able to suck enough life force out of those around him to heal and sustain himself if he's able to be a threat in the current continuum.

Good story. It's the lull before the "stormbringer". Gives us some space to absorb what happened in Rook while educating us on the magnitude of danger heading the renegades way.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:39:32 pm 
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I just don't know. We're two issues into this arc and we haven't seen the Renegades, and we haven't seen the Renegade (aside from a photograph in one panel), or really any other character from the first arc. Seems kind of strange.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:20:33 pm 
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Good story. Poor placement in the series. Bad timing. Hurt momentum following Massacre.
Better served as a one shot.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:51:27 pm 
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The timing of this issue doesn't make sense, since they took a break for several months before #5, and then interrupt Massacre with basically a one-shot. I felt like this issue could've been released at any time. It's now been 6 months since we saw the Renegades.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:47:32 pm 
Just jumpin' through time arcs, that's all.
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mateo107 wrote:
The timing of this issue doesn't make sense, since they took a break for several months before #5, and then interrupt Massacre with basically a one-shot. I felt like this issue could've been released at any time. It's now been 6 months since we saw the Renegades.


I think a lot of people still think this is a story about the "Renegades", when it isn't. Like the title states, and like Dinesh has stated in the past, it's about one Renegade, and that being Solomon. With the questions posed by OTV, it all fits in.

Re-reading books #1-#4, and looking at them backwards, there is something about Solomon hunting down the Storm Bringer. Solomon wanted to know the location of "the Storm Bringer", so showing a little of the back story fits here. We will later figure out what he has planned for this "Storm Bringer"

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:13:41 pm 
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TheeBaldMoose wrote:
mateo107 wrote:
The timing of this issue doesn't make sense, since they took a break for several months before #5, and then interrupt Massacre with basically a one-shot. I felt like this issue could've been released at any time. It's now been 6 months since we saw the Renegades.


I think a lot of people still think this is a story about the "Renegades", when it isn't. Like the title states, and like Dinesh has stated in the past, it's about one Renegade, and that being Solomon. With the questions posed by OTV, it all fits in.

Re-reading books #1-#4, and looking at them backwards, there is something about Solomon hunting down the Storm Bringer. Solomon wanted to know the location of "the Storm Bringer", so showing a little of the back story fits here. We will later figure out what he has planned for this "Storm Bringer"


Solomon also hasn't appeared in 6 months, aside from a photograph in one panel of issue 5.

This doesn't strike me as tight or even coherent storytelling. Renegade 5 should've been called Generation Zero 10 and released months ago. This issue should've been called Alpha 0 and released during the last hiatus or during the next hiatus.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:24:49 pm 
Just jumpin' through time arcs, that's all.
Just jumpin' through time arcs, that's all.
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Thegreatmagnet wrote:
TheeBaldMoose wrote:
mateo107 wrote:
The timing of this issue doesn't make sense, since they took a break for several months before #5, and then interrupt Massacre with basically a one-shot. I felt like this issue could've been released at any time. It's now been 6 months since we saw the Renegades.


I think a lot of people still think this is a story about the "Renegades", when it isn't. Like the title states, and like Dinesh has stated in the past, it's about one Renegade, and that being Solomon. With the questions posed by OTV, it all fits in.

Re-reading books #1-#4, and looking at them backwards, there is something about Solomon hunting down the Storm Bringer. Solomon wanted to know the location of "the Storm Bringer", so showing a little of the back story fits here. We will later figure out what he has planned for this "Storm Bringer"


Solomon also hasn't appeared in 6 months, aside from a photograph in one panel of issue 5.

This doesn't strike me as tight or even coherent storytelling. Renegade 5 should've been called Generation Zero 10 and released months ago. This issue should've been called Alpha 0 and released during the last hiatus or during the next hiatus.


While I do see where you are coming from, this is only a small chapter in a much larger story, one we don't know anything about. Dean Koontz writes a great deal like this, chapters that bounce around a little, and spin and spin until they all meet in the middle. While HR#5 doesn't seem to fit in, it does add a little more fuel to the overall fire, setting the stage for bigger things, the victor going after Solomon, The Gen Zero kids being killed, thus forcing the Renegades to join with Solomon (for revenge) to fight HARD Corps. The writing is on the wall, that's where this will eventually lead to.

I do see where you think this should be called Alpha 0, but it does fit in, better than people think. Since Solomon's request, have you not wondered who this "Storm Bringer" was? I remember questioning that when I read it. Didn't think much of it until I read this, and thought much like you, until I listened to the podcast. Then I read it again, followed what was said about reading parts backwards to see where it fits in, and it does.

It's tricky, and I like it. Hidden messages, complex.

Would it make sense if all of the sudden Solomon digs up this body that was called "Storm Bringer" and uses it somehow to destroy HARD Corps if #5 and #6 were never written or written differently?

Wouldn't people equally complain that it wasn't part of the story?

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