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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:11:56 pm 
Mmm, I was drooling over Cooshie tonight.
Mmm, I was drooling over Cooshie tonight.
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Like Moose, I'm taking a second look at the first four issue prologues, backwards. In the earliest prologue, when Solomon and Toyo first meet, we see Harada pick up and specifically notice one of Solomon's texts "The Prince" by Machiavelli. It makes me wonder if Solomon is a part of a larger plan devised by Harada. :hm:


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:04:13 pm 
Harbinger rank: Ichinensei
Harbinger rank: Ichinensei

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TheeBaldMoose wrote:
Would it make sense if all of the sudden Solomon digs up this body that was called "Storm Bringer" and uses it somehow to destroy HARD Corps if #5 and #6 were never written or written differently?

Wouldn't people equally complain that it wasn't part of the story?


People will complain about anything, that's a given. I am personally fine with both these last two issues, my problem is the hiatus and jumping story to story. This issue would have been great to have anytime between Renegade 4 and 5, but instead we get Massacre Part 1 then a 0 issue thrown in awkwardly.

I'm cool with this being a Solomon story, I'm cool with the Renegades and Solomon being minor at best in this story so far, I'm cool with unexpected issues that feature none of the expected characters while still being called Harbinger Renegade, but I'm really annoyed about waiting 6 months for a story to continue and they aren't telling it. Have they ever put out a Part 1 story then left it hanging for an unrelated issue like this?

And personally I think it would make perfect sense for Solomon to dig up something called Storm Bringer without us knowing what it was yet. It would be a totally acceptable thing to have at the end of an issue and then next month release this issue to surprise us with context. But maybe they thought that was too obvious of a way to do it.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:40:51 am 
I don't know about a power, but I keep hearing these weird tones from the radio
I don't know about a power, but I keep hearing these weird tones from the radio
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I liked this issue for what it was, and I'm not to bent out of shape that it's causing a delay in the 'main' story. I'm gonna trust the writer that this is the proper way to tell the story, and see where it goes from here.
TheeBaldMoose wrote:
Dean Koontz writes a great deal like this, chapters that bounce around a little, and spin and spin until they all meet in the middle.
I was thinking of Tom Clancy, myself. In a thousand page book, he can use the first 400 pages 'setting up all the dominoes' - showing you all the characters, where they are, and what they're doing from all angles. Then, with one little push, one domino falls into the next, and then you've got 600 pages of non stop action and activity while everything goes nuts, until the last domino falls and it all resolves into a neat picture in the end.

This is all set up, folks. It's giving us context for what's to come. Could it have been ordered better? Maybe. But we won't be able to know until we've got the whole thing in our hands and can go back to 2nd guess everything. My guess as to why they did the delay/hiatus between issues 4 and 5: so that the planned issues that they already have laid out will line up right for next summer's Harbinger Wars 2. They needed to start the series when they did, for whatever reason, and they needed the story to intersect in the right months for next summers event. So they delayed it after the first arc. I could be wrong of course. But since the failure of the first Eternal Warrior series, Valiant has been very solid about working very far with a new series before even releasing its first issue. Bloodshot Reborn had a lot of work and art done for the first years worth of issues before #1 came out. The only series before Renegade that they did a real hiatus for was Rai, and that was so they could keep the same artist through all the issues.

Give then the benefit of the doubt, or don't if you don't want to. I'm hanging in to see what's coming next.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:22:24 pm 
H.A.R.D.E.R. Corps, with Extra Resistance
H.A.R.D.E.R. Corps, with Extra Resistance
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Phoenix8008 wrote:
I liked this issue for what it was, and I'm not to bent out of shape that it's causing a delay in the 'main' story. I'm gonna trust the writer that this is the proper way to tell the story, and see where it goes from here.
TheeBaldMoose wrote:
Dean Koontz writes a great deal like this, chapters that bounce around a little, and spin and spin until they all meet in the middle.
I was thinking of Tom Clancy, myself. In a thousand page book, he can use the first 400 pages 'setting up all the dominoes' - showing you all the characters, where they are, and what they're doing from all angles. Then, with one little push, one domino falls into the next, and then you've got 600 pages of non stop action and activity while everything goes nuts, until the last domino falls and it all resolves into a neat picture in the end.

This is all set up, folks. It's giving us context for what's to come. Could it have been ordered better? Maybe. But we won't be able to know until we've got the whole thing in our hands and can go back to 2nd guess everything. My guess as to why they did the delay/hiatus between issues 4 and 5: so that the planned issues that they already have laid out will line up right for next summer's Harbinger Wars 2. They needed to start the series when they did, for whatever reason, and they needed the story to intersect in the right months for next summers event. So they delayed it after the first arc. I could be wrong of course. But since the failure of the first Eternal Warrior series, Valiant has been very solid about working very far with a new series before even releasing its first issue. Bloodshot Reborn had a lot of work and art done for the first years worth of issues before #1 came out. The only series before Renegade that they did a real hiatus for was Rai, and that was so they could keep the same artist through all the issues.

Give then the benefit of the doubt, or don't if you don't want to. I'm hanging in to see what's coming next.


I think we all are, our opinions just differ on execution... :thumb:

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:16:57 pm 
Mmm, I was drooling over Cooshie tonight.
Mmm, I was drooling over Cooshie tonight.
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Phoenix8008 wrote:
I liked this issue for what it was, and I'm not to bent out of shape that it's causing a delay in the 'main' story. I'm gonna trust the writer that this is the proper way to tell the story, and see where it goes from here.
TheeBaldMoose wrote:
Dean Koontz writes a great deal like this, chapters that bounce around a little, and spin and spin until they all meet in the middle.
I was thinking of Tom Clancy, myself.


That's funny cuz when he mentioned Koontz, I thought of saying the same about Clancy.

The order and timing of how they choose to unfold all of this doesn't bother me at all. Can't wait to see where it's all headed!


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:04:09 am 
H.A.R.D.E.R. Corps, with Extra Resistance
H.A.R.D.E.R. Corps, with Extra Resistance
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I thought this was an 'ok' read, not too many twists and a bit heavy on fight scenes. I haven't listened to the OTV podcast review yet, and reading previous posts it seems like that will open my eyes to parts of this story I haven't picked up on. However, that brings me to another point. If there are hidden layers to this issue, then perhaps they're a bit too 'hidden' if only super readers like Chris can unravel them? :?
This issue did seem to be oddly placed unless the creature appears in the next couple of issues?

Ryp art was a big step up from Robertson's cartoony style.

3/5 - might go up after listening to OTV


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:45:11 pm 
Mmm, I was drooling over Cooshie tonight.
Mmm, I was drooling over Cooshie tonight.
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Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
If there are hidden layers to this issue, then perhaps they're a bit too 'hidden' if only super readers like Chris can unravel them? :?


I wonder that as well. If this is, indeed, some grand tale spun across years of issues and multiple titles, what is the chance that it will be appreciated by the average reader?

To be honest, I can't even say for sure that when I first read them, I realized the prologues were working backward. In and of themselves, they can stand alone or simply as a flashback in their particular issue. And with 30 days between issues it's easy to forget what was in the last prologue. Numbering them would have helped ie "End Prologue Part 3".


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:07:01 am 
H.A.R.D.E.R. Corps, with Extra Resistance
H.A.R.D.E.R. Corps, with Extra Resistance
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The resurrected Valiant podcast released an interview with Rafer Roberts who revealed this series will have breaks after each story arc ala Rai. The main reason he gave was so Robertson could continue the art chores on the book, IMHO I think his art is B level at best compared to some of VEI's big hitters and if anything I'd welcome an art change on this book rather stalling the development of the story :?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:13:11 am 
H.A.R.D.E.R. Corps, with Extra Resistance
H.A.R.D.E.R. Corps, with Extra Resistance
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jmatt wrote:

To be honest, I can't even say for sure that when I first read them, I realized the prologues were working backward. In and of themselves, they can stand alone or simply as a flashback in their particular issue. And with 30 days between issues it's easy to forget what was in the last prologue. Numbering them would have helped ie "End Prologue Part 3".


TBH I can barely remember the prologues and definitely didn't know the worked in reverse order facepalm. I need to do a re-read at some point.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:25:14 am 
You gotta have Faith!
You gotta have Faith!
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Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
The resurrected Valiant podcast released an interview with Rafer Roberts who revealed this series will have breaks after each story arc ala Rai. The main reason he gave was so Robertson could continue the art chores on the book, IMHO I think his art is B level at best compared to some of VEI's big hitters and if anything I'd welcome an art change on this book rather stalling the development of the story :?

Valiant shouldn't be treating the Harbinger series like Rai. Back then Valiant was releasing a few more books per months including more ongoings, and right now they're down to 6-7 series and only 2-3 ongoing series. It sucks. Also, I can see why Clayton Crain needed some extra time for his artwork - in case of Robertson's artwork not so much... and he didn't have to do anything for issue #6.

Anyhow, this is the road to HWARS2 as of now:
OCT - HR #8
NOV - HR #0
DEC - HWARS2 #0 (exclusive)
JAN-APR - ???
MAY - HWARS2

I expect another 3-4 issues of something HWARS2 related between DEC-APR. Valiant needs to build (not loose) momentum towards the big event kicking off in...


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:08:13 pm 
not unlike me
not unlike me
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Thegreatmagnet wrote:


I haven't listed to Valiant podcasts in a long time... my commute to work is short now, so I don't have the opportunity.

BUT... I did listen to this one on Harbinger Renegade #6... and the EXCELLENT homework of studying that went into it.

If my latest "crazy theory" ends up true, then a big partial credit goes to VCR 128. :thumb:

Crazy Theory: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=50428


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:51:08 pm 
Clinkin' bottles with Aram
Clinkin' bottles with Aram
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Thanks for the kind words everybody, glad you enjoy the show.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:10:12 pm 
Is it Dee-no or Die-no? Dunno.
Is it Dee-no or Die-no? Dunno.
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I'm sure they're completely separate, but what was the Eternal Warrior villain's name in that one-shot? Alpha-something, right? It just confused me when I saw another character named Alpha.

EDIT: the book was Eternal Warrior Awakening #1 and the villain was Alpha Hyamm. Also sits on a skull throne. However it says at the end that the Fell Legion tears itself apart fighting to become the new "Alpha" who wears the wolf jawbone crown.

I don't know, it seems like it might be connected but I don't know how. The Fell Legion seemed about on par with the Nergal horde, but Alpha Hyamm seemed like a one-off villain who seemed very dead at the end.

EDIT: Oh, and as far as Alpha goes--does anyone think that he will devour psiots and gain their power? I have a bit of an Apocalypse from Marvel comics feeling from him since his name implies he's the first psiot.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:49:38 pm 
Mmm, I was drooling over Cooshie tonight.
Mmm, I was drooling over Cooshie tonight.
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I wondered the same thing. But the name seemed to be the only similarity and Gillie killed him without all that much effort, as I recall.

But thanks for giving me another opportunity to remember Hawkeye's Jerry Lewis imitation from the podcast. :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:16:59 am 
You gotta have Faith!
You gotta have Faith!
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Perhaps there is a connection between Dark Star -the evil entity that possesses the black cat- and the Alpha? They both have very similar (if not identical) powers. Of course, being trapped inside a cat's body has its limitations and there's only so much a psiot can do with a brain the size of a cat's brain, yet P.R.S. is trying hard to catch the cat asap, and imprison it again (level 9 security).

H:R #1 ends with Harada saying "He seeks to devour us; you've unleashed horror!"

Dark Star's first appearance is in Faith #5.

Both issues came out in Nov 2016, and both must have been plotted around the same time, too.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:50:36 pm 
Just jumpin' through time arcs, that's all.
Just jumpin' through time arcs, that's all.
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I just went back and re-read all of these comments, and I need to add something.

People are giving me credit for something I did not find. It was the OTV podcast that found the pro-logs and if they were read backwards, I was just the first to put a voice to them. I am pretty sure I credited the OTV podcast when I first mentioned it, if not my apologies.

I love to listen to not only the OTV, but Get Valiant and a host of other Valiant based podcasts. I mix what I read, along with what they read, to give me a better understanding of the book.

Just didn't want to claim credit that wasn't mine to claim.

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