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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:53:53 pm 
Chapa Zero in Portuguese translated to English would be Chapa Zero.
Chapa Zero in Portuguese translated to English would be Chapa Zero.
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S***.
I have sort of mixed feelings about this,on one hand VEI delivered a Massacre, but "Major Death" is something I would apply to only to the company's A-listers (in this book, any of the OG Renegades, Solomon or Palmer); I'm with jmatt in the sense that Cronus was going to be important, but not a Major character, right now. Another Gen 0 mini or even a 0 issue for him alone could have made his death a little more WOW (I know nothing of the dude, except his real name and his powers- if his origin was told anywhere I missed it/don't remember it right now); on the other hand, jeezez, Massacre, indeed.

The WTF? death in here, to me at least, was Telic's. Palmer twisting the neck of a 15 yo girl (terrorist, yeah, whatever- 15 years old) is maybe, character assassination of the Gunslinger, but that maybe me. I always liked Palmer and his no non-sense approach to Psiots a LOT and we saw how brutal they are in the first Wars, but here I think he would have found a non-lethal way to stop her. Flatline was around him, the two of them could do it, in my head. One of the things that Palmer always had for him was preparation- if he did not want to kill that girl, he would not do it, I think. That scene came out like he simply doesn't care for the human in the psiot. I don't like this character. I understand the reasoning (all those soldiers lost to "children", I have PTS but don't treat myself, etc, whatever), but I can't absolutely, no way in hell, root for a guy who did what he just did. H.A.R.D Corps became something I do not like, and I'm a H.A.R.D Cat, badge and all that!
*SQUEE* the Corps! :lol:

On a lighter note: Cthulhu grabbing an aeroplane is something I never would expect to see in a Valiant comic! :clap: :clap: :clap:

I won't comment on the Trump bit. That's for another place, if any. :wink:

EDIT- Had a second read, the detail that Palmer tries to warn Telic passed my head among the bloodfest. I still come out of this issue not liking the dude, but fair enough, he does warn her.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:19:19 am 
You gotta have Faith!
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jeremycoe wrote:
My honest opinion is that I thought the story was very good, but I'm not sure I agree with the advertising it as a "major" character death. I think all comic companies do that, to an extent. It will be interesting to see where the story goes from here.


Not just a major character. Major "icon."

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:27:50 am 
Harbinger rank: Aonisaibushi
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A few thoughts...

1) Gamete was a problem because she(?) Would have been the third born activated psiot. But then there's the matter of Alpha apparently. So problem solved. Much like...

2) a cynical person might day, man! People really hated that Gen Zero book! They were vocally upset about how it didn't fit and was the wrong direction. Ok then, they're gone! Problem solved, right you guys?

3) I kind of feel weird the way this issue was promoted, as some people say. Death (even on a much more massive scale than this issue) is a staple of the Valiant universe. Look at Mexico CIty, or New Japan, or Lyceum. Good God, the carnage! But it doesn't feel like it was celebrated in this way. Mass death is usually treated with sober gravitas. But here, it's like both the company and the fans had a big old death boner, and I was not immune. I thought that we would see a death that meant something, like Death of a Renegade, but it doesn't feel that way...

4) Perhaps if it was well executed, I would feel totally different, but I had big problems with the scripting and the art. The writing I found very shallow and I have problems with some logic and some characterizations (who are these Gen Zero kids? Not the same ones who diced up H.A.R.D. corps in HW1). And artwise, style is totally subjective, and there are some decent panels...not generally the actiony panels. Some of the action scenes, namely with Telic I found impossible to decipher. I thought the visual storytelling failed in places.

5) I think that if this was not as highly hyped, my evaluation might be kinder. This was so built up, that I expected a very polished product, so the flaws seem a bit more serious. I understand that they needed to bring readers back in after the sales were slipping and the book was going on hiatus. I think issue 6 and 7 sales will definitely speak to how effective this was to pull readers back in to the title.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:01:05 pm 
Harbinger rank: Shinia
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The warning cover seemed to be a bit of over the top marketing. Violence-wise I felt like the violence in SAVAGE, for example, was much more shocking.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:06:33 pm 
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kinggirlfriend wrote:
The warning cover seemed to be a bit of over the top marketing. Violence-wise I felt like the violence in SAVAGE, for example, was much more shocking.


I think Animalia's actions were more shocking than anything in Savage, at least to me.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:41:09 pm 
Just jumpin' through time arcs, that's all.
Just jumpin' through time arcs, that's all.
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ShadowTuga wrote:
I won't comment on the Trump bit. That's for another place, if any. :wink:


In an interview with CBR, Dinesh spoke to this very thing. What they were trying to point out is that the world does see the Gen Zero kids more as terrorists. Think about it, what if this really happened? What if a group took over a small to mid sized American city? We would send in forces. IF this were to happen during the Obama administration, Dinesh said that they would have had him on TV doing a press conference. Trump tweets a bunch, so they decided to go with that. He said it had nothing to do with politics (although there is probably SOME politics involved).

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:41:54 pm 
Just jumpin' through time arcs, that's all.
Just jumpin' through time arcs, that's all.
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http://www.cbr.com/valiant-death-harbin ... &view=list


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:27:10 pm 
Harbinger rank: Shinia
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jeremycoe wrote:
kinggirlfriend wrote:
The warning cover seemed to be a bit of over the top marketing. Violence-wise I felt like the violence in SAVAGE, for example, was much more shocking.


I think Animalia's actions were more shocking than anything in Savage, at least to me.



For me it was the execution. Clayton Henry really sold the situation in SAVAGE and made me care about the characters. The impact felt real. HARBINGER #5 had more violence but it all felt hollow to me, even though I cared about these characters. It all came off very cartoonish to me.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:50:46 pm 
Is it Dee-no or Die-no? Dunno.
Is it Dee-no or Die-no? Dunno.
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well, this certainly lived up to the name Massacre. I agree with some people, the death of Chronus didn't seem as big as the hype to me, I was more moved by Granite's than anything else. this read more like Generation Zero #10 than an issue of Harbinger, I would've liked to have seen the Renegades make an appearance.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:48:40 pm 
Just jumpin' through time arcs, that's all.
Just jumpin' through time arcs, that's all.
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mateo107 wrote:
well, this certainly lived up to the name Massacre. I agree with some people, the death of Chronus didn't seem as big as the hype to me, I was more moved by Granite's than anything else. this read more like Generation Zero #10 than an issue of Harbinger, I would've liked to have seen the Renegades make an appearance.


Oh, I think these actions will be noticed by the Harbinger group. Omen's next target is Solomon...

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:51:08 pm 
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I think the diversity of opinions about this book are great!

I think the diversity of opinions about how to spell Cronus are less great.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:38:53 pm 
H.A.R.D.E.R. Corps, with Extra Resistance
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mateo107 wrote:
well, this certainly lived up to the name Massacre. I agree with some people, the death of Chronus didn't seem as big as the hype to me, I was more moved by Granite's than anything else. this read more like Generation Zero #10 than an issue of Harbinger, I would've liked to have seen the Renegades make an appearance.


That part....

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:41:50 pm 
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Dr. Solar wrote:
I think the diversity of opinions about this book are great!

I think the diversity of opinions about how to spell Cronus are less great.


This one is on VEI. I believe when the character was introduced, it was spelled "Cronos", and they changed it in the next issue or two without mentioning it. It didn't bother me at the time, aside from me feeling slightly foolish.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:54:52 pm 
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Also why didn't Telic see all this coming, especially her own death? Someone on Reddit mentioned how they imagined a better writer could have done something really cool with her death, using the concept of he powers. The more I think about this issue the more I feel like it doesn't hold up to what we've seen before. *sigh*


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:59:28 pm 
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kinggirlfriend wrote:
Also why didn't Telic see all this coming, especially her own death? Someone on Reddit mentioned how they imagined a better writer could have done something really cool with her death, using the concept of he powers. The more I think about this issue the more I feel like it doesn't hold up to what we've seen before. *sigh*


It really doesn't, once Dysart stopped writing her she basically became the Bionic Woman.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:22:45 pm 
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How about this problem...Dysart confirmed (see link below) that anti-psiot dampeners should disable H.A.R.D. Corps powers exactly the same as psiots. So in reality, once they activated the egg, all the H.A.R.D. Corps would have fallen to their deaths, along with Animalia...

https://twitter.com/thagreatmagnet/status/885908586974461952


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:28:01 pm 
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Thegreatmagnet wrote:
How about this problem...Dysart confirmed (see link below) that anti-psiot dampeners should disable H.A.R.D. Corps powers exactly the same as psiots. So in reality, once they activated the egg, all the H.A.R.D. Corps would have fallen to their deaths, along with Animalia...

https://twitter.com/thagreatmagnet/status/885908586974461952


facepalm


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:41:31 pm 
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So they made a psiot dampener that only effects true psiots and not HARD Corps members. :?

Psiot dampeners that worked on psiots and not HARD Corps would be a super high priority of PRS.

If you need PRS Scientist #0 to show that development before you will make that leap, then I can't help you :P

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:45:08 pm 
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Dr. Solar wrote:
So they made a psiot dampener that only effects true psiots and not HARD Corps members. :?

Psiot dampeners that worked on psiots and not HARD Corps would be a super high priority of PRS.

If you need PRS Scientist #0 to show that development before you will make that leap, then I can't help you :P


HA! Told ya Travis :wink:


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:49:33 pm 
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hawkeyeps wrote:
HA! Told ya Travis :wink:

You're welcome.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:50:01 pm 
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Oh wow! I actually had that thought while reading the book. I thought it should cancel out everyone's powers. jeez. So sloppy. :!:


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:52:58 pm 
Just jumpin' through time arcs, that's all.
Just jumpin' through time arcs, that's all.
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kinggirlfriend wrote:
Also why didn't Telic see all this coming, especially her own death? Someone on Reddit mentioned how they imagined a better writer could have done something really cool with her death, using the concept of he powers. The more I think about this issue the more I feel like it doesn't hold up to what we've seen before. *sigh*


This could be attributed to emotion (which happens a ton in real war). She already had started tearing up when she realized Cronus was gonna get snipped. From there, she just went balls to the wall, with one objective, kill Palmer. When she got caught in the headlock by Palmer, she refused to give up, and (by the looks of the book) broke her own neck. He had warned her to stop fighting, but she refused.

My humble interpretation....

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:59:20 pm 
Just jumpin' through time arcs, that's all.
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hawkeyeps wrote:
Thegreatmagnet wrote:
How about this problem...Dysart confirmed (see link below) that anti-psiot dampeners should disable H.A.R.D. Corps powers exactly the same as psiots. So in reality, once they activated the egg, all the H.A.R.D. Corps would have fallen to their deaths, along with Animalia...

https://twitter.com/thagreatmagnet/status/885908586974461952


facepalm


WOW! Spot on theory! They couldn't even get a reset/reboot, as they would be affected just as long as everyone else. At first I was thinking this would be like a BSOD for the HARD Corps, but that too would have to last the 90 seconds(?) before a reboot would work. Also, no parachutes, so....

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:10:07 pm 
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Why didn't Telic just tackle Cronus once she knew the bullet was on the way?

Wouldn't that be more in line with her power set? Perception then action? Not just "Hey Cronus look out..."

You would think if anybody could see a sniper's shot coming and react appropriately it would be Telic, that would be like an easy one for her.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:20:42 pm 
I sell comics, I collect Valiant.
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Dr. Solar wrote:
I think the diversity of opinions about this book are great!

I think the diversity of opinions about how to spell Cronus are less great.


Just call him by his real name, it's easier.


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