Harbinger: Renegade #5 Discussion

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Harbinger: Renegade #5 Discussion

Post by DirtbagSailor »

I will list no spoilers. However, I do expect that there will be some discussion to follow after everyone reads and forms his/her own opinion on what Valiant is trying to do and/or the clear message they are trying to send to readers.

FACT. There can be no argument that Valiant produced a violent massacre that does indeed affect the current roster of known characters in the Valiant Universe; and that Valiant is bold enough to have its own Walking Dead or Game of Thrones moments.

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Re: Harbinger: Renegade #5 Discussion

Post by pixierosa »

I believe what Valiant is trying to do is sell comic books. The message, if there is one, is that nothing is simple, including "rights and wrongs". All shades of gray and viewpoints.

This one is a shocker. It will punch you in the gut.
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Re: Harbinger: Renegade #5 Discussion

Post by nonplayer »

Who died :?
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Re: Harbinger: Renegade #5 Discussion

Post by agent_graves »

nonplayer wrote:Who died :?
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Soon... :!:
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Re: Harbinger: Renegade #5 Discussion

Post by TheeBaldMoose »

It's like Christmas time where the parent is excited for the child to open presents, and the child is excited because it gets presents.

The difference is I'm excited about this because you're excited about death
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Re: Harbinger: Renegade #5 Discussion

Post by grendeljd »

I am almost literally biting my tongue to prevent me from commenting on this until Wednesday.
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Re: Harbinger: Renegade #5 Discussion

Post by nonplayer »

Their is still a flame in my heart for Flamingo. This death can't be worse.
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Re: Harbinger: Renegade #5 Discussion

Post by Thegreatmagnet »

grendeljd wrote:I am almost literally biting my tongue to prevent me from commenting on this until Wednesday.
I'm right there with you, Shakes. I'm holding back my review until Wednesday, even though it is spoiler free.

I just want to ask that everybody be respectful and constructive as we discuss the issue, granted that's rarely an issue on this board. I think that this might generate some spicy discussion. We're all here because we love Valiant.

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Re: Harbinger: Renegade #5 Discussion

Post by grendeljd »

Thegreatmagnet wrote:
grendeljd wrote:I am almost literally biting my tongue to prevent me from commenting on this until Wednesday.
I'm right there with you, Shakes. I'm holding back my review until Wednesday, even though it is spoiler free.

I just want to ask that everybody be respectful and constructive as we discuss the issue, granted that's rarely an issue on this board. I think that this might generate some spicy discussion. We're all here because we love Valiant.
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Re: Harbinger: Renegade #5 Discussion

Post by Keith »

And there we go... just finished reading it off Comixology.

Ugh... it was a massacre. They weren't kidding. Still absorbing it all, but that was brutal. I might take issue with the use of the word Iconic in all the advertising, but regardless, this was a game changer.

Cant wait for the conversations to come out of this. Agree with the earlier sentiment - lets just remember we all love Valiant, mmmmkay?
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Re: Harbinger: Renegade #5 Discussion

Post by Nairbe »

Agreed, definitely a massacre. My only compliant is that was it really an Icon that died as Valiant was pushing?

Great story (best Harbinger book since Dysart), very interested to see where they go from here. But I believe there was a bit of overhype to this, and I was a huge fan of the deceased here (being overly general to avoid spoilers).

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Re: Harbinger: Renegade #5 Discussion

Post by Joshua »

Incredible issue.

I think it was a brilliant bit of misdirection. Everyone was trying to figure out the one person that would get killed that you didn't think it could be multiples.

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Re: Harbinger: Renegade #5 Discussion

Post by SuperMage »

Am I allowed to posed uncensored spoilers?

I'm a little surprised that Keisha Sherman was so unfazed by the violence. I understand that recording the attack was important so that people know the truth, but she did seem to be very broken up about it.

Cronus' death was clearly the one Valiant was billing. For a while there I thought Animal was going to bite the dust. I'll miss Vagabond and Granite. They were fun while they lasted, but that's part of the deal with H.A.R.D. Corps, anyone can die at any moment. I was surprised that the offed Telic, and Gamma though.
Both those deaths certainly felt brutal, expecially considering Gamma''s situation as an unborn child.

So obviously an future Generation Zero series won't be set in Rook. Not surprising given that every Valiant relaunch has put the heroes in new situations. I wasn't expecting Rook to last. At this point though Animalia, Cloud, and the Twins are the only active Zeroes. They'll need more members if they want to still consider themselves a team.

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Re: Harbinger: Renegade #5 Discussion

Post by Keith »

I think using spoilers for today is appropriate, despite this typically being the No-Spoilers section. Let's help our ValiantFans brothers and sisters avoid having anything ruined as best as possible. If someone chooses to read the spoilers, then that's on them! :)
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Re: Harbinger: Renegade #5 Discussion

Post by BugsySig »

One could easily see the survivors joining up with the titular heroes in the future.
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Re: Harbinger: Renegade #5 Discussion

Post by Thegreatmagnet »

The headline I gave my review is " See me after class."

http://www.comicsthegathering.com/revie ... renegade-5" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

EDIT: soooo....apparently Valiant had my review taken down because they claimed it had spoilers. Personally I dispute that any plot details ran afoul of the instructions that they provided with the review PDF. In any event, the review will be re-posted in its entirety on Friday.

I really think the spoiler thing is being overblown, especially since there are now multiple podcasts that go full spoiler. I'm sure it has nothing to do with the review being negative... :?
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Re: Harbinger: Renegade #5 Discussion

Post by Dr. Solar »

Man. What a tough issue.

The plot? Awesome and hugely impactful.

The storytelling? problematic, and very hit-and-miss.
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Re: Harbinger: Renegade #5 Discussion

Post by Keith »

BugsySig wrote:One could easily see the survivors joining up with the titular heroes in the future.
Yep, absolutely.

In fact, I was previously thinking on my last minute hunch that Gen Zero would be decimated, that Telic would move over to Solomon's organization. Wrong there!
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Re: Harbinger: Renegade #5 Discussion

Post by paradise »

Joshua wrote:Incredible issue.

I think it was a brilliant bit of misdirection. Everyone was trying to figure out the one person that would get killed that you didn't think it could be multiples.
The word Massacre hardly ever implies one person :lol:
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Re: Harbinger: Renegade #5 Discussion

Post by TheeBaldMoose »

Dr. Solar wrote:Man. What a tough issue.

The plot? Awesome and hugely impactful.

The storytelling? problematic, and very hit-and-miss.
Hmm, I disagree here. The plot was awesome, but I thought the story flowed exceptionally well. Guess I didn't see it like you did, thought the fog of war was played out well, mistakes were made (as they often are in war). Really thought the flow was solid, it moved in a direction that you would expect. Especially with the plane falling. while they are battling in the air,
the airplane crashes and wipes out so many children!

SuperMage wrote:Am I allowed to posed uncensored spoilers?

I'm a little surprised that Keisha Sherman was so unfazed by the violence. I understand that recording the attack was important so that people know the truth, but she did seem to be very broken up about it.

Cronus' death was clearly the one Valiant was billing. For a while there I thought Animal was going to bite the dust. I'll miss Vagabond and Granite. They were fun while they lasted, but that's part of the deal with H.A.R.D. Corps, anyone can die at any moment. I was surprised that the offed Telic, and Gamma though.
Both those deaths certainly felt brutal, expecially considering Gamma''s situation as an unborn child.

So obviously an future Generation Zero series won't be set in Rook. Not surprising given that every Valiant relaunch has put the heroes in new situations. I wasn't expecting Rook to last. At this point though Animalia, Cloud, and the Twins are the only active Zeroes. They'll need more members if they want to still consider themselves a team.
Jeezuz, it's like you were in my head. I've been chewing on all these points in my brain! Especially if Cloud is still alive. That, and could the fetus have survived? Not likely, as those bullets were straight to the abdomen. That death alone is one of the most graphic deaths i've seen in some time!
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Re: Harbinger: Renegade #5 Discussion

Post by agent_graves »

A lot of mixed feelings, although it's less about character, and more about story and continuation from what came before.... 8-)

She survived, so I'm good... :thumb:

Overall, I liked it, a little thin though. (24pgs) I assumed the 5 month gap would allow for the story to be expanded, (40pgs) and include the characters that was billed to show up.... :?
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Re: Harbinger: Renegade #5 Discussion

Post by Dr. Solar »

For the podcast inclined, Jeff and I talk about this issue for an almost an hour in today's VCR.

VCR 125: Harbinger Renegade #5
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Re: Harbinger: Renegade #5 Discussion

Post by jeremycoe »

My honest opinion is that I thought the story was very good, but I'm not sure I agree with the advertising it as a "major" character death. I think all comic companies do that, to an extent. It will be interesting to see where the story goes from here.
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Re: Harbinger: Renegade #5 Discussion

Post by TheeBaldMoose »

Hey,

what's the difference between Jam and Jelly?

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Re: Harbinger: Renegade #5 Discussion

Post by Dr. Solar »

TheeBaldMoose wrote:Hey,

what's the difference between Jam and Jelly?
I can't step on a Jamfish on the beach!
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