destined to die?

[jkingman]

so...I'm going to discuss some old school Valiant, don't know if spoiler alerts are necessary for 20 year old comics...

but my basic question is, are characters like Torque and Rai and others who died historic deaths in the classic U destined to die early deaths again? I was so crazy disappointed when Rai died, although it is one of the best deaths ever and I wonder if he did survive and went on to some maybe "less than great" stories...would I care about the character as much? Or is it the early death that makes him so legendary?

Old Torque, I was glad to see him go. New Torque, I would miss him...I find him much more interesting and full of potential...so maybe his death would be "great"?

Would anyone be disappointed if these characters don't die?

[lorddunlow]

As far as 20 year old spoilers go, I've been told I have to suck it up and put up with them. (I had no idea about the Visitor and that got spoiled for me on this site; guess I should have read the series in the past decade or so.) So, they are definitely fair game.

As for destined to die: I don't think VEI plans on following anything "just because it was that way in VH1". I definitely think Dysart is screwing with our heads, precisely because Torque died in VH1, but who knows what's really going to happen.

[BugsySig]

You make a valid point about Tohru. I often wonder the same about my fondness for him. Though I also wonder if the Malev War--a pretty good storyline--would have been better with Tohru.

Torque, I agree, was not a huge loss when he was killed off. I always thought his death served the story and other characters much better, though, than Tohru's. When Rai was killed during Unity it struck me more as a headline grab: Major character does during Unity! Knowing there were original plans to continue the series with Tohru after the crash of Japan, I always feel a little short changed by his death.

This time around, I believe the characters will stick around longer. No. 1: The Renegades have already been put through the ringer and we've seen people die (Joe, the Gen Zero kids, etc.). No. 2: Dysart already addressed the elephant in the room by "killing" Torque in the dream world...that is if Torque doesn't end up dying anyway No. 3: Just the nature of storytelling now...the four issue arcs, decompression, etc...it's hard to properly introduce a character enough to have their death be meaningful if its done too soon.

[MarkRoseHFX]

I'm of the mindset that VH1 were stories that have already been told. So none of the events absolutely HAVE to happen again in VEI. So if the deaths of certain characters make a good story, fine. It should just about that. making good stories.

[blujay]

No. 3: Just the nature of storytelling now...the four issue arcs, decompression, etc...it's hard to properly introduce a character enough to have their death be meaningful if its done too soon.

This is a pretty important factor to consider. If they do kill off a major character, I would hope they'd take a couple years to do it

[kjjohanson]

No. 3: Just the nature of storytelling now...the four issue arcs, decompression, etc...it's hard to properly introduce a character enough to have their death be meaningful if its done too soon.

This is a pretty important factor to consider. If they do kill off a major character, I would hope they'd take a couple years to do it

So you're looking for a slow, painful death?

[Ramses818]

I love Rai. His character was very strong because of his death. It also established that bad things can and do happen to the heroes of the Valiant Universe (esp. anyone named Rai!). I really do believe that if he had lived longer it would have diluted the character. Further he opened up so many more stories further down the line (in every sense of the word) with his death.

Even Torques death was helpful. The love triangle was so played out already in X-Men so it allowed better drama with Kris being pregnant with his baby. The tension was much better for Peter and the gang. No did not like Torque by the way.

[jkingman]

so in the future should I use this when talking about classic Valiant in a thread or is the spoiler area heading enough to warn people away? just want to make sure I do things correctly.

[Newton]

I share all of your thoughts about Rai and thought about it a lot after the teaser page in Unity #1. I did a VH1 re-read this last year and the original Rai issues are maybe the strongest story thread for me. I do think the death of the original Rai make him more compelling. The heavy Japanese elements (struggles with tradition, honor, family, etc.) of the original Rai also made him compelling.

I am not sure I would want to see a new Rai introduced and then killed promptly afterwards, but I would very much like to see the other elements from the original Rai be part of the new character incarnation.

The Maleev War Rai was still pretty cool. He was a strong leader which I dig. I think the fact that he shared the spotlight with Magnus weakened the character a little bit. We are not likely to see that problem this time around.

Later on, Rai and Magnus just became about the 2 brothers which was just less interesting really.

Rai is my most anticipated moment in the new Valiant books by far other than the seeing a new Valiant book on the stands with X-O #1. Anxious to see what comes of this.

[Knightt]

New Torque, I would miss him...

Not me... I think he is about as useful as a used Country Flowers scented Massengill Disposable *SQUEE* found in a Wal-Mart parking lot. He is a mission liability whose pretentious behavior and bad attitude make him my least favorite character in the Valiant Universe.

Torque's pink slip cannot arrive fast enough... IMO.

[Knightt]

so in the future should I use this when talking about classic Valiant in a thread or is the spoiler area heading enough to warn people away? just want to make sure I do things correctly.

Protect information however you will but if members get butt hurt for reading spoilers in the SPOILERS SECTION they have only themselves to blame.

[BugsySig]

so in the future should I use this when talking about classic Valiant in a thread or is the spoiler area heading enough to warn people away? just want to make sure I do things correctly.

Protect information however you will but if members get butt hurt for reading spoilers in the SPOILERS SECTION they have only themselves to blame.

Or if they still expect people to keep quiet about books that are 20 years old Rosebud was his sled, people. His sled.

[lorddunlow]

so in the future should I use this when talking about classic Valiant in a thread or is the spoiler area heading enough to warn people away? just want to make sure I do things correctly.

Protect information however you will but if members get butt hurt for reading spoilers in the SPOILERS SECTION they have only themselves to blame.

Or if they still expect people to keep quiet about books that are 20 years old Rosebud was his sled, people. His sled.

Damn you, Bugsy! I was going to watch that movie!

Oddly, when I watched Citizen Kane, I had had nothing spoiled. I'll whine about what I want to whine about!

[X-O HoboJoe]

I think he is about as useful as a used Country Flowers scented Massengill Disposable *SQUEE* found in a Wal-Mart parking lot.

[KXXX]

I think it's a little early to judge Rai. Honestly, I don't think he's going to be what we expect. Based solely on the teaser, I think this book is going to have a sense of humor about it like no other.

"You are safe."

It reeks of dystopian future, 1984 and *SQUEE*. Something about that though... something funny. Something like the sense of humor in the original Robocop.

Anyway... Rai's death allowed Bloodshot to be an important character in the universe. Not that he wouldn't have been anyway, but it gave an opportunity to bridge the gap between 1992 and 4001. I don't know that we'll need this now. Bloodshot is already established, the universe can be built with him instead of around him. However, if Rai is a lineage, we could potentially see lots of dead Rais.

As for Torque, I think it would be a disservice to off him in the near future. We've seen some characters grow, I think Flamingo and Faith most noticeably, but not Torque so much. I think the dynamic of his condition is far too interesting and has far too much potential to not explore before killing him. It would be a titanic waste of a fantastic twist to let him go. Original Torque was about as flat and uninteresting as the rest of the original Harbinger kids, so I wasn't moved a bit (although it was spoiled for me by reading Unity before the original issues). He was even kind of a *SQUEE*, and though new Torque is as well, he definitely has a third, lovable dimension to him.

[Baramos]

I don't know about an early death, but think about it: if Valiant manages to become a big name again and we are reading Valiant comics in ten years, do you really want them to maintain the status quo like other comic book companies? Heck, in ten years, I want them to have killed off three or four main characters like Aric of Dacia or Peter Stanchek. It's the only way to really avoid the trap they will create for themselves through continued success.

[Spylocke]

I don't know about an early death, but think about it: if Valiant manages to become a big name again and we are reading Valiant comics in ten years, do you really want them to maintain the status quo like other comic book companies? Heck, in ten years, I want them to have killed off three or four main characters like Aric of Dacia or Peter Stanchek. It's the only way to really avoid the trap they will create for themselves through continued success.

I worry more about what would happen to me personally if Valiant got mega-successful. I'm afraid I'd turn into some comic book hipster bragging that I was into Rotwak before he became cool.

[jmatt]

I don't know about an early death, but think about it: if Valiant manages to become a big name again and we are reading Valiant comics in ten years, do you really want them to maintain the status quo like other comic book companies? Heck, in ten years, I want them to have killed off three or four main characters like Aric of Dacia or Peter Stanchek. It's the only way to really avoid the trap they will create for themselves through continued success.

I worry more about what would happen to me personally if Valiant got mega-successful. I'm afraid I'd turn into some comic book hipster bragging that I was into Rotwak before he became cool.