Harbinger #15 Discussion

[bygranddesign]

I know that a lot of people will judge this issue by how it is played out in the rest of the arc

But I enjoyed it as a self contained story. I think its very tough to create a SURREAL comic book reading experience and at the same time enjoy character interactions that were genuine, funny, heartfelt and ultimately sad and tragic. It was the gambit of emotion and surrealism that I loved. The art wasn't perfect ... but I think it was incredibly well executed overall.

[pixierosa]

Sometimes some girls end up making out with their friends when they are out partying. It's not surprising that Charlene initiated the kiss, she is a former amateur porn star. It also isn't that surprising that Kris enjoyed the kiss. Kissing girls is awesome! Who wants to kiss a dude? Nobody, that's who.

I think that's the best post I've ever read on this board.

Thanks Heath.

Speak for yourself. Not all girls are good kissers. Some even have bad breath.

But this was a very good story with some very well done character interactions. I didn't realize how much of a risk it was until reading some of the reviews, so kudos to the team. I enjoyed this and am looking forward to the next one.

[The Dirt Gang]

Shadowman99 - I hear what you are saying. I kind of felt the same at the end of the issue and my first thought about the ending was Dysart had jumped the shark, however, it's an issue that I keep thinking about and trying to work it out like some kind of puzzle. It was definitely a strange issue but I enjoyed it.

[Chiclo]

Of course, girls like kissing other girls. I also know for a fact that they enjoy pillow fighting in negligee, mud wrestling and wet t-shirt contests.

Only when framed as doing so for charity.

[kjjohanson]

Having re-read the issue, I'm pretty sure that Torque is going to come out of this alive. I think Kris appearing to herself at the concert is a classic example of Chekhov's gun. We needed something to clue us in that what we're seeing in the issue is not reality. While it's possible that Torque getting attacked in this dream/mindscape/whatever affects his real-life counterpart, I'm going to guess the damage will not be permanent. If I'm right, then I think Dysart purposely used VH1's history against us. We're meant to believe that Torque is dead because hey, he died the first time around. I think his character is too interesting to get rid of this quickly.

[lorddunlow]

Having re-read the issue, I'm pretty sure that Torque is going to come out of this alive. I think Kris appearing to herself at the concert is a classic example of Chekhov's gun. We needed something to clue us in that what we're seeing in the issue is not reality. While it's possible that Torque getting attacked in this dream/mindscape/whatever affects his real-life counterpart, I'm going to guess the damage will not be permanent. If I'm right, then I think Dysart purposely used VH1's history against us. We're meant to believe that Torque is dead because hey, he died the first time around. I think his character is too interesting to get rid of this quickly.

Like I said before, I think he's dead because he is so interesting. Dysart even said in one of his OTV interviews (or maybe it was on here in his thread), that Torque's psychic shell is susceptible to his psyche, and that it was his greatest and only vulnerability. I think he was referencing this very act.

[lorddunlow]

I just read through his entire thread, and I must have combined two of his posts in my head. He didn't give away as much as I remembered. He did reference Torque being taken out permanently - but referencing his pain threshold. He did however say that his shell was totally at the mercy of his mental state. Not the slamdunk case I was hoping for, but I still really think he is dead. I think Kris killed him in the dream, and he (more than anyone else) is affected in reality in the same way.

[jmatt]

I just read through his entire thread, and I must have combined two of his posts in my head. He didn't give away as much as I remembered. He did reference Torque being taken out permanently - but referencing his pain threshold. He did however say that his shell was totally at the mercy of his mental state. Not the slamdunk case I was hoping for, but I still really think he is dead. I think Kris killed him in the dream, and he (more than anyone else) is affected in reality in the same way.

If you want to save some cash, when you buy my Harbinger #1 Gold, you can have them ship it directly to me. I'll PM the address when you're ready.

[lorddunlow]

I just read through his entire thread, and I must have combined two of his posts in my head. He didn't give away as much as I remembered. He did reference Torque being taken out permanently - but referencing his pain threshold. He did however say that his shell was totally at the mercy of his mental state. Not the slamdunk case I was hoping for, but I still really think he is dead. I think Kris killed him in the dream, and he (more than anyone else) is affected in reality in the same way.

If you want to save some cash, when you buy my Harbinger #1 Gold, you can have them ship it directly to me. I'll PM the address when you're ready.

We'll see about that!

[Heath]

If he's NOT dead, and this was just a big trick, I'm going to feel really cheated. If that's the case, this could potentially be a "jump the shark" moment.

[lorddunlow]

If he's NOT dead, and this was just a big trick, I'm going to feel really cheated. If that's the case, this could potentially be a "jump the shark" moment.

+1

[hunter_peterson]

If he's NOT dead, and this was just a big trick, I'm going to feel really cheated. If that's the case, this could potentially be a "jump the shark" moment.

Would you feel the same way if he wasn't dead, but was so emotionally shattered by the experience that he couldn't bring his psychic projection back up and was a crippled, helpless young man who knows nothing about the world outside of his room again? Seeing him struggle and come back from that could potentially be incredible. He'd have to regain confidence in himself, knowing that he has serious emotional problems that could unzip his fantasy at any moment.

Personally, I think him not dying could be great, but also his dying could be great, so it's a wash as far as what I would like to happen. But he's cool and I would for sure like to see more Torque, so who knows?

[bribri]

Not sure why some will be disappointed if Torque is NOT dead. The fact that this book ended in suspense and mystery is well worth it. The debate in this thread demonstrates that is was an excellent choice by Dysart. I have a feeling we're going to be debating this for a few months, until the end of the arc. And that is excellent. Dead or alive, I'm happy to have something to look forward to...the story as it unfolds.

[The Dirt Gang]

Would you feel the same way if he wasn't dead, but was so emotionally shattered by the experience that he couldn't bring his psychic projection back up and was a crippled, helpless young man who knows nothing about the world outside of his room again? Seeing him struggle and come back from that could potentially be incredible. He'd have to regain confidence in himself, knowing that he has serious emotional problems that could unzip his fantasy at any moment.

Something similar crossed my mind and would definitely be an interesting twist.

[Elveen]

Regardless of the next issue.......Dysart is a master.

That is all.

(I'll save my reflections for OTV)

[The Dirt Gang]

Regardless of the next issue.......Dysart is a master of his domain.

That is all.

(I'll save my reflections for OTV)

Corrected!

[The Dirt Gang]

If this is a dream state of some sort, interesting that the only non-psiot seems to be the only one with some self-awareness during it.

[Heath]

If he's NOT dead, and this was just a big trick, I'm going to feel really cheated. If that's the case, this could potentially be a "jump the shark" moment.

Would you feel the same way if he wasn't dead, but was so emotionally shattered by the experience that he couldn't bring his psychic projection back up and was a crippled, helpless young man who knows nothing about the world outside of his room again? Seeing him struggle and come back from that could potentially be incredible. He'd have to regain confidence in himself, knowing that he has serious emotional problems that could unzip his fantasy at any moment.

Personally, I think him not dying could be great, but also his dying could be great, so it's a wash as far as what I would like to happen. But he's cool and I would for sure like to see more Torque, so who knows?

I used the word "potentially" on purpose. I don't *expect* it to be so, whether he's actually dead or not. I have full faith in Dysart because, as has been said, he's a master.

[kjjohanson]

If he's NOT dead, and this was just a big trick, I'm going to feel really cheated. If that's the case, this could potentially be a "jump the shark" moment.

It would be a big trick if there was no indication in the story that there wasn't something funky going on, but as a good storyteller, Dysart gave us that indication.

[Elveen]

I used the word "potentially" on purpose. I don't *expect* it to be so, whether he's actually dead or not. I have full faith in Dysart because, as has been said, he's a master.

I agree Stone Cold.
and with that said..... at this time, I don't think there is any way Harby could jump the shark, regardless of what happens next.

Josh has built up so much equity with me, if Harby #16's 1st page showed the goat dreaming....... and harby #15 was all a dream..... I'd trust Josh to make it awesome.

[Blood of Heroes]

(I'll save my reflections for OTV)

What? Are you too good for the board now? Not everyone listens to your little podcast.

[Zaphod]

(I'll save my reflections for OTV)

What? Are you too good for the board now? Not everyone listens to your dinky, biased little podcast.

fixed
<trollface>

[AnthonyF]

(I'll save my reflections for OTV)

What? Are you too good for the board now? Not everyone listens to your little podcast.

[Elveen]

(I'll save my reflections for OTV)

What? Are you too good for the board now? Not everyone listens to your little podcast.

Our podcast is a grip of things, but "little" is not one of them. In our group Jonsey is the runt, he is not not a personage of smallish stature. He also has the angry white dude bald head with fat goatee, which makes him even look bigger.

[Elveen]

(I'll save my reflections for OTV)

What? Are you too good for the board now? Not everyone listens to your little podcast.

Our podcast is a grip of things, but "little" is not one of them. In our group Jonsey is the runt, he is not not a personage of smallish stature. He also has the angry white dude bald head with fat goatee, which makes him even look bigger.

And then C-lo is the next smallest....... and NO ONE would call the Studsmith small to his face.